So You Have Lived Here A While, Is Thailand Still The Land Of Smiles ?

[Padrino]

What sort of Thai people do you mix with? I know plenty of non rascist, genuinely friendly Thai people. If I come accross fake people then I avoid them the same way I would in my own country. Maybe those who feel treated badly are just giving off the wrong signals, or perhaps because I am younger and clearly not rich I only attract those who genuinely want to be nice. Thais can be ignorant towards foreigners, if that happens I just pull them up on it. Fo example; I held the lift for a guy and he said nothing, so i looked him in the eye and said kop khun khab? And embarrassed him in front of the others in the lift. Act like a child get treated like one - Last night guy I rang the security guard cos the thais upstairs were banging about until 2am, security guard rings their room to tell them to quieten down...they banged louder, I got up and went and banged on the door - the three scrawny students shit themselves and apologised perfusely. You get dickheads everywhere, but I find most Thai people a pleasure to deal with. It is mostly lower class males I get silly comments or rudeness from. I find thai people very lighthearted which is why i like living here - maybe a lot of you guys take life too seriously and thus provoke an adverse response.

cheers

[Screws]

Bangkok and Pattaya are not. But Thailand still is.

As long as one can distinguish between the foreigner/tourist enclaves and genuine Thailand, one can still find broad, friendly, no-strings-attached smiles to brighten every day. I do.

Yes It is.

Agree 100%

8 years in Pattaya - and I get quite a lot of genuine smiles. The 'I'm happy to be alive, aren't you?' kind of smile.

[caf]

I go to one woman who is about 50 and does medicinal massage. I have known her for a while and she is unusually good and kind and honest. The other day, my change was dropping out of my pocket as she massaged me and she seemed really puzzled when I told her to leave it there until we finished. She told me that most farangs are afraid that she will steal it and if she tries to pick it up to give it to them, sometimes they will actually grab it out of her hand.

These people put up with a lot from some of us and can usually smile about it.

I hear what you are saying, but the reality is that nice honest people like this lady are unfortunately tarred with the brush as their dishonest countrymen. She mentioned farangs, as in plural. Therefore, it's not the odd paranoid foreigner. Surely then there is a degree of a people earning this reputation?

No i don't think they have to put up wth a lot from us. You reap what you sow. I am aware i am generalising and i do think it's a shame for people like this lady, but it would be simply ridiculous to think that there isn't a big reason why there is this reaction.

I thought Ken's post ( kenandlat) was a very well written and honest account of personal experiences here. He told it as it is ( for him) but it is also true that the same people that he is referring to are getting "tarred with the same brush" as the more common dishonest Thais ( to which you correctly referred, Carmine). The use of the plural "farangs" in the story of the medicinal massage woman does indeed, as you suggest, show that even she sees the reality that the Thais are creating this difficulty tyhemselves by reputation.

caf

[Ulysses G.]

Another story, we sell the Golden Triangle Maps in my store and the new version of the Mae Hong Son map costs 250 baht. We also have a very old one that is only 70 baht, but we always tell the customers that it is an old edition and both maps have the year they came out printed on them.

Yesterday, a guy who had bought the 70 baht map came storming into the shop screaming about how we had cheated him as things had changed since the map was printed. He would not accept the fact that HE had chosen the old edition because it was so much cheaper and yelled and screamed at the Thai staff about what "liars" and "thieves" they are.

The funny thing is that another customer who had bought the same map and had done the same trip came in later in the day and thanked us for selling her such fine map for only 70 baht.

No wonder the Thais don’t know what to think of us.

[caf]

What sort of Thai people do you mix with? I know plenty of non rascist, genuinely friendly Thai people. If I come accross fake people then I avoid them the same way I would in my own country. Maybe those who feel treated badly are just giving off the wrong signals, or perhaps because I am younger and clearly not rich I only attract those who genuinely want to be nice. Thais can be ignorant towards foreigners, if that happens I just pull them up on it. Fo example; I held the lift for a guy and he said nothing, so i looked him in the eye and said kop khun khab? And embarrassed him in front of the others in the lift. Act like a child get treated like one - Last night guy I rang the security guard cos the thais upstairs were banging about until 2am, security guard rings their room to tell them to quieten down...they banged louder, I got up and went and banged on the door - the three scrawny students shit themselves and apologised perfusely. You get dickheads everywhere, but I find most Thai people a pleasure to deal with. It is mostly lower class males I get silly comments or rudeness from. I find thai people very lighthearted which is why i like living here - maybe a lot of you guys take life too seriously and thus provoke an adverse response.

cheers

And by saying thank-you to him sarcastically you not only made him lose face but showed your own childishness. The other Thais present would have felt a sympathy for him and your actions would have reinforced their views of farangs.

"Act like a child get treated like one" That is how they felt about you.

I don't like some of their attitudes, including usually ignoring you when you hold a door for them, but you need to adapt to some parts of Thai culture. Do not insist they adopt yours.

I find it odd that they often take leave of a group without saying goodnight. Same point; their life style. And is it really a hanging offence. Chill out and enjoy.

caf

[rays]

.....I think some people should just go home!!!! Why on earth are some people here....sexual tourists no doubt. I have been here 3 years now and people really do smile and not for any gain. But the point is I can' t read people's minds and if someone smiles then i take it. I teach in a thai school and kid's I don't teach and never will teach smile and are wonderfully respectful. They are not like this in the UK!!!! I like Thailand and the thai people. I wander out in my village every evening with my wife and son, and the warmth and friendlessness and the smiles from the people is often too much. And these thais are rich, got good jobs and don't want me to teach their kids, they just smile and are friendly. I wish people in the uk were like this.....

[Lammbock]

Yesterday i went to watch the German Soccer Games at German Beer House Soi 11 in Bangkok. I had a couple of Beers and Jaegermeister and get pretty drunk but it was such a nice atmosphere with all my fellow Germans and Soccer ect. around me. I always was be taken care of the same waitress. Nice friendly SMILING Girl. I do not understand a lot of Thai but i do understand enough if somebody says that i am drunk in a bad way and this was exactly what this girl has been saying to her college in front of me at my table. I imminently respond to her "MAI MAU KAP"

She was almost shocked and put her hand to her mouth and looked at me and start to quietly laughing. As she recognized that i wasn't laughing and was pretty angry at her cause how can she talk bad about customers in front of them i never saw her again around me that evening.

I don't get it what is going on sometimes in the heads of the Thais???

Edited March 7, 2010 by Lammbock

[seank]

In short, I just dont feel safe here anymore.

[Loz]

I UNderstand Lambook a bit. Its like today when I got out of my car at the PTT gas stop. THe women made that f((kin irritating exclamation sound when she saw me which does nothing other than say, "f(((k me!! You don't belong round here do you, you strange and scary looking f(((ker!!"

rightly or wrongly I consider this bad manners from someone in the service industry. It is however, FAR from untypical in the land of smiles.

I love living here, but a much higher degree of ignorance is tollerated than at home. It bugs me sometimes. But life is what it is. ANd there life pumping gas is probably karmic reward for being ignorant as a poisonous toad. However at the same gas stop there are three perfectly friendly smiling attendants who I have smiled and joked with for years. I hope this new girl makes like a shepard and gets the flock out of here.

[anotherpeter]

In short, I just dont feel safe here anymore.

Then go home.

[Lammbock]

Yesterday i went to watch the German Soccer Games at German Beer House Soi 11 in Bangkok. I had a couple of Beers and Jaegermeister and get pretty drunk but it was such a nice atmosphere with all my fellow Germans and Soccer ect. around me. I always was be taken care of the same waitress. Nice friendly SMILING Girl. I do not understand a lot of Thai but i do understand enough if somebody says that i am drunk in a bad way and this was exactly what this girl has been saying to her college in front of me at my table. I imminently respond to her "MAI MAU KAP"

She was almost shocked and put her hand to her mouth and looked at me and start to quietly laughing. As she recognized that i wasn't laughing and was pretty angry at her cause how can she talk bad about customers in front of them i never saw her again around me that evening.

I don't get it what is going on sometimes in the heads of the Thais???

That was polite, not to hit you on your thick head.

See, its the country of smiles.

Do you see it?

If you dont get my message, why dont you ask your "beer provider" at home...

Have you considered another place to live? Or to be when you are on a holiday?

Thanks.

Sorry, don't understand what you mean. ??? Could you please be kind enough to explain it more easy to me.

Thanks

Edited March 7, 2010 by Lammbock

[FM505]

Also keep in mind that life is hard (challenging) so much of the time, and we are often consumed in our thoughts while missing 'opportunities' to acknowledge others... not intentionally ignoring or avoiding, just getting though a tough day, et. al.

The world is a wicked place and the scams come at us in all directions. Circle the wagons and cherish those close relationships. Developing new ones takes time...

This is a great forum for the exchange of ideas and information. I appreciate those who contribute thoughtfully.

Peace.

[favre360]

"Is Thailand still the land of smiles?" Does the tin man have a sheet metal cock??

[seank]

In short, I just dont feel safe here anymore.

Then go home.

Wow, that never crossed my mind, thank you so much, you must be living in Thailand for decades to gain such wisdom, you remind me of a local law enforcement officer you insightful rhetoric!!

After two years of living in Bangkok my naïve attitude that I was a farang so would be perfectly safe as I brought money and expertise in the country has disappeared. My contract is up for renewal in two months and then I am going home.

[anotherpeter]

In short, I just dont feel safe here anymore.

Then go home.

Wow, that never crossed my mind, thank you so much, you must be living in Thailand for decades to gain such wisdom, you remind me of a local law enforcement officer you insightful rhetoric!!

After two years of living in Bangkok my naïve attitude that I was a farang so would be perfectly safe as I brought money and expertise in the country has disappeared. My contract is up for renewal in two months and then I am going home.

OK. I'll add a response without the sarcasm.

There is no city in the world that is safe. Some cities you wouldn't step of the plane without getting into an armoured car. Other cities, you would avoid the areas that you know are dangerous.

I have had a gun pulled on me outside the Hard Rock in Bangkok. It was an idiot HiSo that got a bit angry because we got too close to his harley. But I go back there, because it was just an isolated incident. I just make sure I'm a bit more careful leaving establishments where there are harleys.

I also avoid dark alleys and back streets, as I would in any city.

[jdinasia]

Yesterday i went to watch the German Soccer Games at German Beer House Soi 11 in Bangkok. I had a couple of Beers and Jaegermeister and get pretty drunk but it was such a nice atmosphere with all my fellow Germans and Soccer ect. around me. I always was be taken care of the same waitress. Nice friendly SMILING Girl. I do not understand a lot of Thai but i do understand enough if somebody says that i am drunk in a bad way and this was exactly what this girl has been saying to her college in front of me at my table. I imminently respond to her "MAI MAU KAP"

She was almost shocked and put her hand to her mouth and looked at me and start to quietly laughing. As she recognized that i wasn't laughing and was pretty angry at her cause how can she talk bad about customers in front of them i never saw her again around me that evening.

I don't get it what is going on sometimes in the heads of the Thais???

You "get pretty drunk".

The waitress points out you are pretty drunk.

You get upset.

Ummmm drunk is not a big issue in a bar in Thailand ---- until you become a _____ by yelling at a waitress. Yes, you made a tit of yourself. The nice thing is the next time you go there, you will find that you have been forgiven for it because Thailand is still the LOS even when you don't deserve it.

[lazygourmet]

Yesterday i went to watch the German Soccer Games at German Beer House Soi 11 in Bangkok. I had a couple of Beers and Jaegermeister and get pretty drunk but it was such a nice atmosphere with all my fellow Germans and Soccer ect. around me. I always was be taken care of the same waitress. Nice friendly SMILING Girl. I do not understand a lot of Thai but i do understand enough if somebody says that i am drunk in a bad way and this was exactly what this girl has been saying to her college in front of me at my table. I imminently respond to her "MAI MAU KAP"

She was almost shocked and put her hand to her mouth and looked at me and start to quietly laughing. As she recognized that i wasn't laughing and was pretty angry at her cause how can she talk bad about customers in front of them i never saw her again around me that evening.

I don't get it what is going on sometimes in the heads of the Thais???

You "get pretty drunk".

The waitress points out you are pretty drunk.

You get upset.

Ummmm drunk is not a big issue in a bar in Thailand ---- until you become a _____ by yelling at a waitress. Yes, you made a tit of yourself. The nice thing is the next time you go there, you will find that you have been forgiven for it because Thailand is still the LOS even when you don't deserve it.

Jagermeister is lethal!

[Lammbock]

1. I have no Problem if somebody point at me and say "He is Drunk" if its in a funny way.

2. She did it in a not polite way. She don't have the rights to thread a customer like that.

3. She did it when i was not that much drunk in the first 2 hours.

4. I dind't yell at her at all. I would never do something like that.

I want to ask you if she didn't do anything wrong, why she didn't continues serving my drinks? Why she didn't come and collect the 100 Baht tip i had provided for her????

I ask you, why? why? why?

Because she has lost her Face! Thats Why! And don't try to tell something else.

Edited March 8, 2010 by Lammbock

[jdinasia]

1. I have no Problem if somebody point at me and say "He is Drunk" if its in a funny way.

2. She did it in a not polite way. She don't have the rights to thread a customer like that.

3. She did in when i was not that much drunk in the first 2 hours.

4. I dint yall at her at all.

I want to ask you if she didn't do anything wrong, why she didn't continues serving my drinks? Why she didn't come and collect the 100 Baht tip i had provided for her????

I ask you, why? why? why?

Because she has lost her Face! Thats Why! And don't try to tell something else.

Maybe you are right.

Then again maybe she didn't come back because she thought you were too drunk already and getting aggressive and it wasn't worth the 100 baht tip? If your waitress was rude it seems very strange that you would tip in the first place!

[starkey_rich]

Bangkok and Pattaya are not. But Thailand still is.

As long as one can distinguish between the foreigner/tourist enclaves and genuine Thailand, one can still find broad, friendly, no-strings-attached smiles to brighten every day. I do.

Never been to Samui then

Obviously never been to Phuket either

[jdinasia]

Bangkok and Pattaya are not. But Thailand still is.

As long as one can distinguish between the foreigner/tourist enclaves and genuine Thailand, one can still find broad, friendly, no-strings-attached smiles to brighten every day. I do.

Never been to Samui then

Obviously never been to Phuket either

I have lived in Phuket (Kamala Beach) and Bangkok (Prawet) and Hua Hin and no Chiang Mai. They are all still "Thailand" and all still the LOS imho :-)

[StreetCowboy]

1. I have no Problem if somebody point at me and say "He is Drunk" if its in a funny way.

2. She did it in a not polite way. She don't have the rights to thread a customer like that.

3. She did it when i was not that much drunk in the first 2 hours.

4. I dind't yell at her at all. I would never do something like that.

I want to ask you if she didn't do anything wrong, why she didn't continues serving my drinks? Why she didn't come and collect the 100 Baht tip i had provided for her????

I ask you, why? why? why?

Because she has lost her Face! Thats Why! And don't try to tell something else.

"...why? why? why?" DELILAH!

I think the most likely reason was because you were acting like an obnoxious, ignorant drunken <deleted>.

Appearances can be deceptive, but sadly in Thailand we are judged by our appearances.

I think the most likely reason was because you were acting like an obnoxious, ignorant drunken <deleted>.

Appearances can be deceptive, but sadly in Thailand we are judged by our appearances.

I think the most likely reason was because you were acting like an obnoxious, ignorant drunken <deleted>.

Appearances can be deceptive, but sadly in Thailand we are judged by our appearances.

As the Bellman said, I have said it thrice: What I tell you three times is true."

Not sure why you asked the question three times, though.

SC

[Lammbock]

[sarcasm on]Yea Yea StreetCowboy...

The Falangs always the Bad Guys and the Thais Always the Good ones, isn't it Cowboy?[/sarcasm off]

[StreetCowboy]

[sarcasm on]Yea Yea StreetCowboy...

The Falangs always the Bad Guys and the Thais Always the Good ones, isn't it Cowboy?[/sarcasm off]

We could stereotype more specifically, if we wanted to...

But no, my comment was meant personally. If you want people to understand you as you really are, you have to act that way, otherwise they will think that you are an obnoxious drunken <deleted> qwhen you behave like one. A simple misunderstanding, but one that Thais often make because they are so ready to judge people superficially, by their immediate appearance and current actions.

Had the waitress known that you were a generous sort who might leave a 100 baht tip, I'm sure she would have maintained her facade of poilite indulgence and smiled a little bit longer.

As it is, you came out 100 baht better off, so now hwo has the last laugh?

He who laughs last, laughs loudest...

Again, due to the pearls of strong drink

SC

[mark51mark]

The thai people they meet in the hotels and resturants ... are paid to smile

...That comment is right on target.

"Carmine" explained above, that it happens when a financial transaction is taking place.

I would expand that to say, smiles happens when value is moving to them -- financial, food, gifts, learning a few English words, a new house, etc.

Anything to their benefit, they will smile.

...And, we should keep in mind, they are trained to smile and they practice how to do it.

A recent girl friend worked in a 5-star hotel where the training program included how to greet customers.

She demonstrated for me what she learned in the training.

It was like a bright light suddenly turning on: the smile, the body language, the soft and sexy voice, full attention focused on the customer.

Then, when she finished demonstrating what she'd learned that day, the light switched off.

The performance suddenly stopped.

The face went blank, the body language slumped, and attention evaporated.

The change was dramatic and stunning.

The smiles are a well-practiced "act".

...Another way to observe this is to watch Thais with other Thais when no farangs are around.

Recently I found myself at Morchit bus station with a few hours to wait.

I found a quiet place almost hidden behind a pillar, and just settled in.

It was the perfect location to watch Thais with each other, when the others are strangers, not friends or family.

There are no smiles.

The faces are universally bland; no expression.

They show none of the excitement or focus we farangs experience in hotels, restaurants, shops.

With each other, Thais are in neutral.

What i dont get is people who have lived here a couple of years keep calling it the land of smiles. ... So why do people who have lived here a long time just fail to see what the real thailand is like.

...Many -- perhaps most -- long-stay farangs here are either (1) not "awake" or (2) drunk most of the time.

Most don't understand any of the language beyond a few words for food and beer.

They simply aren't aware of what's really happening around them.

But they do get the smiles ... because ... they have money to spend.

...On the other hand, something different happens often to me and probably to you:

Whenever I go into a shop or restaurant where I've never been before, the smiles flick on, the body language focuses on me -- just like they are trained to do.

If I speak English, the performance continues.

But if I speak Thai -- and my Thai is fairly good -- the smiles turn off, the body language turns away, the performance comes to a screeching halt.

They immediately realize they have little to gain from a farang who "knows too much".

...So, it this the Land of Smiles or not?

After 5+ years, I still enjoy the performance, but I understand it's purpose.

But, what is more important, I find the fundamental gentleness and kindness of most Thai people to be far more desirable than the sullen, self-interest which now pervades our Western home countries.

I have no complaints.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

Some good points.

I would add though that I join in the game with the fake smiles now if I am speaking in Thai. When in Rome.......

My partner says I should not be two faced and smile when I don't mean it but I explain it is only a Thai smile. She appreciates the difference but still thinks I should behave more like a farang.

I just won't let the bastards grind me down. And I'm certainly not dropping any civilised standards to accommodate them. And I have no problems living in Thailand with that mind set. I actually like the place and most of its ordinary ( down to earth) people. But yes I play games with the so-called hi-sos and those who feel they are something special in the hierarchy.

caf

[Ulysses G.]

I speak fairly good Thai and unlike Oneman my Thai people don't change their 'performance' because of that. I guess if people like you they'll smile at you.

A lot of us seem to think that Thailand really is the land of smiles. Maybe we are doing something right?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

1. I have no Problem if somebody point at me and say "He is Drunk" if its in a funny way.

2. She did it in a not polite way. She don't have the rights to thread a customer like that.

3. She did it when i was not that much drunk in the first 2 hours.

4. I dind't yell at her at all. I would never do something like that.

I want to ask you if she didn't do anything wrong, why she didn't continues serving my drinks? Why she didn't come and collect the 100 Baht tip i had provided for her????

I ask you, why? why? why?

Because she has lost her Face! Thats Why! And don't try to tell something else.

To be honest, when you get visibly angry at someone like a waitress over something trivial, then you're losing quite a bit of face yourself. Again though, we weren't there so can't judge the situation very well. My initial impression was too that it's not really that bad to say that someone is getting on a bit in the alcohol department. And I'm assuming that you understood her correctly.

Thinking about myself I can't remember the last time I got angry at a waitress while drinking.. Not all are angels but I'm out to have fun and getting upset at someone, especially someone fairly insignificant like a waitress, is un-fun, un-cool and unnecessarily lowers my face & standing with any other staff. If ever a waitress is truly impolite then other staff will most definitely recognize that as well, so you can make a mention of it to others in a good spirited way. If it was truly something unacceptable then I'd leave as well, so then the waitress has to deal with the issue that her unacceptable behavior caused the departure of a customer. (To be honest, I CAN remember leaving a bar due to the unacceptable behavior of a customer, that happens a lot more often.)

Overall though, to take the effort to get angry at someone also implies that this person is important/worthy enough to get angry at. That's just not the case with someone like a waitress, or any general riff-raff you might encounter around Sukhumvit Soi 11, which very much includes foreign tourists/residents as well. Raising an eyebrow and a wry smile is about as much effort as I'm willing to put in. Let me hasten to add though, it's of course different if it's a person (waitress or otherwise) that I actually know and like. It's not the profession (waitress or otherwise) that makes someone insignificant. If someone who I like as a person (any profession or relationship) does something impolite or otherwise improper then it may very well be worth investing some words to address her behavior, BECAUSE you care. I'm pushing 40 myself so I can strike that fatherly vibe of stern disappointment at someone's behavior quite well now. Such a measured, polite but stern response may actually gain you some face and respect. (Now people are going to reply why anyone would bother wanting to gain respect, just wait for it.. )

Edited March 9, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[jdinasia]

I speak fairly good Thai and unlike Oneman my Thai people don't change their 'performance' because of that. I guess if people like you they'll smile at you.

A lot of us seem to think that Thailand really is the land of smiles. Maybe we are doing something right?

well it is either that we know enough to "get it" .... or we are brain dead from smiling too much

The thing really does boil down to what kind of person you were BEFORE Thailand I think.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The thing really does boil down to what kind of person you were BEFORE Thailand I think.

Agreed. Though I also get the feeling that Thailand sends some who are pre-disposed off the deep end. Largely because they CAN get away with so much crap here.

[StreetCowboy]

I smile a lot when I'm in Thailand, unless I've had far too much to drink.

I also smile when I go home, but I never really think of Scotland as the land of smiles.

I've never had a pretty girl smile at me, though, anywhere, except when I'm not grumpy and bad-tempered. - Sorry - that's probably not true, its probably happened loads of time, in Thailand, but I've never noticed. If I'd noticed, I'd not be grumpy and bad-tempered.

SC