Is Sex Without Love Wrong?

[eek]

eek is 100% spot on.

Taking a date & paying for dinner & theater is NOT paying for sex, at the end of the night one or both can refuse. That is the chance taken.

Paying a women or man to have sex with you is a totally different kettle of fish. You are procuring the service they offer, they "could" refuse you I suppose depending on their financial situation at the time or the rules of the bar but to imply that this is a case of 2 consenting adults enjoying each other then you are wrong, there are far too many variables & you are buying their body for that time.

I can be single go out ask a single guy if he wants a shag & do it, that is 2 consenting adults enjoying sex without love. Going up to a sex worker & asking for sex involves agree to an amount, getting a shag & paying them for it. Not really a question of the act not happening in that scenario.

You really can't see the difference?

So is coughing up a monthly "subscription fee" to your lady or paying exorbitant sin sod the same as sex for money? Would you call these women "sex workers"? A fine line, if you ask me.

How is it possibIy a fine Iine? PresumabIy the partner was met under "usuaI/normaI" circumstances..meaning, they chose to be together. How can sharing finances, or giving housekeeping money be anything even sIightIy akin to paying a prostitute for sex????

[IanForbes]

Hmmm is the question actually "Is prostitution or paying for sex wrong?" or is it "is sex without love wrong?"

Those two questions are not the same. The question is bound up with what actually constitutes consent. If both (or more) participants are there not to survive but because they want to have fun, then hey! Have fun! However, if one of the participants is there to survive then it seems there is a form of economic coersion going on. imho.... of course

I have to say that being an adult gay man certainly does give me an advantage in Thailand and everywhere else where homosexuality is not condemned. Men like sex

This is aIong the Iines of what i was thinking too. I dont think many have any kind of issue about casuaI sex between two consenting aduIts. Its no-ones business but theirs (weII..of course Iines get bIurred if one of those peopIe are married etc, so i guess you couId say as Iong as no-one gets hurt, or its not harming anyone. But reaIIy depends on each circumstance). When it comes to paying for sex, then you have to think about the reasons the person is seIIing their body. If they had any reaI choice or say, wouId they have sex with the person who is paying them..weII quite probabIy not. Circumstances cause them to have no reaI choice. SeIIing their bodies because its their best commodity and they can make more money. Sure, a person couId choose to earn some crap money cIeaning toiIets etc, but then, what future can they give their kids/famiIy/etc? If there was a reaI comparative option/choice i am sure many wouId not into prostitution. You can argue that the girIs/boys are greedy and they want easy money..but in aII honest there is reaIIy nothing easy about having to Iet severaI strangers do what they want to your body. In aII honesty guys, if some man offered you x amount of cash (a few thousand baht) to invade your body, wouId you Iet him? Im guessing not. Why? Because you are in a position where you are not desperate and can reaIisticaIIy say no.

Of course this wont go down weII..and as we are discussing that which shouId not be discussed..wiII IikeIy get cIosed soon anyway..so nvm.

A good, balanced reply... as per usual, eek. I agree.

There are so many shades of grey to this universal topic... from almost white to almost black.

Hey, and some funny replies as well.

I see so many marriages that seem to be for convenience sake only, that I begin to wonder about the motive. I also know some almost sexless marriages where the couples seem to love each other. However, I know many hypocrites that say one thing but do another.

In Thailand there seems to be an out of sight out of mind attitude where everything is okay so long as it is done somewhere else. Women who work the bar trade always do it in places not close to home. Girls from Issan go to Pattaya, Phuket or Bangkok. But, there are lots of working girls in Issan, but they come from somewhere else. The ones from Chiang Mai do the same. But, you seldom hear of a working girl doing their trade in their family's town. Obviously, there is some stigma involved. The family just ignores the obvious fact of where the money is coming from.

And, despite popular belief from the nay-sayers, there are lots of Thai working girls who actually enjoy their occupation. It is the same in North America where there is an active trade in so called "escort" services. Those gals don't want to leave the trade because it is economically feasible. For them it beats working in a factory or the 7-11. And, there ARE opportunities for them to earn a good living in a career. They just choose not to do so.

I frankly don't see a lot of difference between a woman who chooses to marry a man she doesn't love because he is a doctor, lawyer or rich business man, and some gal who sells her body for cash or advancement in her career.

[AndyBlueEyes]

Sex and Love are very different since sex helps relieve stress whereas love causes it. To each his own so I cannot fault anyone that tries to avoid stress.

[rodentwarrior]

I say that being an adult gay man certainly does give me an advantage in Thailand and everywhere else where homosexuality is not condemned. Men like sex

I think it's more likely that men don't use sex as a bargaining chip like a lot of women do. Sex is great - the only problem is organised religion.

Keep God out of the bedroom.

[a2396]

eek is 100% spot on.

Taking a date & paying for dinner & theater is NOT paying for sex, at the end of the night one or both can refuse. That is the chance taken.

Paying a women or man to have sex with you is a totally different kettle of fish. You are procuring the service they offer, they "could" refuse you I suppose depending on their financial situation at the time or the rules of the bar but to imply that this is a case of 2 consenting adults enjoying each other then you are wrong, there are far too many variables & you are buying their body for that time.

I can be single go out ask a single guy if he wants a shag & do it, that is 2 consenting adults enjoying sex without love. Going up to a sex worker & asking for sex involves agree to an amount, getting a shag & paying them for it. Not really a question of the act not happening in that scenario.

You really can't see the difference?

So is coughing up a monthly "subscription fee" to your lady or paying exorbitant sin sod the same as sex for money? Would you call these women "sex workers"? A fine line, if you ask me.

How is it possibIy a fine Iine? PresumabIy the partner was met under "usuaI/normaI" circumstances..meaning, they chose to be together. How can sharing finances, or giving housekeeping money be anything even sIightIy akin to paying a prostitute for sex????

Sharing household expenses is not the same as a monthly "stipend", which many women demand. That money is generally for their own personal use. The Farang pays 100% of household expenses, food, etc.

[t.s]

Sex is good

Heroin is good too, should we all take some?

get over yourself. nothing worse than an ex junkie.

[Beardog]

Sex is great in any capacity. You don't have to be in love(just temporary lust) It takes care of basic needs. Sex with love is great to . It gives the sex more meaning. Unfortunately you get more sex when you are in the lust phase, but not the intimate relationship. Which sometimes one could care less about.

[a2396]

eek is 100% spot on.

Taking a date & paying for dinner & theater is NOT paying for sex, at the end of the night one or both can refuse. That is the chance taken.

Paying a women or man to have sex with you is a totally different kettle of fish. You are procuring the service they offer, they "could" refuse you I suppose depending on their financial situation at the time or the rules of the bar but to imply that this is a case of 2 consenting adults enjoying each other then you are wrong, there are far too many variables & you are buying their body for that time.

I can be single go out ask a single guy if he wants a shag & do it, that is 2 consenting adults enjoying sex without love. Going up to a sex worker & asking for sex involves agree to an amount, getting a shag & paying them for it. Not really a question of the act not happening in that scenario.

You really can't see the difference?

So is coughing up a monthly "subscription fee" to your lady or paying exorbitant sin sod the same as sex for money? Would you call these women "sex workers"? A fine line, if you ask me.

Quick question..."Do Thai men pay salaries?"

Actually yes, in some cases. One of my Thai lady acquaintances, who is familiar with the Cultural landscape here, says, if the man is over 35 he pays. Of course, that was her "rules of the road". She is 26 and has several friends who are mia nois to Thai men. She said she would not get involved with any man who did not pay. Of course, Thai to Thai, who are of similar age and young, are the same as back home. Love is the driving factor, not money.

[gotlost]

Like my pappy told me, son if you have an itch, scratch it.

[GreenSnapper]

Love is what men feel when they see a pretty woman.

Love is what women feel when they see a wealthy man.

These are the rules since mankind exists. Actually earlier, as even female monkeys use sex to gain some advantage from male monkeys.

In the modern western world, over 90% of women marry a man of higher status. They call it "love" and a few years later many depart with his assets.

So in this context, what is wrong with having sex with a Soi Cowboy girl? Modern western ideology interpretes this as "she is forced to do it". Nonsense. Nobody forces her, as nobody forced the female monkey millions of years go. She just does what almost all women do: she goes with a man of higher status.

So forget the bitter zealots here: treat your girl well, give her a good time and she will give you a good time. Let the bitter people despise you - you won't care.

[elcent]

[a2396]

Love is what men feel when they see a pretty woman.

Love is what women feel when they see a wealthy man.

These are the rules since mankind exists. Actually earlier, as even female monkeys use sex to gain some advantage from male monkeys.

In the modern western world, over 90% of women marry a man of higher status. They call it "love" and a few years later many depart with his assets.

So in this context, what is wrong with having sex with a Soi Cowboy girl? Modern western ideology interpretes this as "she is forced to do it". Nonsense. Nobody forces her, as nobody forced the female monkey millions of years go. She just does what almost all women do: she goes with a man of higher status.

So forget the bitter zealots here: treat your girl well, give her a good time and she will give you a good time. Let the bitter people despise you - you won't care.

Pay her well and she will treat you well? Maybe. Ain't necessarily so in all cases.

[elcent]

How many of you desk jockeys are like this guy?

:D

[jdinasia]

Love is what men feel when they see a pretty woman.

Love is what women feel when they see a wealthy man.

These are the rules since mankind exists. Actually earlier, as even female monkeys use sex to gain some advantage from male monkeys.

In the modern western world, over 90% of women marry a man of higher status. They call it "love" and a few years later many depart with his assets.

So in this context, what is wrong with having sex with a Soi Cowboy girl? Modern western ideology interpretes this as "she is forced to do it". Nonsense. Nobody forces her, as nobody forced the female monkey millions of years go. She just does what almost all women do: she goes with a man of higher status.

So forget the bitter zealots here: treat your girl well, give her a good time and she will give you a good time. Let the bitter people despise you - you won't care.

Hmmmm I wonder where this statement of factt comes from .... My guess would be the poster's imagination.

It does show, perhaps, why he thinks that all women are after money though. Bad experiences in the past?

As for his claim that ""Nobody forces her"" --- That may be true in some cases but in other cases dire circumstances may indeed force that choice on her. (or him in the case of male prostitutes).

This poster's bias against women certainly does not explain male prostitution in any way though.

[eek]

Love is what men feel when they see a pretty woman.

Love is what women feel when they see a wealthy man.

These are the rules since mankind exists. Actually earlier, as even female monkeys use sex to gain some advantage from male monkeys.

In the modern western world, over 90% of women marry a man of higher status. They call it "love" and a few years later many depart with his assets.

So in this context, what is wrong with having sex with a Soi Cowboy girl? Modern western ideology interpretes this as "she is forced to do it". Nonsense. Nobody forces her, as nobody forced the female monkey millions of years go. She just does what almost all women do: she goes with a man of higher status.

So forget the bitter zealots here: treat your girl well, give her a good time and she will give you a good time. Let the bitter people despise you - you won't care.

Hmmmm I wonder where this statement of factt comes from .... My guess would be the poster's imagination.

It does show, perhaps, why he thinks that all women are after money though. Bad experiences in the past?

As for his claim that ""Nobody forces her"" --- That may be true in some cases but in other cases dire circumstances may indeed force that choice on her. (or him in the case of male prostitutes).

This poster's bias against women certainly does not explain male prostitution in any way though.

Seems that i and my femaIe friends were aII made from a different moId then, because i have never feIt Iove from money...and I have had severaI very weaIthy men who were interested in me. Even got propositioned in a fIight from a weathIy Iondon based Arab man. I suspect however, that as pointed out, its Greensnappers views that are fIawed rather than his take on women.

How many of you desk jockeys are like this guy?

:D

ME!

[Neeranam]

Sex is good

Heroin is good too, should we all take some?

get over yourself. nothing worse than an ex junkie.

Please explain. I know lots of ex junkies and they are very good human beings.

[somtampet]

Of course it is wrong. Of course the sex-addicts will say otherwise to justify their activities

People try to impose their beliefs every minute on here,so dont worry and go with the flow.Whats right for me maybe not right for somebody else,but does it mean i am a better or worse man than you.

[somtampet]

Sex is good

Heroin is good too, should we all take some?

get over yourself. nothing worse than an ex junkie.

Please explain. I know lots of ex junkies and they are very good human beings.

U must live in some amazing places,as i dont know any ex or current junkies.

[SeanMoran]

People try to impose their beliefs every minute on here,so dont worry and go with the flow.Whats right for me maybe not right for somebody else,but does it mean i am a better or worse man than you.

All well and good, but it gets harder and harder everyday and I don't know what to DO about it - everywhere I go, at the restaurants, at the 711, even in my own hotel rooms, all these women begging me to let them come and spend the night with me, time and time again, (because I'm so darned good looking), but it's all I can do to try to explain to them that while I might LOOK like a movie star, I'm actually a poverty-stricken invalid pensioner with a beer-belly (they do say that love is blind but it gets monotonous having to point that out every time) and ergo too weak for missionary antics, so all I can do is turn their sweet loving away, day after day, night after night.

Oh how it's torture to be such a darned handsum man as I.

[somtampet]

People try to impose their beliefs every minute on here,so dont worry and go with the flow.Whats right for me maybe not right for somebody else,but does it mean i am a better or worse man than you.

All well and good, but it gets harder and harder everyday and I don't know what to DO about it - everywhere I go, at the restaurants, at the 711, even in my own hotel rooms, all these women begging me to let them come and spend the night with me, time and time again, (because I'm so darned good looking), but it's all I can do to try to explain to them that while I might LOOK like a movie star, I'm actually a poverty-stricken invalid pensioner with a beer-belly (they do say that love is blind but it gets monotonous having to point that out every time) and ergo too weak for missionary antics, so all I can do is turn their sweet loving away, day after day, night after night.

Oh how it's torture to be such a darned handsum man as I.

I dont realy have that problem as i am only pretty good looking but extremely wealthy and have to take ladies to a cheap hotel because i dont want them to see my huge house,as i wouldnt be able to get rid of them.

[quiksilva]

If two adults choose to have sex with each other, without love (for any reason), that's their decision and theirs alone.

Who are we to judge what is right or wrong?

Edited March 5, 2010 by quiksilva

[CHdiver]

eek is 100% spot on.

Taking a date & paying for dinner & theater is NOT paying for sex, at the end of the night one or both can refuse. That is the chance taken.

Paying a women or man to have sex with you is a totally different kettle of fish. You are procuring the service they offer, they "could" refuse you I suppose depending on their financial situation at the time or the rules of the bar but to imply that this is a case of 2 consenting adults enjoying each other then you are wrong, there are far too many variables & you are buying their body for that time.

I can be single go out ask a single guy if he wants a shag & do it, that is 2 consenting adults enjoying sex without love. Going up to a sex worker & asking for sex involves agree to an amount, getting a shag & paying them for it. Not really a question of the act not happening in that scenario.

You really can't see the difference?

I can see a difference. In one scenario I get possibly screwed, in the other I will get laid.

[Boo]

and there in lies () my point. Removing the free choice by paying someone to have sex with you therefore means that person isn't a free & willing participant.

Who has ever said to a bg, ok I pay you but you don't have to have sex with me if YOU don't want & really meant it. I would be interested in their choice.?

[hyperion]

Paying for sex is wrong... when you realize how easy it is to get without having to pay a cent.

Sex without love is fine. I love sex... I hate being in a relationship where I am tied to just one girl though. Too much drama. As long as the girl I'm with loves sex, too, has a good time, and doesn't need to be in a deep relationship with me, and its all consentual... we're all good to go.

If the girl even starts talking to me about how she'd like me to start seriously dating her, unless she's Peak Pattarasaya or TangMo pattraratida I ditch them there and then.

Too busy to get tied up in the chores a true relationship that's more than friendly requires. Gotta make money, stack that paper, and pay dem bills!

[jdinasia]

I say that being an adult gay man certainly does give me an advantage in Thailand and everywhere else where homosexuality is not condemned. Men like sex

I think it's more likely that men don't use sex as a bargaining chip like a lot of women do. Sex is great - the only problem is organised religion.

Keep God out of the bedroom.

Nah .. men do that too.

My point is best shown by analogy.

An attractive man walks down the street and an attractive woman walks past him. Eye contact is briefly made. The man will likely look over his shoulder at the stranger while the woman will most likely not.

Change the scenario --- 2 attarctive gay men pass each other. Make eye contact briefly. BOTH will turn

Life is good

[elcent]

The sisters of Mercy, not to call them prostitutes, as one part of the relationship thingy most beautiful expressed by this clip. And they do it not because of themselves but because of you and your shortcomings and inabilities.

[Boo]

actually I have better scenario. Go to a bar, agree the price with the woman or man of your choice, when you get back to yours just before you are about to do the deed, tell them that as they came with you must find you so attractive that they wont be needing payment & see what happens. I vote Ian gives it a go & reports back

[Ulysses G.]

and there in lies ( ) my point. Removing the free choice by paying someone to have sex with you therefore means that person isn't a free & willing participant.

Come on. Most attractive prostitutes have so many customers that they can pick and choose clients as much as they like. They can easily say no if they don't want to participate.

When it comes to Westerners, some people are in relationships because of money and they would not be there without it. What is that but prostitution?

Edited March 5, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Boo]

men & women get what they both want out of a relationship no? I have no problem with wealthy older woman getting a good looking younger man. She has him for his youth & the kudos she might get & he for her money. Nothing wrong with it imo unless one of both of them start trying to pontificate that he would be with her if she were poor or he were a 250lb acne covered nerd.

[manjara]

and there in lies () my point. Removing the free choice by paying someone to have sex with you therefore means that person isn't a free & willing participant.

Who has ever said to a bg, ok I pay you but you don't have to have sex with me if YOU don't want & really meant it. I would be interested in their choice.?

I have paid the bar fine for someone then just given them 1000 or 2000 baht and put them in a taxi (obviously after going out somewhere first). They were confused, but subsequently seemed to think they owed me 'one'. Perhaps it's just a matter of 'customer service', but as I made it perfectly plain there was no debt, inferred or otherwise, I think it shows they do have a certain amount of freewill.

My research has now ended due to contractual commitments (marriage), so I am unable to answer further questions!