How Much?

[gburns57au]

Some very good points here.....

Keep low side.....give her what she needs...not what she wants...work that out with her.

If you give her too much....she wont respect you but see you as an unending supply

If you dont give her enough...she will think you are a cheap charlie and wont respect you either

What is comfortable for you is the most important.....it is not good if you send her X amount and then have no quality of life for yourself, that will only breed resentment on your part. If what you offer is not enough, and as she earns 8k, it should not be much over that, Then you are on a hiding to nowhere.

Just my own HO

[mbkudu]

Lotus Tesco pay 6000 pcm for a 12 hour shift 6 day a week job.

That is considered  good pay for unskilled labour.

I think your 8-10k is spot on.  Good Luck.

Of course it is; then she won't have to work at Tesco or anywhere else for that matter. I wonder what she might say if you asked her to try to get a job?

Sorry, my mistake. I didn't see the post where the op said she works and makes 8,000 already. If that is the case, then why send anything except for emergencies?

Edited May 18, 2005 by mbkudu

[The Phoenix]

I wonder what she might say if you asked her to try to get a job?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No.

[Thomas_Merton]

Did you ever try this negotiating technique with somebody, Thomas?

By the way, not sure he can keep the 15k in his head.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not old enough to handle money yet

[meadish_sweetball]

Do you want to give her money or not? Ask yourself honestly. If yes, why?

Get these things straightened out in your head, and then follow the advice to give her a reasonable sum of money.

I hate to say it, but too much money (and focusing on money and gifts) will erode your relationship and turn it into a business. You need to strike a balance.

It is also easy to get used to having more money than usual, but often very hard to adjust to a lower income. In the worst case scenario, your money may make your girlfriend 1.) lazy 2.) feel inferior, wanting to get back at you for being superior, and this revenge can come in many flavours (this sounds very warped but I have seen it happen).

Of course, if she has a strong character and has genuine feelings for you, the above does not apply. It really depends on the situation.

The short version: Follow your heart, but dont think with your genitals.

Edited May 18, 2005 by meadish_sweetball

[The Phoenix]

The short version: Follow your heart, but dont think with your genitals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too late...

[Wanderer]

Has anyone tried to get work done in their house lately by tradesmen, last year a couple of 'electricians' came around to price some extra sockets for a fitted kitchen, called around, looked at the job and declared 5000 baht which i could have completed in 2 hours tops if i had tools, anyway i cleared them

Point is thailand is not as backward as used to be, here in Pataya, tradesmen like tilers, sparkies, plasters etc can charge pretty good as as it's so hard to get someone.

I think 10 g a month is reasanble, after all you don't want to compared to the average working class thai or else she would go for that

[otherstuff1957]

Average income? Check out this link:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbo...os/th.html#Econ

I know the source is a bit dubious , but their info is usually ok. It's just that the people who use their data tend to be highly selective about what they choose to believe.

[The Phoenix]

It's just that the people who use their data tend to be highly selective about what they choose to believe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perfect. The one starting this thread and asking for answers is also highly selective about what he choose to believe.

I think...

[easyb]

Somewhere up the thread the issue of work came up – which I’m surprise how little it does in relation to sending money. I guess this is where my values come in but I think people should work for what they get and it’s good to help people who help themselves. My case is a typical meet the bg and want to help knowing (at least in retrospect) all the pitfalls. For me, from the get go, it didn’t make sense to just send money. If the person was sincere about wanting a better and different life how did this help? If I just send money to an able bodied person, enough to live on, what are they going to do all day? Watch TV? Think maybe it would be good to have two guys sending money? Even if it’s not much money for me why should I be working my butt off so someone can stay at home and do nothing? For me this just didn’t make sense. My solution was to find an organization and fund an internship for a period of time. The deal was they would provide a job and training where the person would learn new skills. I would pay for the cost (wage, insurance, tax, etc.). The person would work in the job at the discretion of the manager. If she didn’t do a good job, didn’t show up then she should be fired and the organization could keep the money I’d paid. I wasn’t going to interfere. A year later my gf now has learned valuable skills, has a lot more confidence and has been given the job on a permanent basis without more money from me. She earned it. Maybe this cost me a little more but I think the mutual value was huge. (it didn’t cost so much really because the organization was an international NGO so from a US perspective my donations were tax-deductible and employer matched). My gf got some great training and experience, this organization that does really good work was able to do more for other people and I got in essence a 3rd party reference check; that she was responsible, trustworthy, got along with people, was given more responsibility and that she is a very, very hard and dedicate worker. It was a win-win-win.

IMHO giving money to able bodied people reinforces a kind of dependence. Now I have a gf with a good job, a good future and money in the bank. Am I happy to help her more or treat her to something nice now and again? Sure why not. But for our singular case this really helped and grounded our relationship in a solid, mutually respectful way.

Lastly I don’t at mind the idea of sending money to the parents. That is the Thai way, that is the cultural and social system and within that it’s the right thing to do. Nor do I mind the idea of supporting a wife with kids or taking care of the home if it comes to that. But sending money 8000 miles so someone can just do nothing and not improve their ability to do something productive with their life? Not for me.

[sriracha john]

With all due respect to the CIA and other suppositions, let's not get too far off from the reality of daily life for the average Thai in this country.

The following data from Thailand's own Statistics Office:

average per person monthly income, country-wide, is: 3,380 baht

That ranges from a high for BKK : 7,716

to a low for the NE region: 2,014

[expatinasia]

I've only been here a year, and I don't understand the necessity of sending money to people who don't work, especially trying to match the amount of money for someone who is gainfully employed. Rather than saving "face", there's another part of the anatomy that you should be worried about.

[falangaman]

Hi

Interesting comments from all, the reason behind my enquiry by the way is not so that she can stop having to work in Thailand, heaven forbid.

No, all going well my fiancee will be coming to stay with me in UK later in the year and so Im just trying to prepare myself for having to contribute whilst she is here and cannot work.

There lies the difference. Once she can work here in UK then its going to be alot easier - I hope!!

[Kringle]

If she's your girlfriend and not your wife and she has her own job and was functioning with OUT someone else giving her money, then why are you going to send her money? (I will elaborate more later) Did she ask you to send any money at all or did you volunteer to send money? If you volunteered to send this money to help support her and or her family then it is intirely up to you. If she asked for the money, then I would step back and wonder about it.

I'm married to a Thai lady and all the time I dated her, she never asked for money to help her or her family. Even after we were married, her brother and sisters came running to the house saying we need this and we need that and the wife told them that I wasn't an ATM machine (not exactly in those words mind you, LOL) and to forget about asking all the time for money and stuff. We do help but it is not a monthly amount and I for one believe that they should not expect it to be.

I think that it only makes for a bad situation for the Thais themselves. It also keeps that old idea going that ALL farang are rich.

Do what you wish but it's not my cup of tea and that goes for paying a dowery also. I'm not buying the lady, I'm just going to support her, our daughter and myself in the best way possible.

Edited May 19, 2005 by Kringle

[haha]

Has anyone tried to get work done in  their house lately by tradesmen, last year a couple of 'electricians' came around to price some extra sockets for a fitted kitchen, called around, looked at the job and declared 5000 baht which i could have completed in 2 hours tops if i had tools, anyway i cleared them

Point is thailand is not as backward as used to be, here in Pataya, tradesmen like tilers, sparkies, plasters etc can charge pretty good as as it's so hard to get someone.

I think 10 g a month is reasanble, after all you don't want to compared to the average working class thai or else she would go for that 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I knew somebody who had a 3 story house built in pattaya near lotus. he told me his thai wife got a crew of construction folks to build his house for 172 baht per day per person. these guys were working at least 8 hours a day for the 172 baht.

..and they weren't just common laborers.

[simple1]

My extended Thai familyin Pattaya earn on average around 150 baht a day working 12 hours a day 7 days a week. Being Thailand they do not receive any sick or holiday pay. Therefore average PCM pay is 4500 baht; allowing for motorbike finance payments of 2000 baht a month (so they can get to work) net income is 2500 to pay for food, utilities clothing etc Good standard of living??? I'm constantly amazed Thailand does not have greater social unrest...

[Steve2UK]

Somewhere up the thread the issue of work came up – which I’m surprise how little it does in relation to sending money.  I guess this is where my values come in but I think people should work for what they get and it’s good to help people who help themselves.  My case is a typical meet the bg and want to help knowing (at least in retrospect) all the pitfalls.  For me, from the get go, it didn’t make sense to just send money.  If the person was sincere about wanting a better and different life how did this help?  If I just send money to an able bodied person, enough to live on, what are they going to do all day? Watch TV?  Think maybe it would be good to have two guys sending money?  Even if it’s not much money for me why should I be working my butt off so someone can stay at home and do nothing? For me this just didn’t make sense.  My solution was to find an organization and fund an internship for a period of time.  The deal was they would provide a job and training where the person would learn new skills.  I would pay for the cost (wage, insurance, tax, etc.).  The person would work in the job at the discretion of the manager.  If she didn’t do a good job, didn’t show up then she should be fired and the organization could keep the money I’d paid. I wasn’t going to interfere.   A year later my gf now has learned valuable skills, has a lot more confidence and has been given the job on a permanent basis without more money from me. She earned it.  Maybe this cost me a little more but I think the mutual value was huge. (it didn’t cost so much really because the organization was an international NGO so from a US perspective my donations were tax-deductible and employer matched).  My gf got some great training and experience, this organization that does really good work was able to do more for other people and I got in essence a 3rd party reference check; that she was responsible, trustworthy, got along with people, was given more responsibility and that she is a very, very hard and dedicate worker.  It was a win-win-win.

IMHO giving money to able bodied people reinforces a kind of dependence.  Now I have a gf with a good job, a good future and money in the bank.  Am I happy to help her more or treat her to something nice now and again?  Sure why not. But for our singular case this really helped and grounded our relationship in a solid, mutually respectful way.

Lastly I don’t at mind the idea of sending money to the parents.  That is the Thai way, that is the cultural and social system and within that it’s the right thing to do.  Nor do I mind the idea of supporting a wife with kids or taking care of the home if it comes to that.  But sending money 8000 miles so someone can just do nothing and not improve their ability to do something productive with their life? Not for me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wholeheartedly agree with this (and with the points in Kringle's post). I think it's great to use our relatively greater wealth to give someone else a chance that they might not have had otherwise - a leg up, if you like. Then it's up to them to make the most of it. Sure, there can be a continued helping hand along the way - but it is only helping them forward - not replacing the need to make something of themselves in the first place.

Everyone's going to make their own choices and I'm not going to get into knocking those who decide that they like the idea of paying their GF or BF to do nothing - but I would invite them to consider what they're getting into. Even allowing that many Thai's may have a different attitude to self-advancement and planning for the future than do many westerners, I really think that a degree of self-worth and self-respect (hai kiad in Thailand) is fairly common to most of both; I find it difficult to see how it can survive intact in a situation where one partner (the senior, presumably) is just doling out cash to the other (junior) one.

I have a Thai BF who has his own small bar/restaurant. I've paid for a few minor things to help his business, got it listed on some websites and have also given him some money to see him through a slack time - but no way would I get into providing him with a regular subsidy for something that would fail otherwise. If it turns out that the bar just can't be self-sustaining, IMO he should ditch it and do something else; if it takes some help to get him started on the something else, I'll give it to him - it's then down to him to make it work.

This is only my view and certainly won't suit all farangs and all Thai's. Up to you

Edited May 19, 2005 by Steve2UK

[chownah]

Somewhere up the thread the issue of work came up – which I’m surprise how little it does in relation to sending money.  I guess this is where my values come in but I think people should work for what they get and it’s good to help people who help themselves.  My case is a typical meet the bg and want to help knowing (at least in retrospect) all the pitfalls.  For me, from the get go, it didn’t make sense to just send money.  If the person was sincere about wanting a better and different life how did this help?  If I just send money to an able bodied person, enough to live on, what are they going to do all day? Watch TV?  Think maybe it would be good to have two guys sending money?  Even if it’s not much money for me why should I be working my butt off so someone can stay at home and do nothing? For me this just didn’t make sense.  My solution was to find an organization and fund an internship for a period of time.  The deal was they would provide a job and training where the person would learn new skills.  I would pay for the cost (wage, insurance, tax, etc.).  The person would work in the job at the discretion of the manager.  If she didn’t do a good job, didn’t show up then she should be fired and the organization could keep the money I’d paid. I wasn’t going to interfere.  A year later my gf now has learned valuable skills, has a lot more confidence and has been given the job on a permanent basis without more money from me. She earned it.  Maybe this cost me a little more but I think the mutual value was huge. (it didn’t cost so much really because the organization was an international NGO so from a US perspective my donations were tax-deductible and employer matched).  My gf got some great training and experience, this organization that does really good work was able to do more for other people and I got in essence a 3rd party reference check; that she was responsible, trustworthy, got along with people, was given more responsibility and that she is a very, very hard and dedicate worker.  It was a win-win-win.

IMHO giving money to able bodied people reinforces a kind of dependence.  Now I have a gf with a good job, a good future and money in the bank.  Am I happy to help her more or treat her to something nice now and again?  Sure why not. But for our singular case this really helped and grounded our relationship in a solid, mutually respectful way.

Lastly I don’t at mind the idea of sending money to the parents.  That is the Thai way, that is the cultural and social system and within that it’s the right thing to do.  Nor do I mind the idea of supporting a wife with kids or taking care of the home if it comes to that.  But sending money 8000 miles so someone can just do nothing and not improve their ability to do something productive with their life? Not for me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's the name of this NGO and what do they call the program you enrolled your girlfriend in? Seems like lots of people here would like to know.

[kat]

Somewhere up the thread the issue of work came up – which I’m surprise how little it does in relation to sending money.  I guess this is where my values come in but I think people should work for what they get and it’s good to help people who help themselves.  My case is a typical meet the bg and want to help knowing (at least in retrospect) all the pitfalls.  For me, from the get go, it didn’t make sense to just send money.  If the person was sincere about wanting a better and different life how did this help?  If I just send money to an able bodied person, enough to live on, what are they going to do all day? Watch TV?  Think maybe it would be good to have two guys sending money?  Even if it’s not much money for me why should I be working my butt off so someone can stay at home and do nothing? For me this just didn’t make sense.  My solution was to find an organization and fund an internship for a period of time.  The deal was they would provide a job and training where the person would learn new skills.  I would pay for the cost (wage, insurance, tax, etc.).  The person would work in the job at the discretion of the manager.  If she didn’t do a good job, didn’t show up then she should be fired and the organization could keep the money I’d paid. I wasn’t going to interfere.  A year later my gf now has learned valuable skills, has a lot more confidence and has been given the job on a permanent basis without more money from me. She earned it.  Maybe this cost me a little more but I think the mutual value was huge. (it didn’t cost so much really because the organization was an international NGO so from a US perspective my donations were tax-deductible and employer matched).  My gf got some great training and experience, this organization that does really good work was able to do more for other people and I got in essence a 3rd party reference check; that she was responsible, trustworthy, got along with people, was given more responsibility and that she is a very, very hard and dedicate worker.  It was a win-win-win.

IMHO giving money to able bodied people reinforces a kind of dependence.  Now I have a gf with a good job, a good future and money in the bank.  Am I happy to help her more or treat her to something nice now and again?  Sure why not. But for our singular case this really helped and grounded our relationship in a solid, mutually respectful way.

Lastly I don’t at mind the idea of sending money to the parents.  That is the Thai way, that is the cultural and social system and within that it’s the right thing to do.  Nor do I mind the idea of supporting a wife with kids or taking care of the home if it comes to that.  But sending money 8000 miles so someone can just do nothing and not improve their ability to do something productive with their life? Not for me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bravo, Easyb.

Most of these threads which discuss "allowances" for Thai girlfriends or wives, sound like the kind of unconditional support that one usually reserves for children. They have done nothing except continued or encouraged a learned dependence. Perhaps many men here prefer it that way.

[easyb]

What's the name of this NGO and what do they call the program you enrolled your girlfriend in?  Seems like lots of people here would like to know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I’d rather not give the name of the organization. They are a small org with a focus is on a sector of social work and not in the area of doing internships or training program. This was their first internship position. I happen to know of their US counterpart via work I do with non-profits here in the US and via that contacted the Thailand Director and made a proposal for this internship. We exchanged a couple emails and came to an agreement. My gf would do whatever they wanted work-wise as long as it wasn’t exclusively menial and there was an element of training for new skills (for instance they give her projects or responsibilities that require a computer every week). They could fire here at any time if she didn’t workout and keep my donation. My gf went to an interview and they accepted her. It was pretty simple really. From there I haven’t done anything. I checked in with the director a couple times and always got good reports. (I felt it was important that I didn’t badger or interfere so I think this was 2 or 3 times over the entire year and just an open “how’s it going”)

Before I came up with this option I considered different things. My goal was the same. I wanted to help my gf build a better life by being self-sufficient. We discussed her going to school, maybe learn English and Computers or a trade like hairdresser school. An internship could just as easy be with a company in the private sector. It’s about her interests and your imagination. For instance if someone wanted to work in the resort business there must be dozens of small to mid-sized hotels or guest houses that might take someone on and teach them the office skills, or a travel office. In terms of NGO’s in Thailand if you just spent an hour on Google I bet you could find dozens and dozens with contact names and everything. Start sending email and making the proposal.

Steve above had good comments about helping his bf who has a bar. In my gf’s case there were a series of financial challenges in her family what would make it hard to live on 5000 per month. If she had some job she had wanted to do that paid only that amount I’d have been happy to help make up the difference. There are so many ways and different individuals. I guess the bottom line to me was two fold: One aspect is the personal responsibility versus dependency and building independence and confidence. The other was an opportunity to see how this person functioned in the “real work world”, handled responsibility, social skills, etc. If she’s a bg because she’s unmotivated to do anything else or just thinks it’s a good way to make a living that’s not such an interesting person to me and seems a likely person to take my money and that of a few guys and consider herself lucky. If she’s truly doing it because it seemed like the only option to get out of a hole she was in then I got to see what happened when I provided an alternative opportunity. What I saw was wonderful. A very sincere, totally honest, hard working and fun loving person who seized this opportunity and never looked back. If we end up together it will be a happy thing, if not she’s off on the life she dreamed of and proud of having done that.