Do You Hope The Redshirts Succeed?

[trashy]

Unfortunately, the farming community are incapable of running a country.

Taksin bought his way into their hearts, and their votes.

The farming community are the infantry in this war, being pushed to the front, and are being used as an expendable comodity.

The Issan peoples are very warm and loving, but also gullible, and are being exploited by the anti royalist red shirt leaders.

[IMA_FARANG]

I voted No.

Not because I have any particular hatred for the Reds...or a love for them for that matter.

Yes, I do believe that Thailand needs a more equitable division of resources between the cities, who have too much power, and the coutryside, which has too little power.

But I don't think the Reds are going to give them that eqiutable division.

In fact I think the Reds are just a front for another elitest dictator. No good will come to Issan and the countryside if the Reds do take over. They are the same crooks as the others....just with a different political lie to sell.

And it wouldn't bother me at all if some of the wealthy elite businessmen and there western capitalist values were brought down.

But again, I'm afraid the Reds won't do anything about that.

Thailand does need an "overthrow" of the system, in that the average working people need to actually run the government. Isn't that a radical idea, a government run by the people, not only those with money? Not like most of the European countries, the U.K., and the U.S.A. I might add.

And, once again, I don't see the Reds actually doing that.

Edited March 12, 2010 by IMA_FARANG

[ivowatson]

Yes, but peacefully and lawfully.

Do you know already who you're going to blame when violence breaks out?

Not an easy choice: the army, the blues, the yellows, Abbhisit's family members, the "elites", retarded people, southern rebels, Hun Sen,...

[SeanMoran]

Before we go any further Sean....

The UDD are the National United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship, one of the main factions of the red-shirts.

The TRT (Or Thai Rak Thai) are a now a defunct political party whom are now known as PTP.

They are two separate entities, one (the UDD) which is and never has been a political party and the other (TRT) is no longer in existence.

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME SEAN!

Okay, if you say so Mr Pedantic, then TRT would still retain government. Are you happy now ?

[thaihome]

Okay, if you say so Mr Pedantic, then TRT would still retain government. Are you happy now ?

The TRT had that opportunity in the 2006 election when they ran unopposed. Though getting 60% of the vote, the other 40% voting "none", they were unable to get a majority of the MP elected as it was required that in each district in order to win the candidate must get over 50% of the vote. They could not do that.

The courts then ruled the election was void.

TH

[rixalex]

As I said, if people are so sure that the PTP will be beaten at the polls, then hold the election. Abhisit and the Democrats win the popular vote, questions of legitimacy are put to rest, democracy is served. What are they waiting for?

No matter what some people's perception might be, the current government is legitimate.

You think a country should go to the polls because a minority of the people are under a misconception that the government isn't legitimate? And what happens if we have new elections and a section of society incorrectly then believes that the new government is not legitimate? To the polls we go again? It's a never-ending nonsense.

The current government is legitimately and legally in place and should serve its term; and like any other government, call elections at a date of its choosing. It and the rest of the country shouldn't be held to ransom by mob rule on the streets.

[rixalex]

If democratic elections were the only way to win government here, then there's no doubt that the UDD would retain government to this day, even if sometimes less than 50%. A majority is a majority.

Psst... less than 50% is not a majority.

[Roadman]

Yes, but peacefully and lawfully.

Do you know already who you're going to blame when violence breaks out?

Not an easy choice: the army, the blues, the yellows, Abbhisit's family members, the "elites", retarded people, southern rebels, Hun Sen,...

Where's the GW Bush option

[Tedhead]

As I said, if people are so sure that the PTP will be beaten at the polls, then hold the election. Abhisit and the Democrats win the popular vote, questions of legitimacy are put to rest, democracy is served. What are they waiting for?

No matter what some people's perception might be, the current government is legitimate.

You think a country should go to the polls because a minority of the people are under a misconception that the government isn't legitimate? And what happens if we have new elections and a section of society incorrectly then believes that the new government is not legitimate? To the polls we go again? It's a never-ending nonsense.

The current government is legitimately and legally in place and should serve its term; and like any other government, call elections at a date of its choosing. It and the rest of the country shouldn't be held to ransom by mob rule on the streets.

Well, it's certainly legally in place, as for legitimately I might agree with you had they [a] won the largest number of votes or had the largest party been unable to form a coalition. The PPP won the largest number of votes. They formed a coalition. The constitutional court - the traditional elite's weapon of choice - dissolved the PPP and therefore the coalition. If all else fails, outlaw the party. Twice.

Like it or not, that's not a misconception. That's what happened. And as I mentioned before, notice that when the Attorney General's Office recommended that the Democrat Party be dissolved for bribing smaller parties to boycott the 2006 election, they were left unscathed. Now they're the government. Funny how that works.

Don't worry, with every element of the state backing them, I'm sure the current administration will ride out this storm. Although it's odd that they couldn't manage to move against the 'mob rule' of the yellow shirts taking over airports. I'm sure that's a different kind of mob rule.

So let's assume that you get your wish and the current government serves its full term. And suppose, that for the fifth time in a row, the Democrat Party loses the election and the PTP form a majority administration or a coalition. Time for another constitutional court date perhaps? But of course, that would be a transparently ridiculous way to keep negating the expressed voting preferences of the Thai people. Wouldn't it?

[SeanMoran]

If democratic elections were the only way to win government here, then there's no doubt that the UDD would retain government to this day, even if sometimes less than 50%. A majority is a majority.

Psst... less than 50% is not a majority.

If there are more than two parties, and one party gets 40%, another gets 35%, and another gets 25%, then 40% is the majority.

[Moonrakers]

nevermind

Edited March 12, 2010 by Moonrakers

[SeanMoran]

If democratic elections were the only way to win government here, then there's no doubt that the UDD would retain government to this day, even if sometimes less than 50%. A majority is a majority.

Psst... less than 50% is not a majority.

If there are more than two parties, and one party gets 40%, another gets 35%, and another gets 25%, then 40% is the majority.

No Sean.

Get a dictionary mate.

And I am definitely not being pedantic this time Sean, to claim a majority when it is just not the case is very misleading.

Okay then, what is the greater sum? 40 or 35 or 25?

Majority Ma*jor"i*ty, n.; pl. Majorities. [F. majorit['e].

See Major.]

1. The quality or condition of being major or greater;

superiority. Specifically:

(a) The military rank of a major.

( The condition of being of full age, or authorized by

law to manage one's own affairs.

[1913 Webster]

Yes, you are once again being pedantic and it's not conducive to a good discussion, but it's Friday night and it's a web forum, so all I can do is crack another Chang and propose a toast to the wit of your repartee, old son.

Mai pen lai all the way.

[rixalex]

If there are more than two parties, and one party gets 40%, another gets 35%, and another gets 25%, then 40% is the majority.

40% is the majority?!!!!

How many Changs have you sunk?

[SeanMoran]

If there are more than two parties, and one party gets 40%, another gets 35%, and another gets 25%, then 40% is the majority.

40% is the majority?!!!!

How many Changs have you sunk?

Yes and I'm sorry. I admit that you're right again. 25% is obviously the majority in the above three-way split.

[rixalex]

If there are more than two parties, and one party gets 40%, another gets 35%, and another gets 25%, then 40% is the majority.

40% is the majority?!!!!

How many Changs have you sunk?

Yes and I'm sorry. I admit that you're right again. 25% is obviously the majority in the above three-way split.

You seem to think that "the most" means the same as "the majority". It does not.

Why do you think the PPP had to form a coalition because going by your definition, they had a majority?

[Esai]

Is there a Math sub-forum here?

Sean could be in charge of it

[Moonrakers]

Is there a Math sub-forum here?

Sean could be in charge of it

I dunno. The majority might disagree with you there.

[smokie36]

I voted for a redshirt revolution....only because it seems like more fun.

The current lot are a bit too New Labour for my liking.

And I want to see pics of Thaksin flying in and being shot down over Issan....His finest political move!

[cdnvic]

Personal attacks removed

[cdnvic]

Blatant political sloganeering deleted as it was multi-posted.

[Chaimai]

You know that once cndvic (is that Canadian Vic ? or an anagram) becomes the biggest poster, the thread will not last long.

I think that the OP question is too narrow.

Succeed in what ?

[BSJ]

I can't vote Yes or No, cos it's not my fight. I do know the best way forward is for Thailand to hold free and fair elections without influence from the military. Unfortunately the best solution isn't always the real solution!

[cdnvic]

You know that once cndvic (is that Canadian Vic ? or an anagram) becomes the biggest poster, the thread will not last long.

I'm usually on when all the drunk posters are, so it's skews the figures somewhat on deleting posts.

Carry on

[seri thai]

It is not an ideal situation a bunch of uneducated and manipulated people who are paid to create this situation and also accept them to run the country.

Are you talking about the Army?

[Chaimai]

You know that once cndvic (is that Canadian Vic ? or an anagram) becomes the biggest poster, the thread will not last long.

I'm usually on when all the drunk posters are, so it's skews the figures somewhat on deleting posts.

Carry on

Sorry, cdnvic - I can see you have the short straw. I will go and sober up .

On reflection, surely that makes your job easier than a 'day-time' mod ?

Goodnight.

[seri thai]

I can't vote Yes or No, cos it's not my fight. I do know the best way forward is for Thailand to hold free and fair elections without influence from the military. Unfortunately the best solution isn't always the real solution!

I think the question is tilted.

A) Do I want a group of uniformed people on the street to remove a government? NO! Neither green, red or yellow shirts should be able to do that.

Do I want to see a reduction in corruption, more equal distribution of wealth, health and education- YES

If the aim of the red shirt movement is A I do not support them. If it is B then I do.

Sadly these issues have been obscured by disseminating lies and propaganda on both sides. My personal opinion is that the Red shirt movement should disassociate itself from Thaksin and the Democrat alliance from corrupt backers and extremist representatives.

If the government and status quo survives it's trial at the weekend, as it most likely will, the completely wrong action will be to congratulate itself and go on as usual. Change has to come and WILL come and hopefully not from the barrel of a gun.

[seri thai]

Don't really care but it would give the elected government back to the people

Funnily enough it is an elected government.

This goes around and around doesn't it?

NO!, again NO!

It's a coalition of elected MP's cobbled together by Suthep from disparate and opposing parties (read vested interests) many of whom abandoned their electorate to benefit from the patronage system. (Same system which probably got them voted in, I admit).

This government replaced the previous government which was rendered null and void by a judiciary appointed by an illegal military coup that was retrospectively made legal and subsequently so was the appointed judiciary and government.

OK to simplify for newcomers or those with a short attention span, a brief guide to Thai politics in the 21st Century :

Those of you who approve coup democracy step to the right and put on a yellow shirt

Those of you who do not approve of a coup removing your democracy (faults'n'all) step to the left and put on a red shirt

Those of you who want to make money on it either way put on a blue shirt

Those of you who's football it is and won't play unless you are allowed to win put on a green shirt.

[ivowatson]

OK to simplify for newcomers or those with a short attention span, a brief guide to Thai politics in the 21st Century :

Those of you who approve coup democracy step to the right and put on a yellow shirt

Those of you who do not approve of a coup removing your democracy (faults'n'all) step to the left and put on a red shirt

Those of you who want to make money on it either way put on a blue shirt

Those of you who's football it is and won't play unless you are allowed to win put on a green shirt.

Not at that moment in time but now I do approve of the coup. IMO it turned out the best solution. I even don't dare to start imagining where our dear friend Mr. T. would be now without that intervention (and I don't think he would have turned those poor farmers into millionaires as they surely expected).

But I won't wear a yellow shirt (not even on Mondays anymore). Since the airport occupation, I think those b@st@rds belong in jail and I don't really understand why the judiciairy didn't follow up on it. It would make the reds obsolete. I'm sure Chamlong wouldn't mind doing some jail time if it would be for the good of the country. I'm not sure about Sondhi though. I'm very fearful he'll try to make a deal WHEN he will be convicted.

I also won't wear a red shirt anymore because I don't like violence, bullies, thieves and big mouth scum. It's my biggest dream that yellow and red will occupy the same jail cells. I'll even bring them food.

The way you put it, blue and green shirts represent the cowards to me but no doubt many will see this as the oh so clever ones.

Don't you have any other colors?

[ThailandTommy]

Does anyone really care if they win or lose? The country will be run the same regardless of what party or who is in power.......I personally couldn't give a monkeys C·%&T

Regardless of who is in power it will not affect most foreigners.....The Thai's are their own worse enemy selling their votes to the higest bidder.....don't forget money number one in LoS

[rixalex]

Don't really care but it would give the elected government back to the people

Funnily enough it is an elected government.

This goes around and around doesn't it?

NO!, again NO!

It's a coalition of elected MP's cobbled together by Suthep from disparate and opposing parties (read vested interests) many of whom abandoned their electorate to benefit from the patronage system.

Whichever way you cut it, elected MPs = an elected government.