Is It Normal?

[mikebike]

Used to hit the Han Chef up in Chalong regularly when we lived up there a couple of years ago... If we take the car we can usually find a place to wedge it in nearby!!!

[phomsanuk]

Biggest mistake was ordering the glass of Mont Clair.

Stuff has added fruit juice in it, horrible product. The people who sell this wine are strictly after the price point.

Isn't wine fruit [grape] juice fermented? I drink Montclaire and find the taste a bit harsh due to the abnormally high alcohol content from fermenting juice. Boxed wine is best here because no air is introduced to maderise the wine which usually doesn't sell fast and is stored improperly. Montclair or Ingelnook [softer, less alcohol] are probably your best Bang for the buck in this country.

[grumpyoldman]

Biggest mistake was ordering the glass of Mont Clair.

Stuff has added fruit juice in it, horrible product. The people who sell this wine are strictly after the price point.

Isn't wine fruit [grape] juice fermented?

You are absolutely correct, but there is generally a difference between what we call "country wine" and traditional "wine".

Many fruits can be fermented, i.e. a popular country wine here in Thailand is pineapple wine.

Although I haven't tried it another "bang for your buck" product is this Peter Vella, not sure if it's reconstituted but in my opinion just about anything is better than Mont Clair.

[Bedrockguesthouse]

But u knew a glass of wine was 120 baht thats what you ordered and thats what you got. As for the margin thats the way it goes and it differs from establishment to establishment

i guess your only option now is ask the eating place whats the cost of the item so you can work out if you want to pay the margin they are adding. Sounds complicated to me.

[Bedrockguesthouse]

Try running a restaurant/bar and do the numbers. 400 % is about standard worldwide.

Totally correct. Labour costs, rent, electric, water, purchasing costs, maintenance etc etc etc

we should all run our business with a 30 % markup and go broke in 30 days

[Cuban]

A markup of 412%. Even at 100 baht per glass is a 343% markup.......no bottle..no problem...... Crazy.

Well are least they were honest that it was from a box - rather than refilling a random bottle.

I thought the profit was a big factor in why people bought and ran bars in Thailand?

[stevenl]

A markup of 412%. Even at 100 baht per glass is a 343% markup.......no bottle..no problem...... Crazy.

Well are least they were honest that it was from a box - rather than refilling a random bottle.

I thought the profit was a big factor in why people bought and ran bars in Thailand?

yes, that is what a lot of people who buy/rent a bar think. After doing so for a few months they know better.

[NamKangMan]

Bravo! Well! Apart from one you have not understood anything ...

The fact is that it is absurd mark-ups by over 400 %.... no from where to pour the wine.

I normally pay 250 baht a glass of Chardonnay that costs 650 baht ( to the restaurant) the bottle. Are 5 glasses for a total of 1,250 baht. The markup is 93%! If I take the whole bottle (but alone it is difficult) I pay 1100 baht = markup of 70%.

On the quality of a wine that costs 960 baht per 5 liters (= 192 baht per liter with the mountains of thai taxes on wine) I have very strong doubts!-certainly-if I had known what was the "house wine" ...

I would take apart the robbery markup which has nothing to do with a proper service-quality-price ratio.

ps: Clearly, for many of you is normal to pay over 400% mark-up .....for a wine glass or, easier, you drink only and ever beer....

That's Phuket. Red wine, tuk-tuks - there is a long list. The tourist farangs will slowly get smarter. I can see increased sales of alcohol from the supermarkets and more and more "balcony parties" as the Phuket nightlife outprices itself, like many other things on the island, or, farang will simply go elsewhere. The Thai's will stretch the farang wallet as far as it will go, thinking, "Farang can pay" however, they will realise, one day, farang money is not infinite.

[katabeachbum]

That's Phuket. Red wine, tuk-tuks - there is a long list. The tourist farangs will slowly get smarter. I can see increased sales of alcohol from the supermarkets and more and more "balcony parties" as the Phuket nightlife outprices itself, like many other things on the island, or, farang will simply go elsewhere. The Thai's will stretch the farang wallet as far as it will go, thinking, "Farang can pay" however, they will realise, one day, farang money is not infinite.

so where else would the tourists go to get a glass of housewine for 60-120 baht, or a beer in a bar from 40-70 baht?

Edited March 22, 2010 by katabeachbum

[NamKangMan]

That's Phuket. Red wine, tuk-tuks - there is a long list. The tourist farangs will slowly get smarter. I can see increased sales of alcohol from the supermarkets and more and more "balcony parties" as the Phuket nightlife outprices itself, like many other things on the island, or, farang will simply go elsewhere. The Thai's will stretch the farang wallet as far as it will go, thinking, "Farang can pay" however, they will realise, one day, farang money is not infinite.

so where else would the tourists go to get a glass of housewine for 60-120 baht, or a beer in a bar from 40-70 baht?

Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam.

The day may come where we see expat farang move "next door" WITH their Thai girlfriend/wife.

Vietnam, especially, will be in direct competition for the Thai tourist dollar soon, if not already. It has great beaches, food, accommodation options and a "girly bar" scene. Whilst they do not offer a visa exemption stamp, on arrival, I have just got a 3 month multiple with no problems. So, not only is it more afordable, the process to reside there, long term, is easier than Thailand. The Thai's will kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

In Phuket, we are seeing prices that are more expensive than prices in farang countries. By their own admission, they are targeting more wealthy tourist, however, will they put up with the smell of sewage whilst walking along the uneven, pothole ridden footpath and all the other minor discomforts? I love Phuket, however, have found myself being more and more "Cheap Charlie" just to live here now, and the global economic crisis was/is not the reason. In Phuket, it's normal for things to go up by 50%, if not more, overnight.

There may also come a day when farang expats move back to Issan and just holiday in Phuket. Certainly, Airasia have considered this new market with the

Udon Thani and Chaing Mai - Phuket route (apart from the visa runners).

Edited March 22, 2010 by NamKangMan

[katabeachbum]

Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam.

The day may come where we see expat farang move "next door" WITH their Thai girlfriend/wife.

Vietnam, especially, will be in direct competition for the Thai tourist dollar soon, if not already. It has great beaches, food, accommodation options and a "girly bar" scene. Whilst they do not offer a visa exemption stamp, on arrival, I have just got a 3 month multiple with no problems. So, not only is it more afordable, the process to reside there, long term, is easier than Thailand. The Thai's will kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

In Phuket, we are seeing prices that are more expensive than prices in farang countries. By their own admission, they are targeting more wealthy tourist, however, will they put up with the smell of sewage whilst walking along the uneven, pothole ridden footpath and all the other minor discomforts? I love Phuket, however, have found myself being more and more "Cheap Charlie" just to live here now, and the global economic crisis was/is not the reason. In Phuket, it's normal for things to go up by 50%, if not more, overnight.

There may also come a day when farang expats move back to Issan and just holiday in Phuket. Certainly, Airasia have considered this new market with the

Udon Thani and Chaing Mai - Phuket route (apart from the visa runners).

Non of these destinations tempt me to reside in, and I ll stick to Phuket and Hua Hin. I fail to see the high prices you mention, except for tuk tuks which most residents dont use anyway.

[NamKangMan]

Non of these destinations tempt me to reside in, and I ll stick to Phuket and Hua Hin. I fail to see the high prices you mention, except for tuk tuks which most residents dont use anyway.

My point being, one day, you may not have a choice. For example, hypothetically, if the price of accommodation, food, beer, electricity etc etc went up to crazy, tuk-tuk style prices. Most, simply will not be able to aford to reside on Phuket.

If the percentage of yearly increase/mark-up/rip off etc continues at the current rate, which is way more than the global CPI, I can only see it becoming unafordable for expat farang in the future, especially for retirees whose pensions only increase by CPI.

In any case, surely, you have noticed cheaper prices in Hua Hin. It's not a bit cheaper, it's a lot cheaper.

So, whilst many may not move to neighbouring country, a lot will move to other locations in Thailand that are way cheaper.

I can understand Phuket being more expensive than elsewhere, due to higher rents etc, BUT, to the levels we are experiencing, regularly, I think is just a farang money grab.

[stevenl]

If the percentage of yearly increase/mark-up/rip off etc continues at the current rate, which is way more than the global CPI, I can only see it becoming unafordable for expat farang in the future, especially for retirees whose pensions only increase by CPI.

So far nobody has been able to substantiate claims like that with numbers. IMO, because those numbers do not exist: this is all perception and has nothing to do with the factual situation on Phuket.

[phuketrex]

That mark up is nothing compared to what you can pay for water. Small bottle in Tesco 12baht yet you can buy a litre of drinking water for 1 baht out of the vending machines at the roadside.

[katabeachbum]

Non of these destinations tempt me to reside in, and I ll stick to Phuket and Hua Hin. I fail to see the high prices you mention, except for tuk tuks which most residents dont use anyway.

My point being, one day, you may not have a choice. For example, hypothetically, if the price of accommodation, food, beer, electricity etc etc went up to crazy, tuk-tuk style prices. Most, simply will not be able to aford to reside on Phuket.

If the percentage of yearly increase/mark-up/rip off etc continues at the current rate, which is way more than the global CPI, I can only see it becoming unafordable for expat farang in the future, especially for retirees whose pensions only increase by CPI.

In any case, surely, you have noticed cheaper prices in Hua Hin. It's not a bit cheaper, it's a lot cheaper.

So, whilst many may not move to neighbouring country, a lot will move to other locations in Thailand that are way cheaper.

I can understand Phuket being more expensive than elsewhere, due to higher rents etc, BUT, to the levels we are experiencing, regularly, I think is just a farang money grab.

I have a home in Hua Hin and a home in Phuket. Same prices on most stuff both places. If you have found anything cheaper, please let us know

[katabeachbum]

That mark up is nothing compared to what you can pay for water. Small bottle in Tesco 12baht yet you can buy a litre of drinking water for 1 baht out of the vending machines at the roadside.

seconded

20 litres drinking water, 10 baht, thats 0,5 baht/litres or 0,25 baht/litres. most restaurants 15-70 baht for half a litres.

Since OP was unhappy about paying 120 baht for a glass from a 5 litres box, the above watercomparison is similar but at much higher mark up.

[LivinginKata]

so where else would the tourists go to get a glass of housewine for 60-120 baht, or a beer in a bar from 40-70 baht?

Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam.

The day may come where we see expat farang move "next door" WITH their Thai girlfriend/wife.

Vietnam, especially, will be in direct competition for the Thai tourist dollar soon, if not already. It has great beaches, food, accommodation options and a "girly bar" scene. Whilst they do not offer a visa exemption stamp, on arrival, I have just got a 3 month multiple with no problems. So, not only is it more afordable, the process to reside there, long term, is easier than Thailand. The Thai's will kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

Ok, I know this is a bit off topic, but right now I am in Vietnam (Ho Chi Minh) as a first time tourist these past 3 days. I have been astonished at the rip off prices for taxis, double/triple/whatever pricing, short changing, no change available, unbelievable persistence of the street vendors & beggars. You just cannot shake them off. I'll be very happy to get back to Phuket, at least there I do know the system. Can't comment on the price of a glass of wine as I have yet to find somewhere that sells a glass of wine. Price of beer much the same as Phuket.

[katabeachbum]

Ok, I know this is a bit off topic, but right now I am in Vietnam (Ho Chi Minh) as a first time tourist these past 3 days. I have been astonished at the rip off prices for taxis, double/triple/whatever pricing, short changing, no change available, unbelievable persistence of the street vendors & beggars. You just cannot shake them off. I'll be very happy to get back to Phuket, at least there I do know the system. Can't comment on the price of a glass of wine as I have yet to find somewhere that sells a glass of wine. Price of beer much the same as Phuket.

My mum and dad where in Vietnam 2 weeks before they came her to Phuket in December on holiday. Exactly same experience, and so releaved to visit me in Phuket where they find it sivilized (in comparison). Better to pay 60-120 baht for a glass of wine in Phuket, than dreaming about finding it in another country

and LivinginKata we are far off topic, actaually in Vietnam, mods..............

[LivinLOS]

So far nobody has been able to substantiate claims like that with numbers. IMO, because those numbers do not exist: this is all perception and has nothing to do with the factual situation on Phuket.

Sang som coke 176 baht

Jack and coke (around) 400 baht

Burger and fries 750 baht

I could go on...

All patong prices being charged. Sure you can avoid it, but to say they dont exist is not factual.

For me I dont really care about the pricing aspect, sure cheaper is better but its not the problem. What bothers me is the attitude its fine to 'do anything to make a buck' the cheating and scamming, the breaking of deals as soon as theres an upper hand, and the lack of ability to really assimilate.

[LivinLOS]

My point being, one day, you may not have a choice. For example, hypothetically, if the price of accommodation, food, beer, electricity etc etc went up to crazy, tuk-tuk style prices. Most, simply will not be able to aford to reside on Phuket.

If the percentage of yearly increase/mark-up/rip off etc continues at the current rate, which is way more than the global CPI, I can only see it becoming unafordable for expat farang in the future, especially for retirees whose pensions only increase by CPI.

In any case, surely, you have noticed cheaper prices in Hua Hin. It's not a bit cheaper, it's a lot cheaper.

So, whilst many may not move to neighbouring country, a lot will move to other locations in Thailand that are way cheaper.

I can understand Phuket being more expensive than elsewhere, due to higher rents etc, BUT, to the levels we are experiencing, regularly, I think is just a farang money grab.

I have a home in Hua Hin and a home in Phuket. Same prices on most stuff both places. If you have found anything cheaper, please let us know

The home ??? Hua Hin property is WAAAAY cheaper.

Then again they dont have the andaman.. I know its horribly picky, but the sea is the wrong kind of blue there !! And the connections for airports and regional air travel is just so much less convenient.

[katabeachbum]

I have a home in Hua Hin and a home in Phuket. Same prices on most stuff both places. If you have found anything cheaper, please let us know

The home ??? Hua Hin property is WAAAAY cheaper.

Then again they dont have the andaman.. I know its horribly picky, but the sea is the wrong kind of blue there !! And the connections for airports and regional air travel is just so much less convenient.

Hua Hin beachfront Naebkehardt is 100.000 baht/talangwah, similar to patong, kata, karon beachfront. I am 120 meters from beachfront and between the palace and town and payed 70.000 baht/talangwah.

Other locations like Avalon HH are cheap. So is heroins monument in Phuket

But I agree, in general HH property is way cheaper. Phuket property rises more in value though, because of the lack of good locations.

Kata to Phuket airport is 45 minutes to one hour, door to door.

Hua Hin to Suvarnabhum is 2 hours, door to door

Back to topic. A glass of house wine is only 60-120 baht both places

[NamKangMan]

Ok, I know this is a bit off topic, but right now I am in Vietnam (Ho Chi Minh) as a first time tourist these past 3 days. I have been astonished at the rip off prices for taxis, double/triple/whatever pricing, short changing, no change available, unbelievable persistence of the street vendors & beggars. You just cannot shake them off. I'll be very happy to get back to Phuket, at least there I do know the system. Can't comment on the price of a glass of wine as I have yet to find somewhere that sells a glass of wine. Price of beer much the same as Phuket.

Mate,

you are in the Vietnamese equivalent of Bangkok - Saigon. Of course it will be full of rip offs, traffic, pollution etc. Go to Na Trang, Da Nang or Mui Ne Beaches. Awesome places. More laid back and way cheaper than many places in Thailand.

[NamKangMan]

I'm no rocket scientist, but, I'm an educated man, and, whilst I was never great at maths, I know what goes into my wallet, and what goes out of my wallet. I can tell you, more goes out of my wallet, for everything, in Phuket, than elsewhere in South East Asia. As a tourist, and now a visa runner, I know for a fact that the cost of living is cheaper in neighbouring capital cities than Phuket, and they are capital cities. PP in Cambodia - Vientiene in Laos - cheaper. Expats are running wine and cigarettes over these boarders into Thailand now. Anyway, if Phuket is not the dearest place in South East Asia, maybe you can tell me what is???? Whether it's legitimate costs being passed onto consumers, or straight out scams and rip offs - for me, it's dearer. I'm single. Maybe you have a Thai missus getting you Thai prices, but for me, and others I have spoken to, it's dearer, and continues to get more and more expensive at a rate that far exceeds the CPI increases to western income streams.

[LivinLOS]

Anyway, if Phuket is not the dearest place in South East Asia, maybe you can tell me what is????

Singapore

[steelepulse]

I'll 2nd Singapore.

[pagallim]

I'm no rocket scientist, but, I'm an educated man, and, whilst I was never great at maths, I know what goes into my wallet, and what goes out of my wallet. I can tell you, more goes out of my wallet, for everything, in Phuket, than elsewhere in South East Asia. As a tourist, and now a visa runner, I know for a fact that the cost of living is cheaper in neighbouring capital cities than Phuket, and they are capital cities. PP in Cambodia - Vientiene in Laos - cheaper. Expats are running wine and cigarettes over these boarders into Thailand now. Anyway, if Phuket is not the dearest place in South East Asia, maybe you can tell me what is???? Whether it's legitimate costs being passed onto consumers, or straight out scams and rip offs - for me, it's dearer. I'm single. Maybe you have a Thai missus getting you Thai prices, but for me, and others I have spoken to, it's dearer, and continues to get more and more expensive at a rate that far exceeds the CPI increases to western income streams.

It depends where you live in Phuket. Sure, if you live in the western tourist strip of Kata, Karon, Patong, Kamala and Bang Tao, you're going to pay premium prices for what is usually less than premium service or products. Admittedly, that has to be countered by the convenience of living close to the single guy's required 'action', so you pays your money and takes your choice. Many great places to live in Phuket, and if you're prepared to travel 10 or 15 minutes to get to the 'tourist' haunts, a better standard of living is there, with more normal 'Thai' prices. For me the biggest problem is that whilst accepting tourists are going to head for the 'bright lights', the amount of resident expats that still feel the need to be close to other expats, then take the consequence of living with tourist prices for everything, is unbelievable. The tourist places are there to be visited, not to live in.

[TaoNow]

Agree with Pagalliim.

Living in Phuket can be inexpensive and comfortable at the same time -- even for the single man.

You just need to be resourceful and patient and find the places that don't rely primarily on tourists as customers.

You don't even need Thai language to do that. Look at the places where the Thais eat and shop.

Then keep trying a variety of shops and restaurants, and stick with those places where you find good quality for a good price and friendly staff.

I have found these places in Patong, Kata, Karon, Rawai, Chalong, Phuket town (of course) and many other spots around the island.

This assumes, NamKangMan, that you do not require Western food for every meal. But if you do, I can't understand why you are in Thailand, which has perhaps the tastiest and most healthy cuisine in SE Asia.

[katabeachbum]

I'm no rocket scientist, but, I'm an educated man, and, whilst I was never great at maths, I know what goes into my wallet, and what goes out of my wallet. I can tell you, more goes out of my wallet, for everything, in Phuket, than elsewhere in South East Asia. As a tourist, and now a visa runner, I know for a fact that the cost of living is cheaper in neighbouring capital cities than Phuket, and they are capital cities. PP in Cambodia - Vientiene in Laos - cheaper. Expats are running wine and cigarettes over these boarders into Thailand now. Anyway, if Phuket is not the dearest place in South East Asia, maybe you can tell me what is???? Whether it's legitimate costs being passed onto consumers, or straight out scams and rip offs - for me, it's dearer. I'm single. Maybe you have a Thai missus getting you Thai prices, but for me, and others I have spoken to, it's dearer, and continues to get more and more expensive at a rate that far exceeds the CPI increases to western income streams.

when you say Phuket, do you actually mean Patong? Most services and food are more expensive in Patong than any other place in Thailand. McDonalds, KFC, Burger King, Starbucks, all have 20-30% higher prices in Patong than the rest of Phuket and Thailand.

More expensive than Phuket? As a frequent traveller to Malaysia, I find everything is more expensive than Phuket. a beer in supermarket start at 60 baht, 300% more than Phuket. Not to mention Singapore, even if you succeed avoiding 2pricing and achieve local prices

Edited March 24, 2010 by katabeachbum

[NamKangMan]

Absolutely agree with Singapore, but, I meant out of Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam.

[NamKangMan]

when you say Phuket, do you actually mean Patong? Most services and food are more expensive in Patong than any other place in Thailand. McDonalds, KFC, Burger King, Starbucks, all have 20-30% higher prices in Patong than the rest of Phuket and Thailand.

More expensive than Phuket? As a frequent traveller to Malaysia, I find everything is more expensive than Phuket. a beer in supermarket start at 60 baht, 300% more than Phuket. Not to mention Singapore, even if you succeed avoiding 2pricing and achieve local prices

Yes mate, I mean Patong. Being single, I enjoy some entertainment now and then. Be that bars and nightclubs, or just a movie in the cinema. I know it is a cheaper cost of living out of Patong, and off that coastal strip, however, even for the expats, those with more money than me, if the costs keep rising at the rate they have been, for no apparent reason, eventually, farang must lower their standard of lifestyle, or move to a cheaper place, to keep up that standard of lifestyle. Either way, we see an exodus of baht from the immediate Patong economy. An example would be, the OP will now buy the box of wine from the shop, rather than a glass from the restaurant.

In 2008, when the global financial crisis hit, I was in Udon Thani, on my way to Laos for a visa run. A farang bar owner had commented on how many new farang faces he had seen in town (also his bar) in the last 2 weeks. Everyone's money took a hit, so, a lot of farang went back to Issan (where it's cheaper to live) to ride out the storm because their monthly pensions/annuities could not sustain them in the south anymore.

If prices just keep going up for no reason, farang will have no choice but to move. Of course, I agree there are cheaper places on the island than Patong, but, those who are affording Patong now, may not, in the near future. Once again, for no explainable economic reason than "let's just grab more farang dollars."