Foreign Governments

[dumbnewbie]

I've been wondering who is behind the 2 factions facing off in Thailand - the Reds and Yellows. It seems to me that perhaps foreign governments (the US vs. China?) may be behind them, but I haven't followed this story closely enough to even make a good guess as to who might be behind either faction.

Anybody else think foreign governments are involved? If so, who, and who's backing who? (and why?)

[Travel2003]

I doubt it.

This is an internal matter.

Nobody wants to go back to the cold war era.

I think all other nations want this country first of all to be political stable, in the name of trade.

[lovelomsak]

I think the rest of the world is paying little attention and could care less. Who ever is in power is who they will deal with simple as that. On yahoo site hockey scores are more important than this.

[Travel2003]

I think the rest of the world is paying little attention and could care less. Who ever is in power is who they will deal with simple as that. On yahoo site hockey scores are more important than this.

Yes, as long at the country is stable.

Anyhow, regarding yahoo sport, maybe because the average hockey fan is not that interested in making Thailand (or other countries) a stable trading partners?

[dumbnewbie]

Really? I figure the cold war never really ended, it just got more complicated, with China, France/Germany, and maybe some others joining the Anglo bloc and Russians on the global chess board.

I mean, it's clear that the basic line-up hasn't changed one bit - it's still Russia and China against the West; they're the ones backing regimes such as North Korea, Iranian Mullah regime, Hugo Chavez, etc.

And it makes sense to me that the US, UK, maybe others are actively supporting the Iranian opposition in order to try to destabilize/overthrow the Mullah regime before they get nukes.

But the Thai situation isn't nearly as clear to me - maybe it really is just an internal thing and no foreign government much cares who comes out on top, but I doubt it.

[Jingthing]

No, the US is not involved. However the US is OK to deal with the Abhisit government. They would also be OK to deal with a Thaksin puppet government. Contrast that with Burma though; the US is not OK to deal with the Burmese government. So if you are hard core red, you won't like that. Reds want the world to believe their movement is the moral equivalent of the peoples struggle in Burma. However, the world completely does NOT see it that way, and they are right.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Jingthing

[dumbnewbie]

No, the US is not involved. However the US is OK to deal with the Abhisit government. They would also be OK to deal with a Thaksin puppet government.

OK, but what makes you so sure about this? I don't know whose side the US might be on - I just imagine that they must favor one faction over the other. Why wouldn't they? Everyone on Thai Visa seems to have a strong opinion about the matter, so why wouldn't the US and other governments?

Contrast that with Burma though; the US is not OK to deal with the Burmese government. So if you are hard core red, you won't like that. Reds want the world to believe their movement is the moral equivalent of the peoples struggle in Burma. However, the world completely does NOT see it that way, and they are right.

Right. But who supports the Burmese (Myanmar) government? China. And who's behind the opposition to the Myanmar junta? The Anglo bloc mostly. And this same pattern is true in country after country: Iran, North Korea, Zimbabwe, Sudan, Venezuela... not to mention Tibet and Xinjiang/East Turkestan. And I'd be very surprised if the Taliban & al Qaeda aren't getting help from China and/or Russia. Think about it - the Afghan "Mujahideen" may have bankrupted the Soviet Union over 8 years of quagmire, but they sure as hel_l didn't do it singlehandedly. They had a LOT of help from the US through Pakistan, Saudi and other parties.

So I thought - maybe foreign powers are behind the unrest in Thailand too? I'm surprised this doesn't occur to anyone else. Really? Nobody else is thinking along these lines?

[Jingthing]

I think you are barking up the wrong tree. Cheers.

[Travel2003]

No, the US is not involved. However the US is OK to deal with the Abhisit government. They would also be OK to deal with a Thaksin puppet government.

OK, but what makes you so sure about this? I don't know whose side the US might be on - I just imagine that they must favor one faction over the other. Why wouldn't they? Everyone on Thai Visa seems to have a strong opinion about the matter, so why wouldn't the US and other governments?

Contrast that with Burma though; the US is not OK to deal with the Burmese government. So if you are hard core red, you won't like that. Reds want the world to believe their movement is the moral equivalent of the peoples struggle in Burma. However, the world completely does NOT see it that way, and they are right.

Right. But who supports the Burmese (Myanmar) government? China. And who's behind the opposition to the Myanmar junta? The Anglo bloc mostly. And this same pattern is true in country after country: Iran, North Korea, Zimbabwe, Sudan, Venezuela... not to mention Tibet and Xinjiang/East Turkestan. And I'd be very surprised if the Taliban & al Qaeda aren't getting help from China and/or Russia. Think about it - the Afghan "Mujahideen" may have bankrupted the Soviet Union over 8 years of quagmire, but they sure as hel_l didn't do it singlehandedly. They had a LOT of help from the US through Pakistan, Saudi and other parties.

So I thought - maybe foreign powers are behind the unrest in Thailand too? I'm surprised this doesn't occur to anyone else. Really? Nobody else is thinking along these lines?

Please explain.

In your first post, you send out some thoughts and ask the other members to come with their thoughts.

Then you start to argue with the others opinions.

And now you throw out these conspiracy theories regarding foreign powers behind the unrest here.

Borderline Trolling.

[Pakboong]

No, the US is not involved. However the US is OK to deal with the Abhisit government. They would also be OK to deal with a Thaksin puppet government.

OK, but what makes you so sure about this? I don't know whose side the US might be on - I just imagine that they must favor one faction over the other. Why wouldn't they? Everyone on Thai Visa seems to have a strong opinion about the matter, so why wouldn't the US and other governments?

Contrast that with Burma though; the US is not OK to deal with the Burmese government. So if you are hard core red, you won't like that. Reds want the world to believe their movement is the moral equivalent of the peoples struggle in Burma. However, the world completely does NOT see it that way, and they are right.

Right. But who supports the Burmese (Myanmar) government? China. And who's behind the opposition to the Myanmar junta? The Anglo bloc mostly. And this same pattern is true in country after country: Iran, North Korea, Zimbabwe, Sudan, Venezuela... not to mention Tibet and Xinjiang/East Turkestan. And I'd be very surprised if the Taliban & al Qaeda aren't getting help from China and/or Russia. Think about it - the Afghan "Mujahideen" may have bankrupted the Soviet Union over 8 years of quagmire, but they sure as hel_l didn't do it singlehandedly. They had a LOT of help from the US through Pakistan, Saudi and other parties.

So I thought - maybe foreign powers are behind the unrest in Thailand too? I'm surprised this doesn't occur to anyone else. Really? Nobody else is thinking along these lines?

Whereas there are reasons for foreign involvement in the struggle in the south, I doubt very seriously that anybody seriously cares about this Red vs Yellow affair.

[dave30]

Ok i dont think any of the world power goverments or many other goverments really care what happens in Thailand. Thailand is not a important country on the world stage.

And please to people comparing the Red Shirts to Al Qaeda STOP. Al Qaeda are a well organized International Terriost Group. Not a load of uneducated Farmers who got payed $ 50 go to Bangkok on there motorbikes !

Edited March 15, 2010 by dave30

[bonobo]

 And I'd be very surprised if the Taliban & al Qaeda aren't getting help from China and/or Russia.  

I think you are way off here.  Both China and Russia have their own problems with Islamic minorities, and the last thing they want is to encourage either of these two groups.  This is one are in which the US, Russia, and China are pretty much in lock-step with each other.

Quite frankly, on your original question, I think most other nations just want a stable government here which will not get in the way of commerce.

[anotherpeter]

The foreign policies of both red and yellow are no different. So most governments will deal both sides.

[Godolphin]

I think it's about a lot of Thai people who are sick of a terminally corrupt system where the masses of workers and peasants are labouring for a pittance while plenty of the well-connected elite are raking in the baht in huge quantities.

Admittedly, they are wrong to extol a greedy power merchant like Thaksin but at least they can see that there is an alternative to the old regime of miltary/power-elite dominated governments.

They are badly led, naive and laughed at by the elite and its hangers-on. At least they are having a go and saying, 'what about a democracy where all people really get a say in their society like we observe in Falang countries?'

They understand enough about their society to know that change is in the air and why shouldn't it benefit all Thais and not just a lazy, privileged, military-protected and corrupt minority?

They have been systematically repressed, with civil murder on a number of occasions, and have had one military-dominated government after another, punctuated by a series of coups devised and carried out by a social caste they were once taught to obey and now are justifiably sick of.

Good luck to the poor of the Northeast and elsewhere who must have made big sacrifices to get to Bangkok. I don't condone anything violent or counter-productive but my heart is with them more than it is with the panicked, privileged elite which is so terrified of change and progress.

[britmaveric]

At the end of the day I would think most major countries could care less about what happens to 3rd world country such as Thailand whether its yellow or red has no consequence.

[whiterussian]

Thailand is being courted by China more openly, the Chinese are now running joint military exercises, much smaller than the yanks for now, but it will likely grow.

The P.L.A are coming here this year or next.

Japan now can build weapons, and may want the yanks out. Japan is still the biggest investor in Thailand as far as I know.

Korea, if unified will expel American troops - it has to unify surely??!!

Philippines dont really want the remaining yanks there.

just leaves poor old Taiwan.

The French (farangsais) have oil deals "Total S.A" with Thailand and Burma. Dont know about other transnationals. - I think their pipeline carries most of Thailands energy requirements (from Burma?)

In short, no idea. But in the long run,whoever is pally pally with China will win, now that the USA is losing its pacific influence.

But then again, the Chinese dont really mind dealing with basket case countries, but maybe they will spare their oldest trading partner.

Edited March 15, 2010 by whiterussian

[mazeltov]

No, the US is not involved. However the US is OK to deal with the Abhisit government. They would also be OK to deal with a Thaksin puppet government. Contrast that with Burma though; the US is not OK to deal with the Burmese government. So if you are hard core red, you won't like that. Reds want the world to believe their movement is the moral equivalent of the peoples struggle in Burma. However, the world completely does NOT see it that way, and they are right.

for the US it will be also okay to deal with a Junta.

funny think is that Myanmar has a government that took sides, supports Abhisit and had declared that "Myanmar won't allow Thailand's foe to use its soil"

that was at the ASEAN summit, remember? highest tension between Thailand and Cambodia, the other country who took sides. anger between Hun Sen and Abhisit, because of one evil man. and in this moment Myanmar Prime Minister Gen Thein Sein came forward with such a declaration.

that was Abhisit biggest success so far on the international stage of foreign affairs.

http://enews.mcot.net/view.php?id=12443&t=2

"the world completely" will NOT tell you how they see the reds or any other faction. NO comment.

who ever will win here, red or yellow or camouflage, the international community will maybe voice some concerns how the victory was achieved, but express their honest hope that the country can move forward and that the bilateral relations will continue and strengthen.

and the burmese generals will give a best buddies forever declaration again with lots of shake hands and smiles for the photographers.

[dumbnewbie]

 And I'd be very surprised if the Taliban & al Qaeda aren't getting help from China and/or Russia.  

I think you are way off here.  Both China and Russia have their own problems with Islamic minorities, and the last thing they want is to encourage either of these two groups.  This is one are in which the US, Russia, and China are pretty much in lock-step with each other.

The US, Russia and China in lock-step with each other against Islamist terror? I wish it were true, but I don't see it. That would mean that the Islamists are so powerful that even the 3 most powerful countries on earth working together can't beat them. I don't think that's the case. My theory is that the US, Russia and China are using different Muslim groups against each other. It started with the Islamic revolution in Iran in the late 70's - who was behind that? The Soviets. They helped Iranian leftists and Islamists topple the pro-US Shah, and Iran has been vehemently anti-American and protected by Russia and China ever since. Then there was the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1980. The US created and backed the "Mujahideen" Islamists that bankrupted the Soviet Union. If the US didn't back them, there's no way they could've fought the Soviets for 8 years, much less win. (Just like the North Korean and Vietnamese communists could never have beat the US w/out massive help from China and USSR.)

So my thinking is that the Russians must've been pretty pissed at the way things went for them in Afghanistan, so after the US pulled out and forgot about the Mujahideen, the Russians sent some spies back in there to meddle and help 2 Mujahideen factions (the Taliban and their al-Qaeda allies) take over Afghanistan, with the purpose of helping them attack the US (as on 9/11), draw the US back to Afghanistan, and then bleed us to death there financially just like we did to them in the 1980s. Otherwise I just don't see how a bunch of cavemen with AK-47s is able to keep bleeding the US & allies all these years. Who's feeding these guys? Who's providing them ammunition and IEDs and most important of all, the satellite and other intelligence and strategy to keep the West off-balance all this time? For that matter, who helped them pull off 9/11 so spectacularly? Sorry, I just don't see how a couple of beards in a cave could do that w/out some massive intelligence and strategic help from a superpower.

Who helped the Bosnian and Kosovar Muslims take down Russia's ally Yugoslavia/Greater-Serbia? The West, of course - the US and NATO allies. Remember that the US "accidentally" bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade during the war against Yugoslavia? I don't think it was an accident because the Chinese were giving satellite intelligence to the Yugoslavs - helping them kill NATO forces. The US bombed it to send a message "don't F with us", but said it was an accident to avoid a full-scale war with China (knowing full well that nobody would believe it was really an accident, for reasons anyone can easily research). Who helped the Chechen Muslims (and the Georgians and Ukrainians) weaken Russia some more? Again, I'm guessing the US, UK, etc. Who were Saddam Hussein's biggest supporters (besides France/Germany)? Again, Russia and China. Who helps the Uighur Muslim separatists in China's Xinjiang province? The US. So maybe China has something to do with the Taliban & al-Qaeda. After all, China has a border w/ Afghanistan, and is close allies with Pakistan's government (they both openly hate India and semi-secretly hate the US), which at a minimum is playing a double-game with the US, if not merely pretending to be our allies while actually siding with the Taliban & al-Qaeda. I know - now we hear that the terrorists are attacking the Pakistani government & military, but I suspect maybe these are different groups, being used by the US to topple the Pakistani government because we're fed up with their double-dealing / treachery.

But sure, maybe I'm way off. Who knows?

[dumbnewbie]

At the end of the day I would think most major countries could care less about what happens to 3rd world country such as Thailand whether its yellow or red has no consequence.

Major countries sure cared an awful lot about what happened to Vietnam and Afghanistan - so why not Thailand, which is a much more significant place in every conceivable way?

Don't mean to argue with anyone - maybe I don't come off right, but I'm just sharing my thoughts and trying to learn from yours. Cheers to all.

[dumbnewbie]

I think you are barking up the wrong tree. Cheers.

Are you calling me a dog?

[britmaveric]

Thailand is being courted by China more openly, the Chinese are now running joint military exercises, much smaller than the yanks for now, but it will likely grow.

The P.L.A are coming here this year or next.

Japan now can build weapons, and may want the yanks out. Japan is still the biggest investor in Thailand as far as I know.

Korea, if unified will expel American troops - it has to unify surely??!!

Philippines dont really want the remaining yanks there.

just leaves poor old Taiwan.

You do talk some rubbish...

Japan - will keep yanks around because of China/NKorea. Their is mutual hate there and been so for a long time. Mainland presence is growing, not shrinking.

SKorea will never unify with NKorea - why would they when they have that nutty Kim Jong-il's and his ilk? Sorry yanks will be there again.

Philippines - Yanks will still be there for Ant-Terrorism ops.

Taiwan - no change there

Thailand - no change there

Did you forget Guam, Diego Garcia, Australia, New Zealand and course a whole host of pacific islands under US territory/influence?

[dumbnewbie]

Wow.... I'm really surprised by the lack of interest.

Really? You guys never wonder about the big picture, about what's really going on behind the superficial stuff?

You think Thailand exists in some sort of vacuum and no foreign power has any interest in what happens to the place?

[thaihome]

Wow.... I'm really surprised by the lack of interest.

Really? You guys never wonder about the big picture, about what's really going on behind the superficial stuff?

You think Thailand exists in some sort of vacuum and no foreign power has any interest in what happens to the place?

Perhaps you and the poster spouting off about the Bilderberg Group could just start exchanging PM's and not actually post in the forum anymore.

TH

[Travel2003]

As already mentioned in my previous posts, I believe the OP is borderline Trolling.

[dumbnewbie]

Wow. I really don't get it. Why the hate? Is it the question, or the way it was asked, or what? It seems like a legitimate and interesting question to me. Where do you get "trolling" from? As for "conspiracy".... what - you think there are no conspiracies in this world? Everything is just as it seems? Nothing going on in the dark? Are you naive, or what? Why do you think every government has intelligence agencies?

Take Myanmar, for example. The junta there has a close relationship with the PRC government. Meanwhile, the US and UK have been trying for a long time to help dissidents topple that regime and replace it with one more friendly to the West. That situation's pretty clear. So why wouldn't some similar dynamic be going on in Thailand?

Another question - if you don't have anything constructive to add to the thread, why not just go away and not come back? Why do you have to attack me and call me names? Please explain. I don't understand people like you.

[alohatiger]

A refinement of Lesson 4:

8. NEVER CUT THE COPS OUT!

[alohatiger]

Edit: Repeated post above. Clicked twice!

Edited March 19, 2010 by alohatiger

[TheItaliann]

You miss something aloha.

Edited March 19, 2010 by TheItaliann

[dumbnewbie]

Thanks Alohatiger, for the best post yet.

Like you, I suspect the US backs the yellows, since the Thai establishment has been pro-US and pro-West in general. But China isn't pro-US, and is trying to increase it's influence everywhere, especially in neighboring Asian countries. Isn't it possible that China is backing the reds? Especially since reds have been seen wearing Mao hats (you know, the big floppy green berets w/ the big red star on the front? Like the Chinese RED Guards used to wear?). The reds are also apparently now spouting Maoist military/revolutionary strategies like "forest surrounds the city" or whatever.

Thaksin was given refuge in Cambodia, which might mean something. Is Cambodia close to China these days? I know Hun Sen was installed by the Vietnamese, so I figured Cambodia, like Laos, is still pretty much a satellite of Vietnam. Vietnam hates Thailand for supporting the US during the Vietnam war. At that time Vietnam was supporting communist insurgents in Thailand. Also at that time, Vietnam and China were close allies, so China was also supporting the Thai communists.

I wonder if the "reds" have any link to the old Thai communist movement. It would seem likely, as they're from the same region and chose the color red...

Then again, all the "color revolutions" around the world in recent years have been US/Western creations, to liberate countries from the Russian sphere of influence... Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Georgia, Iran...

Again, truly amazed that this topic isn't of interest to more people. Flabbergasted, actually. To me it's the most obvious and interesting question.