Four M-79 Grenades Fired Into A Battalion In Bangkok, Injuring 2 Soldiers

[michaelj]

Both the army and the government have spent the past month furiously spinning to build a sense of panic and impending bloodshed in anticipation of the Reds coming to town.

Said Reds have peacefully and somewhat joyfully mounted the largest-ever protest by rural Thais in fortress Krung Thep, often with cheering and waving from local angels.

It is the army and the government who stand to lose face if the evil demons from the north don't start in with a little Mad Max.

There are factions within the Military-Royalist establishment who would like an excuse for another coup and an opportunity to demonstrate the lengths to which the Reds will go to cause trouble.

How hard is it to see what they have to gain by setting this up?

[Netfan]

Don't these idiots realize that most of the soldiers are just poor kids from the sticks?

My assumption would be (please note that was an ASSUMPTION, which is the same as an OPINION, not a FACT) that this is done by provocateurs trying to get the Army to react against the Red Shirts. The question then becomes whether or not the Army CARES who fired the shots.

The Reds, and Thailand are lucky there is a level-headed PM in charge - sort of like Kennedy during Cuban Missile Crisis. Other wise this could have already been a very bad scene.

[paulandmaneerat]

If the guy they caught says he was hired by the reds to do it, then the yellows did it. If he says he was hired by the yellows then ... well, you get the idea.

P&M

[jdinasia]

What benefit would the yellow get from this ?

a) Governement declare state of emergency

All reds are arrested

c) The public opinion turns against the red

End of the story

Morality

It could be anyone , so if you dont know you dont know . Until there is an enquiry ...

Ummm let's work that one out again .... Violence , being the last thing the government or the yellows want (2 distinct groups)

The government wouldn't want to declare a state of emergency (if they did they could have done it solely on Sae Daeng and Arisman's threats and the weapons found.)

Why? The yellows achieved their goal of getting rid of Thaksin. Violence on a large scale will bring down this government. Thaksin'sonly chance at getting white-washed is to get a pro-Thaksin government in place.

The yellows don't want to risk that and there is over a year before new elections. The government wants to keep power while they build support for them and their policies and undermine Thaksin's political machine in Isaan and the North.

Your quiant concept of all reds getting arrested is more than just a bit laughable, but worse is I think you believe it which is sad. (How do you arrest 100,000+ in BKK alone --- and untold 1000's upcountry?)

Public opinion is already against the reds though them getting that violent AGAIN would certainly lose them even more support from many people, that is of course, unless they win.

[jdinasia]

BTW -- the folks saying this is someone other than the reds are completely ignoring the red's threats and the threat they had just made that if they were not admitted into the army base they would force their way in!

[TAWP]

Interesting after everybody and every car is searched for weapons that arms get through so easy like this, even near at the alleged tollway. Nobody controlled there? Or do we have an army insider job in high ranks?

Several tweets from both sides if the aisle talk about the road-checks not doing any deep search of the vehicles at all. So no, it would not be difficult to get them in if wanted.

[scorecard]

Don't these idiots realize that most of the soldiers are just poor kids from the sticks?

That's probably why they were targeted. We shouldn't immediately assume this was the work of Red Shirts.

so did Hello Kitty or Mickey Mouse do it? Dude....c'mon

if it: looks, sounds, smells, and tastes red....betcha it is

Did the Red Shirts do it? Did government agents do it trying to blame it on the Red Shirts? Did Thaksin shoot it? There are myriad possibilities including one that plagues militaries the world over. NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE. This is not an issue that happens at go go bars or soapie massages. It is an incident in which a soldier negligently fires his weapon that may or may not cause injury or death. The Thai military still uses M 79 grenade launchers. The Thai military is not the most professional or well trained force in the world. It is a conscripted military that does not want to be there. rather than bickering and making accusations like a bipolar chronically PMSing woman why not wait for the facts. Just my 2 cents. If you think I am full of it, continue making wild accusations and firing each other up.

And maybe the som tum lady didn't know it was under her cart and she stepped on it and it went off, and just by an amazing coincidence the projectile flew into the army barracks, just like that.

[michaelj]

Public opinion is already against the reds though them getting that violent AGAIN would certainly lose them even more support from many people, that is of course, unless they win.

With "public opinion" running against the Reds, one might expect Abhisit to call an election, which really is little more than a poll of "public opinion", no?

Or maybe you mean by "public" the Bangkok middle classes? That oh-so important 3% of the Thai population?

[OZEMADE]

If the guy they caught says he was hired by the reds to do it, then the yellows did it. If he says he was hired by the yellows then ... well, you get the idea.

P&M

He was let go no residue in his car.

[personchester]

Don't these idiots realize that most of the soldiers are just poor kids from the sticks?

They are not idiots, they are acting under instruction from their leaders, should the poor army kids get orders from their leaders (commanders) to open fire at the Red Shirts then they too will have to do so, it is obvious that during those street protests the same social classes have to confront each other.

However, for the government to be silient and do nothing during those mass street protests is entirely wrong, the PM should show some guts and gumption, he should come out and address the Red Shirts Churchillian style, explaining to them that their current activities will achieve nothing, except blood, toil, tears, and sweat, and then state and clarify in detail his political vision for Thailand, then predict and ensure them that the result of his political activities will be positive for the whole of Thailand's population.

Such a speech would positively reflect to the advantage of all Thais in particular those from the sticks, and the political climate in Thailand would be softend which will of course benefit the whole Nation.

Ummm, I believe the Prime Minister was one of those who a Red Leader said was "marked on the forehead". Why should he expose himself to that kind of threat? And remember, the Reds attacked his car last April, tried to kill his driver. The Reds top leadership has continually said if they don't get their way they will turn violent. Looks like they have started. Sad, very sad.

Yes, very sad indeed, But the duty of the PM is to manage the country and not leave it to the army and the police, of course his personal security is vital but that should not prevent him from addressing the protesters in such an emergency, his personal bodygards do know how to protect him and would no doubt take the necessary precaution, however, if that is not doable then he should address the Red-Shirts from a secure spot, but he must deal with the current situation in order to get matters sorted peacefully, since disaster, as we have heard, is already around the corner.

Edited March 15, 2010 by personchester

[Jirapa]

Public opinion is already against the reds though them getting that violent AGAIN would certainly lose them even more support from many people, that is of course, unless they win.

With "public opinion" running against the Reds, one might expect Abhisit to call an election, which really is little more than a poll of "public opinion", no?

Or maybe you mean by "public" the Bangkok middle classes? That oh-so important 3% of the Thai population?

IT'S NOT THE REDS UNTIL IT"S PROVEN! Even the Army don't think it's them so who are these ferang pointing the finger when even those attacked aren't doing so. Get your posse on their ponies and ride off into the sunset as there ain't gonna be a linching tonight!

Edited March 15, 2010 by Jirapa

[michaelj]

My point was simply that "public opinion" is NOT against the Reds, if all of Thailand gets counted in the "public".

I don't have a horse.

Just a high donkey I get up on now and again.

[anotherpeter]

Yes, very sad indeed, But the duty of the PM is to manage the country and not leave it to the army and the police, of course his personal security is vital but that should not prevent him from addressing the protesters in such an emergency, his personal bodygards do know how to protect him and would no doubt take the necessary precaution, however, if that is not doable then he should address the Red-Shirts from a secure spot, but he must deal with the current situation in order to get matters sorted peacefully, since disaster, as we have heard, is already around the corner.

1) Do you know any political leaders in the world that would go up in front of a big opposition crowd?

2) He did address them on television today.

[ballpoint]

Both the army and the government have spent the past month furiously spinning to build a sense of panic and impending bloodshed in anticipation of the Reds coming to town.

Said Reds have peacefully and somewhat joyfully mounted the largest-ever protest by rural Thais in fortress Krung Thep, often with cheering and waving from local angels.

It is the army and the government who stand to lose face if the evil demons from the north don't start in with a little Mad Max.

There are factions within the Military-Royalist establishment who would like an excuse for another coup and an opportunity to demonstrate the lengths to which the Reds will go to cause trouble.

How hard is it to see what they have to gain by setting this up?

And that's why, as soon as it happened, we saw the army come charging out of the barracks, crushing the red shirts and taking control of the country? What? They didn't? Pretty hard to justify what you just wrote then isn't it? The best outcome for the government is for the reds to protest peacefully and go home.

[OzMick]

"Did the Red Shirts do it? Did government agents do it trying to blame it on the Red Shirts? Did Thaksin shoot it? There are myriad possibilities including one that plagues militaries the world over. NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE. This is not an issue that happens at go go bars or soapie massages. It is an incident in which a soldier negligently fires his weapon that may or may not cause injury or death. The Thai military still uses M 79 grenade launchers. The Thai military is not the most professional or well trained force in the world. It is a conscripted military that does not want to be there. rather than bickering and making accusations like a bipolar chronically PMSing woman why not wait for the facts. Just my 2 cents. If you think I am full of it, continue making wild accusations and firing each other up."

4 explosions and 2 unexploded shells, that's one hel-l of a AD!!! oh, hang on, witnesses saw the shots fired from a car on an overpass. Great theory though.

[Grey11]

I just had a very articulate Thai women in my store who is very anti-Thaksin and has never had anything good to say about the redshirts. She feels that the protesters in Bangkok have conducted themselves so well this weekend that they are making a real case for themselves with Thais that were against them before.

Let us hope that no one has ruined all of that.

The BBC is giving mostly a one-sided pro-Red coverage of the Reds intent to overthrow the government. It is surprising what the BBC is LEAVING OUT of the events. The BBC coverage is in essence saying that the Reds are seeking a vote and implying that Thailand's present government is a dictatorship. But, then what can we expect from a country that has given safe haven to every convicted Thai criminal who flees the country?

You don't know what your talking about. What Thai criminal is being looked after in the UK ?. Where is your proof for us to read. Forget Thaksin, he was thrown out, who else ?.

You English are getting a bit sensitive aren't you? lol

[onenoise]

An isolated act of violence, with minimal consequences, is not likely to create the chaos Thaksin needs to achieve is goals. But, viewed from the other side, trows discredit on the reds who succesfully managed to stay pacific so fair, thus gaining the sympathy of a part of the population. And the absence of reaction of the army will get them the reputation of "good boys" by ignoring the provocation. After all, why so many grenade launcher parts seized within hours of the rally ? Just an opinion. Could be also reds aiming badly...

[michaelj]

And that's why, as soon as it happened, we saw the army come charging out of the barracks, crushing the red shirts and taking control of the country? What? They didn't? Pretty hard to justify what you just wrote then isn't it? The best outcome for the government is for the reds to protest peacefully and go home.

I think both the Thai military and my point are a bit more subtle than you seem to think.

It's Monday night. There has been a 3-day carnival. Now things are starting to go BOOM.

Tomorrow is another day.

If the people who want to see this thing blow up keep upping the ante, I suspect the Reds will cut their losses and go home.

They are the more reasonable group after all, having yet to trash their nation's economy by seizing an airport or spitting on constitutional procedure by occupying Government House. Plus they are ethically and politically in the right by any liberal-democratic measure.

Edited March 15, 2010 by michaelj

[jdinasia]

And that's why, as soon as it happened, we saw the army come charging out of the barracks, crushing the red shirts and taking control of the country? What? They didn't? Pretty hard to justify what you just wrote then isn't it? The best outcome for the government is for the reds to protest peacefully and go home.

I think both the Thai military and my point are a bit more subtle than you seem to think.

It's Monday night. There has been a 3-day carnival. Now things are starting to go BOOM.

Tomorrow is another day.

If the people who want to see this thing blow up keep upping the ante, I suspect the Reds will cut their losses and go home.

They are the more reasonable group after all, having yet to trash their nation's economy by seizing an airport or spitting on constitutional procedure by occupying Government House. Plus they are ethically and politically in the right by any liberal-democratic measure.

I suggest that you look at the drop after last year's Songkran riots. Your assertion that they are either etically or politically right is absurd. The fact that their leadership has openly called for mass violence and some have directly participated in similar violence in the name of the reds certainly proves you are wrong.

[OzMick]

For a largely conscript army, the Thai military have shown remarkable restraint and discipline. After standing around all of a hot day in riot gear, some a-hole opens up on you with a M-79, and remember this a quite short-range weapon, the temptation to pop off a few in his direction would be very strong. It takes a while to launch 6 grenades, and the M-79 makes a very distinctive noise. I'd be very surprised if there wasn't at least one rifleman/sniper with his sights on.

Of course, now we'll get a theory that the reason they didn't fire back was because it was one of them pretending to be a red - cobblers.

[Ulysses G.]

I suggest that you look at the drop after last year's Songkran riots.

What utter nonsense. Tourism ALWAYS takes a big dive after Songkran. It is the end of the tourist season.

Talk about a Spinmeister. Some people should be ashamed!

[jdinasia]

Year on Year George ... year on year

[michaelj]

I suggest that you look at the drop after last year's Songkran riots. Your assertion that they are either etically or politically right is absurd. The fact that their leadership has openly called for mass violence and some have directly participated in similar violence in the name of the reds certainly proves you are wrong.

I guess the Dems missed the "drop" too. Otherwise they'd've called a snap election.

And I did say by any liberal-democratic measure. How, say, a Falangist might view it is another question altogether.

[landofthefree]

The BBC and Economist magazine both have a recent history of ignoring some of the realities and interpreting the long running issues surrounding Taksin as a simplePoor vs Elites.

The BBC is giving mostly a one-sided pro-Red coverage of the Reds intent to overthrow the government. It is surprising what the BBC is LEAVING OUT of the events. The BBC coverage is in essence saying that the Reds are seeking a vote and implying that Thailand's present government is a dictatorship. But, then what can we expect from a country that has given safe haven to every convicted Thai criminal who flees the country?

This is not true. I have just read the report on the BBCs website and it put both sides point of view accross and is factually completely correct. I wish the Thaksin hating posters on this site would recognize reality when they see it. The BBC is not the Nation newspaper and instead has a great history of impartiality and honest reporting. Sorry they didn't print the usual Thaksin red shirt hatred that the Nation has been spouting out for weeks.

[Ulysses G.]

Year on Year George ... year on year

Certain posters endless, anti-red propoganda posts? Agreed!

[landofthefree]

Don't these idiots realize that most of the soldiers are just poor kids from the sticks?

My assumption would be (please note that was an ASSUMPTION, which is the same as an OPINION, not a FACT) that this is done by provocateurs trying to get the Army to react against the Red Shirts. The question then becomes whether or not the Army CARES who fired the shots.

The Reds, and Thailand are lucky there is a level-headed PM in charge - sort of like Kennedy during Cuban Missile Crisis. Other wise this could have already been a very bad scene.

A level headed PM ......in charge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You, my friend, have no idea about Thai politics! Abhisit is as much in charge as Pinnochio was (another puppet)

[jdinasia]

Year on Year George ... year on year

Certain posters endless, anti-red propoganda posts? Agreed!

and again a series of oneliners from the UG ... You've been watching FOX far too much!

I assume that George is not actually asserting that numbers didn't drop of radically after the red's riots last Songkran (compared to other Songkrans). He just needs to try and save some face for Thaksin.

[michaelj]

I assume that George is not actually asserting that numbers didn't drop of radically after the red's riots last Songkran (compared to other Songkrans). He just needs to try and save some face for Thaksin.

Sorry, I thought you were referring to a drop in popular support for the UDD/Peua Thai grouping, because that would have been to the point in a discussion related to liberal-democratic values.

[neverdie]

Year on Year George ... year on year

Certain posters endless, anti-red propoganda posts? Agreed!

and again a series of oneliners from the UG ... You've been watching FOX far too much!

I assume that George is not actually asserting that numbers didn't drop of radically after the red's riots last Songkran (compared to other Songkrans). He just needs to try and save some face for Thaksin.

I'd take UG's one liners every day over some of the other crap being spewed upon this forum by the same one way thinkers, day in day out

[Ulysses G.]

and again a series of oneliners from the UG ...

You have pointed that out numerous times, but one line is often more than enough to point out all dishonest posts that some people are continually providing.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Ulysses G.