Red Shirts Blood Campaign Is Dangerous : Health Groups

[mrtoad]

5. This is why I ask again, what peaceful alternatives are there to this symbolic gesture of blood spilling?

Well, I am finished playing games with you. Maybe someone else wants to play. To repeat, there is NOTHING peaceful they can do right now to get their demands, except wait for the next election. This is clear to rational people.

This blood spilling gesture is not symbolic, it is imbecilic. I can't believe that there are still some posters here who see it as symbolic, considering the potential health risks - and thats not counting the moral and ethical points.

Edited March 16, 2010 by mrtoad

[Gonzo the Face]

To All out there, whether you are Red Shirt, Yellow Shirt , blue or whatever color.

Take a step back, take a deep breath, and try to see things with the eyes of the outside world for just a minute or so.

No , No, don't pizz , moan and start bitching....

Try just try.

As seen from the outside world:

* The number one leader of this group , like it or not is Khun Thaksin,,,,,

He begs, borrows and pleads for all Thai's to bring your families to Bkk , suffer the hardship and protest for the good of democracy.

** As we have seen that is for your family not his . They are all reported in Montenegro , at a plush hotel , having a cake and coffee party, but still good followers, you go on my behalf and put you and yours in harms way, I and mine will be here if you need me. [???]

* Thailand reportedly has a total population on the above side of 60,000,000 persons. Read 60 Million Persons...

** Those who believe enough in the Red Shirt Cause and who are willing to go protest, paid or not are arguably 100,000 . Read 100 Thousand..... or we should probably to state correctly at the height of the protest.

*** Democracy, the Redshirts say, is that the 100,000 should demand the government of the remainder of the 60,000,000 should be scrapped and the constitution thrown out. Just to make it clear..... the 100,000 is speaking and demanding for the 60,000,000. That's what is beings called for in Red Shirt Democracy.

It would appear that some good, non selfish brain power is missing in the upper ranks of this leadership brain trust.

And now the promotion and marketing epitome of the year, if not of all time....How to win over the hearts and minds of .....

BLOODGATE

The brain trust has concluded that it would be in the best interest of the movement, if those remaining and those who have not had their eyes opened to reality, that we should gather from all those here, millions of cc's of our precious life source, OUR BLOOD, and splatter and throw it over selected locations chosen by our brain trust. This will impress the world..... WILL IT REALLY ??

Make an impression, no doubt, but thinking just a little further...... make an impression , POSITIVE or NEGATIVE, for the movement.

Upon the announcement of this brainstorm, consider the Yea's and or the No's, the plus' and the minus's of the following:

* A number , of those still not to worn out to think clearly, and who are not the best friends with a needle, said enough is enough ...... I'm going home,,,, I've done my part. Not too good for the movement, I would think.

** What about the life, limb and health ramifications of this adventure....

*** The potential to pass on the HIV Virus, by careless or accidental, needle use.

**** The possibility of improper administration of the blood extraction causing an air embolism leading to death..... Always a possibility

*****The daily heat factor and the stench that will be caused.

...... And there are more considerations.....

What about the people living in these affected areas, whose daily lives and livelihood is being disrupted? Does this new type democracy not take their daily lives into consideration? Their daily bread birthed by their day to day sales, like in little food stalls/shops. What about the difficulty had by many with just trying to get to and from their place of work. Through their not wishing to participate in this protest, isn't this democracy being forced on them..... Not most democratic I would think.

Just the story of the bloodletting, getting media coverage around the world , do the protest leaders seriously thing the mass of the outside world is saying, "oh what a great idea?" Somehow I think not...

I would say this latest blood performance lost more people from the inside the movement , than it gained through winning hearts and minds of those on the outside.

The same concept if it had to be done at all, in the following manner , could have been marketed to the world and , I say, gained new members and won over many more hearts and minds if done in the following way.

Red leaders should have revved up their charges and then requested them to give blood to the blood banks, or the Red Cross, and who would have surely given the go ahead to the pros to extract the blood in sanitary and much safer [to all] conditions.

Then an amount of blood, equal to that blood given, could have been purchased or donated by a believer from a local butcher shop and symbolically splashed around if need be.

I think this would have gained a lot more respect for the movement , world wide, both inside and outside the movement, then the present example of stupidity....

The method in which it is being done only goes to put on international display the self centered-ness and "me first " mind set of some of these Red Shirt leaders. [iMO read most]

Lets get back to thinking of the good of the country and its people in total, not the good of the few, 100,000 making demands of the many, 60,000,000.

I would say that this would be much more democratic then the few mandating what is to be to the masses....

JOMHO

[ovaltina]

International condemnation of this insanity needs to come out.

This last 4 days anytime I've seen headlines BBC-uk / Cnn / etc. it is stuff like "David Beckham has hurt his ankle, in depth discussion and photos of ankles.", and " is David Cameron's wife a bit posh?" etc. Just the occasional 10-second mention of theres thousands of people trying to overthrow the government in Bkk. My only conclusion from this was a very despondent one ; Western media has consigned Thailand to the failed-state bin years ago & now its just ''oh look those chaps are at it again, yawn". It is really really tragic.

[scorecard]

5. This is why I ask again, what peaceful alternatives are there to this symbolic gesture of blood spilling?

Well, I am finished playing games with you. Maybe someone else wants to play. To repeat, there is NOTHING peaceful they can do right now to get their demands, except wait for the next election. This is clear to rational people.

Okay. For lack of any other peaceful alternatives, we can only conclude that this symbolic gesture is rather original and creative, and certainly bound to create a lot of publicity to get tongues talking. Hopefully there are other suitable alternatives for peaceful demonstration still available for tomorrow.

"Original and creative". Idiotic and irresponsible might be more appropriate words.

[Jingthing]

Its like a circle jerk, with blood. Bravo, reds!

Actually, this is really good news. The Thaksinistas are self destructing, without violence. It is hard to imagine a more dramatic defeat for the reds than the outcome of this 1/10 of a million man march. The blood will be thrown, the world will vomit, Thaksin goes back to Dubai on Friday (instead of a triumphant return to Bangkok) ...

Edited March 16, 2010 by Jingthing

[mrtoad]

Its like a circle jerk, with blood. Bravo, reds!

But the biggest tosser is not contributing as he's eating cake in Montenegro.

[anotherpeter]

From webfacts recent post

Protest leaders have announced 500,000 cc of blood has been collected. World record?

10 cc each, which means they have collected blood from 50,000 people!!!

THE NATION: To our knowledge, there r only a few dozens medical personnel for the bloody job. Each "collection" took 3-5 mins. pls help me with the math

If they had 50 people collecting the blood and managed to complete the operation in less than one minute (god help them), it would have taken 16 hours, but if each is taking 3-5 minutes, with half that many collectors...

With 100 collectors

100,000 protestors

4 minutes per collection

100,000 / 100 x 4 = 4000 minutes = 66 hours

reduce that to 20,000 protestors = about 13 hours

and they started at 8am ... so that's now 5 hours ... so they should be finished by 9pm tonight and assuming no breaks

now they will have a bit over 1/3 their total ... 10 cc (cl) per person ... 6,000 people done ... should have 600 litres already

EDIT: That should be enough for their "symbolic" protest shouldn't it ... they can stop now.

Edited March 16, 2010 by anotherpeter

[SeanMoran]

Its like a circle jerk, with blood. Bravo, reds!

Actually, this is really good news. The Thaksinistas are self destructing, without violence. It is hard to imagine a more dramatic defeat for the reds than the outcome of this 1/10 of a million man march. The blood will be thrown, the world will vomit, Thaksin goes back to Dubai on Friday (instead of a triumphant return to Bangkok) ...

This is not the most dramatic defeat possible. I'm sure you can imagine outcomes with greater blood-letting if you honestly put your mind to it.

[termad]

Isn't it obvious that spilling blood in this manner is a symbolic gesture. It's a demonstration of unity and brotherhood, like an oath of allegiance taken for a united purpose.

There are gestures that make sense, and then those that are irrational.

This is the latter with out doubt. Desperation to make some kind of point.

Even if this hurts the peripheral causes more than it saves the leaders face.

So,

you are saying large scale mass blood oaths are still a good thing in the age of HIV and AIDS?

Sorry, it is not.

I'm not aware of any blood oaths being taken. Where did you get that one from?

Abhisit made the statement that he would not walk over the peoples blood to get to work. The blood is to be splashed over the entry to government house to show he lies. It is a symbolic gesture but good for the anti Abhisit/Elite in that it will generate International coverage.

Nobody will be carrying blood filled syringes as suggested in somebody's lunatic comment above.

I have not seen any very young children giving blood but I have seen some very happy young boys doing so. The drawing of even the tiny amount of blood involved is supervised by doctors and trained medical staff.

Edited March 16, 2010 by termad

[saintofsilence]

Isn't it obvious that spilling blood in this manner is a symbolic gesture. It's a demonstration of unity and brotherhood, like an oath of allegiance taken for a united purpose.

There are gestures that make sense, and then those that are irrational.

This is the latter with out doubt. Desperation to make some kind of point.

Even if this hurts the peripheral causes more than it saves the leaders face.

So,

you are saying large scale mass blood oaths are still a good thing in the age of HIV and AIDS?

Sorry, it is not.

I'm not aware of any blood oaths being taken. Where did you get that one from?

Abhisit made the statement that he would not walk over the peoples blood to get to work. The blood is to be splashed over the entry to government house to show he lies. It is a symbolic gesture but good for the anti Abhisit/Elite in that it will generate International coverage.

Nobody will be carrying blood filled syringes as suggested in somebody's lunatic comment above.

they carry grenades so why do you think they wont carry syringes ?

[elcent]

I like your post Gonzo the Face

I wonder if Thaksin will eat a yellow cake with red tipping today?

[Jingthing]

Its like a circle jerk, with blood. Bravo, reds!

Actually, this is really good news. The Thaksinistas are self destructing, without violence. It is hard to imagine a more dramatic defeat for the reds than the outcome of this 1/10 of a million man march. The blood will be thrown, the world will vomit, Thaksin goes back to Dubai on Friday (instead of a triumphant return to Bangkok) ...

This is not the most dramatic defeat possible. I'm sure you can imagine outcomes with greater blood-letting if you honestly put your mind to it.

You don't get it. If there were defeated violently there would be sympathy for them. By defeating themselves through stupidity, that is humiliation of the highest order, and without a doubt a huge setback for their cause.

[anotherpeter]

I'm not aware of any blood oaths being taken. Where did you get that one from?

Abhisit made the statement that he would not walk over the peoples blood to get to work. The blood is to be splashed over the entry to government house to show he lies. It is a symbolic gesture but good for the anti Abhisit/Elite in that it will generate International coverage.

Nobody will be carrying blood filled syringes as suggested in somebody's lunatic comment above.

"It is a symbolic gesture ... that will generate international coverage"

But will it actually do anything for them here?

[SeanMoran]

Isn't it obvious that spilling blood in this manner is a symbolic gesture. It's a demonstration of unity and brotherhood, like an oath of allegiance taken for a united purpose.

There are gestures that make sense, and then those that are irrational.

This is the latter with out doubt. Desperation to make some kind of point.

Even if this hurts the peripheral causes more than it saves the leaders face.

So,

you are saying large scale mass blood oaths are still a good thing in the age of HIV and AIDS?

Sorry, it is not.

I'm not aware of any blood oaths being taken. Where did you get that one from?

Abhisit made the statement that he would not walk over the peoples blood to get to work. The blood is to be splashed over the entry to government house to show he lies. It is a symbolic gesture but good for the anti Abhisit/Elite in that it will generate International coverage.

Nobody will be carrying blood filled syringes as suggested in somebody's lunatic comment above.

they carry grenades so why do you think they wont carry syringes ?

And NUKES! Don't forget the NUKES! They all got them darned nucular bombs in their pockets too!

I'm sure that many here will find evidence of all these dastardly contraptions somewhere on the Internet to support their misunderstandings.

[mrtoad]

I'm not aware of any blood oaths being taken. Where did you get that one from?

Abhisit made the statement that he would not walk over the peoples blood to get to work. The blood is to be splashed over the entry to government house to show he lies. It is a symbolic gesture but good for the anti Abhisit/Elite in that it will generate International coverage.

Nobody will be carrying blood filled syringes as suggested in somebody's lunatic comment above.

I have not seen any very young children giving blood but I have seen some very happy young boys doing so. The drawing of even the tiny amount of blood involved is supervised by doctors and trained medical staff.

Are you trying to justify this as an acceptable form of protest? Are you suggesting that the medical staff are working under their code of conduct or ethics? Please spare me.

Edited March 16, 2010 by mrtoad

[zirc]

International condemnation of this insanity needs to come out.

This last 4 days anytime I've seen headlines BBC-uk / Cnn / etc. it is stuff like "David Beckham has hurt his ankle, in depth discussion and photos of ankles.", and " is David Cameron's wife a bit posh?" etc. Just the occasional 10-second mention of theres thousands of people trying to overthrow the government in Bkk. My only conclusion from this was a very despondent one ; Western media has consigned Thailand to the failed-state bin years ago & now its just ''oh look those chaps are at it again, yawn". It is really really tragic.

I understand. Still, it only took a minute or two for me to send it to them.

Hopefully, they will post it and hopefully, again, others will see it. BBC has world-wide exposure.

The world needs to be aware of the unethical medical practitioners participating in this nonsense and the abuse of children taking place.

I realize it's a small bit I do, but it is something.

Edited March 16, 2010 by zirc

[PoorSucker]

It is already creating a lot of publicity. Bad publicity. People all over the world are laughing at Thailand now. Kudos, Khun Thaksin. Within Thailand, you can feel the backlash growing against the irrational red shirts. The idea of this group ruling this country is scary now to the majority, and with good reason.

Not to worry, tomorrow they will claim the donors were PAD members infiltrating.

[elcent]

... and don't forget Montenegro was home to Dracula. Now again ...

search Google for Dracu in Montenegro (I have chosen Dracu since this is a name commonly used in that region.)

[anotherpeter]

And NUKES! Don't forget the NUKES! They all got them darned nucular bombs in their pockets too!

I'm sure that many here will find evidence of all these dastardly contraptions somewhere on the Internet to support their misunderstandings.

I don't believe you Sean. I haven't read anything about that in The Nation. I will only believe it if I read it there.

[paulandmaneerat]

Everybody is missing the point of this 'blood' exercise. Every 'million' prophecy they reds have made so far has fallen short. But this time they will exceed expectations. There will be one billion flies attracted to the hot coagulating blood. See, they were right after all!

P&M

[SeanMoran]

And NUKES! Don't forget the NUKES! They all got them darned nucular bombs in their pockets too!

I'm sure that many here will find evidence of all these dastardly contraptions somewhere on the Internet to support their misunderstandings.

I don't believe you Sean. I haven't read anything about that in The Nation. I will only believe it if I read it there.

Okay then I confess! I was typing one-handed at the time, just trying to fit in with the crowd here.

[mrtoad]

And NUKES! Don't forget the NUKES! They all got them darned nucular bombs in their pockets too!

I'm sure that many here will find evidence of all these dastardly contraptions somewhere on the Internet to support their misunderstandings.

I don't believe you Sean. I haven't read anything about that in The Nation. I will only believe it if I read it there.

Think Sean has already had his quota of Chang for the day.

[anotherpeter]

And NUKES! Don't forget the NUKES! They all got them darned nucular bombs in their pockets too!

I'm sure that many here will find evidence of all these dastardly contraptions somewhere on the Internet to support their misunderstandings.

I don't believe you Sean. I haven't read anything about that in The Nation. I will only believe it if I read it there.

Okay then I confess! I was typing one-handed at the time, just trying to fit in with the crowd here.

Try opening your other eye. Then you see both hands to type with.

If that works for you, pass it on to some others here.

[Cayenne]

Its like a circle jerk, with blood. Bravo, reds!

Actually, this is really good news. The Thaksinistas are self destructing, without violence. It is hard to imagine a more dramatic defeat for the reds than the outcome of this 1/10 of a million man march. The blood will be thrown, the world will vomit, Thaksin goes back to Dubai on Friday (instead of a triumphant return to Bangkok) ...

This is not the most dramatic defeat possible. I'm sure you can imagine outcomes with greater blood-letting if you honestly put your mind to it.

You don't get it. If there were defeated violently there would be sympathy for them. By defeating themselves through stupidity, that is humiliation of the highest order, and without a doubt a huge setback for their cause.

Yeah, the reds are their own worse enemy. All the government needs to do now is just play it cool.

Up next: the reds will announce that they will cut off their own feet to pelt at government officials.

[mazeltov]

There are 1000 cc's or 100ml in one liter. 1 million cc's = 1000 liters. The average adult human has 5 liters or 5000cc's of blood, so 10 cc's is about .2% of an adult's blood.

In comparison, blood donation usually takes about 200-500 liters.

i will not argue, but i think you got something wrong, and i am out of coffee, makes me to lazy to think in numbers too.

100cc and 1000 ml are one liter or not? 1cc=10ml?

and for a donation is it 200ml-500ml = 0,2-0,5 liter per person? (small heineken has 0,33l or 330ml)

the idea is pretty much stupid, but how far i had understand the logistic behind to get that 1000 liter it will be more likely that not everybody of the 100.000 protesters gives a tiny spoonful of blood, but more that some volunteers give the amount of blood what would had given in a normal donation procedure. probably until they have some impressive amount. maybe like 500/1000/2000 people donating, but not all.

the 1.000.000 ml =100.000 cc= 1000 liter is just a symbolic number.

it is bizarre for me, shows me one more time how much different and totally distinct this world is from all the things that i know.

did they get this idea ad hoc or is there some reference in the nations cultural memory?

the national anthem has some blood rhetoric but for the post-modern-ignorant-me it is almost an empty meaning, just a phrase. is there some old mythology, legend, saga, national epos, whatever that included a similar ritual that they try to re-enact?

or are they trying in an experimental mood to develop a totally new form of protest?

we should also not forget that there wasn't a year '68 in Thailand and the tula 73 & 76 events something what got taught at school, comes in the history channel are that there are a wide range of books available. in the west you have demonstrations all day and its common business protesters, rioters, unions, peaceniks, radicals and the police have developed their rituals and everybody knows how mass march dynamics works.

In Thailand the society is in a learning stage, how to express themselves via rallies. a trial and error process. for team yellow it was also something new what they did. such civil movements are new for thailand and thai people. how to bring conflicts on the street only crowds of rowdy teenagers have an established tradition of their bloody brawls.

how silly that blood thingy sounds, i am asking myself how would i react or think about it if some clerics in Tibet would stage such a show or some mass protesters in one of the satellite states of the USSR 30 years ago during the commie times. something where i have more distance to it, be more detached, can look at it as an observer from outside.

some thoughts, clueless.

bloooooaddd? <deleted>

[Soutpeel]

There will be one billion flies attracted to the hot coagulating blood. See, they were right after all!

Black pudding anyone ??....

[Tigs]

My Sister in law is a senior nurse in Thailand. She is currently stood in front of the TV with us, absolutely aghast at the scenes of blood collecting. The legal age in Thailand for giving blood (of any amount) , unless it is for a medical test for suspected illnessis 15 years old, the maximum age is 60. In terms of the 11 year old, three lots of people have broken the law, the organisers for encouraging it, the parents for agreeing and the Dr or Nurse who has taken it. Non of the Dr's or Nurses can be insured for anything they are doing today

[ovaltina]

International condemnation of this insanity needs to come out.

This last 4 days anytime I've seen headlines BBC-uk / Cnn / etc. it is stuff like "David Beckham has hurt his ankle, in depth discussion and photos of ankles.", and " is David Cameron's wife a bit posh?" etc. Just the occasional 10-second mention of theres thousands of people trying to overthrow the government in Bkk. My only conclusion from this was a very despondent one ; Western media has consigned Thailand to the failed-state bin years ago & now its just ''oh look those chaps are at it again, yawn". It is really really tragic.

I understand. Still, it only took a minute or two for me to send it to them.

Hopefully, they will post it and hopefully, again, others will see it. BBC has world-wide exposure.

The world needs to be aware of the unethical medical practitioners participating in this nonsense and the abuse of children taking place.

I realize it's a small bit I do, but it is something.

I think your efforts are truly admirable, and to be applauded by all sides. It is a shame that such cool-headed compassion & intelligence is not the fashion these days in the streets.

I am, as I have mentioned here,epileptic & have MS, and one thing I know is that extreme heat and blood-withdrawal can cause seizures. That is why these type of things are done in cool rooms away from the sun, except in emergency,and always carefully monitored.

Even hot weather alone can cause fatal seizures, and then when you add unsterile needles and blood loss, it is frightening. Also these people have been sitting in the roads for 4 days some of them,in the heat.

The organisers who are directing this sick carnival-ride should really face severe criminal charges for any lasting brain/nervous system/haematological damage caused to the individual followers, most of whom are acting out of a misplaced sense of duty & allegiance.

Edited March 16, 2010 by ovaltina

[SeanMoran]

My Sister in law is a senior nurse in Thailand. She is currently stood in front of the TV with us, absolutely aghast at the scenes of blood collecting. The legal age in Thailand for giving blood (of any amount) , unless it is for a medical test for suspected illnessis 15 years old, the maximum age is 60. In terms of the 11 year old, three lots of people have broken the law, the organisers for encouraging it, the parents for agreeing and the Dr or Nurse who has taken it. Non of the Dr's or Nurses can be insured for anything they are doing today

I suspect that health insurance is not a significant part of today's agenda.

[termad]

Daftest thing I ever heard of, if the reds wanted to find a way to shoot themselves in the foot then this is definitely it.

What other peaceful mechanisms would you recommend now that Abhisit has refused to abide by Monday's request?

How about they all go home, and wait for the elections next year when they can express themselves in a rational manner? Abhisit had no reason to abide, he is in power legally, and will be until the elections next year. This isn't about politics, it's about one man's stolen money.

They've won previous elections which were taken away from them why should they now wait for yet another election? I think that it is quite obvious that the Elite Families and the Military are determined that the people will never be allowed to have their government because that's the end of their years of ruling the country.

As for Abhisit being in power legally that's been discussed on previous threads. He is not in power legally unless you think that the purchase of Newin Chitbob and his forty MPs with Elite and Military money (which made Abhisit PM) is legal. Parties have been disolved for vote buying but when the Elite/Military bought Newin Chitbob and his forty MPs they also bought the millions of votes of their electorate who are the same people now out on the streets of Bangkok trying to get these stolen votes back. As for stolen money the Elite families have ruled and subjugated the rural population for years. So would you say that their money is not stolen? If not where did it come from?

Abhisit was schooled in the UK and later studied law at Oxford University so is well aware of the moral and ethical questions raised by his installation as PM. Do you think that he would dare to debate his actions with the Dons at Oxford? I don't think that this grubby man with his thirst for unearned power would dare to do so. You should note that the BBC are describing the Red Shirt demonstration as the largest political demonstration in Thailand for thirty years. That alone is enough in any democracy to consider calls for a General Election but Abhisit has dismissed the idea out of hand. Why? Because he knows that he can't win and is not a legally elected PM.