Thai Protests Turn Bloody -- But Not Violent

[321niti123]

good on them and good on monks who dare to join protests against the government - they might become a new symbol of a fight against the injustice, as monks became symbols for the same ideas in the other countries (vietnam, myanmar)

rituals do play role in politics as well, but won't replace a rational, scientific education and a clear political program - for that we have to wait yet.

The article mentions Hindu Priest (not monks) but in my opinion they are neither. Although there are rituals in Hinduism, most of them used to wish good health of family members. I do not appreciate the nation pinning a religion to the priest, kindaracist/discriminating, who in my opinion are more of a village witch doctor AKA mor duu (doctor see/look-literal translation) than a religious priest.

By the way, I like the passive nature of the government here too-in addition to the military speech talkers-they actually allowed fifty protesters including the red leaders to approach the gate to poor the blood, and they just let the Reds continue with their ritual without interfering, and they cleaned the blood right AFTER the ritual.

Wow...Gov't/Military is on a role today, they have finally matured over the past few years of red VS yellow. Maybe i can stop wearing the same 3 shirts i have been wearing since PAD take over of airport [the rest are either yellow, and Red].

AlL FoR PeACe=pEaCE fOR aLL

[hpwheelman]

I still worry about what Jatuporn might do. He knows this protest has failed. While I had hoped the blood drive was an exit strategy, instead it appears to be an attempt at a rallying cry. What next?

Seppuku

Seppuku in the traditional sense was something an honorable warrior/servant did when they messed up or were so ordered. Something they proudly did to atone for their mistakes. I see no honor in the way the red leaders have misled their poor, lower educated followers. Many of whom were paid more to come protest then they could have made in a few weeks or a month where they came from. This is why education is so important.

[SomTumTiger]

The only ironic think about the airport saga is that the Samak government didn't prosecute the yellow leaders, but now the democrates are in power, the new manifestation of the old regime demands the dems do what they didn't. That's irony. On the subject of political terrorism it maybe worth getting the opinion of the Vietnamese FM on that as he was whicked away from the ASEAN summit last year as the reds stormed the hotel.

But thisthread isn't about the past it's about the present. The Reds were completely outthought both politically and strategically - end of story.

PS - I support neither red nor yellow as I have no vote. I'm just expressing what i have seen.

This was basically a publicity stunt to try to save face - The PM to his credit handled the whole situation calmly and simply rode out the storm, the media whipped itself into a frenzy, schools closed and people stocked up on food, water and beer fearing and impending crisis.

The Reds have been more than defeated they have been humiliated and humbled by the sheer stupidity and lack of planning by their leaders.

This blood ritual is simply a prank to gain publicity and to allow them to have closure on their terms, stagger off and lick their wounds and wait for the election when they will have another opportunity to test the water and see if they actually have the support they believe they have.

Personally I think this demonstration has made the government look better than it has in a while and made the reds and their political allies look like complete <deleted>.

And for all those constant whiners who complain that this isn't a legitimate government - well the lack of popular support spoke volumes about the view of the majority on that issue. An illegitimate government - debatable yes, but get use to it until the next set of elections cause it ain't going anywhere.

Personally I shocked to think that his majesty is sick in hospital and this fiasco goes on.

Would you rather the reds committed an act of political terrorism such as closing the airports as this governments yellow shirted friends did? This protest has been a peaceful one full credit to the Reds for that but they probably wont get what they want because they are acting within the law....rather ironic isnt it?

The real "irony" Jon, is your poor grasp of history. Who was the PM, during the airport fiasco? A mind is a terrible thing to waste...

[haverkamp]

This is so childish what they have done today,it shows that they have the IQ of a seven year's old braindamaged child.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

In case anyone wondered: voodoo-like black magic is alive and well in Thailand. What happened today was a ceremony, no more no less.

Trouble is the secular socialists didnt like it

Quite; though they've put up with more outlandish shit than this so far. They know where their chances are and it's not with the establishment.

[hazz]

Probably because I lack common sense; whilst walking to work I found myself walking though the red protesters as our paths crossed at the north east corner of the kings residence/palace. All I can say is that the protest was just like most protests I have seen in europe; good humoured, peaceful and helped along by a small number of police keeping the traffic and protesters apart. Of cause they had just carried out some whacked out blood curse on the democratic party which must have lifted their spirits plus worked out some of that anger and aggression.

Despite what many are saying I do not see anything happening here that has not happened in many north american and european cities over the last 50 years; this is democracy and its messy. Even last April did not seem much worse than the riots they have in france and germany from time to time. Even the blood protest is not entirely unique, I remember a bunch of quakers after years of withholding the part of their income tax that pays for the armed forces and litigation; where told they had to pay the tax. They did, in buckets of animal blood. when the tax office refused the payment; they poured the money and blood all over their reception and left.

I do not know a single thai who did not believe in black magic stuff to some degree; so the use of human blood, even if is sickening and thoughtless, is probably normal if you want to make a decent curse. I'm just glad they did not use chopped off bits of people as in parts of Africa.

I can understand staying away thailand because you don't want the hassle of dealing with bent taxi/tuk tuk drivers, jetski operators, assorted conmen and property developers who use guns and baseball bats as customer service tools. But staying away from thailand because of these demos is worrying too much

[anotherpeter]

One of my Thai friends who was born and raised in Bangkok, and works with international investment firms there, telephoned me last night in tears because she said she was so embarrased to speak to her foreign clients today, she felt this blood incident made her look like she was part of some barbaric race. Her words.

Its so sad, I've never met any of these loonies with the blood buckets etc. but I have met hundreds of professional and smart Thais who all get tarnished by this.

Tell her not to take it so personally. It was a bunch of people making a "symbolic" protest. People do it all over the world.

.... although they usually use fake blood!!

[BKjohn]

curses - blood - excrement - the IQ must be lower than I thought

[givenall]

That disgusting symbolic gesture done, what is next?

I really expected a lot more from Thai people.

They tell me they are very nationalist. Oh well they are all over new all over the world now and civilized world are all telling each other these people are still from the stone ages, with the rituals to show . There goes the 100 years of advancement and trying to be one the ASIAN power country.

Thanks Mr. T. you have done great for service for your country if you give a shi…t

[luluanator]

i'm sorry, i'm a bit intellectually handicapped, so please excuse my ignorance.

but as far as i can read your comments: to achieve democracy, it's fine for members of the sangha to transgress the Lord Buddha's vinayana? to achieve democracy, it's fine to let a hindu priest perform "rituals" & spill blood?

while, to achieve democracy, for you, it's fine "to wait yet" for a "clear political program"?

may i ask you, _what is "democracy"?_ as i said, i'm intellectually handicapped & i'd appreciate your answer.

I do not care what religious Zelots will make out of this events, those monks did not make harm to anybody and showed their stance on the moral issue

1) pls, stop immediately, calling me a "religous zelot", while i just question merit of your argumentation.

2) you say, "those monks showed their stance on the moral issue" & _i_, humbly, disagree. so what we've now, you say. "it's right" & i say, "it's wrong" - & _that_ exactly is the reason, vinayana demands monks to stay out of "worldy affairs".

3) if you believe political situation (& social involvement of monkhood) between thailand & myanmar is comparable - you've just disqualified yourself.

anything else to offer? i asked you:

but as far as i can read your comments: to achieve democracy, it's fine for members of the sangha to transgress the Lord Buddha's vinayana? to achieve democracy, it's fine to let a hindu priest perform "rituals" & spill blood?

while, to achieve democracy, for you, it's fine "to wait yet" for a "clear political program"?

It is a complex situation and not really one in which blanket statements about what is right or wrong can be applied. I think the redshirts and others in Thailand feel like their voices have not been heard, and after trying many different ways, what seems like desperate measures-because they are- are used. What should be their fate? Go back home and not have any representation in the government? Be peaceful in knowing the government doesn't give a hoot about about them? Is that the Buddhist thing to do? Accept a life that you know you can change for the better but shouldn't because the government wouldn't like it? I am not showing support for Thaksin, but for the notion of democracy and the voices of all the people in the country.

[luluanator]

good on them and good on monks who dare to join protests against the government - they might become a new symbol of a fight against the injustice, as monks became symbols for the same ideas in the other countries (vietnam, myanmar)

rituals do play role in politics as well, but won't replace a rational, scientific education and a clear political program - for that we have to wait yet.

I thought Monks were against equal rights for women in Buddhism as Bhikkhun & had tried for years to prevent them even entering monastries & then preventing them having similar stature in the heirarchy ? How does this misogeny equate to 'monks fighting against injustice'.

Tolerance is very selective.

[luluanator]

I thought that when trying to practice WITCHCRAFT it is pig's blood that's supposed to be thrown. Rememebr Carrie? Maybe there is still one other Thai way/western way nuance I am not informed of in regards to which blood each side uses when practicing WITCHCRAFT?

They are not giving anything they are jsut wasting things.

Witchcraft from hedge-wicca, in England, a truly ancient discipline of midwifery, herbalism & folk remedies for everything from piles to STD. Highly effective by all accounts, as are most things that more than a few thousand years, the trial and error shows which (no pun) remedies are effective. Most of the herbs and roots came from the hedgerows which used to be a beautiful and abundant part of rural England, before the mega-farms arrived. Hedge-wicca also involved psychotropic plants such as the liberty-cap & fly agaric etc. Often misused by the modern quick-buck media merchants today to make it a goth dark sexy kind of affair, it was usually old grannies who just knew a lot about their local flora and fauna.

Thank you for writing that. Witchcraft conjures up selective connotations rather than the living culture of Wicca.

[finaisme]

so sad to see blood wasted that way...

then it takes time and costly to clean up. why can't they express thru a better channel? can't they think of any other way?

so, these stuff won't happen again.

[mrtoad]

Sure Bumrungrad and all the other "International Hospitals" will be delighted with this bit of PR.

[BKjohn]

It is a complex situation and not really one in which blanket statements about what is right or wrong can be applied. I think the redshirts and others

There is nothing complexat all, the situation is simple, Mr. T wants his power and money back and paid those people, most of whom who have no clue as to what is actually going on, to protest. A clear sign of a lack of IQ is obvious through those primitiv rituals which do not lift Thailands reputation in the world - well, the sticky rice is going to run out soon and they will go home

[luluanator]

I still worry about what Jatuporn might do. He knows this protest has failed. While I had hoped the blood drive was an exit strategy, instead it appears to be an attempt at a rallying cry. What next?

Seppuku

Seppuku in the traditional sense was something an honorable warrior/servant did when they messed up or were so ordered. Something they proudly did to atone for their mistakes. I see no honor in the way the red leaders have misled their poor, lower educated followers. Many of whom were paid more to come protest then they could have made in a few weeks or a month where they came from. This is why education is so important.

Then shouldn't the government play a role in ensuring education for all in Thailand? Amazing how easy it is to feel sorry for the poor and uneducated and how say (from our much more comfortable lives) it was a waste of time for them to come and protest when they could have been at home making some money. If education and training and further equal employment opportunities were national standards, perhaps there wouldn't be protests.

[luluanator]

It is a complex situation and not really one in which blanket statements about what is right or wrong can be applied. I think the redshirts and others

There is nothing complexat all, the situation is simple, Mr. T wants his power and money back and paid those people, most of whom who have no clue as to what is actually going on, to protest. A clear sign of a lack of IQ is obvious through those primitiv rituals which do not lift Thailands reputation in the world - well, the sticky rice is going to run out soon and they will go home

I know some people who support the protests but not Thaksin. Perhaps the protests are not just about Thaksin, but a greater discontent in the country- all protest can be reduced to null if all complaints can be called redshirt grumblings. As for the "blood ritual", it is a great tool for the media. What does it mean? As we can see, there a few interpretations. Don't all political movements have strange religio-rituals? To my mind they are silly, but they are a great way to stir passions, suspicions, and imbue the movement with some of the "wa". Really the only way we get to witness this, or anything in the news, is by people making decisions on what to show. There has rarely been any objective reporting. It comes down to power and those who feel powerless are grabbing a straws.

Isn't it a bit insulting to call the protesters low IQ and easily bought off with sticky rice?

Edited March 16, 2010 by luluanator

[whiterussian]

Re:Videos, i think these are a group of Thai/Chinese-semi-hilltribe-religious-sect folk. Probably up here in the north of Thailand.. dunno...the babies are already dead.. natural causes. etc. ( i should bloody hope so anyway)

I think i recall they EAT the flesh, was front page last year.

Maybe thats why the Catholics invented the "body of Christ" wafers... to stop this kinda thing.

My grandfather was an expat for mining/drilling in North Africa for 15 years. One day the local butcher was arrested... you can guess the rest.

nowt as queer as folk.

Edited March 16, 2010 by whiterussian

[elcent]

Does that look similar to Thailand? Montenegro news below

[Ricardo]

The only ironic think about the airport saga is that the Samak government didn't prosecute the yellow leaders

One possible explanation is that the airport-closure took place some months after PM-Samak had left office, booted out by his own party, to make way for PM-Somchai, who coincidentally just happened to be Thaksin's brother-in-law.

Cases against the PAD-leaders, concerning "the airport saga", are indeed underway, and proceeding at the same slow pace which applies to all the cases against Thaksin.

[Anyse]

In the late 1960's, after a picture of a young girl was on the pages of newspapers around the world showing her running while burning up from napalm, here, in my city, there was a protest. They held a vial of napalm and were threatening to pour it on a puppy. Yes, the vial did not contain any napalm; however, more people protested about the "threat" to a puppy than they did about the young, innocent girl. The point of this protest as theater was clear, no on gave a darn about a human being! Maybe, the Red Shirts learned from this, maybe they did not. Symbolically, they did what they felt that they had to do. The police allowed only 50 to approach the government offices to do this, which is laudable. I wish, at times, that here, in the US, the people would also be more active in exercising protests against some of the things that have gone on since 9/11. However, they have become complacent and, as a result, are losing to interests that have become stronger since then that do not represent them.

good on them and good on monks who dare to join protests against the government - they might become a new symbol of a fight against the injustice, as monks became symbols for the same ideas in the other countries (vietnam, myanmar)

rituals do play role in politics as well, but won't replace a rational, scientific education and a clear political program - for that we have to wait yet.

i'm sorry, i'm a bit intellectually handicapped, so please excuse my ignorance.

but as far as i can read your comments: to achieve democracy, it's fine for members of the sangha to transgress the Lord Buddha's vinayana? to achieve democracy, it's fine to let a hindu priest perform "rituals" & spill blood?

while, to achieve democracy, for you, it's fine "to wait yet" for a "clear political program"?

may i ask you, _what is "democracy"?_ as i said, i'm intellectually handicapped & i'd appreciate your answer.

[dublindog]

Idiots paid to give their very blood and have same 'pissed' over some building to live out some lunatic piece of primitive pagan witchcraft or some crazy arcane Masonite rite from beloved Egypt? Nope, Thailand's not being dragged, in the world's eye, down to a Third World Country! ... More like Fourth World!

This insane shit makes voodoo boogallooga seem sensible!

If he had any dignity, the only bloodletting rightly seen would be the so-called "anti-elitist", elitist, multi-billionaire, Chinese criminal Tacky Shitwad slitting his porcine throat in front of that crappy webcam for his army of paid yokels to gaze at, totally transfixed!

A veritable symbol for the ages that Thailand could muse with awe upon for ... erm, well a moment or two ... and then move on towards the twenty-first century!

[silk]

i'm sorry, i'm a bit intellectually handicapped, so please excuse my ignorance.

but as far as i can read your comments: to achieve democracy, it's fine for members of the sangha to transgress the Lord Buddha's vinayana? to achieve democracy, it's fine to let a hindu priest perform "rituals" & spill blood?

while, to achieve democracy, for you, it's fine "to wait yet" for a "clear political program"?

may i ask you, _what is "democracy"?_ as i said, i'm intellectually handicapped & i'd appreciate your answer.

I do not care what religious Zelots will make out of this events, those monks did not make harm to anybody and showed their stance on the moral issue

1) pls, stop immediately, calling me a "religous zelot", while i just question merit of your argumentation.

2) you say, "those monks showed their stance on the moral issue" & _i_, humbly, disagree. so what we've now, you say. "it's right" & i say, "it's wrong" - & _that_ exactly is the reason, vinayana demands monks to stay out of "worldy affairs".

3) if you believe political situation (& social involvement of monkhood) between thailand & myanmar is comparable - you've just disqualified yourself.

anything else to offer? i asked you:

but as far as i can read your comments: to achieve democracy, it's fine for members of the sangha to transgress the Lord Buddha's vinayana? to achieve democracy, it's fine to let a hindu priest perform "rituals" & spill blood?

while, to achieve democracy, for you, it's fine "to wait yet" for a "clear political program"?

It is a complex situation and not really one in which blanket statements about what is right or wrong can be applied. I think the redshirts and others in Thailand feel like their voices have not been heard, and after trying many different ways, what seems like desperate measures-because they are- are used. What should be their fate? Go back home and not have any representation in the government? Be peaceful in knowing the government doesn't give a hoot about about them? Is that the Buddhist thing to do? Accept a life that you know you can change for the better but shouldn't because the government wouldn't like it? I am not showing support for Thaksin, but for the notion of democracy and the voices of all the people in the country.

Protest against current governments are not different in other countries. Who is the minority?

Questions:

How to know how many Thais, who are not "red shirts" think differently?

Would there be more blood, if opponenets would do the same?

Can the government just meet the red's requirements, without knowing how many other Thais think differently?

A new election will be held next year and EVERY THAI can vote. Why can't they wait until then?

I think it is more difficult to deal with people who do NOT listen to other sources than their leaders (like the reds). If they would, they would take the following into consideration:

Last year every employee with low income (under the current PM) received THB 2000 due to bad economy. Who did not pay taxes did not get the refund (of course). Do the protesters not know about this? If not, they did not pay taxes and they will not see this as a step forward to help thais with low income.

The health facilities, set up by Mr. T (THB 30 for a visit in hospital) did not work out, because the hospitals could not cover their costs. I think this system is fair, but the money to cover up this system should be taken from taxpayers with higher income, (which was not the case under T.) Why mot give it time and see how the current PM is handling this?

[mrtoad]

I know some people who support the protests but not Thaksin. Perhaps the protests are not just about Thaksin, but a greater discontent in the country- all protest can be reduced to null if all complaints can be called redshirt grumblings. As for the "blood ritual", it is a great tool for the media. What does it mean? As we can see, there a few interpretations. Don't all political movements have strange religio-rituals? To my mind they are silly, but they are a great way to stir passions, suspicions, and imbue the movement with some of the "wa". Really the only way we get to witness this, or anything in the news, is by people making decisions on what to show. There has rarely been any objective reporting. It comes down to power and those who feel powerless are grabbing a straws.

Isn't it a bit insulting to call the protesters low IQ and easily bought off with sticky rice?

If you think this is not about Thaksin, then I suggest you have a read around about all the red shirt leaders who have instigated it. Hazzard a guess they are on Fuhrer Thaksin's pay roll.

[kurtgruen]

Sure Bumrungrad and all the other "International Hospitals" will be delighted with this bit of PR.

Oh yeah! Should do wonders for the medical tourism, they have been promoting worldwide this year

[roamer]

Self deleted. A little too gruesome.

Edited March 16, 2010 by roamer

[Amy1029]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Chian...r-30124795.html

Absolutely disgusting and they've got it going on in the provinces as well. Someone seriously needs to consider public safety and hygiene here. Ridiculous.

[kurtgruen]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Chian...r-30124795.html

Absolutely disgusting and they've got it going on in the provinces as well. Someone seriously needs to consider public safety and hygiene here. Ridiculous.

[/quote

How many people showed up in Chiang Mai, to give blood?

[Netfan]

I still worry about what Jatuporn might do. He knows this protest has failed. While I had hoped the blood drive was an exit strategy, instead it appears to be an attempt at a rallying cry. What next?

Seppuku

Seppuku in the traditional sense was something an honorable warrior/servant did when they messed up or were so ordered. Something they proudly did to atone for their mistakes. I see no honor in the way the red leaders have misled their poor, lower educated followers. Many of whom were paid more to come protest then they could have made in a few weeks or a month where they came from. This is why education is so important.

Then shouldn't the government play a role in ensuring education for all in Thailand? Amazing how easy it is to feel sorry for the poor and uneducated and how say (from our much more comfortable lives) it was a waste of time for them to come and protest when they could have been at home making some money. If education and training and further equal employment opportunities were national standards, perhaps there wouldn't be protests.

Uh, Thaksin used to be Minister of Education. And PM at the same time! How exactly did he improve the school system while he had the chance?

[liloldspirut]

i'm sorry, i'm a bit intellectually handicapped, so please excuse my ignorance.

but as far as i can read your comments: to achieve democracy, it's fine for members of the sangha to transgress the Lord Buddha's vinayana? to achieve democracy, it's fine to let a hindu priest perform "rituals" & spill blood?

while, to achieve democracy, for you, it's fine "to wait yet" for a "clear political program"?

may i ask you, _what is "democracy"?_ as i said, i'm intellectually handicapped & i'd appreciate your answer.

I do not care what religious Zelots will make out of this events, those monks did not make harm to anybody and showed their stance on the moral issue

1) pls, stop immediately, calling me a "religous zelot", while i just question merit of your argumentation.

2) you say, "those monks showed their stance on the moral issue" & _i_, humbly, disagree. so what we've now, you say. "it's right" & i say, "it's wrong" - & _that_ exactly is the reason, vinayana demands monks to stay out of "worldy affairs".

3) if you believe political situation (& social involvement of monkhood) between thailand & myanmar is comparable - you've just disqualified yourself.

anything else to offer? i asked you:

but as far as i can read your comments: to achieve democracy, it's fine for members of the sangha to transgress the Lord Buddha's vinayana? to achieve democracy, it's fine to let a hindu priest perform "rituals" & spill blood?

while, to achieve democracy, for you, it's fine "to wait yet" for a "clear political program"?

Precisely why. Their has not been a "Clear Political Program" for the Thais since this Gov. came to power by Coup means. This is what has occured in this instance because the peoplle have been abused to obtain riches via corruption and it was Taksin who was accused of this . Who is taking Thaksins place now?