Thai Protests Turn Bloody -- But Not Violent

[boggzzy]

i'm sorry, i'm a bit intellectually handicapped, so please excuse my ignorance.

but as far as i can read your comments: to achieve democracy, it's fine for members of the sangha to transgress the Lord Buddha's vinayana? to achieve democracy, it's fine to let a hindu priest perform "rituals" & spill blood?

while, to achieve democracy, for you, it's fine "to wait yet" for a "clear political program"?

may i ask you, _what is "democracy"?_ as i said, i'm intellectually handicapped & i'd appreciate your answer.

I do not care what religious Zelots will make out of this events, those monks did not make harm to anybody and showed their stance on the moral issue

there is no moral issue. this govenrment are all duely elected members of parliment. yes they were not voted in as prime minister. but the constitution has been followed. as an out sider looking in both the red and yellow are bad for thailand as is the criminal Taksin

[Mosha]

My wife is a bit cheesed off. We were having breakfast, and the tv was on in the other room. They were talking about the curse, and Sopha cocked her head to one side listening. Then said "Humph, he's not family no more." Seems the guy delivering the curse is a distant cousin. The family are all what I call Shaymen, and this guy actually did the blessing on my wife's home in Pak Phanang.

[anotherpeter]

I reckon the Reds have won the propoganda war about things.Lots of international media and air time.

I just hope they can now disperse and keep it peaceful, point having been clearly made.Unelected government crying wolf.

Was a bit flumoxed about the blood letting but see it has a place in thai thinking.

Just hope Obama explains to abisit what a democracy is, and tells him where to get off with his coup-issued law,thats if he still visits.

Expect abisit is feeling rather shameful at the moment.

Nice effort The Reds..( The Rural Electoral Democracy Supporters ).

If by lots of international media time, you mean 1 minute repeating every hour and a small article in the newspaper every couple of days ... then, yes, heaps.

Don't think that makes any difference though. No one o/s knows what the story is about so it will be forgotten in 5 minutes.

The poor farmers have made their point, but the red leaders haven't. The reds (leaders) aims were to bring down the government, and they haven't.

And it is very unlikely that they will. They said it would be done in 4 days and gave an ultimatum of Monday noon. 2 days later ..........

There are plenty of explanations of why Abhisit is the elected Prime Minister (here is one: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Abhisit-Legi...in-t347392.html).

I'm sure Abhisit is feeling quite happy with himself. He has handled these protests brilliantly. After all the violence that was threatened by the red leaders, the response has been planned and executed to the letter.

It's in the reds court now. What is their next step?

[clausewitz]

first urine & feces, then blood, what bodily fluid is next? ....semen or phlegm ?

Do you suppose those same donors would be prepared to give blood at a Red Cross or hospital donation day in order to save lives, a rhetorical question.

I would imagine they would do it, if needed - as they did today

You didnt understand the word rhetorical? and why would a Hindu Brahmin be laying a curse, when 20,000 good Buddhist monks were alleged to be protesting?

The 20,000 monks promised didn't show, which is a credit to them sticking with their religious duties and not getting involved with political maneuverings. However, why do we all of a sudden get a Hindu Brahmin in on the act? He not only sullies his hands (literally) but he sullies the reputation of Brahmins in general.

We know Thai style Buddhism and Hindu Brahmins are indelibly entwined with hocus pocus superstitions ad nauseum, but do they have to make such a silly show of it on the world stage?

How many posts have you made in the past supportuing the yellow shirts?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/11/10...on_30087963.php

PAD saves the nation from supernatural attack

ON OCTOBER 29, Sondhi Limthongkul gave a speech from the People's Alliance for Democracy stage, broadcast over ASTV, about a new front in his fight to "save the nation". He said:

"For many years in the past, the powers of many sacred things including the spirit of the City Pillar, the Equestrian Statue of King Rama V, Phra Sayam Thewathirat, and the Emerald Buddha, have been suppressed by evil people using magic. 'Suppress' does not mean destroy, because sacred objects cannot be destroyed, as they have too much power. But 'suppress' means not allowing them to emit their power, by encircling them. This is true. So we have just finished rectifying this in the last two to three weeks. Like at the statue of the Emerald Buddha.

"Behind it there is a stone. Evil-minded people had allied with some in the Royal Household Bureau to allow a Khmer adept to go behind the Emerald Buddha and take the stone away, because that stone is the important thing for emitting power."

A few weeks ago, anti-government agitator Sondhi Limthongkul, whose Peoples Alliance for Democracy has occupied key official buildings for four months in an effort to topple a government he considers illegitimate, accused his opponents of employing wizardry to channel the statues protective forces their way. And to reverse that alleged sorcery, he deployed his own mystics to encircle the statue with used sanitary napkins (collected from the PADs rank-and-file) to form a shield of menstrual blood. Bangkok's Bizarre Power Struggle

Newsweek By Jamie Seaton and George Wehrfritz

Many Thais believe that a 100-year-old bronze likeness of King Rama V located in downtown Bangkok emits powerful magic. That is why, fully a century after it was cast in Paris, the likeness has become the object of struggle between top government leaders and a band of rightists seeking to oust them. A few weeks ago, anti-government agitator Sondhi Limthongkul, whose People's Alliance for Democracy has occupied key official buildings for four months in an effort to topple a government he considers illegitimate, accused his opponents of employing wizardry to channel the statue's protective forces their way. And to reverse that alleged sorcery, he deployed his own mystics to encircle the statue with used sanitary napkins (collected from the PAD's rank-and-file) to form a shield of menstrual blood.

A month later, unidentified vandals smashed numerous statues at Phanom Rung, one of the shrines he visited, purportedly to nullify Thaksin's powers. Sondhi frequently denounces one of Thaksin's allies as a "Khmer wizard" and was caught on video recently clad in priestly white robes as he sprinkled holy water at a government complex occupied by PAD demonstrators and called on Thais to resist "evil magic." Bangkok-based political scientist Chris Baker says supernaturalism ebbs and flows in Thailand, but "at times of crisis these things bubble to the surface."

The PAD hopes its violent street actions will muster enough power to oust political opponents it can't beat at the ballot box. Comprised mainly of conservative militarists, Bangkok's old elite and royalists who see Thailand's democracy as a threat to its monarchy, the anti-government coalition lost the last election but now seeks to reverse that result by claiming that the victorious People Power Party stole the contest a claim for which there is scant supporting evidence. What really irks them is that the PPP is unabashedly pro-Thaksin and draws on his immense popularity in rural Thailand to dominate national polls. Their fear is that the party should it ever fully consolidate power would quickly return Thaksin to office despite his recent conviction on corruption charges stemming from his 2000-2006 rule.

The PAD's methods are extreme. They've turned occupied government buildings into tent camps guarded by golf club-wielding thugs. They've closed several airports Bangkok International is merely the latest and urged state-owned airlines, power and transport companies to stage general strikes. Sondhi, a media tycoon-turned political raconteur, claims his movement is solely aimed at defending Thailand's monarchy against a secret anti-royalist plot by Thaksin and his allies (who deny the claims and profess loyalty to the throne). The PAD advocates a limited form of democracy that, in essence, would disenfranchise rural voters who Sondhi has claimed "lack intelligence and wisdom." His supporters believe their campaign has a supernatural subtext. Sondhi "uses [mystical] ceremonies to protect people," says one female PAD supporter who is college-educated and works in an architectural firm in Bangkok. "I believe the spirits can help us sixty percent of the way, but that we must do the rest ourselves."

[MUYTHAI]

I find this quite repulsive,,it does nothing for Thailands image around the world.

It is good that the protesters can and do act as they like and have the strength and independence not care what some foreigners might believe. It is their country...not yours. Do you ponder each of your actions before you act based on how someone in the Middle East, Africa, etc. might think, believe, or perceive them?

[MUYTHAI]

Just based of percentages alone...all the blood in each litre or bottle of blood would probably be HIV contaminated. It was not wise to touch it, let alone, put one's hands in it, etc.

[granuaile]

In case anyone wondered: voodoo-like black magic is alive and well in Thailand. What happened today was a ceremony, no more no less.

Trouble is the secular socialists didnt like it

Quite; though they've put up with more outlandish shit than this so far. They know where their chances are and it's not with the establishment.

Seems many are fed up though. Yesterday The Nation reported that a Red Siam leader had said half the demonstrators had left, he was preparing to leave, and that the Red Shirt leaders had failed in their strategy.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Siam-...m-30124807.html

[granuaile]

Excellent point Anyse. But back to the present. Tomorrow the red shirts are marching up Sukhumvit Road to Soi 31. There are still several thousand reds remaining in BKK. As well as the attendant militants - the hard core. The chances of there being some kind of violent confrontation and stand off between the reds and locals is quite likely. If not sooner - then later in the day.

I hope not. It won't do either side any good, and certainly will not help the Red Shirt cause any. Indeed, it would be repeating their mistakes from last year all over again...

Granuaile

[quiksilva]

A couple of good articles in today's Guardian

Blood, sweat ... and custard: unusual styles of protest around the world

Thailand's Blood Protests: what does it actually mean?

[frodo]

Just watched channel 3 this morning and look.....

The head-monk from SriBunruang Temple was throwing blood (collected from the red shirts) at the soldiers at Kavila military base near the Ping River.

This is not real and can happen in Thailand only.

Bah. I hope this will make the world news.

The Post reported a similar story about a monk throwing blood at the military and media. Pathetic. Are monks immune from assault charges or are they above the law. This is not Buddhism.

[granuaile]

I reckon the Reds have won the propoganda war about things.Lots of international media and air time.

I just hope they can now disperse and keep it peaceful, point having been clearly made.Unelected government crying wolf.

Was a bit flumoxed about the blood letting but see it has a place in thai thinking.

Just hope Obama explains to abisit what a democracy is, and tells him where to get off with his coup-issued law,thats if he still visits.

Expect abisit is feeling rather shameful at the moment.

Nice effort The Reds..( The Rural Electoral Democracy Supporters ).

???

Ashamed? Why... P.M. Abhisit and the government have shown extreme patience, despite attempts by the Red Shirts to provoke them. A round of applause from my quarter for the P.M.

[Grey11]

ALOT of hullabaloo for a LITTLE amount of blood that does a LARGE amount of damage to this country. All of the hype for that teeny little amount of blood? So sad, I mean if youre going to do something, do it BIG and make an impression.

I say leave it where it is and wait for Songkran. A few squirt guns and it will be gone. Problem solved.

Reading the more than 500 comments on the situation on yahoo news it seems that many in the rest of the world see Thailand as a dangerous, unstable country & commented that the people (Reds) act like animals and the pouring of the blood was idiotic, dangerous and black magic. For 4 years Thaksin has tried to destroy the reputation of Thailand around the world using these peasants from the north. No telling how many jobs have been lost to Thais with corporations from around the world deciding not to locate here. Though the coverage by the BBC has been totally pro-Red Shirts/Thaksin, tourism & the future loss of jobs is a result of the insurrection caused by these brainwashed Red Shirts. I was sickened watching these poorly educated people giving their blood & pouring it on the streets and gates of government offices. Black majic - even using Hindus to crawl in it - makes all of Thailand look like one of the most backward countries in the world. The PM has done a good job in keeping the peace. No other country in the world would have allowed this. The leaders should definitely be arrested and tried. Of course their hero, Thaksin is still traveling around the world in his private jet and was seen eating cakes & drinking wine in a sidewalk cafe in Montenegro. What a coward!

[Cayenne]

A nurse friend of mine saw the newpaper photos of the blood being carried in the plastic jugs and commented that most of them are fake blood (i.e. used in movies) because they were bright red; only the jugs with a purple hue seemed to be genuine blood. Indeed, in the photo in BKK Post today page 2 you can see that they are carrying two jugs- one very red and the other purple.

[Meridian007]

We know Thai style Buddhism and Hindu Brahmins are indelibly entwined with hocus pocus superstitions ad nauseum, but do they have to make such a silly show of it on the world stage?

How many posts have you made in the past supportuing the yellow shirts?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/11/10...on_30087963.php

PAD saves the nation from supernatural attack

I think that most people who had supported the yellows before, gave up before this happened. Once Sondhi got involved, (and the military), their tactics and goals seemed to change. This polarization made a lot of former yellow supporters fall away in the same way that this continuing polarization of the reds into a fringe cult is turning off many former red supporters.

As I said in another thread, I hope that this increasing irrelevancy of the red fanatic sub-group, increases the irrelevancy of those in the yellow fanatic sub-group. Both should be heavily monitored and not allowed to go off their meds! Straitjackets might be a good idea for all of them too! I think the blood magic is a good indicator of when the time has passed for an intervention!

[Thai at Heart]

We know Thai style Buddhism and Hindu Brahmins are indelibly entwined with hocus pocus superstitions ad nauseum, but do they have to make such a silly show of it on the world stage?

How many posts have you made in the past supportuing the yellow shirts?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/11/10...on_30087963.php

PAD saves the nation from supernatural attack

I think that most people who had supported the yellows before, gave up before this happened. Once Sondhi got involved, (and the military), their tactics and goals seemed to change. This polarization made a lot of former yellow supporters fall away in the same way that this continuing polarization of the reds into a fringe cult is turning off many former red supporters.

As I said in another thread, I hope that this increasing irrelevancy of the red fanatic sub-group, increases the irrelevancy of those in the yellow fanatic sub-group. Both should be heavily monitored and not allowed to go off their meds! Straitjackets might be a good idea for all of them too! I think the blood magic is a good indicator of when the time has passed for an intervention!

I don't think you can split the concept of Sondhi and "the yellows". The defacto public face of the yellow movement from the first moment was Sondhi.

And yes the PAD wasn't immune to very odd ritualistic behaviour either.

[Meridian007]

^ You're right. Sorry, I guess what I was remembering was when he began to get more vocal during Samak's term, and seemed to be losing the plot quickly.

I think the majority of Thailand has begun to learn that extremist groups might not be the best groups to follow, be they red, yellow, blue or whatever. Political development!

And now the rain will wash away their "blood" or whatever is in those bottles, everyone can go home, and we can get on with our lives! Yay!

[btunes]

The Red shirts attempt at Cambutsha magik.....dont think it will work

Edited March 17, 2010 by btunes

[DickFarang]

What image does Thailand have to lose?

I fear, you are right.

[neverdie]

What image does Thailand have to lose?

I fear, you are right.

About 5-10% of brits posts are fairly accurate, so theres at least a chance you could be right.

[DickFarang]

first urine & feces, then blood, what bodily fluid is next? ....semen or phlegm ?

Do you suppose those same donors would be prepared to give blood at a Red Cross or hospital donation day in order to save lives, a rhetorical question.

I would imagine they would do it, if needed - as they did today

You didnt understand the word rhetorical? and why would a Hindu Brahmin be laying a curse, when 20,000 good Buddhist monks were alleged to be protesting?

The 20,000 monks promised didn't show, which is a credit to them sticking with their religious duties and not getting involved with political maneuverings. However, why do we all of a sudden get a Hindu Brahmin in on the act? He not only sullies his hands (literally) but he sullies the reputation of Brahmins in general.

We know Thai style Buddhism and Hindu Brahmins are indelibly entwined with hocus pocus superstitions ad nauseum, but do they have to make such a silly show of it on the world stage?

I just spoke on the phone with a suicidal Canadian who deeply believes (and is haunted by the thought that) a couple women are responsible for a back problem he suffered years ago. He got on a public bus they recommended he take. The bus crashed. The Canadian suffered a back injury. Hence, he thinks the women purposefully put him on that bus in order for him to suffer that injury. The extent of hocus pocus beliefs is ludicrously widespread - in N.America, In Asia, and everywhere there are people. Get real people! Science and Nature are real. Metaphysics, esoteric bliefs, paranormal, astrology, religion, ....they're all hocus pocus! The sooner people can sweep such beliefs out of their minds, the sooner they can get on to enjoying their lives.

If someone pours human blood on my porch, it's a safety hazard, a mess, and it's rude. No more, no less.

If the blood pouring happened in the States, the perpetrators would be fined for illegal trash dumping.

On Sunday there were Buddhist monks on stage and an abbot from Bangkok, preaching that all people have the right to happiness.

You should not limit yourself to what is shown on Channel 7.

[DickFarang]

What image does Thailand have to lose?

I fear, you are right.

About 5-10% of brits posts are fairly accurate, so theres at least a chance you could be right.

I am not a Brit. 5 5 5

[janderton]

.....

Thank you SO, SO MUCH janderton, you douche-lord, for posting that sick twist video. I'll be trying to extricate it from my head for the next, say, 2 years or so.

Im so glad I got the opportunity of seeing a baby chopped up into tiny pieces. My day is now ruined, so thanks for that.

I'm sure we all know what a snuff film, but do you have to SEE ONE to know they exist? I dont think so.

I believe I speak for several others with the request to keep that in your personal collection of posthumous cinematic rubbish...

.....

I let it through a video analyzer and there are no parts that have been edited so far as I can see.

the video is real, NO special effect

got more, if needs...

i hope there will be a thai user to explain you when this happens....(not why, we farang couldn't understand)

[MILT]

Kewl display - I wouldnt do it, but I give them credit they set out and did what they said they would do. Visuals are powerful and this one is wicked.

Visuals are powerful, these acts only weaken an already dissolving attempt to bring about change. The message can get lost when the theatrics are to wicked.

[RobinHolmes]

I find this quite repulsive,,it does nothing for Thailands image around the world.

It makes Thailand seem like the Dictatorship it is. The ordinary people fighting for democracy.

[RobinHolmes]

ALOT of hullabaloo for a LITTLE amount of blood that does a LARGE amount of damage to this country. All of the hype for that teeny little amount of blood? So sad, I mean if youre going to do something, do it BIG and make an impression.

I say leave it where it is and wait for Songkran. A few squirt guns and it will be gone. Problem solved.

Nowhere near as much harm as the PAD did.

[dude007]

good on them and good on monks who dare to join protests against the government - they might become a new symbol of a fight against the injustice, as monks became symbols for the same ideas in the other countries (vietnam, myanmar)

rituals do play role in politics as well, but won't replace a rational, scientific education and a clear political program - for that we have to wait yet.

Monks and all religious groups should stay out of politics. Grave mistake from the monks who have chosen side... There is no excuse for that!

[zirc]

Kewl display - I wouldnt do it, but I give them credit they set out and did what they said they would do.

No, they didn't do (1,000,000 cc = 264 gallons of blood) what they said they would do. Same as they didn't have 20,000 monks and didn't have 1,000,000 protesters.

They have failed at everything "they set out to do."

Their only consistency is that of failure.

[Carib]

Kewl display - I wouldnt do it, but I give them credit they set out and did what they said they would do.

No, they didn't do (1,000,000 cc = 264 gallons of blood) what they said they would do. Same as they didn't have 20,000 monks and didn't have 1,000,000 protesters.

They have failed at everything "they set out to do."

Their only consistency is that of failure.

And that it has been peaceful up to now. Hats of to them.

[amkbkk]

While HRH Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn is on goodwill visit to Burma to observed royal-support healthcare projects including Thai-donated Blood Bank in National Blood Center in Yangon General Hospital, Red Thai people waste their blood on the roads. If they really love the country, they should donate blood to the needy Thai people. Reds really look like power-thirsty monsters!

[SomTumTiger]

If you give someone enough rope, they will end up hanging themselves. The government has played this one perfectly. Sad to watch the slow, painful disentigration of a moment that, in 'professed' ideology, might have made some good points regarding military involvement in politics, etc. Go curse some chickens or something.