Class War

[PeaceBlondie]

Class warfare is initiated and led usually by upper class elites who were denied access to supreme power. They adopt a populist stance which attracts mainly the disenfranchised poor. However it is a clash of rich titans. In this case, old money versus new money. The poor are being played as pawns.

See Somoza Falling, by Anthony Lake.

[Pakboong]

You can however, look at a common reference source such as Wikipedia and clearly see reference to Chinese in the ancestry of the last dozen or so PMs. Whatever reason is given to cause that reference, when not present, would suggest an ethnic Thai. The Thais know, but for some reason do not talk about it in the open. It is clear for example that Sonthi and Abhisit are both pure ethnic Chinese just to name a couple. Sonthi, I beleive, is first generation Chinese. No Thai would argue. Thaksin is also ethnic Chinese, but there might be some argument however, a quick look at his family tree settles it. Lots of Chinese in the top layers of government here in Thailand. In many countries, loyalty to the crown would come into question in these situations.

The same argument would occur if in the US illegal Mexican immigrants were pardoned and given citizenship. It is likely to happen at some point. How many generations would have to pass before a Mexican could considers himself a ful-fledged American and can be loyal to president and country. Many Mexicans would never become loyal to their new government? No big deal, certainly to be expected.Loyalty to a country and it's rule takes a while to grow, it doesn't just happen like tuning on a lamp. Example. can a Chinese really love a Thai king? I don't know but if I were Thai, I would certainly wonder about it and not take it for granted.

Sure, the upper echelons of business and politics here are blatantly at least somewhat Chinese, because in Thailand, it benefits them to identify with that ethnicity. Identifying with an ethnicity from another South-East Asian nation is generally a handicap here, so you won't see them identified as Thai-Lao or, (as is generally the case in politics here when they are not Thai-Chinese), Thai-Indian.

Sadly those who are not Thai-Chinese, (or really, just as you said, 100% Chinese), are so used to being led by the Chinese, that to have anyone else in a position of power is suspect. Once this mentality, (self confidence issue? I definitely wouldn't say laziness or stupidity as some others have in this thread and others, I know some very active and intelligent non-Chinese Thais), has been taken care of, I think we could see the "Thai" leader that you, (and I), hope for.

-----Edit for MM

Yes, language is another trait that could be used to define ethnicity, but I think that's the problem, they can't really define what to include. Do you only base it on DNA? Facial features? Skin colour? Language? Religion?

Plaek Pibulsongkram was the last PM to address and attack the Chinese problem. I am going to give him some credit and suggest he and his advisors considered what has been discussed here and ulitmately attacked the Chinese by outlawing Chinese exclusive schools and social organizations. He tried to limit their ability to own Thai real estate. He might have advocated in private that they all be executed for all we know. He did not want Thais to have to compete with them in an open market so he worked to limit Chinese advantage. He apparently was aware of the Chinese business acumen and IQ advantage over the ethnic Thais.

He had even gone on record in comparing them to the Jews in pre-WW2 Germany.

Pleak was elected to more than one term with breaks in between and each time, re-instituted these controls. He was ousted more than once and died in exile in Japan. He was the guy who made the deal with the Japanese during WW2. It is never discussed but his siding with the Japanese could have had more to do with his anti Chinese sentiments than anything else.

Of course, it was not the communist Chinese he opposed, but the capitalist world wanderers who sought easy targets for economic advantage.

I am giving credit to Plaek for being the last Thai champion. He could have been the worst PM Thailand has ever had for that matter but he was Thai and his sentiments were Thai.

This is not an anthropological matter, rather one of ethnicity and nationalism.

[Samuian]

Class warfare is initiated and led usually by upper class elites who were denied access to supreme power. They adopt a populist stance which attracts mainly the disenfranchised poor. However it is a clash of rich titans. In this case, old money versus new money. The poor are being played as pawns.

See Somoza Falling, by Anthony Lake.

Call 'em the "New Elites", the "Nouveau Riche", the Paragon & Emporium cliques...

are pushing and shoving to get their share of what follows after money!

There is simply no "class war", it's the camouflage, the veil of deceit, the bait with which the "forgotten"

are caught..... those people pushing have absolutely no interest to share, they want power, that's all!

Every other declaration is part of the "first edition"... released by MR/.Sondhi's vs. Mr.Thaksin road shows!

Edited March 19, 2010 by Samuian

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The face on the giant TV screen has reached the limits of desperation, and will say anything that could possibly have any impact at all. Funny about a 'class uprising' being incited by a rich SOB traversing the planet in a private jet. Anyway, no need to dissect and analyze what is being said, it's all just blather, and you'd be putting more thought into the words than the person who spoke them. For further entertainment along these lines give a listen to Tom Waits's 'Step Right Up.'

This is like all those conservative guys in the US denouncing elites while they themselves make millions per year for spouting their drivel. Taksin has definitely taken a few notes from these guys. Redshirts equate to the US Teabaggers.

Anyway, what class? These Issani bumpkins don't seem to have much class at all. Oops, does saying that make me an elite?

"Elite"? - no. "Bigot"? - yes.

Why? A bumpkin is an unsophisticated person. How many of the redshirts presently demonstrating would know which fork to use at a fine dining restaurant? It isn't a criticism, it's a fact.

Wow.. I don't think that even requires a reply! (Will issue a hint though, and it's got everything to do with looking down on people and dismissing their aspirations in society.)

[somtampet]

I

am truly confused by the latest Red Shirt call for a "class war". How can any group advance their cause of representing the poor and uneducated with one of the country's exiled top billionaires as it iconic leader? Something with this does not compute. How can a man of such means be thought of as the representative of the poor and uneducated? Desperate times call for desperate measures, but former PM Thaksin as the figurehead for the poor? Surely they do not think of him as anything akin to their class. What gives?

He might not give a smeg but he has done something for them. The sadest thing about this political imbroglio is that THEY will support him because no one else has ever done a dam_n thing for them. They are viewed as a cheap source of labour and that is all. PAD and the DEMs have been desperatly trying to say they care but they have decades of indifference to explain (or ignore and obfuscate). Unfortunatly the chickens have come home to roost. The Reds may fail but the lines are drawn, as well they should be.

very good post,

most politics are about the haves and have nots,and Thailand will explode with a class war duer to the racism towards decent,hard working,darkskinned Issan people.

Until the hi-so minoruty realise that their lives are in in danger,nothing will be done.Enough is enough now and the majority will continue to rule.

[Pakboong]

Class warfare is initiated and led usually by upper class elites who were denied access to supreme power. They adopt a populist stance which attracts mainly the disenfranchised poor. However it is a clash of rich titans. In this case, old money versus new money. The poor are being played as pawns.

See Somoza Falling, by Anthony Lake.

I agree. Considering "Upper Class Elites' these groups are often called secret societies throughout history with names like "Skull and Bones" in the US, Illuminati, etc... All with secret handshakes(lol) and exclusive memberships. One ethnically Thai Prime Minister outlawed these exclusive Chinese clubs in Thailand. I believe I understand his motive as being consistent with your comment.

[sabaijai]

Class war in Thailand = new money vs old money

[way2muchcoffee]

The face on the giant TV screen has reached the limits of desperation, and will say anything that could possibly have any impact at all. Funny about a 'class uprising' being incited by a rich SOB traversing the planet in a private jet. Anyway, no need to dissect and analyze what is being said, it's all just blather, and you'd be putting more thought into the words than the person who spoke them. For further entertainment along these lines give a listen to Tom Waits's 'Step Right Up.'

This is like all those conservative guys in the US denouncing elites while they themselves make millions per year for spouting their drivel. Taksin has definitely taken a few notes from these guys. Redshirts equate to the US Teabaggers.

Anyway, what class? These Issani bumpkins don't seem to have much class at all. Oops, does saying that make me an elite?

"Elite"? - no. "Bigot"? - yes.

Why? A bumpkin is an unsophisticated person. How many of the redshirts presently demonstrating would know which fork to use at a fine dining restaurant? It isn't a criticism, it's a fact.

Wow.. I don't think that even requires a reply! (Will issue a hint though, and it's got everything to do with looking down on people and dismissing their aspirations in society.)

Wow. You deliberately left off the next part of my statement. Very sneaky and rude of you, naughty boy. I went on to say that my wife is a bumpkin. I needed to teach her a more complete set manners than she was able get from being raised in the village. It is nothing to be ashamed of. Bumpkin simply means unsophisticated, which most rural Thais are. I'm sorry if you can't see the truth in this and in your quest for political correctness choose to see insult where there is none.

Even worse you accuse me of dismissing and looking down on them? Ridiculous. I would not have married my wife if 'sophisticated' was something I think is important in a person. I have no doubt that anyone can be taught socially appropriate behaviors. That's the point - these are learned, not innate. Dismiss their aspirations? Hardly. I support their aspirations wholeheartedly, to the extent that they revolve around social equality and opportunity. What I do not support is the bringing back of a criminal to run a country, no matter how well he is loved.

Edited March 19, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[whiterussian]

He did not want Thais to have to compete with them in an open market so he worked to limit Chinese advantage. He apparently was aware of the Chinese business acumen and IQ advantage over the ethnic Thais.

nature/nuture.

Just a matter of time... IMO.

[gregb]

"Elite"? - no. "Bigot"? - yes.

Why? A bumpkin is an unsophisticated person. How many of the redshirts presently demonstrating would know which fork to use at a fine dining restaurant? It isn't a criticism, it's a fact.

Wow.. I don't think that even requires a reply! (Will issue a hint though, and it's got everything to do with looking down on people and dismissing their aspirations in society.)

Wow. You deliberately left off the next part of my statement. Very sneaky and rude of you, naughty boy. I went on to say that my wife is a bumpkin. I needed to teach her a more complete set manners than she was able get from being raised in the village. It is nothing to be ashamed of. Bumpkin simply means unsophisticated, which most rural Thais are. I'm sorry if you can't see the truth in this and in your quest for political correctness choose to see insult where there is none.

Even worse you accuse me of dismissing and looking down on them? Ridiculous. I would not have married my wife if 'sophisticated' was something I think is important in a person. I have no doubt that anyone can be taught socially appropriate behaviors. That's the point - these are learned, not innate. Dismiss their aspirations? Hardly. I support their aspirations wholeheartedly, to the extent that they revolve around social equality and opportunity. What I do not support is the bringing back of a criminal to run a country, no matter how well he is loved.

Sometimes honest, thinking members just need a bit of encouragement. Good post way2muchcoffee. Let me buy you an electronic beer.

[monkfish]

I don't think Thaksin was born a ammarat in fact his first job was plain old policeman.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30125133.html

[whiterussian]

I don't think Thaksin was born a ammarat in fact his first job was plain old policeman.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30125133.html

His family were into Coffee weren't they?

maybe some other cash crops?

[way2muchcoffee]

I don't think Thaksin was born a ammarat in fact his first job was plain old policeman.

Hmm. Not really true is it? He was an 'officer' in the RTP. Saying he was a plain old policeman is not correct. It is like comparing a lieutenant to a private in the military. Not the same thing at all, especially in Thailand, as only connected families are able to get their sons into positions of power in either the military or the RTP. Moreover Thaksin's father was a wealthy businessman and MP for Chiang Mai. Please try to be more honest in your posts monkfish.

[PeaceBlondie]

The family were big in silk. They had built a successful family business. He was a lieutenant colonel.

[Pakboong]

He did not want Thais to have to compete with them in an open market so he worked to limit Chinese advantage. He apparently was aware of the Chinese business acumen and IQ advantage over the ethnic Thais.

nature/nuture.

Just a matter of time... IMO.

If you raise gold fish for a living. Keeping predators from your gold fish pond is a natural response.

There are those who argue that all fish should be welcome in the pond regardless of their motives.

Edited March 20, 2010 by Pakboong

[wayfarer108]

The family were big in silk. They had built a successful family business. He was a lieutenant colonel.

And he married the national police chief's daughter.

Col Thaksin has re-invented the term 'ammart' to obfuscate and serve an agenda. His chief 'ammart' target, Prem Tinsulanond, came from relatively humble circumstances and never achieved great wealth.

[Heng]

There are those who argue that all fish should be welcome in the pond regardless of their motives.

And there are those who argue that all goldfish need is a really good education and then they'll somehow overcome (or transform into) piranhas. Another variant is that the piranhas have some kind of conspiracy against the goldfish.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Class war in Thailand = new money vs old money

Found a picture to underline that..

[cognos]

..its not about the golden rule, its about who has the gold rules

signed: sad

[londonthai]

londonthai's analysis is correct: Thaksin chose to ally himself with the former enemies of Siam, the former people of Laos of Isaan, and that couldn't be tolerated by the Siamese.

you have completely misunderstood me, I am not a nationalist, I take back everything what I have said.

in no word I did mention any ethnic group.

working class, alike the capitalist class or even the feudalist one, is an international/cosmopolitan, above the state borders and ethnic devisions - it's the class interests which identify and bond them anywhere in the world.

the king of thailand is the king of all thai citizens (siameese, chineese, malay, khmer and tens of other smaller ethnic groups), taksin is a chairman of an international corporation (with offices and investments in thailand, china, UAE, UK and many other places), workers from thailand are slaving themselves all around the world, from bangkok, to London or dubai and don't have beef with their employers, other than they are short changed every time the pick up their wages.

[YanTree]

How can a man of such means be thought of as the representative of the poor and uneducated?

This is not impossible. Warren Buffet is one of the largest proponents of an increase on taxes of the rich in the US. Because one is rich does not mean he does not care about the poor. I'm not saying this applies to Mr. Shinegra, only that it is possible that it does.