Gasohol Issue, Yet Again....motorcycle, Please Help!

[CroBiker]

Ok,

On March 12th I stopped at Shell station in Phuket Town (Dibuk Rd). Asked for vPower for my motorcycle, no stock attendant says

Thought, never mind....still have enough petrol in the tank.

Went to Chalong shooting range and afterwards decided to stop at nearby Shell pump. Looking for 95 vPower, nothing....it doesn't exist! All of a sudden this petrol grade is no longer available anywhere on the island. Reserve light is on, got no choice, need to fill it up.

Attendant points to new product vPower Gasohol 95. I'm confused ....because there is another pump on same station selling Gasohol 95 (not vPower!). Reluctantly, I put 300 baht worth of fuel and been living in fear ever since....Heard horror stories what gasohol "tainted" gasoline can do to bike's rubber and plastic parts.

At my bike's tank clearly states "WARNING! USE 95+ OCTANE (RON) GASOLINE ONLY!"

I mean, what are my options now?

1. Is there any other gas station selling "normal" fuel?

2. How good or bad is this new vPower 95 gasohol compared to 95 gasohol sold by same oil company?

3. Few mechanics told me not to worry, use 91 if nothing else available while riding cross country. Others warn me against it, so many conflicting opinions

4. Rest of you big bike riders, what do you do in situation like this?

Please advise and thanks in advance.

[powderpuff]

Use 91 octane gasoline; not ethanol.

[neverdie]

Sorry Cro, there are no real answers here from my end, except its getting harder to find fuel, ive had similar problems myself at different times.

.....probably time for us all to upgrade to Honda Scoopy's.

[CroBiker]

Thanks for responses so far guys.

Powderpuff, I believe you ride ninja 250. Did you actualy use 91 and how would you describe bike performance?

What about Caltex Techron 95? Is it still on the market? As far as I know there is only 1 Caltex in Phuket (Kathu)?

According to Caltex website this product is available in LOS:

[cdmtdm]

Use 91 octane gasoline; not ethanol.

are you getting this at all petrol stations or just a few in Phuket ??? interesting post Croc ....

[LivinLOS]

Yeah I also hit a up a shell and wanted v Power 95.. They then went to put in v Power gasohol.. I explained cannot gasohol but they swore it wasnt.. Then someone else came along (different pump attendant) and clearly said it is Gasohol and they have dropped the normal 95.

They really dont care.. will chuck gasohol in anything if you let them..

[markg]

Use 91 octane gasoline; not ethanol.

are you getting this at all petrol stations or just a few in Phuket ??? interesting post Croc ....

The Esso station in Phuket Town and the PTT stations still sell regular 91. It seems to be just Shell that are pushing the gasohol only malarky.

I havent noticed any change in performance - but then again i ride a wave 125.

I am a bit concerned about the alleged destruction of rubber hoses etc so if i do put gasohol in, i tend to try to refill with 91regular at the next fill up.

Cro - i'd contact your bike manufacturer or dealer to see what they say.

As Thailand grows palm oil and also refines gasohol, there is the possibility that it will become harder and harder to find regular gasoline.

[SeanMoran]

At my bike's tank clearly states "WARNING! USE 95+ OCTANE (RON) GASOLINE ONLY!"

Here in Ban Chang, Rayong, I've been unable to obtain 95 octane benzine, since before Christmas, but I've learned to aim for the red bowsers when I pull into a station, for the 91 benzine, instead of 91 gasohol, which is at the green coloured pumps if my memory has woken up this early on a Saturday morning. My Honda doesn't seem to mind 91 or 95 benzine, but gets nauseous on gasohol, and so do I.

It's not a great deal of difference between 91 and 95, and regardless of the instructions on your tank, 91 isn't going to shatter your bigend bearings in a hurry, providing you ride politely on the throttle, and keep the revs nice and fast, not inflicting too much load on your donk at low revs, which is when lower octane might possibly contribute to pre-detonation or pinging, which is what stresses out your bigends.

[stevenl]

Shell does not have regular 91 anymore. So for regular 91, go to any gasoline station but Shell. For regular 95: AFAIK not available on Phuket anymore.

[katabeachbum]

At my bike's tank clearly states "WARNING! USE 95+ OCTANE (RON) GASOLINE ONLY!"

Here in Ban Chang, Rayong, I've been unable to obtain 95 octane benzine, since before Christmas, but I've learned to aim for the red bowsers when I pull into a station, for the 91 benzine, instead of 91 gasohol, which is at the green coloured pumps if my memory has woken up this early on a Saturday morning. My Honda doesn't seem to mind 91 or 95 benzine, but gets nauseous on gasohol, and so do I.

It's not a great deal of difference between 91 and 95, and regardless of the instructions on your tank, 91 isn't going to shatter your bigend bearings in a hurry, providing you ride politely on the throttle, and keep the revs nice and fast, not inflicting too much load on your donk at low revs, which is when lower octane might possibly contribute to pre-detonation or pinging, which is what stresses out your bigends.

Cro, your bike as most bigbikes older than 3 years, probably cant handle ethanol. gasohol E10 contains 10% and gasohol E20 contains 20% ethanol.

on the other hand your bike requires 95 octane RON, which is getting hard to find without ethanol. I would try to find some octane booster, and then run it on gasoline 91 with octane booster. 91 gasoline is available at most gas stations in Phuket

or get a new kwaker, which can run E10

[CroBiker]

Many thanks for additional replies!

I did check with Kawasaki Japan and they don't even have any gasohol over there, can't get any decent reply.

I didn't bother asking their Thai counterparts. Last time I called their BKK HQ some girl picked up the phone and spoke to me while she was eating ....disgusting! Hard to believe she would even know what I'm talking about.

I already resigned myself to the fact that I can kiss 95 goodbye but checked few other internet sources and found this:

First, it is the website of Energy Policy and Planning Office Thailand.

CLICK HERE

Prices and products effective up to March 10th 2010. Surprised to see there are at least 3 companies still selling ULG 95 RON, namely Caltex, PT and Susco. Click on the pic to enlarge and see for yourself.

Second; first hand experience (read: frustration) from Malaysian bike rider while visiting Thailand:

Gasahol vs Gasoline : Pumping for fuel in Thailand

Thailand has replace Regular 95 gasoline with 95 gasohol. Regular 91 gasoline are still allowed to survived but will be replace in stages until year 2012. So what is gasohol? And does it differ with our fuel?

Gasohol is actual a mixture of gasoline and alcohol, mostly ethanol. For the time being, Thailand gasohol is a mixture of 90% gasoline and 10% ethanol, coded E10. The mixture proportion is to be increase in later time. When? I don't have any idea. Can't read Thailand that good. Can't read Thailand at all!

Gasohol has been proven to have some disadvantages against gasoline. I experience 2 weird thing on my ZX10R while riding to Phuket early this month. Mr. Gibsi told me he felt his bike, which is the Kawasaki Z750s, underpowered after clocking 300km from Danok. I didn't really felt the effect since our riding pace are between 120-140km/h.

The first thing to be notice on the fuel is the color, looks like a Shell V-Power from the naked eye. It's set your mind that this fuel is already different.

The second thing is when we fuel up in Trang, I exposed my bike to a direct sunlight, with the temperature I guess that day felt like 32°C-33°C (or maybe higher). I've always fill up to the fuel reaches to the tank's lip. After just a few minutes, the fuel came out from the overflow pipe. This experience showed me the fuel is easily evaporated. An alcohol nature. From there I kept watch on where I parked my bike and always looking for a shaded area.

The third thing is while we on our way back to Danok from Phuket, we're on the highway 44 which is a long stretches of 100km going to Surat Thani. All five of us has a blast on our bike and my bike topped 300km/h with some effort to do so. On the 6th gear, when doing 260km/h, it felt like forever climbing to 300km/h. My bike are on a standard setup, and it never felt like this. So it is noticeable that the bike has loss some power. I do blame on the fuel. This prove to be right when we are back in Malaysia, after fueling at Petronas Bukit Kayu Hitam, then fill up again at Bukit Merah, the power come straight back again.

When we fill up at Pang Nga Shell Station on our way back, as always, I was just looking at the octane numbers. Kawasaki recommended a gasoline 95+ Octane and above for the ZX10R. So a pump with label 95 should do fine. Here, the pump attendant lift up the pump and said "Gasohol?". I'm a bit puzzle myself, if not, why do the pump attendant prompt me it's gasohol. Isn't it just a fuel? We didn't have any gasohol here, so what the heck gasohol actually is I really don't know. After safely arrived back only I did some digging on gasohol.

Digging on the web, there are no superbikes design to cope with gasohol. Manufactured vehicle for Thailand are actually design and approved to used gasohol since 1995. But bikes which are imported from Japan and Europe doesn't fit in the list.

So when riding in Thailand, it your not going for a long way journey, I think it should be safe to pump gasohol - for a short period. But if you planning a ride more than 10 fills up. Do try to look for gasoline.

Basic guide on the Thailand pump station is :

REGULAR 95 is labeled in YellowREGULAR 91 labeled in RedGASOHOL 95 label is OrangeGASOHOL 91 label in Green

Although this might not correct for all pumps, it is mostly true for most of them. Do try to fuel in Shell, Caltex or PTT which is mainly a reputable gas station. My tips is, if you're bike can accept Ron 90+ and above, go for the Regular 91. Check the sticker label on your bike's tank, or check your bike's manual. But I guess, I can't confirmed because I didn't really notice, the price for Regular 91 is much more expensive than gasohol 95. Wait... Yup it's true. I've just browse the Net. Reg 91 somewhere 29.54 Baht (RM 2.99) and E10 Gasohol 95 is 25.74 Baht (RM 2.61). Notice Regular 95 is 36.64 Baht (RM 3.72) and only available from Petronas, Caltex, Susco and PT.

While gasohol advantage is that it might produce less emission, studied about 2% less than gasoline, it is reported to give less power than gasoline and lower mileage. Gasohol is also not friendly to older fuel injection and carburetors, even a new fuel injection which is claim to resist gasohol, it is not design for it. This case are meant on a superbike. Carburetors are claim can be damage with use of gasohol either in short or long term use and not very friendly to the plastic parts of the carburetors.

In other countries, there are arguement of using gasohol. But the noticable argument is about the cost of gasohol compared to the gasoline and is the consumer likely to gain advantage in using gasohol which in some country priced gasohol at gasoline price tag.

Edited March 20, 2010 by CroBiker

[jonwilly]

Octane rating basically tells you or suggests, the maximum compression ration that the engine can can take with out Pre detonation or Knocking occurring.

Knocking takes place when lower octane fuel Explodes before the piston reaches Top Dead Center, theoretically the fuel does not ignite until piston is over the top of it's stroke TDC.

An engine with high a compression ratio requires the highest octane rating, normally 95 these days, tho in aviation 140 octane was one time available.

There is no greater Calorific value in 140 octane fuel then in 95 or 91 octane.

However in simple terms the more you compress the fuel, High Compression Ratio, then the more Bang you will get for your Buck or increased power.

Maximum Compression ratio is only obtained on full throttle so if you are forced to use, in an emergency, fuel of a lower octane number, avoid using a fully opened throttle, slow down use a lower gear and do not go for full throttle.

Less power but it will not harm the engine. Knocking will do damage.

Gasohol will attack the plastic/rubber parts of older engines. Modern engines especial the carburetor and fuel pipes are designed to be resistant to the 'Corrosive' effect of Gasohol.

The odd refuel with Gasohol will not have time to do damage to the fuel system, however continued use with do fatal damage.

john

[katabeachbum]

Octane rating basically tells you or suggests, the maximum compression ration that the engine can can take with out Pre detonation or Knocking occurring.

Knocking takes place when lower octane fuel Explodes before the piston reaches Top Dead Center, theoretically the fuel does not ignite until piston is over the top of it's stroke TDC.

An engine with high a compression ratio requires the highest octane rating, normally 95 these days, tho in aviation 140 octane was one time available.

There is no greater Calorific value in 140 octane fuel then in 95 or 91 octane.

However in simple terms the more you compress the fuel, High Compression Ratio, then the more Bang you will get for your Buck or increased power.

Maximum Compression ratio is only obtained on full throttle so if you are forced to use, in an emergency, fuel of a lower octane number, avoid using a fully opened throttle, slow down use a lower gear and do not go for full throttle.

Less power but it will not harm the engine. Knocking will do damage.

Gasohol will attack the plastic/rubber parts of older engines. Modern engines especial the carburetor and fuel pipes are designed to be resistant to the 'Corrosive' effect of Gasohol.

The odd refuel with Gasohol will not have time to do damage to the fuel system, however continued use with do fatal damage.

john

one tank (20 litres) of 95 gasohol by mistake, damaged the fuelsystem on my 2005 VTX 1800cc injection V-twin. clogged with black sh-t. picked it all apart, cleaned and it worked again. 4 sparkplugs where damaged by burnt black stuff, replaced in 3 weeks at 3000 baht from Singapore. Not available in LOS. so only ONE tank of gasohol can damage

highest octane rating in Europe is 98 RON, and fuel efficient 2010 models require this fuel to run perfect. knock sensor makes it possible to run 95 but with less power and lousy milage. these models are adapted to crap LOS fuel to be sold here when imported by authorized importers and sold by maindealers

[LivinginKata]

Moved to Bike forum at OP's request.

[mikebike]

Don't know if its old stock but I tanked up with 95 RON at the Lemon Green on Wisit in Rawai yesterday...

[katabeachbum]

Don't know if its old stock but I tanked up with 95 RON at the Lemon Green on Wisit in Rawai yesterday...

95 RON E10, E20 or E85?

[LivinLOS]

Betting gasohol..

[neverdie]

Down on power between 260km/h & 300km/h. wow

[makavelithedon]

Crobiker,

I've seen the Shell VPower in town. Whether it's a souped up 95 gasohol or genuine straight 95 I'm unsure.

Edited March 20, 2010 by makavelithedon

[ScubaBuddha]

This happened before here countrywide, but I can't seem to find the links on TV. I heard that the exotic car owners and clubs complained so much that they reversed it, yet now it's back.

Use 91 octane gasoline; not ethanol.

Yes I believe that is our only option now.

Gasohol seems to me to be a complete scam. They created it and tell us to use it because it saves energy and is cheaper. But if it's saving 5% of the oil used in processing, and it is 5 or 10% cheaper, but is 10% less efficient (in my experience my gas mileage suffers noticeably, at least 10%) then how is that doing anything but creating a net increase in oil use and actually costing the same or more at the pump? All the while diverting corn from feeding hungry people so that Americans can keep driving their Hummers!!!!

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/cont...0514_058678.htm

[LivinLOS]

Crobiker,

I've seen the Shell VPower in town. Whether it's a souped up 95 gasohol or genuine straight 95 I'm unsure.

Seems theres 2.. Original V Power was 95 gasoline, new stuff is 95 gasohol..

[CroBiker]

Appreciate your responses guys, thank you very much.

I:m gonna fill her up with 91 and post my experience as far as bike power and speed is concerned. Not having any illusions of hitting 200-250km/h easily but at least engine should be safe.

Edited March 20, 2010 by CroBiker

[SeanMoran]

Appreciate your responses guys, thank you very much.

I:m gonna fill her up with 91 and post my experience as far as bike power and speed is concerned. Not having any illusions of hitting 200-250km/h easily but at least engine should be safe.

Just treat her gently, mate - like you're dancing with her. Use the throttle gradually and keep the revs mid-range until you-re in full flight, and there's less chance of pinging/knocking/pre-detonation than if you open the throttle wide4 at low revs, particularly under heavy load.

A smart pilot can manage a bike healthy with low-octane, but it takes some caring sort of attention to the way you handle her.

[ALFREDO]

Needed now 4 mechanics and many cleanings of the carburators to let my aging 1992 or 1993 Honda 400 CBR Fire Blade smoothly running again, after a 14 month stop without driving.

Now I wanted to give her the best available 95 Octane Gasoline and I think accidentaly filled now with 95 Gasohol. What a shame!

When I read that thread, I should fast get rid of that filling.

I park now already 3 days, better I empty the tank at my friends place who sales by the bottle and try to fill him with real 95 Octane Gasoline no Gasohole!

Never ending problems here!

[ScubaBuddha]

Needed now 4 mechanics and many cleanings of the carburators to let my aging 1992 or 1993 Honda 400 CBR Fire Blade smoothly running again, after a 14 month stop without driving.

Now I wanted to give her the best available 95 Octane Gasoline and I think accidentaly filled now with 95 Gasohol. What a shame!

When I read that thread, I should fast get rid of that filling.

I park now already 3 days, better I empty the tank at my friends place who sales by the bottle and try to fill him with real 95 Octane Gasoline no Gasohole!

Never ending problems here!

One cycle of gasahol isn't going to hurt anything. Don't worry about it.

[ALFREDO]

-Scuba Buddha-

Thanks for advice, I hope so.

[katabeachbum]

Appreciate your responses guys, thank you very much.

I:m gonna fill her up with 91 and post my experience as far as bike power and speed is concerned. Not having any illusions of hitting 200-250km/h easily but at least engine should be safe.

If your bikes ignition timing is adjustable, you could adjust to avoid knocking. reduces power approx 10%, but engine survives

[Jimi007]

Does anyone know the actual color of the gasahol and gasoline? Not the pump color. I used to buy jugs of 91 for my bikes and it was red. Now I see more yellow, is this the gasahol? Is 91 and 95 octane the same color? I had read something about new colors for fuels. So just wondering.

[aitch52]

There was another thread on that but can't find it Jimmy, 91 gasoline now has a goldy yellowish tinge, it was announced in early february. Selling it in whisky bottles in the shops, careful not to drink it!!

Edited March 21, 2010 by aitch52

[saorsa]

I\ve been using 95 gasahol since i bought my bike last July (new harley). Havnt had any issues although i do feel i get get better throttle response and MPG if I uset Vpower. I only use 10% ethanol mix though (I checked manual and 10% is ok, but 20% no good)