Foreign Teachers: Thousands To Be Recruited

[moebius]

hmm....messed up my tags. Sorry folks...

Anyway Rumpie, I don't take any offense to your comments as the derogatory generalizations here are abound and aplenty. I'm just a little touchy about backpacks....I love my backpack.

er...

[Ajarn]

hmm....messed up my tags. Sorry folks...

Anyway Rumpie, I don't take any offense to your comments as the derogatory generalizations here are abound and aplenty. I'm just a little touchy about backpacks....I love my backpack.

er...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Funny how just the word 'backpacker' can really set many off here

I've been a backpacker, and hired a number of them as teachers in the past. Just people, is all, in my view.

Frankly, I might be more suspicious sometimes of the 'luggagepackers'

[moebius]

hmm....messed up my tags. Sorry folks...

Anyway Rumpie, I don't take any offense to your comments as the derogatory generalizations here are abound and aplenty. I'm just a little touchy about backpacks....I love my backpack.

er...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Funny how just the word 'backpacker' can really set many off here

I've been a backpacker, and hired a number of them as teachers in the past. Just people, is all, in my view.

Frankly, I might be more suspicious sometimes of the 'luggagepackers'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey hey...now you're slagging my luggage!

...wait a minute! I don't own any luggage!

[marios]

I have always wondered how a foreign teacher can be able to teach primary school pupils without any verbal link existing between them. How on earth does one begin to teach when there is no way of communicating with each other?

In the case of secondary education where the children may have some knowledge of English,this I can understand, but primary school? In a distant village where even the Schoolmaster let alone the rest of the village cannot speak English? How can this be done?

I am not in education myself so I do not know,there must be a satisfactory answer to my questions.

Back to the main theme, I can only visualise young people with a strong sense of adventure. For them it will be a transient phase of their life nothing to expect other than a survival exercise.

I could understand it if there was a prospect of permanence,not a 3 month at a time thing. Neither the pupils nor the teacher will take the thing seriously.

One final point, if they could make arrangements for the spouse of the teacher to accompany him/her then things might have a better chance.

[moebius]

I have always wondered how a foreign teacher can be able to teach primary school pupils without any verbal link existing between them. How on earth does one begin to teach when there is no way of communicating with each other?

In the case of secondary education where the children may have some knowledge of English,this I can understand, but primary school? In a distant village where even the Schoolmaster let alone the rest of the village cannot speak English? How can this be done?

I am not in education myself so I do not know,there must be a satisfactory answer to my questions.

Back to the main theme, I can only visualise young people with a strong sense of adventure. For them it will be a transient phase of their life nothing to expect other than a survival exercise.

I could understand it if there was a prospect of permanence,not a 3 month at a time thing. Neither the pupils nor the teacher will take the thing seriously.

One final point, if they could make arrangements for the spouse of the teacher to accompany him/her then things might have a better chance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I am a big proponant of contextual teaching. Making connections visible and audible then trying to place usage into everyday living is difficult, but you get better at it as time goes by.

Many of my teacher friends beat this into my head over the years. And last fall Dave Hopkins, TEFLInternational, demonstrated this for me wonderfully just last fall by teaching our class primary colours in Portugeuse, greetings, etc.,...basic foundations. It also demonstrated to me the value in taking courses to improve one's own teaching methods.

So, if Thailand develops a rapid advance-aging cloning program I'm sure I could swing the production into China and also get them a couple of hundred thousand or more of Dave's t-cells while he is marking students.

As for retention, well that's an ongoing debate. One does have to use the language to improve. But early years exposure to second (and third and fourth) languages does improve the odds if Thailand is actually thinking of bilingual education.

I agree with you on the permanence and the spousal arrangements. Many schools can't afford dual visa fees etc....there should be more incentives from the government itself.

[Crushdepth]

One of the problems with schemes like these is that each Ministry is a law unto itself, and they don't cooperate very often. It's fine for education to come up with a scheme like this one, but immigration won't lift a finger to make it happen.

Last time the call was for IT professionals...

[Plus+]

Many of my teacher friends beat this into my head over the years. And last fall Dave Hopkins, TEFLInternational, demonstrated this for me wonderfully just last fall by teaching our class primary colours in Portugeuse, greetings, etc.,...basic foundations. It also demonstrated to me the value in taking courses to improve one's own teaching methods.

Don't get over excited here. Teacher trainers do something like this on every course. It works ok when you do it for five years with adults who try to their best to pick up your teaching methods and you don't go beyond simple stuff like colors or greetings.

Children are very different.

[Donno]

I think it would be a great idea if they hired all the "native speakers" from the Philippines as this would put an end to them applying for jobs at my language school.

[otherstuff1957]

OK, here's my .666 baht: This proposal is actually a good idea and would work with the following modifications:

1) The MOE will have to supply the Work Permits and Visa's. Your average upcounty Primary School or Matthayom wouldn't even know where to start getting these organized for foreign teachers.

2) Forget about the random rotation every 3 months. If a teacher wants to try a new location, they can have the option of moving at the semester break.

3) Work with the MOE/Ed. Dept/etc... in the US/UK/Aus/Can... to recruit fresh Ed. graduates from universities.

4) Give each new teacher a two week (at least) crash course in Thai Language and Culture.

5) Supply the teachers with photocopyable textbooks that have instructions for the students written in both English and Thai!

6) Hire some professional, well paid liason people who are fluent - or at least adequate - in both Thai and English and have them travel around the country visiting the various schools. These people could tell the teachers what the school Administration expects from them and vice versa. Without someone like this to translate, the teachers will be working a vacume, without any idea whether they are doing well or badly.

7) Give the teachers teaching assistants who have at least a little knowledge of English.

[sriracha john]

OK, here's my .666 baht:  This proposal is actually a good idea and would work with the following modifications:

1)  The MOE will have to supply the Work Permits and Visa's.  Your average upcounty Primary School or Matthayom wouldn't even know where to start getting these organized for foreign teachers.

2)  Forget about the random rotation every 3 months.  If a teacher wants to try a new location, they can have the option of moving at the semester break.

3)  Work with the MOE/Ed. Dept/etc... in the US/UK/Aus/Can... to recruit fresh Ed. graduates from  universities.

4)  Give each new teacher a two week (at least) crash course in Thai Language and Culture.

5)  Supply the teachers with photocopyable textbooks that have instructions for the students written in both English and Thai!

6)  Hire some professional, well paid liason people who are fluent - or at least adequate - in both Thai and English and have them travel around the country visiting the various schools.  These people could tell the teachers what the school Administration expects from them and vice versa.  Without someone like this to translate, the teachers will be working a vacume, without any idea whether they are doing well or badly.

7)  Give the teachers teaching assistants who have at least a little knowledge of English.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sorry, but you forget one...

8) Make sure the bong is clean before putting it away and then return to bed and enjoy the rest of the nice dream.

[otherstuff1957]

OK, OK, I was dreaming!

Here's my favorite (that's favourite for all of you ENGLISH purists) suggestion:

Hire a few thousand overage Bar Girls as teaching assistants! Think about it: They usually speak English better than Thai English Teachers and they're tough enough to control 50 kids without any problem.

[Rumpole]

OK, here's my .666 baht:  This proposal is actually a good idea and would work with the following modifications:

1)  The MOE will have to supply the Work Permits and Visa's.  Your average upcounty Primary School or Matthayom wouldn't even know where to start getting these organized for foreign teachers.

2)  Forget about the random rotation every 3 months.  If a teacher wants to try a new location, they can have the option of moving at the semester break.

3)  Work with the MOE/Ed. Dept/etc... in the US/UK/Aus/Can... to recruit fresh Ed. graduates from  universities.

4)  Give each new teacher a two week (at least) crash course in Thai Language and Culture.

5)  Supply the teachers with photocopyable textbooks that have instructions for the students written in both English and Thai!

6)  Hire some professional, well paid liason people who are fluent - or at least adequate - in both Thai and English and have them travel around the country visiting the various schools.  These people could tell the teachers what the school Administration expects from them and vice versa.  Without someone like this to translate, the teachers will be working a vacume, without any idea whether they are doing well or badly.

7)  Give the teachers teaching assistants who have at least a little knowledge of English.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is more or less what they do in Japan on the JET Scheme. I just cannot see the Thais ever being that organized. The visas/work permits in particular are a big sticking point. The Japanese have also realized that they have to pay a reasonable salary in order to attract a large enough pool of applicants, whereas the Thais, as ever, will want to do things on the cheap.

Edited May 27, 2005 by Rumpole

[Ajarn]

The visas/work permits in particular are a big sticking point.  The Japanese have also realized that they have to pay a reasonable salary in order to attract a large enough pool of applicants, whereas  the Thais, as ever, will want to do things on the cheap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't believe the WP's and immigration stuff HAS to be difficult. If you read the labour law under 'exemptions', you'll see that they can make any exceptions they want, anytime they want... I'll bet immigration has the same loopholes, and my experience is that many government laws have these same loopholes throughout, giving far greater flexibility than we might think. A big part of the power brokering system, I feel. And an easy road for corruption to follow, obviously.

[danintrang]

Very interseting topic. Education in Thailand makes me so upset sometime. I can see wonderful intelligent people learning "how not to learn". Whole village greating foreigners with "Hello my name is Tom" and so on... I live now between 2 schools and can hear them repeat all together the same things day after day without learning anything. The proposition of the ministry of education is great, but when T...sin recommend the people not to look at English TV, I'm quite pessimistic. So sad.

Is London far from England?

What state of America is Switzerland?

(University level)

High school English teacher asking me: "Name you? - Name you?"

So sad.

How much does it cost to have a good education in Thailand? I mean just learning? I think their problem is just they learn not to learn. Group thinking, no individual thinkink allowed. Thinking is bad for you. Just watch chanel 7 and shut-up.

I see many teachers in this forum. Where are you teaching? I guess mostly in private school.

I'm upset, because I think that Thai people desserve a better education.

[Rumpole]

The visas/work permits in particular are a big sticking point.  The Japanese have also realized that they have to pay a reasonable salary in order to attract a large enough pool of applicants, whereas  the Thais, as ever, will want to do things on the cheap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't believe the WP's and immigration stuff HAS to be difficult. If you read the labour law under 'exemptions', you'll see that they can make any exceptions they want, anytime they want... I'll bet immigration has the same loopholes, and my experience is that many government laws have these same loopholes throughout, giving far greater flexibility than we might think. A big part of the power brokering system, I feel. And an easy road for corruption to follow, obviously.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can read the Labour Law until you are cross-eyed, but the practicalities of actually getting a work permit bear little resemblance to anything enshrined in the legislation. So much depends upon intangibles such as which office you are dealing with, who you speak to in that office, what he or she had for breakfast and even his or her attitude towards farang in general. Of paramount importance, I think, is how much assistance your employer is prepared to offer in helping to navigate the minefield, and what kind of relationship they have with the various government departments. Given the reluctance of so many Thai schools to do much more than point you in the direction of the different offices which require your presence, the teacher - particularly the new arrival in country - is left floundering in a sea of red-tape.

As has been pointed out above, each ministry is a law unto itself and there is very little cooperation between the various departments involved in the Byzantine process of ensuring that foreigners are legally resident and employed in the country. Indeed, I would venture to suggest that they are often working in total opposition to each other.

Unless there is some public pronouncement from the very top to ensure that any participant in this hypothetical, pie-in-the-sky scheme is allowed to take advantage of any hypothetical, officially-sanctioned loophole, what guarantee is there that this will actually be enforced at grass-roots level? Of course, they could do the same as most other "teachers" in Thailand and simply work illegally on toursist visas. I'm sure that this is what the Thais would prefer anyway. We don't want 10,000 farang getting too comfortable, now do we? Buddah forbid.

Edited May 27, 2005 by Rumpole

[Artisi]

and - do you really think that the work permit office's and immigration could actually handle an extra 10 000 farangs every three months changing their w/permits and renewing visa's - as it is proposed that the teachers will change schools / locations every three months - by law this means new w/prmits and visa renewal. COMPLETE pie-in-the-sky statement from another politician - opening mouth before engaging brain.

[Plus+]

The "English teaching" problem was already solved two years ago by thousands of retired teachers from the US who jammed Thai visa consulates for this once in a lifetime opportunity to sit in the squat toilets and eat lots of chillies that are a lot cheaper than in the West.

This project is an Elite card by MoED. It can only get better.

Edited May 27, 2005 by Plus+

[PeaceBlondie]

Mai kojai. I've learned only about 21 words of Thai, but those two seems very helpful. Concerning the subject of farang teaching English in Thailand:

Khun thaksin, mai kojai. Minister of education, mai kojai. Teachers of English in Thai schools, same. Myself, same.

We do not know, we will not know, we cannot know.

good night.

[stepenwolf1958]

10,000 native speakers ....WHY NATIVE ONLY???? ...needed to boost primary level English-language skills

The Education Ministry is to recruit 10,000 native English speakers to teach primary school students at government schools nationwide.

Advertisements will be posted on the ministry’s website, with Thai embassies assisting in selecting candidates. Applicants must at least hold a bachelor’s degree.

“We offer a one-year contract and free accommodation,” Education Minister Adisai Bodharamik said yesterday. The expatriate teachers would be sent to upcountry schools, he said.

They would mainly be sent to primary schools with less than 200 students, he added.

“During their one-year contract, we will rotate [them] to new schools four times so that they will see new things every few months and won’t get bored while staying here,” he said. He also believed that students would pay fresh attention to their class when new teachers arrive....someone will tell him WHY farangs teaching there,anyway?

Adisai said Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra agreed in principle with the plan to employ native English speakers because it would help boost students’ command of English. So far, he said budget for the plan had not yet been finalised.

The education minister was speaking after he visited a school in Hanoi.

During his trip to Vietnam, Adisai met with his Vietnamese counterpart, Nguyen Minh Hien. The Vietnamese minister promised to support his plan to convene meetings of Asean education ministers a few times each year. The meetings would aim to promote educational co-operation among countries in the region.

Thailand has offered to host the first meeting.

Adisai added that Vietnam government had expressed interest in educational services provided at various Thailand-based institutions such as Ramkhamhaeng University, Chulalongkorn University and Kasetsart University.

He planned to invite his Vietnamese counterpart to visit Thailand in the near future.

Vietnam’s vice education minister Tran Van Nhung expressed confidence that Thailand and Vietnam would be able to learn from each other’s educational system and drew out the best management plan for their own country.

Asked about Vietnamese students’ talents in science, he said the tip was to have great teachers.

Thammarat Kijchalong

The Nation

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[stepenwolf1958]

“During their one-year contract, we will rotate [them] to new schools four times so that they will see new things every few months and won’t get bored while staying here,” he said. He also believed that students would pay fresh attention to their class when new teachers arrive....someone will tell him WHY farangs teaching there,anyway?

Adisai said Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra agreed in principle with the plan to employ native English speakers because it would help boost students’ command of English. So far, he said budget for the plan had not yet been finalised.

Thailand has offered to host the first meeting.

Vietnam’s vice education minister Tran Van Nhung expressed confidence that Thailand and Vietnam would be able to learn from each other’s educational system and drew out the best management plan for their own country.

Asked about Vietnamese students’ talents in science, he said the tip was to have great teachers.WOW,WHAT A STORYYYYY....

Thammarat Kijchalong... ...MAN IS LOST IN SPACE,REALLY...

[stepenwolf1958]

and - do you really think that the work permit office's and immigration could actually handle an extra 10 000 farangs every three months changing their w/permits and renewing visa's - as it is proposed that the teachers will change schools / locations every three months - by law this means new w/prmits and visa renewal.  COMPLETE pie-in-the-sky statement from another politician - opening mouth before engaging brain....THE BEST DESCRIBED EDUCATION POLITIC I EVER HEARD BUD...BRAVO...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[~G~]

During their one-year contract, we will rotate [them] to new schools four times so that they will see new things every few months and won’t get bored while staying here,” he said. He also believed that students would pay fresh attention to their class when new teachers arrive.

10,000 teachers? rotating every 3 months? Quick calculation - That's at least 40,000 jealous girlfriends a year.

Edited June 1, 2005 by ~G~

[PeaceBlondie]

The important man at the MoE, Minister Adisai himself, said these words (see page 1, post #1) on 22 May. Ten days now, and he's had time to fly back from Hanoi or Ho Chi Minh City. Ahh, the website of the MoE will surely have posted details about this.

Or maybe it's just something the good Khun Dr. Honorable Adisai thought of while staring straight ahead at the urinal in Vietnam, that he could tell the reporters waiting outside.

Does anybody care to make a 100-baht bet that we won't here about this, at least not in the 10,000 range, ever again?

Oh, don't forget that 90-day rotation would leave a lot of unhappy Thai boyfriends behind, also.

[makavelithedon]

I'd just like to know with the huge shortages in Native teachers throughout Asia as it is, how this minister thinks he is going to tempt so many to switch? I've done a year plus at primary level and the six 2- hour trips to immigration where you are treated worse than a dog (and that's hard here) along with pay- which can only be considered a joke and non-existant anything else in benefits and who would want to even do it?

As with most non-brothel addicted teachers I'm off elsewhere. Until standards are raised about 1000% it's as described by so many others here-nothing more than hot air by another Thai politician.

M.

[lung]

TAMAI ??

why only natives...

i am german ,and when i talk with an native

i can't follow ... ok so 80% na..

i think for talk is a non-native for a thai better...

but for write and ? ...

whatever... now i can not write what i want because >>>

kon jjoeraman

[kenkannif]

^ And that's why they want native speakers mate

[Mister Fixit]

The rotation plan is a disaster in the making.  Schools already have problems and disappointments with teachers who drop out every few weeks under the current system; stability is needed more than "freshness." 

...

This announcement raises a lot of questions; no doubt not one of them were raised before anyone important prior to the announcement.

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I could not agree more with the first part of this lengthy post.

I, for one, would not want to get established in a school and settled in a home nearby, then to find myself uprooted from the routine I had established for myself and my pupils.

And I would NOT want to find myself dozens or hundreds of Kilometres away from where I was either.

[wilko]

Rotate??? I choose where I work, not the Thai Govt or anyone else.

[spencer]

I don't understand why none of the posters have answered any of the questions about current pay in various areas . I ask because I was offered 30,000 baht a month plus an "apartment" at a government school off of Sukhumvit. This was about 6 years ago. At around the same time I was told that the Native speakers at Chaing Mai University were getting about the same. Another guy I know that used to teach in Bangkok was only offered 300 baht a day to teach at a small govt school in Chiang Mai. I know any where close to 20,000 baht a month in my wife's village would be a great income. Any one out there care to through out some numbers of what is actually being paid in differant parts of Thailand and differant types of schools? So far the only rate i know for certain is the one i was offered 6 years ago.

[IsaanAlex]

Believe it or not Spencer the pay is pretty much the same as your were offered 6 years ago-minus the housing.