Thai Red Shirts Lap Up Urban Support

[fatfather]

It is end of dry season, the farms are down, the poor are out of job and money. Then there is an offer to go Bangkok to cheer the red shirts for 500 Baht each. Half my village went to make a short holiday and took the 500. The same game when there are elections......

:D

[jdinasia]

I'm cheering for the reds. I am disappointed that they seem to have so little support from the whites in Thailand online. Could it be that a large percentage want to see a largely disenfranchized majority of the population? It does help fill the brothels they rely on for affection and ensures an available workforce of domestic servants that work for peanuts.

I'm also disappointed by our Canadian political and media elite. Supposedly we are at war in Afghanistan because of our deep faith in democracy. If we in Canada have so much faith in democracy why are we so silent on behalf of the heroes that are trying to restore it to Thailand ?

Thanks!

I am sure you didn't mean to be humorous but you really cracked me up! To suggest that people that do not favor the reds is as nasty as to suggest that those that do favor the reds married bargirls. Both are just

crap suggestions.

Perhaps you should read up on modern Thai political history then tell us more about 'restoring' democracy to Thailand

[Credo]

A fair number of reds do not support Thaksin. But people in general, and Thais in particular, need a leader to look up to. He is/was a hero for many and as such will remain at the fore of the movement. Without him, it will begin to fracture even more than it already has.

The point is, his relevance is decreasing within the movement. Even if they win and he is somehow allowed to return without going to jail (unlikely), there are institutions in place that would prevent him from resuming the premiership easily. Those agencies and institutions won't go away nor will the laws, rules and regulations of the country unless there is a civil war and that is looking less likely.

New people will rise to the top in leadership roles (in all parties). Hopefully they will listen to the wants and needs of the people.

You can be pro-red, anti-Thaksin and anti-coup. It's not possible to turn back the clock of time.

[way2muchcoffee]

A fair number of reds do not support Thaksin. But people in general, and Thais in particular, need a leader to look up to. He is/was a hero for many and as such will remain at the fore of the movement. Without him, it will begin to fracture even more than it already has.

The point is, his relevance is decreasing within the movement. Even if they win and he is somehow allowed to return without going to jail (unlikely), there are institutions in place that would prevent him from resuming the premiership easily. Those agencies and institutions won't go away nor will the laws, rules and regulations of the country unless there is a civil war and that is looking less likely.

New people will rise to the top in leadership roles (in all parties). Hopefully they will listen to the wants and needs of the people.

You can be pro-red, anti-Thaksin and anti-coup. It's not possible to turn back the clock of time.

The problem is that the stated aim of the redshirt leaders is to revert to the 1997 constitution, exonerate Thaksin of all charges, and allow him to resume the role of PM. It doesn't matter what other worthy goals they may have as long as these are are included in their platform. It isn't even clear what their platform is beyond the goals related to Thaksin.

Edited March 21, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Phil Conners]

A clear majority of those waving and cheering were working-class and lower-middle-class people, highlighting the growing disquiet over class inequality among the poor as well as indicating class solidarity.

I'm not surprised the Thai lower classes are getting upset with the extreme disparity between rich and poor in this country. What surprise me is they think Thaksin is going to help their struggle one bit.

[Tony121]

Its all about Thaksin and nothing else, just seems the reds are now putting any name to the protests to try and attract more people.

[xenomorph]

Well done Reds - did an excellent job. Just shows the support they have in Bangkok - more than some people on TV thinks.

I wonder if the bystanders really support the red shirts. The majority doesn't seem to have any red shirts on. Or are the just curious, having a big smile just so they won't get into a fight or whatever. Looking at the expensive cars some are driving, especially the one with the "Poor Man" sticker, really keeps me wondering why the poor are buying this. It's just as if George Bush were ousted and the arranging a parade in Washington to support the poor, where the majority of the cars were limousines, Porsche, Ferrari, etc.

For the sake of this country, I really hope that this Pro-Thaksin movement will lay down slowly die.

Edited March 21, 2010 by xenomorph

[d0om4gloom]

A fair number of reds do not support Thaksin. But people in general, and Thais in particular, need a leader to look up to. He is/was a hero for many and as such will remain at the fore of the movement. Without him, it will begin to fracture even more than it already has.

The point is, his relevance is decreasing within the movement. Even if they win and he is somehow allowed to return without going to jail (unlikely), there are institutions in place that would prevent him from resuming the premiership easily. Those agencies and institutions won't go away nor will the laws, rules and regulations of the country unless there is a civil war and that is looking less likely.

New people will rise to the top in leadership roles (in all parties). Hopefully they will listen to the wants and needs of the people.

You can be pro-red, anti-Thaksin and anti-coup. It's not possible to turn back the clock of time.

Well said. Thaksin is a figurehead for a movement that needs one but very much part of the past. The only reason he is important is that he was undemocratically remove from power by a military coup supported by the elite. Too many Nation readers don't look any further than the propaganda put in front of them.

Think about it a little. There are some very intelligent people on both sides who will try to deliver their own propoganda messages. Despite a largely anti-red media here we finally see an article that recognises the reds do have grass roots support.

[Jerrytheyoung]

A fair number of reds do not support Thaksin. But people in general, and Thais in particular, need a leader to look up to. He is/was a hero for many and as such will remain at the fore of the movement. Without him, it will begin to fracture even more than it already has.

The point is, his relevance is decreasing within the movement. Even if they win and he is somehow allowed to return without going to jail (unlikely), there are institutions in place that would prevent him from resuming the premiership easily. Those agencies and institutions won't go away nor will the laws, rules and regulations of the country unless there is a civil war and that is looking less likely.

New people will rise to the top in leadership roles (in all parties). Hopefully they will listen to the wants and needs of the people.

You can be pro-red, anti-Thaksin and anti-coup. It's not possible to turn back the clock of time.

The problem is that the stated aim of the redshirt leaders is to revert to the 1997 constitution, exonerate Thaksin of all charges, and allow him to resume the role of PM. It doesn't matter what other worthy goals they may have as long as these are are included in their platform. It isn't even clear what their platform is beyond the goals related to Thaksin.

The day the Reds have declared the class war, they have opened a Pandora box, and launched a huge machinery. The environment is ideal: drought in The Northern Thailand, price of rice, industry -insolently booming and contrasting with the Northern poverty, leading class focusing only on the industrial development and not taking seriously into account the revendications of the rural population...we are in a dynamic situation, forget about the 1997 Constitution, it is the past, new developments are on going: the only question is; "Is the Current Government able to defuse the situation, particularly by doing the required concessions to Rural population, reducing the insolent wealth gap between Thais?"

The Center of Gravity of the revendication is shifting quickly, it is not sure that the Reds will be able to control the situation until the end. Thaksin is less and less the center, and may finished sidelined, but at least he will have gotten his revenge on his ennemies....

[Rudey]

I think the article has nailed it with "lower middle" - after our petrol experience yesterday my wife concluded the supporters appeared to people who hadn't obtained a degree (of course there'll be exceptions).

Speaking of which, this movement is lacking in an area of support every other political movement seems to have featured which has lead to political upheaval - widespread support from the students. Will be interesting to see if they achieve it without them.

"People who hadn't obtained a degree"??????

Degree of what? If you/she were referring to education, what does that have to do with anything. A person does not need a degree, to have a voice and/or intelligence.

In a lot of cases, they only need money to get that "degree" and with enough money they don't even need the intelligence.

[way2muchcoffee]

The day the Reds have declared the class war, they have opened a Pandora box, and launched a huge machinery. The environment is ideal: drought in The Northern Thailand, price of rice, industry -insolently booming and contrasting with the Northern poverty, leading class focusing only on the industrial development and not taking seriously into account the revendications of the rural population...we are in a dynamic situation, forget about the 1997 Constitution, it is the past, new developments are on going: the only question is; "Is the Current Government able to defuse the situation, particularly by doing the required concessions to Rural population, reducing the insolent wealth gap between Thais?"

The Center of Gravity of the revendication is shifting quickly, it is not sure that the Reds will be able to control the situation until the end. Thaksin is less and less the center, and may finished sidelined, but at least he will have gotten his revenge on his ennemies....

Perhaps you are right. However it should be noted that the government has done a great deal to effect the lives of the poor and downtrodden

1) Initiated a sustainable and equitable crop-scheme

2) Transformed the '30 baht death card' into a sustainable universal health policy

3) 15 years free education to all - including tuition, books, lunches, and uniforms

4) Increased the stipend for elderly and disabled persons living in poverty

5) Formed low interest loans through legitimate banks to help those under the thumb of loan sharks

6) Free education through university for disable people

7) Continued to make loans available to anyone through the village loan scheme

8) Currently investigating ways to tax wealthy landowners and land profiteers through land tax

9) Challenged corruption in any government ministry wherever it was found

10) Allowed peaceful protests without violent crackdown (unlike their predecessors)

11) Paid water bills for all families, up to about 500 bt

All this was done in 1 year. The PTP were in power for the same period and achieved nothing at all. What more, short of just handing out fistfuls of money to each household, do you expect the government to do?

Edited March 21, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Artisi]

I think the article has nailed it with "lower middle" - after our petrol experience yesterday my wife concluded the supporters appeared to people who hadn't obtained a degree (of course there'll be exceptions).

Speaking of which, this movement is lacking in an area of support every other political movement seems to have featured which has lead to political upheaval - widespread support from the students. Will be interesting to see if they achieve it without them.

And what does having or not having a degree got to do with anything, especially considering most Thai degrees are at about senior high school level in any developed country.

[favre360]

"A clear majority of the sympathisers appeared to be street vendors, clerks, waitresses, hotel cooks, security guards, taxi drivers, motorcycle-taxi riders, and local residents coming from the more congested and poorer parts of Bangkok."

You forgot hookers...

[morphem]

I'm cheering for the reds. I am disappointed that they seem to have so little support from the whites in Thailand online. Could it be that a large percentage want to see a largely disenfranchized majority of the population? It does help fill the brothels they rely on for affection and ensures an available workforce of domestic servants that work for peanuts.

I'm also disappointed by our Canadian political and media elite. Supposedly we are at war in Afghanistan because of our deep faith in democracy. If we in Canada have so much faith in democracy why are we so silent on behalf of the heroes that are trying to restore it to Thailand ?

At last a sensible and realist post.

I'll say exactly the same about my country, France.

Good luck to the reds for getting their country back

[sangfroid]

Sounds like the managers of the MRTA are pro-Abhisit.

I can also confirm plenty of supporters out in Ramkhamhaeng.

There was a big crowd of supporters at the sii yaek Huay Khwang as well.

[xenomorph]

I'm cheering for the reds. I am disappointed that they seem to have so little support from the whites in Thailand online. Could it be that a large percentage want to see a largely disenfranchized majority of the population? It does help fill the brothels they rely on for affection and ensures an available workforce of domestic servants that work for peanuts.

I'm also disappointed by our Canadian political and media elite. Supposedly we are at war in Afghanistan because of our deep faith in democracy. If we in Canada have so much faith in democracy why are we so silent on behalf of the heroes that are trying to restore it to Thailand ?

At last a sensible and realist post.

I'll say exactly the same about my country, France.

Good luck to the reds for getting their country back

Did you mean "restoring the Thaksin way of democracy"?

One for you, nine for me. One for you, nine for me...

How can yo ever combine "democracy" with Thaksin? He've been systematically plundering this country. Threatening the media. Locking out officials from their work, when they started to investigate the approved payment for bills to the government. How can you ever use the D-word over this situation that is solely about his ego and greed?

Edited March 21, 2010 by xenomorph

[fullcave]

If the Reds really want to be seen as Pro Democracy, then they need to dump Thaksin and his cronies

Democracy? Be careful what you wish for...

Nisit Sinthuprai, a leading member of the DAAD in the Northeast, said a recent meeting of red-shirt supporters from 121 organisations in the region had proposed strategies to eliminate "bureaucratism".

The methods, including a refusal to pay tax, a sanction against goods and services from businesses related to bureaucrats - especially Bangkok Bank - and a voluntary "resignation" from being Thai by people returning their ID cards, would soon be proposed to the central DAAD committee.

source - http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...n-30125187.html

[Stjohnm]

A brilliant move on the part of the Red Shirts. I am sure this is quite unsettling for the elites. In my neighborhood, which is predominantly yellow--or so the inhabitants thought--the maids, gardeners, vendors, motorcycle taxi drivers and others were noticeably absent. How sad to see the neighbor having to open her own gate!

You'd think she'd get a remote operated gate opener installed especially for the W/E

[rreddin]

Sounds like the managers of the MRTA are pro-Abhisit.

I can also confirm plenty of supporters out in Ramkhamhaeng.

Last week at Pratunam there were plenty of people cheering and clapping. It's difficult to know if they have majority support but this is a very significant movement. It's really about money, when you consider Thailand is actually quite a wealth country, the amount spent on the population is derisory.

I dont see how Abhisit can defuse the tension unless he includes some moderate red shirt leaders or pro red shirts politicians in his cabinet !

And he does it fast . Can he ?

Funny. I thought the red apologists considered the Nation to always tell a pack of lies. Fancy That!

So, now we are down from 1 million to 65,000.

Less than attend a Manchester United football match.

They pay £45 a ticket and a more partizan bunch of supporters you will not find (me included).

65,000 in a caravan of motor vehicles is very impressive by any standards. The organisers and police should be praised for the way in which this was handled.

Edited March 21, 2010 by rreddin

[jdinasia]

"A clear majority of the sympathisers appeared to be street vendors, clerks, waitresses, hotel cooks, security guards, taxi drivers, motorcycle-taxi riders, and local residents coming from the more congested and poorer parts of Bangkok."

You forgot hookers...

be nice!

200 people cheering was a good thing for them! A massive number of supporters! hel_l! 200 could even topple a government!

[morphem]

"A clear majority of the sympathisers appeared to be street vendors, clerks, waitresses, hotel cooks, security guards, taxi drivers, motorcycle-taxi riders, and local residents coming from the more congested and poorer parts of Bangkok."

You forgot hookers...

be nice!

200 people cheering was a good thing for them! A massive number of supporters! hel_l! 200 could even topple a government!

200 000 people cheering was a good thing for them! A massive number of supporters! wtg! 200 000 will even topple a dictatorship!

Your quote needed updating m8

[jdinasia]

"A clear majority of the sympathisers appeared to be street vendors, clerks, waitresses, hotel cooks, security guards, taxi drivers, motorcycle-taxi riders, and local residents coming from the more congested and poorer parts of Bangkok."

You forgot hookers...

be nice!

200 people cheering was a good thing for them! A massive number of supporters! hel_l! 200 could even topple a government!

200 000 people cheering was a good thing for them! A massive number of supporters! wtg! 200 000 will even topple a dictatorship!

Your quote needed updating m8

Care to show any of us the photography showing more than a meager showing of support for the reds during their march? Oh wait ... that won't be happening unless you are particularly good with photoshop!

but welcome back!

[stingray]

Actually not my country, so i can't really talk about politics, as we all are only guests in LOS.

But can someone tell me what PM A. made wrong? He tried to help many poor peaples for free elctricity up to 300 Baht, He try to set a minimum price for fruits and vegetables that the poor farmers not get squizzed by the "middle man dealers". He done manything, but nobody ever speak the good part of PM. A. on this forum.

Do you really think foregin investors would invest money in big amounts overhere, when mister T. comes in power again?

[morphem]

"A clear majority of the sympathisers appeared to be street vendors, clerks, waitresses, hotel cooks, security guards, taxi drivers, motorcycle-taxi riders, and local residents coming from the more congested and poorer parts of Bangkok."

You forgot hookers...

be nice!

200 people cheering was a good thing for them! A massive number of supporters! hel_l! 200 could even topple a government!

200 000 people cheering was a good thing for them! A massive number of supporters! wtg! 200 000 will even topple a dictatorship!

Your quote needed updating m8

Care to show any of us the photography showing more than a meager showing of support for the reds during their march? Oh wait ... that won't be happening unless you are particularly good with photoshop!

but welcome back!

Help yourself :

http://www.pantip.com/cafe/rajdumnern/topi...0/P9016480.html

thanx for the welcome

[jdinasia]

looks like fairly meager support to me ... a few people waving (same people in a couple of the photos) and more people gawking ... and not a sign of the waterbottles thrown at them etc.

[jesimps]

I still can't believe how partisan, to one side or the other, farang are on this site. Whoever is in power, it'll make not the slightest difference to our lot in Thailand. Let the Thais get on with it for goodness sake.

[Jingthing]

I still can't believe how partisan, to one side or the other, farang are on this site. Whoever is in power, it'll make not the slightest difference to our lot in Thailand. Let the Thais get on with it for goodness sake.

I think you're wrong. I think a megalomaniac like Thaksin coming back to power would be a disaster for the country, including foreigners.

[Dodobird]

The massive 20-kilometre-long red-shirt motorcade around Bangkok Saturday proved beyond doubt that many working-class and lower-middle-class people in the capital support the red shirts, as they came out in force to wildly cheer the caravan as if their liberators had arrived.

Really? I was in taxis traveling in Thonburi and Bangrak most of yesterday. Red-shirt vehicles were kept in constant motion throughout the city to create the impression that large numbers of red-shirts were everywhere simultaneously. The people "wildly cheering" were red-shirts who had been pre-positioned at the major intersections through which the caravans were passing. At 4:30 PM on Sathorn and Surasak, you could see groups of red-shirts being deployed in advance to greet the caravan when it crossed the Taksin bridge. Aside from these staged groups of supporters, I saw nothing to indicate that Bangkok residents were "out in force" -- in fact, the impression I got was exactly the opposite. Driving along kilometers of the caravan routes, I saw very few local residents paying any attention to the red-shirts at all.

All in all, a very well orchestrated facade.

excellent script writer....btw I was there. I strongly believes that Bangkokians didn't it straight from their heart.

[morphem]

I think you're wrong. I think a megalomaniac like Thaksin coming back to power would be a disaster for the country, including foreigners.

I think you're wrong. I think a Popular PM like Thaksin coming back to power would be a Blessing for the country, including foreigners.

Updated

[jonclark]

Just to add my two cents worth to the support discussion. I was out on Suk 71 at about 4:30 ish. The reds seemed to be fairly well received in the area and all good natured. Lot's of local s sat around waving anything red in the air and cheering on the parade. However many of the motorcycles were driving down, suk 71, and then turning around and doing the whole circuit again. Not the cars only the motorcycles.

Overall congrats to the reds. Speaking to the locals they weren't really massive supports of the reds but were just there to see what was going on, and when someone waved or honked at them they cheered back. Overall whilst many people may disagree with the politics, i have to say the spirit of the carnival showed the best of Thai people, lots of smiling faces and lots of sanook .

Obviously traffic for the rest was a f**king disaster, but the reds and onlookers had a great time on suk 71. Note to Japutporn. Next time have your parade during Songkran and load up with water it will be mental!!and i'll join in.