Red Shirts To March On Bangkok Streets Again

[Wolfie]

Once the announcement was made they plan to march again next Saturday a hastily made flyer to plan a meeting in my village arrived on all the gates. It seems if they plan to venture into our little slice of Bangkapi again next Saturday they will NOT be met with waves and they will not be able to pass without a lot of extra effort. Some in the meeting are suggesting we look into hiring Private Security to bar them from entering the area at all. I doubt they (the Reds) could possibly be stupid enough to tempt fate again by taking the same route, but if they do there will be a very different greeting from areas like ours that have already been through this nonsense once... time to pack up the smelly fish and sticky rice and go home.

Sounds like you want to provoke violence to a peaceful protest....

So one group is allowed to protest, but another isn't? Can't they protest that they are sick of their lives being disrupted?

That's pretty much BM's position on this, yes... If you are not a red then you are the enemy

[khunken]

He's 'croaking' some good points. But I hope and believe that Thais -- being the tolerant and amenable people that they are -- will find a way to sort this out without revolution. The social conditions behind all this are well summarised in the Bangkok Post today:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/econom...closing-the-gap

This states that Thailand is one of the most unequal countries in Asia, with the top 20% owning 69% of the wealth, while the bottom 20% have only 1%. Then look at the figures for annual income per capita broken down by region: the northeast is way below the other regions, though of course there are poor people in all parts of the country. The reds have an excellent case; the only argument I'd have with them is over their choice of leader, but Thaksin is the only leader who ever did anything for these ignored people. It might be nice if some of you (relatively) rich farangs stop insulting the reds and their supporters, calling them country bumpkins or whatever. These people have a good case and know what they're doing. They just want a chance to vote and then have the result respected. The same chance that many of us have in our countries.

I thought links to BKK Post articles was a no-no on TV.

Your points about ownership of the wealth of Thailand are correct. What you fail to mention is that Thaksin's TRT contained a substantial number of wealthy businessmen who are a major part of the problem. In fact that wasn't enough for them because they had to cream off government projects to stuff their pockets with more lucre. The red shirts have a case but only when they disconnect themselves from Thaksin & his cronies.

[britmaveric]

That's pretty much BM's position on this, yes... If you are not a red then you are the enemy

Not really, but as much as one hates to be inconvenienced I think its a better option to let them do their thing since at the end of the day it does no harm

[markokang]

I still can't really understand why Thais are fighting over who they want to F* them over, whatever color government wins the average Thai will surely be shafted once again!

They all should be fighting over 1 issue and that is corruption, its the basis of all problems in Thailand (and other countries for that matter)... stick together and denounce corruption...

[moresomekl]

Bring me any red shirt able to prove he/she knows Exim is not an exotic dish and Temasek a DIY brand and I will start to listen to him/her.

Until then, I just see them as manipulated folks serving the cause of a greedy, dictator-to-be billionaire on the run. They simply do not understand the game they are used for.

My factory staff is tuned all day long on a red shirts radio. Speechs would make you feel like you were listening to a Rwandese radio days before it went ugly.

Not good to insult the people.

By the way, when we, French, made the revolution in 1789, I'm pretty sure that some wise men like you told "the populace will never be able to manage the country". But we did! With difficulties yes but France is now a proud country with a stable government.

Same in USA when they expelled the British.

What are you Croaking about..??????

He's 'croaking' some good points. But I hope and believe that Thais -- being the tolerant and amenable people that they are -- will find a way to sort this out without revolution. The social conditions behind all this are well summarised in the Bangkok Post today:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/econom...closing-the-gap

This states that Thailand is one of the most unequal countries in Asia, with the top 20% owning 69% of the wealth, while the bottom 20% have only 1%. Then look at the figures for annual income per capita broken down by region: the northeast is way below the other regions, though of course there are poor people in all parts of the country. The reds have an excellent case; the only argument I'd have with them is over their choice of leader, but Thaksin is the only leader who ever did anything for these ignored people. It might be nice if some of you (relatively) rich farangs stop insulting the reds and their supporters, calling them country bumpkins or whatever. These people have a good case and know what they're doing. They just want a chance to vote and then have the result respected. The same chance that many of us have in our countries.

The Philippines i think is arguably more unequal then Thailand . But you are right in essence . I think the reds have a good cause if only they would stop insisting on a blank cheque for Thaksin . If they did so PTP would join up with them and win the election .

If election there is .... But sooner or later has to be

[gemini81]

All this babbling about the same old topics of who is right and wrong. Both are right and both are wrong. No such thing as black and white in politics.

The point here is that next saturday we can expect more of the same!! This is going to inconvienience a lot of people who have lives to live and need to get out and about. I think if this happens then you can expect far worse gridlock next saturday and tempers getting frayed. It wouldn't surprise me to see a counter demonstration held at the same time.

Hopefully this announcement is just a barganing ploy by Jatuporn, as he sees Abhisit isn't budging on his precondition for talks. Hopefully it will amount to nothing and they will all sit down and discuss the future

exactly, this same old song and dance shows they have a long way to go toward total democracy. some shirt bearers don't really know what that term means, though they use it a lot. Really both sides have have done wrong things...but, look how long it took eurpope and other countries to find peace and agreement.

[Wolfie]

That's pretty much BM's position on this, yes... If you are not a red then you are the enemy

Not really, but as much as one hates to be inconvenienced I think its a better option to let them do their thing since at the end of the day it does no harm

But should people be 'inconvenienced' enough to make a stand and say "No" - they are obviously planning to do violence, in your opinion?

(and we are talking Thai on Thai here... no farangs involved)

[webfact]

Thai protesters vow to 'shut down' Bangkok on Saturday

BANGKOK (AFP) -- Thailand's red-shirted protesters vowed to "shut down" the capital Bangkok with a new anti-government rally this Saturday aimed at forcing fresh elections.

The supporters of deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra began mass demonstrations on March 14 with a gathering of more than 100,000 people, triggering a massive security operation involving 50,000 personnel.

Their numbers waned during the week but a carnival-style parade on Saturday drew around 65,000 protesters in a noisy procession through the streets of Bangkok.

"On Saturday we will shut down Bangkok and rally at provincial halls across the country," said Jatuporn Prompan, a leader of the "Red Shirts", who last week splattered the prime minister's home and offices with their own blood.

Jatuporn did not give further details but said Saturday's event would be similar to last weekend's one, in which a convoy of peaceful protesters snaked through the capital, causing traffic congestion in some areas.

He said the movement had cancelled plans to demonstrate outside a cabinet meeting being held at a ministry on the outskirts of Bangkok on Tuesday, saying such a protest would have been used by the government to justify a crackdown.

Another protest leader, Veera Musikapong, reiterated demands for talks with Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, rejecting the prime minister's offer of negotiations with a junior minister.

"He is the one who can dissolve the house," he told protesters at their encampment in the city's old quarter. "Free and fair elections will decide our future and end the political conflict, and everybody must accept the result."

-- ©Copyright AFP 2010-03-22

Published with written approval from AFP.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[lannarebirth]

Once again, congrats to the Red Shirts for keeping things peaceful. And while the blood thing was nasty and wrong, it was at least a non-violent act that succeeded in getting them some international press (although perhaps not the type they wanted).

However they don't seem to have sort of end game. Its clear they aren't going to get what they originally wanted, or what they pretended to want. What do they hope to achieve?

democracy instead of military dictatorship

Simple as that

I often wonder what percentage of the pro Thaksin element here at TV were even here for all of Thaksin's premeirship. It sure didn't feel much like a democracy then.

[britmaveric]

^feels even worse now under the current regime.

[moresomekl]

Corruption in politics always that uggly hydra .

Solution

1) Increase by 400% salaries of MP and ministers . I think this motion should sail through parliament

2) Anyone found corrupted (give or take) , 5 years jail no bail , and prevented from participating in politics for life

Corruption in politics exist in Europe , as all over the world . Just make sure that you dont get caught !

[bulmercke]

That's pretty much BM's position on this, yes... If you are not a red then you are the enemy

Not really, but as much as one hates to be inconvenienced I think its a better option to let them do their thing since at the end of the day it does no harm

But should people be 'inconvenienced' enough to make a stand and say "No" - they are obviously planning to do violence, in your opinion?

(and we are talking Thai on Thai here... no farangs involved)

Not quite. On Saturday I saw on two occasions farangs in the back of pick-ups protesting with the red shirts. One was a young woman - in her twenties - and the other a male in his late thirties/forties. They were not together. They were definitely not "look kreung".

Weird but true!

[moresomekl]

Once again, congrats to the Red Shirts for keeping things peaceful. And while the blood thing was nasty and wrong, it was at least a non-violent act that succeeded in getting them some international press (although perhaps not the type they wanted).

However they don't seem to have sort of end game. Its clear they aren't going to get what they originally wanted, or what they pretended to want. What do they hope to achieve?

democracy instead of military dictatorship

Simple as that

I often wonder what percentage of the pro Thaksin element here at TV were even here for all of Thaksin's premeirship. It sure didn't feel much like a democracy then.

Well it was evil against evil . hope at the end some good come out of it

Edited March 22, 2010 by moresomekl

[PokerFace]

Every person I saw on the street was shaking their head in disgust!!

[bulmercke]

Once again, congrats to the Red Shirts for keeping things peaceful. And while the blood thing was nasty and wrong, it was at least a non-violent act that succeeded in getting them some international press (although perhaps not the type they wanted).

However they don't seem to have sort of end game. Its clear they aren't going to get what they originally wanted, or what they pretended to want. What do they hope to achieve?

democracy instead of military dictatorship

Simple as that

I often wonder what percentage of the pro Thaksin element here at TV were even here for all of Thaksin's premeirship. It sure didn't feel much like a democracy then.

You're right. I remember going to Lumpini Park on a Friday evening - around 2006 - to observe one of the first anti-Thaksin/anti-government gatherings - other than a few that had previously taken place at Thamasat and there was a real and palpable climate of fear then.

The protesters there - were in my opinion very brave. There was a huge - over the top - police presence. This was when the judiciary were in Thaksin's pocket and there were no longer any organisations or bodies acting as a 'check and balance' to the rampant authoritarianism that the country was in the grip of.

In short - it was terrible.

[moresomekl]

That's pretty much BM's position on this, yes... If you are not a red then you are the enemy

Not really, but as much as one hates to be inconvenienced I think its a better option to let them do their thing since at the end of the day it does no harm

But should people be 'inconvenienced' enough to make a stand and say "No" - they are obviously planning to do violence, in your opinion?

(and we are talking Thai on Thai here... no farangs involved)

Not quite. On Saturday I saw on two occasions farangs in the back of pick-ups protesting with the red shirts. One was a young woman - in her twenties - and the other a male in his late thirties/forties. They were not together. They were definitely not "look kreung".

Weird but true!

Perhaps they thought it was a van bound to Pattaya

[WinnieTheKhwai]

That's pretty much BM's position on this, yes... If you are not a red then you are the enemy

Not really, but as much as one hates to be inconvenienced I think its a better option to let them do their thing since at the end of the day it does no harm

But should people be 'inconvenienced' enough to make a stand and say "No" - they are obviously planning to do violence, in your opinion?

(and we are talking Thai on Thai here... no farangs involved)

Wolfie, you're putting words in his mouth instead of trying to get clarity in each others points of view. He responded to the following text, and the (in his opinion) veiled hint of violence in it:

It seems if they plan to venture into our little slice of Bangkapi again next Saturday they will NOT be met with waves and they will not be able to pass without a lot of extra effort. Some in the meeting are suggesting we look into hiring Private Security to bar them from entering the area at all. I doubt they (the Reds) could possibly be stupid enough to tempt fate again by taking the same route, but if they do there will be a very different greeting from areas like ours

The first time you said 'if you're not red than you're the enemy' which CLEARLY was not what BM said at all, and then a second time doubting there was a hint of violence.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Once again, congrats to the Red Shirts for keeping things peaceful. And while the blood thing was nasty and wrong, it was at least a non-violent act that succeeded in getting them some international press (although perhaps not the type they wanted).

However they don't seem to have sort of end game. Its clear they aren't going to get what they originally wanted, or what they pretended to want. What do they hope to achieve?

democracy instead of military dictatorship

Simple as that

I often wonder what percentage of the pro Thaksin element here at TV were even here for all of Thaksin's premeirship. It sure didn't feel much like a democracy then.

.. Mr. Experience.. (I've been here long enough to recognize the state we're back in now since the coup. It's VERY similar to the Banharn and Chavalit years following the coup before that.)

[moresomekl]

Supposing there is election soon , Thaksin dont have a political party anymore .

and he cant come back or will be arrested

Has PTP joined the red shirt protest ? Not heard of it .

What then ?

[landofthefree]

The reds haven't worked out how to get a reaction from the government, so they keep on pressing.

They got a few people out waving at them on the weekend, so they think there is support there??

For a city of 10 million people, quite a few who come from the north/north east, you would think they would have got a couple of million out on the streets supporting them.

But, no. They even got people abusing them in some areas.

I think next week there will be even more abusing them.

I was on the streets with them on Sunday noone was abusing them just lots of them on the streets.Have you actually seen/talked to or watched any red shirts ?

[anotherpeter]

The reds haven't worked out how to get a reaction from the government, so they keep on pressing.

They got a few people out waving at them on the weekend, so they think there is support there??

For a city of 10 million people, quite a few who come from the north/north east, you would think they would have got a couple of million out on the streets supporting them.

But, no. They even got people abusing them in some areas.

I think next week there will be even more abusing them.

I was on the streets with them on Sunday noone was abusing them just lots of them on the streets.Have you actually seen/talked to or watched any red shirts ?

I didn't see any. Just my thoughts based on news reports and other comments here on TV.

I didn't say they were being abused every where, but there were reports of them being abused in some places.

There were reports such as yours saying there was support. Reports from others regarding extra support at major intersections (makes sense, since they come in from other areas). Also, reports of people being blase about it (ie just happened to be there and watching).

From all of these reports I can glean a view that there wasn't overwhelming support for the parade. Even where there was support, it didn't seem like there were a lot of people, not the sort of numbers that would convince me that there was anything like majority support.

[homebody]

Bring me any red shirt able to prove he/she knows Exim is not an exotic dish and Temasek a DIY brand and I will start to listen to him/her.

Until then, I just see them as manipulated folks serving the cause of a greedy, dictator-to-be billionaire on the run. They simply do not understand the game they are used for.

My factory staff is tuned all day long on a red shirts radio. Speechs would make you feel like you were listening to a Rwandese radio days before it went ugly.

Not good to insult the people.

By the way, when we, French, made the revolution in 1789, I'm pretty sure that some wise men like you told "the populace will never be able to manage the country". But we did! With difficulties yes but France is now a proud country with a stable government.

Same in USA when they expelled the British.

Don't forget that Thaksin corrupted lots and lots of billions baths. and billions of money he paid during his fugitive, plus lots billions for his position i many countries i every continentals.

[ovenman]

^feels even worse now under the current regime.

Would that be "feels even worse now here in the UK under the Gordon Brown regime"?

[Old Man River]

Every person I saw on the street was shaking their head in disgust!!

Same here.

I can't understand how the leaders of the Red Shirts think the people of Bangkok are so dumb that they would join them. After all, it was just less than two weeks ago that Jatuporn et. al. were saying a million people were coming to burn down Bangkok.

Now, Jatuporn is saying on Saturday they are going to shut Bangkok down. Now, that sounds like an offer nobody in Bangkok can refuse.

[Insight]

Every person I saw on the street was shaking their head in disgust!!

Same here.

I can't understand how the leaders of the Red Shirts think the people of Bangkok are so dumb that they would join them. After all, it was just less than two weeks ago that Jatuporn et. al. were saying a million people were coming to burn down Bangkok.

Now, Jatuporn is saying on Saturday they are going to shut Bangkok down. Now, that sounds like an offer nobody in Bangkok can refuse.

In all fairness OMR we did see a few people supporting them, but as mentioned previously, they were petrol station staff and motorbike taxis. My significant other let her feelings known with the staff, but the one serving us (until that point at least!) insisted they hadn't received anything. Whether true or not...?

But for sure, where we each work now and where we both worked before together - red support is very thin on the ground. Frankly their unwillingness to negotiate is yet again another reminder who they really serve (as if we needed it).

[z9999]

My wife received a call from one of her friends who went to Bangkok, and she was crying wanting to come home but couldn't because they are still holding her ID card which she had to give up when she received her money. I'm hoping she will call again as my wife didn't ask her if they were paying her additional money to remain. I don't think she was that much of a Thaksin supporter, or had much interest in politics, but 2000 baht beats what she earned working at home, and it looked like easy money.

[Old Man River]

Every person I saw on the street was shaking their head in disgust!!

Same here.

I can't understand how the leaders of the Red Shirts think the people of Bangkok are so dumb that they would join them. After all, it was just less than two weeks ago that Jatuporn et. al. were saying a million people were coming to burn down Bangkok.

Now, Jatuporn is saying on Saturday they are going to shut Bangkok down. Now, that sounds like an offer nobody in Bangkok can refuse.

In all fairness OMR we did see a few people supporting them, but as mentioned previously, they were petrol station staff and motorbike taxis. My significant other let her feelings known with the staff, but the one serving us (until that point at least!) insisted they hadn't received anything. Whether true or not...?

But for sure, where we each work now and where we both worked before together - red support is very thin on the ground. Frankly their unwillingness to negotiate is yet again another reminder who they really serve (as if we needed it).

In a city this size there will always be some willing to join anything, although I wouldn't be surprised in this case if it wasn't family or friends of those marching.

I know of no one who supports these guys, who somehow really think that if Thaksin returns their lives will be any better. They will be worse off right away because they would lose the money they are being paid to come to Bangkok and protest.

[Insight]

Well sure enough a video of the reds has appeared with some flower throwing and interesting captions.

Make what you will.

[keemapoot]

We should probably keep some perspective about the alleged level of "Bangkok support."

If 2/3s of the country's populace is NE Isaan folk, then it makes sense to assume that a large proportion of the Bangkok people who were cheering on the Reds would also be from that region. Furthermore, we know that almost all the service class, taxis, house cleaners, common laborers, etc., are from that region, and that Bangkok certainly utilizes these folks in these roles as well.

So..., to state that the "Bangkok people" showed support is not true. I guess it is true to the extent that you count absolute numbers..., and I guess that is what the Red's and Thaksin's argument is all about. There is no way the Red shirts do not win in any absolutely pure numbers-based democratic election. However, that is not how democratic systems work in many democratic countries, including the USA, which utilizes the electoral college system.

[anotherpeter]

We should probably keep some perspective about the alleged level of "Bangkok support."

If 2/3s of the country's populace is NE Isaan folk, then it makes sense to assume that a large proportion of the Bangkok people who were cheering on the Reds would also be from that region. Furthermore, we know that almost all the service class, taxis, house cleaners, common laborers, etc., are from that region, and that Bangkok certainly utilizes these folks in these roles as well.

So..., to state that the "Bangkok people" showed support is not true. I guess it is true to the extent that you count absolute numbers..., and I guess that is what the Red's and Thaksin's argument is all about. There is no way the Red shirts do not win in any absolutely pure numbers-based democratic election. However, that is not how democratic systems work in many democratic countries, including the USA, which utilizes the electoral college system.

"There is no way the Red shirts do not win in any absolutely pure numbers-based democratic election. "

Not sure what you mean here. You have written that the red shirts WOULD win - "no way" they would "not win" - a numbers based election.

But in the 2007 election they got similar numbers of votes to the Democrats, and certainly not the majority of votes.