The $25,000 Question

[kobesunset]

Hi Friends,

I have been travelling to Thailand for the past 5 years or so and also have a Thai wife. I live and work in Japan and I am in the rat race right now. Would like to get out and stop working for the man. I would like to know, if you had $25,000 or about 800,000 baht to start a business in Thailand what would you do? I'd like to get a brain storming session started here. All ideas welcome. Thanks everyone.

[Slaps]

I'd like to get a brain storming session started here

800k is not allot mate, what are you expecting to do with that and anyone with a gem of an idea are not going to say, are they?

Have you thought of a noodle stall for the wife

[MrRichard2009]

My wife and her friend have recently started selling curtains and installing them, It cost next to nothing but time and business cards, they are making about 100,000 per month after 6 months and it gets better each month so far. They took a gov sponsored class i'm sure your wife could take... it was free .... sub contractors do all the work they just measure the windows and the subs make them and install them. Mind you it's 100k but they only work on weekends and not even every weekend. It's worked out a LOT better than I expected and seems to be getting better, faster and easier. No overhead at all , no shop, customer pays a deposit that is used to pay for curtains and installing, it's pretty sweet really.

[gotlost]

With that kind of money you mite get a bar....

[Soutpeel]

25k is not a lot of money to base your future on, I certainly wouldnt be investing this in Thailand

[Slurp]

You have an interesting situation - it's actually similar to mine. I have been working around the globe as business-technology management consultant, now wanted to settle in Thailand (have Thai wife and infant). Manage to buy them a new bungalow (wife owns it 100%) and have set aside financial provision for wife to invest/run her business. She is considering the various business options - an on-going phase.

I presume in your case, for 800K baht, and based on my current research, there are a number of formal options - from perspectives of partnership (e.g. Thai:non-Thai management) or sole ownership/investment (e.g. via your Thai wife):

- Small/Medium size Retail space such as Coffee Shop or Minimart.

- Restaurant.

- Bar.

- Massage!

- English Language School!

- Farming!

You need to think of a number of details... some of these are:

- location (Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Phuket, etc),

- footfall (customer numbers daily weekly monthly yearly),

- marketing and leveraging on promotions and events,

- supplier network/relationship,

- revenue - historical and forecast,

- cashflow - historical and forecast,

- one-time costs (refurbishment/set-up needs...),

- operational costs (supplier payments, wages, utilities, depreciation of assets, insurances, taxes and regulatory deduction...)

- contigency (because of this you should target 80% of your allocation for any immediate investment)

- integration and business improvement (for example dont just do rice farming integrate and improve productivity and profits with fish farming and solar farming and work with goverment agencies, including the newly formed National Farmers Council and leverage on their help and subsidies)

- 1 year and 5 year plans (the long term plan is equally important as in a way it set puts your future dream, e.g. a public-float).

- risk analysis (e.g. rice farming and drought what this means to finance)

I know the above may sound scary! But you have to start somewhere - Mr Bill Gates sacrificed his university education to pursue his vision. BTW he's reported to be the current #2 richest man on planet earth; has had his #1 spot taken over.

Do PM me if you want a further e-discussion... cheerio...

PS. You will need to have a work permit to actually work on an operational business. The work permit can leverage on the potential business investment which may itself require a non-Immigrant B visa.

[gotlost]

25k is not a lot of money to base your future on, I certainly wouldnt be investing this in Thailand

Ah come on I want to unload one of my money making beer bars.

[Soutpeel]

You have an interesting situation - it's actually similar to mine. I have been working around the globe as business-technology management consultant, now wanted to settle in Thailand (have Thai wife and infant). Manage to buy them a new bungalow (wife owns it 100%) and have set aside financial provision for wife to invest/run her business. She is considering the various business options - an on-going phase.

I presume in your case, for 800K baht, and based on my current research, there are a number of formal options - from perspectives of partnership (e.g. Thai:non-Thai management) or sole ownership/investment (e.g. via your Thai wife):

- Small/Medium size Retail space such as Coffee Shop or Minimart.

- Restaurant.

- Bar.

- Massage!

- English Language School!

- Farming!

You need to think of a number of details... some of these are:

- location (Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Phuket, etc),

- footfall (customer numbers daily weekly monthly yearly),

- marketing and leveraging on promotions and events,

- supplier network/relationship,

- revenue - historical and forecast,

- cashflow - historical and forecast,

- one-time costs (refurbishment/set-up needs...),

- operational costs (supplier payments, wages, utilities, depreciation of assets, insurances, taxes and regulatory deduction...)

- contigency (because of this you should target 80% of your allocation for any immediate investment)

- integration and business improvement (for example dont just do rice farming integrate and improve productivity and profits with fish farming and solar farming and work with goverment agencies, including the newly formed National Farmers Council and leverage on their help and subsidies)

- 1 year and 5 year plans (the long term plan is equally important as in a way it set puts your future dream, e.g. a public-float).

- risk analysis (e.g. rice farming and drought what this means to finance)

I know the above may sound scary! But you have to start somewhere - Mr Bill Gates sacrificed his university education to pursue his vision. BTW he's reported to be the current #2 richest man on planet earth; has had his #1 spot taken over.

Do PM me if you want a further e-discussion... cheerio...

PS. You will need to have a work permit to actually work on an operational business. The work permit can leverage on the potential business investment which may itself require a non-Immigrant B visa.

Was reading this with interest till I realised have written a load of tosh.....With reference to your last sentance.....you actually need your non-imm B or Non-imm O before you get the WP....

Also Bill Gates didnt start Microsoft up in Thailand...

OP be careful on TV, as there are people who will talk you into "business ventures" and you could end up loosing the the lot...dont trust anyone..farang or Thai... with your cash....

Just to pick up on a couple of the business' suggested above:

1. Bar.....done to death by Farangs in Thailand

2. Massage....done to death

3. Minimarts & coffee shops.....done to death

4. Restaurant...asumming Thai, Western...done to death

see where I am going with this.....the advice here aint that smart....eg poster has put a property in wifeys name...

[VocalNeal]

Kobe,

What line of work are you in?

Heed what others say here.

[ExpatJ]

25k is not a lot of money to base your future on, I certainly wouldnt be investing this in Thailand

Thai stock exhange- its booming right now (despite the unrest)- i have made a 12.7% return on my investment in the last 2 months alone. Just read up , do some research , and i recommned you learn how to read the various 'charts' (relative strength, MACD etc). I'm amazed at the success (luck??) i have been having, lets see if it lasts.

[Powerband]

There's a lot you can do with 800k baht...don't listen to the naysayers.

It's easier though if you break down your options:

1) retail

2) office B2B

3) manufacturing

4) etc...

sometimes it better when you start with a smaller amount, its those things you learn along the way that takes a 100k investment into a 1 M baht profit down the road.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Powerband

[manarak]

You can try out a concept of mine:

Try to find a small, well located block with street access from both sides (front & back) and rent/acquire the ground floor.

This is especially good if there is no convenient passage from one street to the other nearby - then make a passage through your space, this will attract lots of people.

There make 4 separate businesses organised around a central office:

- minimart + meat, groeries

- bar with pool tables, snacks

- restaurant

- internet café with snacks, drinks

Staff can be shared across the businesses, and you should have some nice scale effects (common inventory of beverages, choice of food for bar and restaurant from unsold groceries, common kitchen, shared staff costs, etc.)

In Thailand, the same business rules apply as elsewhere: even if many others are doing the same thing - if you do it better, you will succeed.

Then there is the minor headache of getting the business organized so that your thai partners (your wife included) can't throw you out at any moment and keep your $$$.

Edited March 24, 2010 by manarak

[Soutpeel]

In Thailand, the same business rules apply as elsewhere: even if many others are doing the same thing - if you do it better, you will succeed.

Or get burnt down, shot at...sorry for being cynical but this aint Kansas..... Toto...

[fiddlehead]

I saw a farang up in Issan once who bought one of those kiddie rides you see at festivals.

It all packed down and fit in his pickup truck.

He didn't make a lot of money but he said it was enough to live on up in Issan anyway.

He was an ex-US army guy from the Viet Nam war and had been doing it for a while i believe.

At least if it doesn't work out, you could sell it and probably recoup your money.

A bar is the last thing i would think of.

Even if successful, you will most likely end up an alcoholic.

I think a very small successful business is better than a big money loser anyday. (and most farangs who come over here to make money, end up with the latter)

[Phuket Stan]

I saw a farang up in Issan once who bought one of those kiddie rides you see at festivals.

It all packed down and fit in his pickup truck.

He didn't make a lot of money but he said it was enough to live on up in Issan anyway.

He was an ex-US army guy from the Viet Nam war and had been doing it for a while i believe.

At least if it doesn't work out, you could sell it and probably recoup your money.

A bar is the last thing i would think of.

Even if successful, you will most likely end up an alcoholic.

I think a very small successful business is better than a big money loser anyday. (and most farangs who come over here to make money, end up with the latter)

Whats that old adage ..."If you want to make a small fortune in Thailand make sure you bring a large one with you when u arrive "

[ericthai]

In Thailand, the same business rules apply as elsewhere: even if many others are doing the same thing - if you do it better, you will succeed.

Or get burnt down, shot at...sorry for being cynical but this aint Kansas..... Toto...

And dont forget the tea money that needs to be paid!

Dude be careful in Thailand with your money,A thai's job is to get your money, your job is to try and keep it.

[Naam]

You can try out a concept of mine:

Try to find a small, well located block with street access from both sides (front & back) and rent/acquire the ground floor.

This is especially good if there is no convenient passage from one street to the other nearby - then make a passage through your space, this will attract lots of people.

There make 4 separate businesses organised around a central office:

- minimart + meat, groeries

- bar with pool tables, snacks

- restaurant

- internet café with snacks, drinks

Staff can be shared across the businesses, and you should have some nice scale effects (common inventory of beverages, choice of food for bar and restaurant from unsold groceries, common kitchen, shared staff costs, etc.)

In Thailand, the same business rules apply as elsewhere: even if many others are doing the same thing - if you do it better, you will succeed.

Then there is the minor headache of getting the business organized so that your thai partners (your wife included) can't throw you out at any moment and keep your $$$.

and that with a starting capital of $ 25,000?

[Jonathanpattaya]

Don't bother.

You simply won't be able to make any money on a small investment like that.

Remember that anything small scale has been done in Thailand already and it has been done to death.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Jonathanpattaya

[BillR]

my second business here, I built a small 3meterx3meter concrete food "shack", fully equipped for about 200,000 baht in total investment. I built the mini-restaurant located outside of a very busy bar. It makes around 25k a month which isn't much, but on your budget done 4 or 5 times over you'd be making a decent amount.

alternatively, I would rent a shop house and live above your business. To save baht.

[deejah]

Don't bother.

You simply won't be able to make any money on a small investment like that.

Remember that anything small scale has been done in Thailand already and it has been done to death.

yes but...

has is it been done well?

offer QUALITY product and/or service along with value and you are bound to succeed

example

there are 10-20 massage shops in my neighborhood with new ones springing up all of the time

one of the newest ones is beautiful with top notch masseuses and low competitive prices

i can pick from many but i choose them and keep going back

also look at the businesses that do well while others aren't

ask and answer why and you will be on the right track

i saw some businesses flourish during a very bad economic downturn

these are models to follow and learn from

[fletchsmile]

25k is not a lot of money to base your future on, I certainly wouldnt be investing this in Thailand

Thai stock exhange- its booming right now (despite the unrest)- i have made a 12.7% return on my investment in the last 2 months alone. Just read up , do some research , and i recommned you learn how to read the various 'charts' (relative strength, MACD etc). I'm amazed at the success (luck??) i have been having, lets see if it lasts.

I'm currently a big fan of Thai equities, and my returns over the last 2 months are also in that ball park. In absolutely no way would I recommend that as a way for OP to generate money to live on though from USD 25k.

So far at that rate it's 3k on 25k in 2 months. Perhaps enough for him and his wife to scrape by. No - it won't last and is not sustainable at that rate. Particularly when a year like 2004 hits and you lose money, or 2008 and he'd be crucified (I lost 40% in Thai equities)

3k (12.7%) per YEAR on 25k would be more realistic longer term rather than the 2 months example - even then some would say optimistic. Over the last 10 years I've an annualised return of about 18% per year in Thai equities.

[WarpSpeed]

You can try out a concept of mine:

Try to find a small, well located block with street access from both sides (front & back) and rent/acquire the ground floor.

This is especially good if there is no convenient passage from one street to the other nearby - then make a passage through your space, this will attract lots of people.

There make 4 separate businesses organised around a central office:

- minimart + meat, groeries

- bar with pool tables, snacks

- restaurant

- internet café with snacks, drinks

Staff can be shared across the businesses, and you should have some nice scale effects (common inventory of beverages, choice of food for bar and restaurant from unsold groceries, common kitchen, shared staff costs, etc.)

In Thailand, the same business rules apply as elsewhere: even if many others are doing the same thing - if you do it better, you will succeed.

Then there is the minor headache of getting the business organized so that your thai partners (your wife included) can't throw you out at any moment and keep your $$$.

You forgot one thing and this is where i thought you were heading.. Also charge to use the short cut across your property to the other side if one does not purchase anything..

[manarak]

You can try out a concept of mine:

Try to find a small, well located block with street access from both sides (front & back) and rent/acquire the ground floor.

This is especially good if there is no convenient passage from one street to the other nearby - then make a passage through your space, this will attract lots of people.

There make 4 separate businesses organised around a central office:

- minimart + meat, groeries

- bar with pool tables, snacks

- restaurant

- internet café with snacks, drinks

Staff can be shared across the businesses, and you should have some nice scale effects (common inventory of beverages, choice of food for bar and restaurant from unsold groceries, common kitchen, shared staff costs, etc.)

In Thailand, the same business rules apply as elsewhere: even if many others are doing the same thing - if you do it better, you will succeed.

Then there is the minor headache of getting the business organized so that your thai partners (your wife included) can't throw you out at any moment and keep your $$$.

and that with a starting capital of $ 25,000?

welll yes... he will need more than 25k of course. but how much more? I didn't research the cost of realizing that concept in Thailand.

The minimart can be started as a franchise (does someone have an idea of how much a 7-11 costs to open? do banks grant credits for this type of biz if the franchisee pays 50% or more?)

The internet café is very cheap to make.

The restaurant and Bar area will need more investment.

[Naam]

welll yes... he will need more than 25k of course. but how much more? I didn't research the cost of realizing that concept in Thailand.

The minimart can be started as a franchise (does someone have an idea of how much a 7-11 costs to open? do banks grant credits for this type of biz if the franchisee pays 50% or more?) The internet café is very cheap to make. The restaurant and Bar area will need more investment.

the OP said he has $25k. according to a thread in Thaivisa a 7/11 franchise costs between 2.5 and 3 million Baht (75 to 90,000 dollars).

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Eleven-Franchise-t173375.html

[deejah]

welll yes... he will need more than 25k of course. but how much more? I didn't research the cost of realizing that concept in Thailand.

The minimart can be started as a franchise (does someone have an idea of how much a 7-11 costs to open? do banks grant credits for this type of biz if the franchisee pays 50% or more?) The internet café is very cheap to make. The restaurant and Bar area will need more investment.

the OP said he has $25k. according to a thread in Thaivisa a 7/11 franchise costs between 2.5 and 3 million Baht (75 to 90,000 dollars).

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Eleven-Franchise-t173375.html

correct me if this is wrong

a thai told me its much less if you work there for a year

(she worked there)

so you do it through a thai

or something like that

i could be totally off

[Powerband]

Don't bother.

You simply won't be able to make any money on a small investment like that.

Remember that anything small scale has been done in Thailand already and it has been done to death.

This is typically the kind of answer from people that can't think of doing anything else except for the food/beverage/hospitality business/retail business.

Manufacture something. You can set up an entire custom milling, lathe,welding, metal cutting ,folding and stamping business for less than 400k baht.

Since not everyone has the capability, you are limited to your specific areas of expertise unless you are willing to learn something new.

My side business apart from my day job, earns an extra 40,000 baht a month, and this is only because I dont have time to commit to it full time. I started with a 6000 baht investment. I'm about to quit my job and push it full time.

Knowledge and niche's are king here. Trust me you can do it.

[WarpSpeed]

Don't bother.

You simply won't be able to make any money on a small investment like that.

Remember that anything small scale has been done in Thailand already and it has been done to death.

This is typically the kind of answer from people that can't think of doing anything else except for the food/beverage/hospitality business/retail business.

Manufacture something. You can set up an entire custom milling, lathe,welding, metal cutting ,folding and stamping business for less than 400k baht.

Since not everyone has the capability, you are limited to your specific areas of expertise unless you are willing to learn something new.

My side business apart from my day job, earns an extra 40,000 baht a month, and this is only because I dont have time to commit to it full time. I started with a 6000 baht investment. I'm about to quit my job and push it full time.

Knowledge and niche's are king here. Trust me you can do it.

Completely agree, so many think because THEY can't do it and are pigeon holed into the usual molds that no one can...

[popeye33]

My wife and her friend have recently started selling curtains and installing them, It cost next to nothing but time and business cards, they are making about 100,000 per month after 6 months and it gets better each month so far. They took a gov sponsored class i'm sure your wife could take... it was free .... sub contractors do all the work they just measure the windows and the subs make them and install them. Mind you it's 100k but they only work on weekends and not even every weekend. It's worked out a LOT better than I expected and seems to be getting better, faster and easier. No overhead at all , no shop, customer pays a deposit that is used to pay for curtains and installing, it's pretty sweet really.

this sounds too good to be true!

and off the chance it is true, it wont last long. I HEAR THAIS ARE GOOD AT COPYCATTING THAT WORKS.............AND EVEN THINGS THAT DONT WORK

[Soutpeel]

Why does it sound too good to be true....

I got curtains in my house a few years ago and the whole house cost THB 50k, so based on that would think MrRichard's missus would only have to do a couple of houses a month to be making 100k

[Naam]

Why does it sound too good to be true....

I got curtains in my house a few years ago and the whole house cost THB 50k, so based on that would think MrRichard's missus would only have to do a couple of houses a month to be making 100k...

...turnover, not profit!