What Methods For Learning To Read/write Thai

[mja1906]

I'm kind of lost as to what is the next step for me in learning to read/write Thai. I have just about mastered the consonants and vowels and can read some basic words. Where should I go from here?

How do Thai children learn how to read at school? As there are so many exceptions to the rule, and you have to memorise which consonant to use for which word (for example 4 different 'S' sounds), is it simply a case of memorisation from here?

I think for English it's a combination of learning to piece the sounds together, and memorising spelling which enables one to read.

Is it the same approach for Thai?

I have bought a few children's books and a learning to read Thai book, which has basic Thai paragraphs from which I read over and over again.

Is this the best approach?

Any advice much appreciated

[sarahsbloke]

I too have been learning to read and write.

The Thai educational system is littered with rote learning and poor educational practices.

This means, for us, nowhere to learn to read and write efficiently.

As many Thai children finish school at age 12 many Thais do not know which 'S' to use, 'T' is just as bad.

If you don't believe me try getting a random sample of Thai people to look up a word in a Thai dictionary!

I don't know how to proceed either.

Conversational Thai with transliteration bores me.

Rote learning to read and write is unbearable.

If only there were a school that would teach conversational Thai with Thai script.

At least I am OK now with sending SMS to the wife in Thai.

Edited March 27, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Richard W]

In theory of course, you should usually know from the pronunciation whether to use one of the three high sors or to use so so at the start of a syllable. (At the end, you hit the notorious final /t/ problem.) On the other hand:

1) There are two clusters (สร ศร) that also represent /s/ as a high consonant.

2) There is one cluster ทร that also represents /s/ as a low consonant. Some will say you should memorise the complete list of such words.

3) With a falling tone, you don't know whether it's a low consonant with mai ek or a high consonant with mai tho. The percentage rule is to assume low consonant with mai ek. Historically, Thais have also followed this rule, and there are quite a few words written with low consonant and mai ek that etymologically should be written with high consonant and mai tho. Egregious examples are ฆ่า 'kill' (spelling based on a false Indic etymology) and เฒ่า 'old'.

Basically a lot of memorisation is required. There are a few rules on allowed and disallowed combinations of consonants and a few hints to distinguish Indic loans, native words and Mon-Khmer loans, but you get relatively little benefit from them.

[DavidHouston]

Sir,

You said, "I too have been learning to read and write. The Thai educational system is littered with rote learning and poor educational practices. This means, for us, nowhere to learn to read and write efficiently."

That statement seems to me to be a dramatic non-sequitur. When you refer to the Thai educational system and your negative attitude toward it, do you mean the system used to teach Thai children how to read and write Thai, give them access to their native literature, and provide a literate tool to other academic subjects such as math and science? If so, how does this affect your learning process? Perhaps you are a high school student; if that were the case, I could understand your difficulty.

On the other hand, if you mean by the "Thai educational system" the extensive system which has emerged all over the country to teach you and other foreigners how to communicate in Thai, then, you have an alternative. Why don't you find an individual to teach you Thai and instruct him or her in the new, enlightened, and efficient methods of teaching you have personally mastered? Think how quickly you could master this language if these unfortunate teachers were to use your methods with you as the subject!

If you were do do this educational instructional reform on a large scale, in a teaching program or at a university, you could have a positive effect on the system.

I too have been learning to read and write.

The Thai educational system is littered with rote learning and poor educational practices.

This means, for us, nowhere to learn to read and write efficiently.

As many Thai children finish school at age 12 many Thais do not know which 'S' to use, 'T' is just as bad.

If you don't believe me try getting a random sample of Thai people to look up a word in a Thai dictionary!

I don't know how to proceed either.

Conversational Thai with transliteration bores me.

Rote learning to read and write is unbearable.

If only there were a school that would teach conversational Thai with Thai script.

At least I am OK now with sending SMS to the wife in Thai.

[SoftWater]

For the OP, might I suggest the very worthy resource David and others have built here

http://www.thailanguagewiki.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

For sarahsbloke, my advice is to start translating for yourself, here's a great resource of texts with audio:

http://siamwestdc.com/thaireader-UH/index.htm

[Parvis]

SoftWater - I find it amazing how much material to learn is actually available on the Internet - which many of us are just not aware of. Therefore thank you for this information. In particular - what I feel is needed - is any reading material which includes sound. Also - if you are aware of any good, professional School (other than University) you can recommend - primarily to improve "Communication" - therefore a conversational course - preferably "intense"(about 3 hours/day - 5/6 days/week). Recommendation highly appreciated.

Tx

PCP

Edited March 28, 2010 by Parvis

[noahvail]

Softwater, thanks for the links! I'm very new to the study of Thai, but I've found a great teacher who says I'm progressing quickly ;-) I'm not so sure :-(

My teacher, whose day job is teaching pahsah Thai to autistic kids at a government school here, says it's very important to read, write, and speak Thai every single day. It seems to help.

I've only just gotten through the ราซากะฦาษี series and moving to the next step this week. Those links will certainly help in the near future (I hope) :-D

[desi]

I find it amazing how much material to learn is actually available on the Internet - which many of us are just not aware of. Therefore thank you for this information. In particular - what I feel is needed - is any reading material which includes sound.

There is a tone of information available for Thai. Ok, maybe not as much as for English, French, or German... but...

For free: Learn Thai for FREE (scroll down for reading materials).

Reading materials with sound (not free):

Learn Thai Podcast (some are partially free)

Others: Thai-English Readers with Mp3s

Course books with Thai script and audio:

Sabai Sabai (sound files are online)

Everyday Thai for Beginners (for advanced beginners)

Introduction to Thai Reading

Thai Language and Culture for Beginners I and II

Progressive Thai (I haven't checked to see how extensive the CD is)

Learning to Read Thai by Sriwilai Ponmanee (I believe it has sound, but you will need a cassette player)

Paiboon Publishing has several in their intermediate and advanced section.

I'm sure I've missed quite a few but perhaps others will fill in.

[sarahsbloke]

Dear DavidHouston

If you were do do this educational instructional reform on a large scale, in a teaching program or at a university, you could have a positive effect on the system.

Please read this post

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Foreign-Teac...56#entry3368956

There is no chance of changing the system.

[Colonel_Mustard]

Submitted in error.

Edited March 30, 2010 by Colonel_Mustard

[Puschl]

Vocabulary trainers with audio are a great tool for practicing reading, comprehension and pronunciation. I'm currently (ab)using http://www.thai-language.com/id/798459 for comprehension / pronunciation drill. The page shows mono-syllabic words in thai script together with an audio-clip button, and prompts for the corresponding tone. Once you give the correct answer, it shows the translation of the word.

You can use it to read the word first, then listen to the audio-clip and compare with your reading. Used in this way it's also a good tool for tone rule drill.

I've put a post-it on my monitor to hide the spelling and listen to the audio-clip only. Then I repeat the word myself, and try to guess the tone and the spelling in thai script.

If you don't yet know tone rules, that probably should be your next step. Learn the three classes of the consonants (low, mid and high consonants, e.g. using http://www.thai-language.com/ref/consonants), the concept of dead and live syllables, and finally the actual tone rules ( e.g. http://www.thai-language.com/ref/tone-rules ).

PS: Thanks to Softwater and desi for the great links. At my level I'm particularly grateful for the siamwestdc.com text+audio resource.

[SoloFlyer]

Hi all - Wow there really are some resources out there these days.

I'm doing the language for visa thing. All already speak good Thai and can read well. But for the life of me I cant write. And the teacher is perplexed - and not very good!!

I'm looking for a good system to learn the consonant classes and the rules.

Recommendations??

[Richard W]

I'm looking for a good system to learn the consonant classes and the rules.

For the consonant classes, look at one of the arrangements of the consonants into rows according to place of articulation (well, for all but the last few). For the rules, here are a few useful mnemonic points:

• A word with a high tone cannot start with a high consonant.
  
• A word with a low tone cannot start with a low consonant.
  
• The sequence of three tones for live with no mark, mai ek, mai tone is a subset of the sequence rising, mid, low, falling, high.
  
• High and mid class give the same tone except for live with no mark
  
• Mid and low class only give the same tone for live with no mark
  
• Dead (with no tone mark) give the same tone as mai ek, except that with a short vowel there isn't have time to fall. (Dead syllables with falling tone are very rare in Thai.)
  

However, the tricky bit is to get the tone without stopping to think. That needs plenty of practice.

[DavidHouston]

Richard,

The sequence of three tones for live with no mark, mai ek, mai tone is a subset of the sequence rising, mid, low, falling, high.

What does this mean?

[sarahsbloke]

I've always thought that the rules for tones are a complete red herring.

Nobody learns the English language from memorizing the rules (like i before e except after a c).

You don't even need to know these rules for reading and writing (and don't try to convince me Thais know these rules).

[Betina]

Chulalongkorn University has a class called Intensive Thai for Foreigners and teaches both written and spoken thai.

It takes a year to complete the full program but it is divided into 3 levels with 3 sections in each. A test will place you on your recent level and you can then sign up for each section (about 5 weeks each)

This is a full time study and very intensive so plan your work according to this.

I too have been learning to read and write.

The Thai educational system is littered with rote learning and poor educational practices.

This means, for us, nowhere to learn to read and write efficiently.

As many Thai children finish school at age 12 many Thais do not know which 'S' to use, 'T' is just as bad.

If you don't believe me try getting a random sample of Thai people to look up a word in a Thai dictionary!

I don't know how to proceed either.

Conversational Thai with transliteration bores me.

Rote learning to read and write is unbearable.

If only there were a school that would teach conversational Thai with Thai script.

At least I am OK now with sending SMS to the wife in Thai.

[HappyInCM]

I've always thought that the rules for tones are a complete red herring.

Nobody learns the English language from memorizing the rules (like i before e except after a c).

You don't even need to know these rules for reading and writing (and don't try to convince me Thais know these rules).

There are probably lots of things we explicitely memorized about English but just seem automagic now and if asked, we cannot re-produce the rules. Here is the elementary school grade 2 book for Thai's explanation of the middle consonants tone rules.

so, yes, they do explicitely learn the rules. EDIT: meant the high class consonants.

Edited April 2, 2010 by eljefe2

[aussiebebe]

The OP wrote;

'm kind of lost as to what is the next step for me in learning to read/write Thai. I have just about mastered the consonants and vowels and can read some basic words. Where should I go from here?

Well, I studied at a Language school in Asoke called UTL - Unity Thai Language, and the third module taught written Thai. It's very systematic and similar to the popular orange-covered 'Thai for Beginners' book. Once you memorize the consonants, you need to memorize the class they belong to; high, middle and low - have you done this yet?

When you have, the next step is to learn the tone rules that apply with the long vowels and the tone marks. Syllables ending with a long vowel or a sonorant, or occurring with a special vowel symbol have the following rules:

No tone mark - may eek - may thoo

High Class - Rising - Low - Falling

Mid Class - Mid - Low - Falling

Low Class - Mid - Falling - High

Once you practise this, you'll be able to work out why there's two sets of symbols for the same sounds and which one to use; one reason is to provide a way whereby the same sounds can occur on all the tones. Thai's seemingly know this by speaking Thai correctly from childhood, but may not be aware of what they know, or how to teach this, which is why teachers are invaluable.

[Richard W]

The sequence of three tones for live with no mark, mai ek, mai tone is a subset of the sequence rising, mid, low, falling, high.

It would have been better if I'd said subsequence rather than subset, but here's an expansion of the mnemonic. (Eliminating some possibilities depend on other mnemonics.)

Abbreviating the tones to R, M, L, F & H, and the tone marks to 0 (no mark), 1 (mai ek) and 2 (mai tho), then the sequences are:

High class: 0 => R M 1 => L 2 => F H

Mid class: R 0 => M 1 => L, 2 => F H

Low class: R 0 => M L 1 => F 2 => H

I think mai tri and mai chattawa are best thought of as what they are, a way of repairing the deficiency in tone coverage of the mid class. (Counting digraphs, the consonant sounds represented by high consonants are also represented by low consonants and vice versa.)