Civil War

[eggomaniac]

Based on a few facts, I do not see how the present situation can be described as anything but civil war.

1. There are military forces retreating in the largest city in the country in the face of Red forces.

2. The Red forces already 'hold' Northern provinces. I determine this by the several comments of Yellow supporters who, rightly, complain of unrestricted violence against Yellow supporters, by the Reds in the North. They 'have the day' up there.

3. The absolute Myth Busted that the Red Movement is 'only a Northern peasant' preoccupation, with bombings in Surat Thani and public support in Bangkok.

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This Poll is not about who is right or wrong, just an attempt at an accurate historical description.

It will be an absolute disaster for Thailand if Thaksin's forces or Sondhi's forces wins the day. They both have their good arguments, but are colliding only on their, resepective, bad elements.

Does anybody here believe in karma, more divine comedy? It's humorous that the amount of money taken from Thaksin by Thailand is nearly the same amount that was given to Sondhi from Thailand. Perhaps Vishnu is supplying a 'Hint' here.

Barring Divine Intervention, or the Implemenation of The Joseph Solution, Thailand will suffer the same turmoil for decades to come that they have 'enjoyed' for the past 8 decades.

[elkangorito]

What sort of poll is this? I don't see people killing each other on the streets every 5 minutes!

There is clearly no 'civil war'.

The opposite choice (Thailand is NOT in a state of civil war) indicates that the alternative is civil war. I don't think things are this black & white here.

I think your poll is silly & as a result, I didn't vote.

[flying]

What you have there is civil unrest / civil disorder / civil protest........... But not as yet civil war

[Jingthing]

I think there is a strong civil war mentality present. However, I don't see it as red vs. yellow, rather I see it as Thaksin followers vs. everyone else.

[smokie36]

What you have there is civil unrest / civil disorder / civil protest........... But not as yet civil war

I would call it a largely peaceful and democratic rally against the government based on their policies and moral mandate to govern.

[elkangorito]

JT, it's not even a "strong" thing. People here really don't give a toss (80 000 protest in BKK).

If the poll had more sensible choices, it may be of some use as an indicater amongst foreigners. As it currently stands, it has little point other than to polarise foreigners for 'at war' or 'not at war'. Clearly, there is no war & I hope there isn't one.

[britmaveric]

I would call it a largely peaceful and democratic rally against the government based on their policies and moral mandate to govern.

Nothing more or less to the disappointed members such as Jingthing!

[Jingthing]

JT, it's not even a "strong" thing. People here really don't give a toss (80 000 protest in BKK).

If the poll had more sensible choices, it may be of some use as an indicater amongst foreigners. As it currently stands, it has little point other than to polarise foreigners for 'at war' or 'not at war'. Clearly, there is no war & I hope there isn't one.

You're wrong. Abhisit can't travel to Isaan or even Chiang Mai without serious death threats. The rhetoric from the reds typically includes the desire to murder yellows. It is strong. Thaksin is holding this entire country hostage. Something has got to give.

[flying]

What you have there is civil unrest / civil disorder / civil protest........... But not as yet civil war

I would call it a largely peaceful and democratic rally against the government based on their policies and moral mandate to govern.

True

[Jingthing]

That's rich. Moral authority, eh? The red side's leader is a convicted corrupt criminal too cowardly to face his country's justice, very moral that.

[elkangorito]

I would call it a largely peaceful and democratic rally against the government based on their policies and moral mandate to govern.

Nothing more or less to the disappointed members such as Jingthing!

Brit, I know that you & I do not see 'eye to eye' on many things but on this occasion, I agree & I had a laugh

JT, it's not even a "strong" thing. People here really don't give a toss (80 000 protest in BKK).

If the poll had more sensible choices, it may be of some use as an indicater amongst foreigners. As it currently stands, it has little point other than to polarise foreigners for 'at war' or 'not at war'. Clearly, there is no war & I hope there isn't one.

You're wrong. Abhisit can't travel to Isaan or even Chiang Mai without serious death threats. The rhetoric from the reds typically includes the desire to murder yellows. It is strong. Thaksin is holding this entire country hostage. Something has got to give.

JT, you are talking about one (1) unique person...the PM. I would imagine that the President of the USA would also receive daily death threats. I would also imagine that certain factions proclaim 'death' to the opposition (this is a global phenomenon). I therefore declare that neither of these things is a precursor to 'civil war' until such times as 'the majority of people' show their true colours.

[Jingthing]

Nope, wars are started by violent activists. Most people are victims. I do see a mentality developing in Thailand where people are being pressured to take a side, either pro red/Thaksin or anti red/Thaksin. Again, I don't feel this has much to do with yellow at all.

Also, no I am NOT talking about only the PM. People actively working against Thaksin in the heavily red regions definitely would face violence. So they shut up for FEAR for their lives. If that isn't a civil war mentality, I don't know what is.

[elkangorito]

I agree with you but I don't think things are anywhere near close to civil war...as this inane poll suggests or does not suggest.

[smokie36]

I don't believe we're allowed to discuss when the civil war will begin.

[lannarebirth]

I don't believe we're allowed to discuss when the civil war will begin.

This IS the fight you're expecting later.

[monkfish]

In the worst case Abhisit will call an election, or may be a coup will happen but NO civil war.

[elkangorito]

Eggomoroniac, I think you have some definitive results regarding your inane poll. It appears that Thailand is not in a state of civil war...or didn't you know this?

[smokie36]

Eggomoroniac, I think you have some definitive results regarding your inane poll. It appears that Thailand is not in a state of civil war...or didn't you know this?

You might have to shout louder mate I think he's hiding in his bunker.

[elkangorito]

Bunker? Didn't Adolf do that?

Talk about loss of face!!! If he & I were Thai, he would have a 'hit' out on me by now.

[flying]

Nope, wars are started by violent activists.

And Noble Peace Prize Winners?

[elkangorito]

Was George W an activist?

[smokie36]

Was George W an activist?

You mean an a*se and pr*ck.

[elkangorito]

Good ol' George was 'versatile'...he was both an arse & a plick....which reminds me of a joke.

A Greek restaurant owner had his business next to a Chinese restaurant. Every day, the Greek would walk past the Chinese restaurant & say to the Chinaman, "Good morning flied lice."

The Chinaman was quite insulted about this so he underwent a course in English for many months.

After a year or thereabouts, the Greek walked past the Chinese restaurant & said the usual, "Good morning flied lice."

The Chinaman immediately responded with, "It's 'fried rice'...you Gleek plick."

[britmaveric]

^must be referring to the current yank President BO.

[Tejas]

^must be referring to the current yank President BO.

A bit back I tried to put forth the idea that what is happening now in Thailand is similar to what happened in my country in the 1860s (Civil War).

People thought I was crazy.

I said it was a rural vs urban conflict (same as our Civil War........rural south vs urban north).

I said it was about ruling elites fighting urban elites over the future economic direction of the country and who gets the largest piece of the economic pie (same as our Civil War).

I said it had little to do with democracy and all the other slogans and that it was actually an economic battle (some still think our Civil War was about slavery when it wasn't)

The main difference is that we are not seeing these two camps take up arms on a large scale and fighting outright. Now it is a lot of talk and a few grenades here and there.

The other difference is that Thailand has a strong military that can, if it wants to do so, stop all of this within a few days.

What bothers me most is the economic damage both sides are doing to the country.

Hopefully they will resolve their issues via a peaceful democratic process.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

What a skewed understanding of what a war is, civil or otherwise.

We're seeing an increased awareness in democracy and governance, and some people/activitsts speaking out on those issues, proposing change. That's just a healthy thing in a democracy. (And in Thailand as well.)

A more challenging poll would be if anyone thinks that a civil war is possible in the future. I think under the current circumstances no, but as Thailand as a whole has failed to build a solid democracy that can weather the most challenging storms, I'm not sure about the future. Note that this may not be a war or struggle with the same Red & Yellow teams that we see today. When times are a-changing, all bets are off.

[eggomaniac]

What you have there is civil unrest / civil disorder / civil protest........... But not as yet civil war

your response is at least 'civil' as compared to the low brow rudeness of others.

Try to think of it this way, if you will?

Let's say the reds are succesful in achieving their goals. Would history then declare they won 'civil unrest' of 2010?

Is Thailand enjoying peaceful times? There are Travel Warnings, not advisories, against travelling to Thailand.

What about the contention that the Reds aleady control Northern Provinces? This comes from several 'complaints' of yellows who detail instances of the reds openly and violently carrying on with no repurcussions.

Another thing, have the reds declared war? Methinks so. They have appointed a general of the Red Army!

Now what are the Reds' intentions has a lot to do with the real situation. There is news headline, right here in Thai Visa, where they named WHO are the opposing forces.

It WAS published here, it is still there to view, however I might get in trouble for pointing it out. Look it up!

The battle lines are drawn. 80 years have been 'stormy', but the Thais have become enured. The perfect storm is brewing.

Wherein lies most of the problem, also rest the cure: unfortunately discussion of neither is allowed.

[otherstuff1957]

While the current situation is tense, we are still a long way from a civil war. Hopefully, cool heads will continue to prevail and the two (or three or four) sides will be able to come to some sort of workable compromise.

Of course, if Thaksin's pockets are deep enough, the protest could just continue for another 18 months until the next elections!

[somtampet]

NO

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

my impression is if you didn't pay the protesters to show up there would be relatively few there.

The Attitude seems to be "I'll love u and support u as long as the $$ hold out. Or until someone comes along willing to pay more for my time".