Bangkok Red-Shirt Rally - Live Updates - Sunday

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THE NATION: Veera told PM that red shirts can guarantee peace if agreement is reached.

"I can't see how this ends without an election," Veera told PM.

THE NATION: Not the same veera we see on red stage.

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THE NATION: PM talking now

THE NATION: Abhisit said he was against coup, but "it may be right to blame everything on that coup."

Bangkokpundit: Abhisit: I opposed the coup regardless of reasons for it. It has created problems, but problems started before that (implies under Thaksin)

THE NATION: PM also looks relaxed and friendly.

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TAN Network: Veera blames 2008 coup for current political problems, promises red-shirts will end movement when House is disbanded.PM disagrees

THE NATION: "Thailand's problems are not just coup. Problems date back beyond that," PM said.

TAN Network: PM says 1997 charter is also problematic, all political parties said the 1997 charter must be amended.

TAN Network: PM: 2007 Charter also has weak points, but it's endorsed by national referendum.Must ahere to procedures and must be transparent

[george]

Thai government, protesters hold landmark talks

by Thanaporn Promyamyai

BANGKOK: (AFP) -- Thailand's embattled Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Sunday began landmark talks with anti-government protesters, aimed at ending two weeks of street demonstrations.

The red-shirted demonstrators, who are calling for fresh elections, intensified pressure on Abhisit on the weekend, threatening to march in their tens of thousands on the military barracks where he has been been holed up.

Abhisit addressed the nation early Sunday to rule out being pressured into talks with the "Red Shirts" who support former leader Thaksin Shinawatra, but shortly after made an about-face and agreed to the meeting.

"The government's position is that we want to decrease conflict. We made a proposal and the protesters accepted -- it is a good sign, it is a good way out," said Satit Wongnongtoey, minister in the premier's office.

Satit sidestepped suggestions that the talks could not succeed because the protesters have only one demand -- the departure of an administration they criticise as elitist and undemocratic.

"We have never talked before. This is the first time, we cannot say how long the negotiations will last or what the outcome will be," he said.

Abhisit arrived at the venue, a Bangkok educational institute, along with two of his senior staff, and shook hands with his red-clad opponents as they sat down at the meeting table.

"This is not likely to take long because the atmosphere is good. Everyone is acting in good faith for the benefit of the country," said one of the three Reds representatives, Weng Tojirakarn.

However, another protest leader Nattawut Saikua said the movement was intent on removing Abhisit's administration which came to power in a 2008 vote, after Thaksin's allies were removed in a court ruling.

"We have one goal, the dissolution of the house," he said. "If the outcome is what we want, it means we have been successful in our demands. If not, we will have to discuss what to do next."

Thailand political analyst and Thaksin biographer Chris Baker said the talks would likely focus on the timing of polls which must be held by the end of 2011.

"I don't think these talks will be over so quickly. I think there will be the usual drama and theatre of these things. I wouldn't be surprised if we came out in the end with an election in November," he said.

The Reds are riding high after a rally Saturday that drew 80,000 people and forced troops to retreat from several security posts in the heart of the capital where they have been stationed since the demonstrations began.

The military has mounted a strong security operation involving 50,000 personnel for the demonstrations, which began on March 14 after a court ruling that seized 1.4 billion dollars of Thaksin's fortune.

The security measures, including a lockdown of parliament, which was surrounded by barricades and razor wire for a session this week, have been criticised as excessive.

Street demonstrations have passed off peacefully but the capital has been hit by an increasingly bloody series of explosions at government and army buildings.

A dozen people were injured over the weekend, including four soldiers wounded Sunday when grenades were lobbed at the gate of the barracks where Abhisit has been forced to live and work since the protests began.

Saturday saw three blasts, targeting two television stations run by the army and the government, and another on the customs department.

Thaksin, who was removed in a 2006 coup and lives in exile to avoid a jail sentence for corruption, addresses his supporters regularly by videolink and last week urged them to increase pressure on the government.

He also raised the prospect of a campaign of civil disobedience if Abhisit continues to reject demands to dissolve parliament.

-- ©Copyright AFP 2010-03-28

Published with written approval from AFP.

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[george]

Veera says new election will be referendum on charter amendments

Veera Musigapong, the chief red-shirt negotiator, told the prime minister that if House is dissolved and a new election is held, it would be a referendum as to whether the charter should be amended.

Veera was responding to the prime minister's question how House dissolution would end the political problems.

Veera said election candidates could tell voters whether they support charter amendments or not so the election would be like a referendum.

He said the red-shirt people would respect the people's opinions expressed through the election.

Veera says new election will be referendum on charter amendments

Veera Musigapong, the chief red-shirt negotiator, told the prime minister that if House is dissolved and a new election is held, it would be a referendum as to whether the charter should be amended.

Veera was responding to the prime minister's question how House dissolution would end the political problems.

Veera said election candidates could tell voters whether they support charter amendments or not so the election would be like a referendum.

He said the red-shirt people would respect the people's opinions expressed through the election.

Veera replies to PM: Coup caused all current problems

Veera Musigapong, the chief negotiator of the red-shirt side, told Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva that the September 19 2006 coup was the main cause of all current political problems.

He said the coup led to the drafting of the unfair constitution.

Veera said all people and the prime minister were victims of the coup, that gave birth to the unfair charter.

Abhisit says he doubts whether House dissolution can end problems

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva told the three red-shirt negotiators that he doubted whether House dissolution could really solve all the political problems.

He said he saw that the causes of the political problems dated back long before the Democrat Party became the government.

He said the red-shirt negotiators needed to reach an agreement with him first as to whether would really solve the problems.

Abhisit added that he came to the negotiation table as the prime minister not the Democrat leader so he needed to listen to other coalition partners' opinions.

PM asks red shirts whether they accept the current election rules

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva asked the red-shirt negotiators whether they would accept the current election rules.

Abhisit asked the red-shirt negotiators whether they would accept it if their party wins the election but is later disqualified because of the current rules.

Abhisit also noted that there is another group in the political conflicts, apparently referring to the People's Alliance for Democracy. Abhisit asked whether such group should also be included in the negotiation.

PM insists problems date back before 2006 coup

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva insisted that the current political problems dated back to before the September 2006 coup.

Responding to the argument of Veera Musigapong, Abhisit said the 1997 Constitution was also problematic.

Abhisit said the current charter also had good points and it had been endorsed in a referendum.

Abhisit said he disagreed with the notation that new election would also be a referendum on charter amendments.

-- The Nation 2010-03-28

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Bangkokpundit: Abhisit: Problems started in 05. We had interference with independent orgs. Were probs with 97 constiution & all parties agreed with amendin

Abhisit: 07 constitution has good points. Many ppl agree with amending it, but not everyone agrees what to amend

THE NATION: Abhisit called Veera "Phi Veera" (Big brother)

THE NATION: "this government won't last forever. Even if nothing happens, next year we will still have election," Abhisit said.

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TAN Network: PM: I don't agree a general election is the equivalent of a national referendum on 2007 charter amendment.

THE NATION: Abhisit said he didn't agree that election would serve concurrently as referendum on charter amendment.

THE NATION: Abhisit now referred to the audio clip played on Red stage, saying what would happen if that doctored tape was played in election campaign.

He was referring to the tape in which he was plotting a violent crackdown on protesters.

THE NATION: Veera's talking again. "I don't want u to accept rules laid down by coupmakers for us politicians," Veera said.

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THE NATION: "How can we make the Sept 19 coup our very last one?" Veera asked.

THE NATION: "No matter what happens. No matter what corruption scandals we face, can we let our own system handle it? No matter how long it takes?

THE NATION: Veera 's extremely polite, i have to say it., which begs the question why these guys refused to talk earlier.

THE NATION: Post-coup laws affected everyth, leading to problems, Veera said.

Bangkokpundit: What Veera was saying that wants PM to accept that coup and constitution are a problem. Says this will help in coming together

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PM asks red shirts whether they accept the current election rules

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva asked the red-shirt negotiators whether they would accept the current election rules.

Abhisit asked the red-shirt negotiators whether they would accept it if their party wins the election but is later disqualified because of the current rules.

Abhisit also noted that there is another group in the political conflicts, apparently referring to the People's Alliance for Democracy. Abhisit asked whether such group should also be included in the negotiation.

-- The Nation 2010-03-28

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[george]

Academics call for parliament dissolution

BANGKOK: -- Academic called on Sunday the government and red shirted group should seek a compromise the end the political stalemate by dissolving the parliament for a new election within three months.

The petition was made as the government and the protesters were about to sit in to have a political talk after a confrontation over the past two weeks.

The academic who signed a petition included prominent historians Charnvit Kasetsiri, Nidhi Eoseewong,

Sociologist Anan Ganjanapan and political scientist Kasian Tejapira.

The government should not treat the dissolution as a defeat. It is indeed the best available way to defuse the escalating violence. Most importantly, to dissolve parliament is to hand power back to the people in a time of political deadlock, they said in a statement.

"The protesters should refrain from demanding the immediate dissolution of Parliament and give the government a grace period of time to arrange the framework for elections and to implement urgent policies," they said.

-- The Nation 2010-03-28

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THE NATION: Soft as he is, Veera makes good points on why politicians shouldn't accept a charter born out of a coup.

THE NATION: Abhisit: "What about those who will say that this charter has gone through a referendum?"

TAN Network: PM:For charter to be amended both Lower and Upper House muts be involved, Lower House dissolution not a solution.

Bangkokpundit: Abhisit: Not every problem started from the coup. Both Samak & Somchai faced problems too.

THE NATION: abhisit reminded red leaders that he tried to coordinate efforts to amend the charter, including on "points that I didn't want to amend."

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Veera says military interference infuriated red-shirt people

Veera Musigapong told the prime minister that the military interference caused the red-shirt people feel it is unacceptable.

Veera noted that the Democrat-led coalition was set up because of the military interference.

He said several organisations were also set up under the influence of the 2006 coup makers so the red-shirt people would like a new election to be held after which the political rules could be changed.

Veera said the military inference in politics after the coup prompted the red-shirt people to take to streets.

PM insists House dissolution not same thing with charter amendments

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva insisted that House dissolution is a different matter from the efforts to amend the Constitution.

Abhisit said he is confident that many people share the same opinion with him.

Abhisit noted that the government used to push for charter amendments but the Pheu Thai Party itself boycotted the proposed amendments after former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra said "no" to the amendments.

Abhisit noted that the amendments could also cause problems if other people regard that politicians would amend the charter to grant amnesty for themselves or amend the charter for their own benefits.

-- The Nation 2010-03-28

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THE NATION: PM: "I'm not sure how many people will cast election ballots thinking about how charter should b changed."

Bangkokdan: Regarding facts & style Abhisit's the debate's clear winner so far, he simply outwits them, they're lost for arguments, but does it matter?

TAN Network: PM:General elections isn't the equivalent of nat'l referendum for charter amendment.Political parties compete on policy platforms

Bangkokpundit: Abhisit: Parl. committee had agree on amending the constitution, but Puea Thai disagreed with this. There are many details

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THE NATION: Jatuporn is speaking. Again, it could have been his twin brother. Polite. and Friendly.

Jatuporn: "It's yr right whether to dissolve House or not. It's our duty to fight on."

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Red-shirt Leader Veera Invites PM to Agree Rules Set by Coup Makers Unacceptable

Red-shirt leader Veera Musikkapong concluded by saying that he'd like to invite PM Abhisit Vejjajiva to reject the rules and organizations set up by coup makers in 2008. PM Abhisit responded by saying that for the charter to be amended both Lower and Upper House needed to be involved and that a House dissolution will not make that possible.

-- Tan Network 2010-03-28

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Bangkokpundit: Jatuporn: Dem party meeting set goal of 280 MPs yesterday (out of 480) then u can dissolve parliament [and u will win]

THE NATION: Jatuporn: "You are just a year older than me but yr aging much faster now."

Bangkokpundit: Jatuporn: If Peau Thai lose the election & choose Dems then we have lost. It will mean ppl want u & reject PT solutions

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THE NATION: Jatuporn: "It's all right if you don't dissolve. When we finish our coffee we will just go back to the rally."

MCOT: Unidentified gunman fires at Bangkok Bank, Saphankhao branch; no casualties reported

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PM insists House dissolution not same thing with charter amendments

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva insisted that House dissolution is a different matter from the efforts to amend the Constitution.

Abhisit said he is confident that many people share the same opinion with him.

Abhisit noted that the government used to push for charter amendments but the Pheu Thai Party itself boycotted the proposed amendments after former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra said "no" to the amendments.

Abhisit noted that the amendments could also cause problems if other people regard that politicians would amend the charter to grant amnesty for themselves or amend the charter for their own benefits.

-- The Nation 2010-03-28

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Jatuporn submits ultimatum for PM to dissolve House

Jatuporn Promphan, another red-shirt negotiator, told Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva that the problems will continue if he declines to dissolve the House.

Jatuporn said if Abhisit refused to dissolve the House, the three red-shirt leaders would return to lead the protesters at the Phan Fah Bridge while the prime minister would have to return to be under the military protection inside the 11th Infantry Regiment.

-- The Nation 2010-03-28

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TAN network: Chamni Sakdiset doesn't believe general election/House dissol'n is an answer.It's not just abt redVSgovt

Bangkokpundit: Chamni: I don't see we get an answer on amending the constitution from the election.

THE NATION: "Sept 19 coup destroyed our national structure and created a new one," Weng said.

Bangkokpundit: Dr. Weng: I never agreed with Thaksin on all, but it was an elected govt. We got a coup & independent agencies appointed by coup leaders.

THE NATION: Weng criticizing Army chief Anupong now, for failing to support Samak Govt when it faced yellow-shirt protest.

THE NATION: weng said while Anupong failed to act during Airport seizure, the Army sent troops to station in temples around red rally site.

[george]

Chamni says House dissolution is not solution

Chamni Sakdiseth, who accompanied the prime minister to the negotiation table, said House dissolution would not be the solution to the on-going political crisis.

Chamni was responding to the ultimatum submitted by Jatuporn Promphan for the prime minister to dissolve the House of Representatives to end the current political problems.

-- The Nation 2010-03-28

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THE NATION: Weng has made more stinging comments than the other two.

Bangkokpundit: Dr. Weng: The military helped you to become PM. We see you have become part of the aristocrat system. An election gives power back to ppl

THE NATION: Election will erase Abhisit's image as a PM babysat by "ammat", Weng said.

Bangkokpundit: Dr. Weng: Military budget increased dramatically after the coup [bP: from 80 bil to 140 bil]. Military gained too much power

Bangkokpundit: Dr. Weng: The referendum for 07 constitution was held when half country was under martial law & govt spent billions to support "yes" vote

[george]

Weng says PM must prove his love for democracy by dissolving House

Weng Tojitrakarn, another red-shirt negotiator, told Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva that he must prove his love for genuine democracy by dissolving the House and returning the mandate to the people.

Weng said Abhisit must dissolve the House to prove that the prime minister is not one of the aristocrats.

Weng said the ruling mandate should belong to the people so the prime minister must return the mandate to the people by holding a new election.

If possible, the House should bedissolved Monday, Weng said.

-- The Nation 2010-03-28

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Bangkokdan: Dr. Weng turns the dialog into a monologue

Bangkokpundit: Dr. Weng: The 07 constitution punishes a party & all executives for the wrongs of one. This is not fair.

THE NATION: Weng slamming parties' dissolution now, a big flaw in the Constitution, he said.

THE NATION: Make no mistake. He's made some good points. But even Veera has handed him a note saying something like stop beating around the bush.

THE NATION: "It can be a verylong talk if we want to really discuss democratic spirit," Abhisit said.

THE NATION: Weng's finished. Abhisit responding.

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THE NATION: PM: "Soldiers stationed around rally site were unarmed and were there to maintain peace and order"

THE NATION: PM: "Unlike some other times, when protesters had grenades fired at."

THE NATION: Abhisit's hitting back with "violation of rights" that take place during protests.

Bangkokdan: Both sides seem to get tired of each other, body language of slight nuisance

THE NATION: "If you want to base on British principles, there are many things our protesters do that the Brits don't," Abhisit said.

THE NATION: Abhisit is countering well

Bangkokpundit: Abhisit: There is legislation on limits on public protests in England & in the UK couldn't do what the reds did

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THE NATION: The doctored audio clip used during red rally has been Abhisit's big ammunition during this talk.

THE NATION: "Can there be a middle way?" Abhisit is asking.

TAN Network: PM: No democratic country in the world would agree to 'change' under threat by anti-govt protesters.

THE NATION: "I accept some of you reasons which I think are all right. But can we go out of this room and find the right answers?"

Bangkokpundit: Abhisit: Faces Dr. Weng and states in yr years of fighting for democracy, has another PM ever sat down and talked with u?

THE NATION: Every one of the six negotiators look very tired.

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THE NATION: "We need to find answers not just for six people sitting here, but 63 million people," PM said.

THE NATION: Jatuporn: "I still can't see how you staying on will solve the conflict."

THE NATION: Jatuporn: "Since you aren't dissolving, then we keep on fighting. But I can assure that we won't seize govt places."

THE NATION: "I don't know if the bombs are govt works but you blame it on us," Jatuporn said.

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THE NATION: "Are u dissolving House or not?" Jatuporn asked.

THE NATION: PM: "I've never said I would stay until the end of govt term."

THE NATION: PM: "100,000 coming without reasons need to be explained to. One man coming with reasons need to be listened to."

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PM says he expects more rounds of talk

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva told the red-shirt negotiators that he expected more rounds of talk between him and the red-shirt leaders.

Abhisit said he expected that the red-shirt negotiators would not submit an ultimatum for him to comply in just the first round of talk.

The prime minister said the future talks should be based on the common agreement the negotiators could reach during the first round.

Abhisit also noted that he, as the prime minister, would also have to listen to opinions of other people, who were not in the negotiation room.

The prime minister said representatives of other groups might be invited to take part in future rounds of talks.

-- The Nation 2010-03-28

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THE NATION: PM: "Let's have clearcut talk on Constitution (before House can b dissolved), which shouldn't take long."

THE NATION: PM: "My hope is we can lay real groundworks toward reconciliation."

THE NATION: "I've never blamed anyone for the bombs," PM said.

THE NATION: "You have the right to continue the rally, under terms laid down by the Administrative Court," PM said.

THE NATION: "Talks can resume tomorrow. I'll only go to Brunei for a day trip," PM said.

THE NATION: Oh no. Weng wants to give another lecture.

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THE NATION: Abhisit cut Weng short, but fingers crossed.

THE NATION: "Let's have timeframe" PM said. "We have to listen to everyone, and this is what we have to be very careful about." PM said.

THE NATION: "There are people whose voices we have never heard. And there are those who will make their voices heard just the same as the reds," PM.

THE NATION: Jatuporn: "I think we have come to an impasse today." I think he meant "nowadays."