Thai Govt Coalition Partners, PAD React To Peace Talks

[jdinasia]

They all make very good points. If the reds really want to see and and to the stalemate then they must be willing to compromise. Ultimatums will get them nowhere.

all the PAD wanted to do is get ride of Taksin. i never herd them say how they would make the country better. i find it funny that the PAD don't run for power. they got Taksin out then left the country in a mess and left it for another person to try and sorte it out. i have respect for this priminister for taking this job on. i think he has an impossible mission to succeed.

I always asked the question what are the PAD going to do to make things better. answer..nothing ! country is a mess thanks PAD!

Sure, don't blame Thaksin for the corruption, the stealing, the rest ... blame the people that stood up to him!

thats fine. i have no problem. moan complain and kick him out but they did not seem to care about what happens next. if u don't like some or something. by all means complain but u have to ccome up with something better. Other wise whats the point!

The point was not to do anything other than remove Thaksin through non-violence. The assumption being that democracy would continue to work when the next group got busy. It has. Not fast and not easy ... but it is working.

[Old Man River]

I commend the government for allowing this circus to continue. I wouldn't think many other countries would allow this to go on for so long?

How many governments do you know who violently crack down on a peaceful protest? Oh wait: China, Burma, North Korea, Zimbabwe.. right, quite as lot actually, but none that Thailand would aspire to imitate. The Ukrainian Orange Revolution, while probably not really a revolution, took quite a while too.

How many peaceful protests hijack gasoline trucks and threaten to blow them up in urban neighborhoods (or anywhere for that matter)? How many peaceful protests hijack city buses and set them on fire? How many storm international summits?

[anotherpeter]

They all make very good points. If the reds really want to see and and to the stalemate then they must be willing to compromise. Ultimatums will get them nowhere.

all the PAD wanted to do is get ride of Taksin. i never herd them say how they would make the country better. i find it funny that the PAD don't run for power. they got Taksin out then left the country in a mess and left it for another person to try and sorte it out. i have respect for this priminister for taking this job on. i think he has an impossible mission to succeed.

I always asked the question what are the PAD going to do to make things better. answer..nothing ! country is a mess thanks PAD!

Umm... haven't they started a political party? "New Politics" or something.

[jdinasia]

They all make very good points. If the reds really want to see and and to the stalemate then they must be willing to compromise. Ultimatums will get them nowhere.

all the PAD wanted to do is get ride of Taksin. i never herd them say how they would make the country better. i find it funny that the PAD don't run for power. they got Taksin out then left the country in a mess and left it for another person to try and sorte it out. i have respect for this priminister for taking this job on. i think he has an impossible mission to succeed.

I always asked the question what are the PAD going to do to make things better. answer..nothing ! country is a mess thanks PAD!

Umm... haven't they started a political party? "New Politics" or something.

NPP New Politics Party ---- there have not been elections since that party was formed.

[TheOldWolf]

It always comes back to the yellows did this and that! How can that be used in defense what the reds did under Songkran? Both the reds and yellows are two unparlamentari forces. I can see no big difference, apart from different goals. Both has there right to speak, like any other group in the country within in the law. If one group one time went outside the law, it is no excuse for the other group to do the same.

the legal process are ongoing with both yellow and red leaders.

[webfact]

YELLOW SHIRTS

Dissolution call is a ploy to help Thaksin : PAD

By THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- The yellow-shirt People's Alliance For Democracy (PAD) yesterday opposed political talks about a parliamentary dissolution. It said the solution proposed by the red-shirt protesters had a hidden agenda to help fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

PAD coordinator and secretary general of the New Politics Party Suriyasai Katasila, said the red shirts were not qualified to negotiate with the government as they were not representatives of a majority, but just Thaksin's proxy.

"The government's recognition of the red-shirt group is equivalent to recognition of a Thaksin regime - which we regarded as the root cause of the current political crisis," he said.

The PAD called a meeting of its key members yesterday to take a stance in opposing the red-shirt proposal to end the on-going political stalemate.

Dissolution is a normal practice in the parliamentary system, but the red-shirt proposal aimed only to help Thaksin get amnesty for his guilt, the PAD said in a statement.

The red-shirt group, who are political rivals of the yellow-shirt PAD, should not use street protests, violence and innocent people as bargaining chips to achieve their goals, the statement said.

The PAD strongly opposed any move to rewrite the military-sponsored Constitution since it was not the root cause of the crisis, it said.

"We don't oppose changes to the Constitution as long as that is done for public benefit, rather than the personal benefit of politicians," the PAD said.

Political reform was the only real solution that could get the country out of the political crisis, it said.

Instead of negotiating, the PAD called on the government to enforce the laws to punish wrongdoers and end the illegal protest as well as bring peace to the country, it said.

The PAD called for its supporters to exercise utmost restraint and not to confront the red shirts.

The PAD would soon call a meeting of its network to seek a solution to lead the country out of crisis, the statement said.

-- The Nation 2010-03-30

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[anotherpeter]

Instead of negotiating, the PAD called on the government to enforce the laws to punish wrongdoers and end the illegal protest as well as bring peace to the country, it said.

Yes, throw the PAD in jail for blocking access to the airport for a week.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

And they (PAD) are dead right with that. When they themselves were in the streets they DID have a majority of the country behind them - after all, even The Airport Blockade would not have happened if the Aiport Authority hadn't sympathized with them and literally handed over the keys (there was no violence whatsoever and a seizure was not planned, initially it only was to be a protest, but we know what came next). Add to that the State Railway and a few more large or nationwide companies that added support.

The reds have any of that? Nope. Why? Because Thaksin doesn't have enough money to pay for THAT kind of support, that's why.

While the mass of red-shirted people have their own issues and are thinking their protest would lead to a better life for them, as a matter of fact the red leaders are nothing more but paid-by-Thaksin puppets, saying exactly what Thaksin tells them to say, doing exactly what Thaksin tells them to do. And the whole "red wave" has one and one only purpose: Re-install Thaksin at the top spot.

Anyone care guessing what happens at the proposed election? Of course the PTP will win. Because they pay cash for votes, they threaten people (via village PA systems - "vote for PTP or else..!" every full hour 24/7) and they certainly will not allow any Democrat or other-than-PTP-party representative to campaign in their areas - fermented fish, rotten eggs etc will be thrown, if not bullets and grenades.

So we WILL have a government like the two right before Abhisit - no idea what to do with the country but never mind the country, their only Agenda is to return Thaksin's money, then remove his jail sentence, bring him back to Thailand and let him be PM again.

I see another coup happening here..... or, prior to any of that, the streets filled with yellow-shirted people, maybe The Airport Blockade Mk. II.... can't anyone just get hold of Thaksin, put him in a rocket and shoot him to the moon?? Better yet, to Mars. He can govern there all that he wants.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[animatic]

If someone is a Thai Citizen they can say what they like about the nations direction,

whether or not they are PAD or Red or Orange. As long as it isn't sedition or insurrection.

Regardless of what PAD as one entity did at one time, there is a new branch, a party called NPP,

and this will stand for office,and talk (endlessly) and this is a positive step,

constructive dialog rather than street action.

PTP has taken the regressive direction,

they don't talk in parliament, they disrupt and then start street actions to disrupt further.

I see these two opposite poles in the Thai political world as

ALSO acting in totally opposite logics too.

Like either side or neither, their methods are as inverse as their ideologies.

[MellowYellow]

If someone is a Thai Citizen they can say what they like about the nations direction,

whether or not they are PAD or Red or Orange. As long as it isn't sedition or insurrection.

Regardless of what PAD as one entity did at one time, there is a new branch, a party called NPP,

and this will stand for office,and talk (endlessly) and this is a positive step,

constructive dialog rather than street action.

PTP has taken the regressive direction,

they don't talk in parliament, they disrupt and then start street actions to disrupt further.

I see these two opposite poles in the Thai political world as

ALSO acting in totally opposite logics too.

Like either side or neither, their methods are as inverse as their ideologies.

Did you actually use the word "logic" in that blatantly hypocritical post?

Assume your conclusions and you must be correct.

Circular logic works because circular logic works because circular logic works.

Why don't you just stop altering your words slightly with every post. Just say what you say EVERY time. "All things Yellow iz goot! All things Red iz Bad! Yellow can do anything and it iz goot! Red can do nothing and iz always Bad!"

[yoshiwara]

If someone is a Thai Citizen they can say what they like about the nations direction,

whether or not they are PAD or Red or Orange. As long as it isn't sedition or insurrection.

Regardless of what PAD as one entity did at one time, there is a new branch, a party called NPP,

and this will stand for office,and talk (endlessly) and this is a positive step,

constructive dialog rather than street action.

PTP has taken the regressive direction,

they don't talk in parliament, they disrupt and then start street actions to disrupt further.

I see these two opposite poles in the Thai political world as

ALSO acting in totally opposite logics too.

Like either side or neither, their methods are as inverse as their ideologies.

Did you actually use the word "logic" in that blatantly hypocritical post?

Assume your conclusions and you must be correct.

Circular logic works because circular logic works because circular logic works.

Why don't you just stop altering your words slightly with every post. Just say what you say EVERY time. "All things Yellow iz goot! All things Red iz Bad! Yellow can do anything and it iz goot! Red can do nothing and iz always Bad!"

Actually, going in circles is a favourite activity of Thaksin apologists because everything comes back to arguing for the return of Thaksin to power so he can continue his money laundering and other criminal activities.

You try and circle around a number of topics, but it will always be bent back to supporting Thaksin the crook.

You get tetchy when this is pointed out to you. Very tetchy.

But you are in Thaksin's pocket.

Deep.

[geriatrickid]

Threads like this are just a rehash of the same crap over and over. Thaksin is bad, Thaksin is bogeyman, Thaksin make Thailand corrupt. The same gang of foreigners that have zero influence in Thailand, that have zero say in the matter, weigh in. It's their opinion and nothing else. Most members of TV don't even bother replying anymore because it is a waste of time. What purpose does it serve? None of the people here blaming everything on Thaksin have a role in the resolution of the issues under discussion anyway. I would pay attention if just one of these people was providing employment for a few hundred people, or was responsible for the advancement of Thai society. Isn't it odd that of all the foreign operations in Thailand, the big ones, like construction, oil exploration automotive, computers etc., none of the companies said boo? There were no frothing attacks as per the gang of TV bullies. No foreign governments railed against Thaksin as they did against other leaders.

We all know Thaksin had weaknesses. What Thai leader and its government hasn't? The reality is that there hasn't been any reduction in the levels of corruption in Thailand since Thaksin was over thrown by a military coup. Nor has there been any noticeable progress in human rights, quality of life, access to health care or education. PAD and its military pals said the skies would be blue, the sun would shine and prosperity would flow once Thaksin was ousted. It never happened.

Let me make it even simpler to grasp. Your views do not matter. You do not matter either because you are nothing in the scheme of things. You were marginalized in your home countries and you are nobodies here too. To those that hold sincere legitimate views, my comments are not intended for you. I respect your honest sentiments, and agree with many. It's just that after awhile one gets tired of the same crap puked up from people with some deeper issues at play.

[anotherpeter]

Threads like this are just a rehash of the same crap over and over. Thaksin is bad, Thaksin is bogeyman, Thaksin make Thailand corrupt. The same gang of foreigners that have zero influence in Thailand, that have zero say in the matter, weigh in. It's their opinion and nothing else. Most members of TV don't even bother replying anymore because it is a waste of time. What purpose does it serve? None of the people here blaming everything on Thaksin have a role in the resolution of the issues under discussion anyway. I would pay attention if just one of these people was providing employment for a few hundred people, or was responsible for the advancement of Thai society. Isn't it odd that of all the foreign operations in Thailand, the big ones, like construction, oil exploration automotive, computers etc., none of the companies said boo? There were no frothing attacks as per the gang of TV bullies. No foreign governments railed against Thaksin as they did against other leaders.

We all know Thaksin had weaknesses. What Thai leader and its government hasn't? The reality is that there hasn't been any reduction in the levels of corruption in Thailand since Thaksin was over thrown by a military coup. Nor has there been any noticeable progress in human rights, quality of life, access to health care or education. PAD and its military pals said the skies would be blue, the sun would shine and prosperity would flow once Thaksin was ousted. It never happened.

Let me make it even simpler to grasp. Your views do not matter. You do not matter either because you are nothing in the scheme of things. You were marginalized in your home countries and you are nobodies here too. To those that hold sincere legitimate views, my comments are not intended for you. I respect your honest sentiments, and agree with many. It's just that after awhile one gets tired of the same crap puked up from people with some deeper issues at play.

This situation affects everyone who lives in Thailand, has families in Thailand, has girlfriends and friends in Thailand, has jobs in Thailand, pays taxes in Thailand, employs people in Thailand.

And everyone of these people have legitimate views, because it's a democracy (basically), and they are allowed to have these views.

And they are allowed to express those views.

Do you go into the football threads and post this with a football slant?

You have your views as a Thaksin supporter. Others have their views as Thaksin hater.

One of the differences seems to be that the Thaksin supporters are running out of excuses. So they come into these threads and tell everyone that they should shut up.

That's the sort of thing that Thaksin used to do. "You said something I didn't like. I'm going to sue you".

Edited March 31, 2010 by anotherpeter

[animatic]

If someone is a Thai Citizen they can say what they like about the nations direction,

whether or not they are PAD or Red or Orange. As long as it isn't sedition or insurrection....

.... I see these two opposite poles in the Thai political world as

ALSO acting in totally opposite logics too.

Like either side or neither, their methods are as inverse as their ideologies.

Did you actually use the word "logic" in that blatantly hypocritical post?

Assume your conclusions and you must be correct.

Circular logic works because circular logic works because circular logic works.

Why don't you just stop altering your words slightly with every post. Just say what you say EVERY time. "All things Yellow iz goot! All things Red iz Bad! Yellow can do anything and it iz goot! Red can do nothing and iz always Bad!"

What hypocrisies? Sorry i re-read it and I see none.

Maybe you misread. In fact I'm sure you did.

Or you are so biased anything not slamming the yellows ist verbotten.

"All things Yellow iz goot! All things Red iz Bad!"

Well I don't believe that, never have, and so I can't subscribe to that.

Nothing is gray for a true believer like you seem to be.

Black white, Red Yellow, night day,... same same

I see many shades of gray in the big picture.

All sides have good points and bad points...

My argument here was that these two ideological groups have functioned

in inverse logics to each other, in other ways than simply their hate of each other.

Besides just the Reds intractable love of Thaksin. There is a logic in this love of Thaksin,

but that logic is IMH built on emotional manipulation and the faulty footing of propaganda and lies.

Logic exists, even in the mind of a madman, it's just not good logic.

logic –noun

1. the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.

2. a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic.

3. the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.

4. reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions: There wasn't much logic in her move.

5. convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness: the irresistible logic of the facts.

6. Computers. logic circuit.

Edited March 31, 2010 by animatic

[craigt3365]

Threads like this are just a rehash of the same crap over and over. Thaksin is bad, Thaksin is bogeyman, Thaksin make Thailand corrupt. The same gang of foreigners that have zero influence in Thailand, that have zero say in the matter, weigh in. It's their opinion and nothing else. Most members of TV don't even bother replying anymore because it is a waste of time. What purpose does it serve? None of the people here blaming everything on Thaksin have a role in the resolution of the issues under discussion anyway. I would pay attention if just one of these people was providing employment for a few hundred people, or was responsible for the advancement of Thai society. Isn't it odd that of all the foreign operations in Thailand, the big ones, like construction, oil exploration automotive, computers etc., none of the companies said boo? There were no frothing attacks as per the gang of TV bullies. No foreign governments railed against Thaksin as they did against other leaders.

We all know Thaksin had weaknesses. What Thai leader and its government hasn't? The reality is that there hasn't been any reduction in the levels of corruption in Thailand since Thaksin was over thrown by a military coup. Nor has there been any noticeable progress in human rights, quality of life, access to health care or education. PAD and its military pals said the skies would be blue, the sun would shine and prosperity would flow once Thaksin was ousted. It never happened.

Let me make it even simpler to grasp. Your views do not matter. You do not matter either because you are nothing in the scheme of things. You were marginalized in your home countries and you are nobodies here too. To those that hold sincere legitimate views, my comments are not intended for you. I respect your honest sentiments, and agree with many. It's just that after awhile one gets tired of the same crap puked up from people with some deeper issues at play.

TV is a forum where we can all express our opinions. Hopefully, without bashing others. Those that do are not really welcomed here. Comments like yours add nothing of value.

Yes, foreign governments are rallying against Thaksin. He has been kicked out of many and now has passports from various 3rd world countries just so he can sneak around. Those TV bullies you refer to...were they wearing red the past few days? Sure seemed that way to pretty much everybody...

You are correct about the corruption...it was bad before Thaksin, bad with him, and will be bad in the future. Even if the reds get their way and have their man setup as PM. Nothing will change there...unfortunately.

I think your last sentence sums up your post quite well...

[geriatrickid]

Peter,

Please note that I do accept that some people have a legit position. That's not in dispute. What i object to is the same lines repeated a nauseum from the clique of nasties.

Unfortunately, the mere fact that one pays taxes and has a family doesn't give one a right to voice an opinion in Thailand. Please read the applicable laws. Thailand isn't a democracy. For the Thaksin blamers, it was a kleptocracy. (Not that I would disagree.) For those that know the political history of Thailand, these "elected" governments are merely pauses in between military rule. There can never be a democracy in Thailand as long as the military is not responsible to an elected government. The reality is that foreigners residing in Thailand have limited rights, and their opinions are not taken into consideration. The typical foreigner in Thailand is a nobody. Sorry, but that's the reality. The government doesn't care what you think. It was that way with Thaksin and it is that way with Abhisit.

The issue for me isn't the voicing of an opinion. Go for it, as I agree with many of them. What I dislike is the same gang repeating the same crap over and over, Never a solution offered, just Thaksin is to blame for everything. The beer bar failed? Blame Thaksin. The male prostitute ran off with the wallet? Blame Thaksin. The wife was arrested in Bangkok because she looked like a hooker, blame Thaksin.

Don't assume I am a Thaksin supporter. The biggest mistake people make is assuming that the "Reds" are Thaksin supporters. He is using them but they are also using him to get a crack at a better life and to tear down the walls of social inequity.

For all of the arguing back and forth, what has been accomplished? I get my pay whether Thaksin or Abhisit is in power. Many people that have such angry views are collecting their disability or pension cheques whether or not Thaksin is there. All I'm saying is that the political bickering in TV is a waste and achieves nothing. Some people would be better off taking up a hobby or volunteering. Others really do need some mental health care.

[anotherpeter]

Peter,

Please note that I do accept that some people have a legit position. That's not in dispute. What i object to is the same lines repeated a nauseum from the clique of nasties.

Unfortunately, the mere fact that one pays taxes and has a family doesn't give one a right to voice an opinion in Thailand. Please read the applicable laws. Thailand isn't a democracy. For the Thaksin blamers, it was a kleptocracy. (Not that I would disagree.) For those that know the political history of Thailand, these "elected" governments are merely pauses in between military rule. There can never be a democracy in Thailand as long as the military is not responsible to an elected government. The reality is that foreigners residing in Thailand have limited rights, and their opinions are not taken into consideration. The typical foreigner in Thailand is a nobody. Sorry, but that's the reality. The government doesn't care what you think. It was that way with Thaksin and it is that way with Abhisit.

The issue for me isn't the voicing of an opinion. Go for it, as I agree with many of them. What I dislike is the same gang repeating the same crap over and over, Never a solution offered, just Thaksin is to blame for everything. The beer bar failed? Blame Thaksin. The male prostitute ran off with the wallet? Blame Thaksin. The wife was arrested in Bangkok because she looked like a hooker, blame Thaksin.

Don't assume I am a Thaksin supporter. The biggest mistake people make is assuming that the "Reds" are Thaksin supporters. He is using them but they are also using him to get a crack at a better life and to tear down the walls of social inequity.

For all of the arguing back and forth, what has been accomplished? I get my pay whether Thaksin or Abhisit is in power. Many people that have such angry views are collecting their disability or pension cheques whether or not Thaksin is there. All I'm saying is that the political bickering in TV is a waste and achieves nothing. Some people would be better off taking up a hobby or volunteering. Others really do need some mental health care.

I certainly don't blame Thaksin for everything. Corruption is the problem. Thaksin certainly isn't the only corrupt one out there, but he was dam_n good at it. And he definitely isn't what Thailand need to move forward.

A lot of people that post here may not have a vote, but they do have an influence. And if they can influence some people to open their eyes to more than Red TV, then they have acheived something.

The biggest problem with the "reds" are their links with Thaksin. They would get a million people on the street if Thaksin wasn't involved with them. Most people in Thailand have come from a poor background, so there is plenty of sympathy for the poor. But there is very little sympathy for Thaksin and his cronies who have exploited the poor.

Unfortunately, being a red supporter (for whatever reason) makes you a supporter of Thaksin, because if the reds get their way, then Thaksin will get his way too. And then there will be a million people protesting on the streets to get rid of him.

I am certainly not saying that the Thailand will be perfect without Thaksin, but it will be a big step forward.

The poor are more aware of their rights because of Thaksin. That is about the only good thing he did for them. Now they have to realise that the rich up-country "elite" are their problem, and they need to do something about that.

[animatic]

....Let me make it even simpler to grasp. Your views do not matter. You do not matter either because you are nothing in the scheme of things. You were marginalized in your home countries and you are nobodies here too. To those that hold sincere legitimate views, my comments are not intended for you. I respect your honest sentiments, and agree with many. It's just that after awhile one gets tired of the same crap puked up from people with some deeper issues at play.

Well this is a global attack on those you disagree with since those must be insincere views...

"You do not matter either because you are nothing in the scheme of things."

How to win friends and influence people... very smooth dude.

Everyones world is their own, and my views are more valid in my part of the world

than yours are in my part of the world, no matter what your ego would like to imply.

Everyones views are valid if they actually are their own views and not paid for propaganda.

Whether our views as individuals hold more or less weight is irrelevant

and calling people marginalized in their own countries doesn't make you many friends.

And imply some 'deeper issues at play' is a nasty little cut at many.

Tact doesn't seem to be of much value in your world... c'est la vie.

[mazeltov]

Threads like this are just a rehash of the same crap over and over. Thaksin is bad, Thaksin is bogeyman, Thaksin make Thailand corrupt. The same gang of foreigners that have zero influence in Thailand, that have zero say in the matter, weigh in. It's their opinion and nothing else. Most members of TV don't even bother replying anymore because it is a waste of time. What purpose does it serve? None of the people here blaming everything on Thaksin have a role in the resolution of the issues under discussion anyway. I would pay attention if just one of these people was providing employment for a few hundred people, or was responsible for the advancement of Thai society. Isn't it odd that of all the foreign operations in Thailand, the big ones, like construction, oil exploration automotive, computers etc., none of the companies said boo? There were no frothing attacks as per the gang of TV bullies. No foreign governments railed against Thaksin as they did against other leaders.

We all know Thaksin had weaknesses. What Thai leader and its government hasn't? The reality is that there hasn't been any reduction in the levels of corruption in Thailand since Thaksin was over thrown by a military coup. Nor has there been any noticeable progress in human rights, quality of life, access to health care or education. PAD and its military pals said the skies would be blue, the sun would shine and prosperity would flow once Thaksin was ousted. It never happened.

Let me make it even simpler to grasp. Your views do not matter. You do not matter either because you are nothing in the scheme of things. You were marginalized in your home countries and you are nobodies here too. To those that hold sincere legitimate views, my comments are not intended for you. I respect your honest sentiments, and agree with many. It's just that after awhile one gets tired of the same crap puked up from people with some deeper issues at play.

This situation affects everyone who lives in Thailand, has families in Thailand, has girlfriends and friends in Thailand, has jobs in Thailand, pays taxes in Thailand, employs people in Thailand.

And everyone of these people have legitimate views, because it's a democracy (basically), and they are allowed to have these views.

And they are allowed to express those views.

Do you go into the football threads and post this with a football slant?

You have your views as a Thaksin supporter. Others have their views as Thaksin hater.

One of the differences seems to be that the Thaksin supporters are running out of excuses. So they come into these threads and tell everyone that they should shut up.

That's the sort of thing that Thaksin used to do. "You said something I didn't like. I'm going to sue you".

your hate makes you blind.

disclaimer for haters with b/w logic: that doesn't mean that you have to love thaksin, but its better to become realistic and to look at few other issues too.

otherwise just type ' i hate Thaksin' all the time. your point is clear but don't start to argue if you have no other motivation for the debate.

[Insight]

your hate makes you blind.

disclaimer for haters with b/w logic: that doesn't mean that you have to love thaksin, but its better to become realistic and to look at few other issues too.

otherwise just type ' i hate Thaksin' all the time. your point is clear but don't start to argue if you have no other motivation for the debate.

Do you want people to stop picking on him?

This forum has posts in their thousands expressing why people have come to to dislike him so much. If this "hate clouds your judgement" approach is all what's remaining then it's a pretty crap defence IMHO.

[anotherpeter]

your hate makes you blind.

disclaimer for haters with b/w logic: that doesn't mean that you have to love thaksin, but its better to become realistic and to look at few other issues too.

otherwise just type ' i hate Thaksin' all the time. your point is clear but don't start to argue if you have no other motivation for the debate.

Why don't you try and debate my argument rather than just saying "I hate Thaksin".

I don't like Thaksin because the facts have convinced me that he is not a likable person.

Please provide some facts to convince me otherwise.

[ovaltina]

I commend the government for allowing this circus to continue. I wouldn't think many other countries would allow this to go on for so long?

How many governments do you know who violently crack down on a peaceful protest? Oh wait: China, Burma, North Korea, Zimbabwe.. right, quite as lot actually, but none that Thailand would aspire to imitate. The Ukrainian Orange Revolution, while probably not really a revolution, took quite a while too.

Also in London last year, armed police at a peaceful sit-down protest, beat unarmed women, and attacked a passer-by who was just walking home from work & had nothing to do with the protest, he fell to the ground & died of internal injuries at the scene & on camera.

Most governments including Europe send armed police to peacful protests, "for the safety of everyone", and most police forces have amongst their ranks total 'wide-boys' who can't wait to bash some hippies or even a passer by.

Edited March 31, 2010 by ovaltina

[MellowYellow]

If someone is a Thai Citizen they can say what they like about the nations direction,

whether or not they are PAD or Red or Orange. As long as it isn't sedition or insurrection....

.... I see these two opposite poles in the Thai political world as

ALSO acting in totally opposite logics too.

Like either side or neither, their methods are as inverse as their ideologies.

Did you actually use the word "logic" in that blatantly hypocritical post?

Assume your conclusions and you must be correct.

Circular logic works because circular logic works because circular logic works.

Why don't you just stop altering your words slightly with every post. Just say what you say EVERY time. "All things Yellow iz goot! All things Red iz Bad! Yellow can do anything and it iz goot! Red can do nothing and iz always Bad!"

What hypocrisies? Sorry i re-read it and I see none.

Maybe you misread. In fact I'm sure you did.

Or you are so biased anything not slamming the yellows ist verbotten.

"All things Yellow iz goot! All things Red iz Bad!"

Well I don't believe that, never have, and so I can't subscribe to that.

Nothing is gray for a true believer like you seem to be.

Black white, Red Yellow, night day,... same same

I see many shades of gray in the big picture.

All sides have good points and bad points...

My argument here was that these two ideological groups have functioned

in inverse logics to each other, in other ways than simply their hate of each other.

Besides just the Reds intractable love of Thaksin. There is a logic in this love of Thaksin,

but that logic is IMH built on emotional manipulation and the faulty footing of propaganda and lies.

Logic exists, even in the mind of a madman, it's just not good logic.

logic –noun

1. the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.

2. a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic.

3. the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.

4. reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions: There wasn't much logic in her move.

5. convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness: the irresistible logic of the facts.

6. Computers. logic circuit.

Many of your posts downplay the illegality and violence brought forth by the PAD and highlighting/hyperbolizing the current demonstrations of the Red movement. I see that as hypocritical.

How you arrive at you conclusions to support one side and decry another side, as presented in your posts does not appear to follow a logic based approach.

We can look at 100s of your posts going back to the PAD deomonstrations to see the same trend.

In my opinion, if you wish to decry the red movement and their protests, you need to balance that with equal outrage at the PAD and the government they helped take power.

I have repeatedly stated Thaksin is no good for Thailand but support the red movement ideals. I still get flamed as "thaksinite" "Thaksin apologist." I do NOT support violence on either side. You seem to support it depending upon what color shirt is worn.

In Summary, your criticism of the red movement and anything to do with it lacks credibility when you defend the same actions from their political opponents.

Edited March 31, 2010 by MellowYellow

[animatic]

Many of your posts downplay the illegality and violence brought forth by the PAD and highlighting/hyperbolizing the current demonstrations of the Red movement. I see that as hypocritical.

How you arrive at you conclusions to support one side and decry another side, as presented in your posts does not appear to follow a logic based approach.

We can look at 100s of your posts going back to the PAD deomonstrations to see the same trend.

In my opinion, if you wish to decry the red movement and their protests, you need to balance that with equal outrage at the PAD and the government they helped take power.

I have repeatedly stated Thaksin is no good for Thailand but support the red movement ideals. I still get flamed as "thaksinite" "Thaksin apologist." I do NOT support violence on either side. You seem to support it depending upon what color shirt is worn.

In Summary, your criticism of the red movement and anything to do with it lacks credibility when you defend the same actions from their political opponents.

A couple of points, while I am not pleased with many of PADs actions,

But PAD has gone essentially into hibernation and will see court.

Let the courts decide. They will eventually.

But I also point out were PAD actions were forced by Red actions before,

and for ever action there is often an equal or greater reaction.

If I think PAD acted from their hand being forced by Reds, I am less inclined to

solely blame PAD for what came next.

I am considerably less pleased with a higher percentage of the long term historical Reds actions.

Sorry but the red Shorts UDD DAAD RCM51 and Kwanchais bunch

ALL have a long term history of intolerant violence against dissenting voices,

and no amount of PR rebranding has erased that image from my thoughts.

And no doubt most of the Thais I encounter.

But the main point being that;

one was after bringing down Thaksin who I have considered a scourge on Thailand for some time,

and the other to bring him back to vengeful power, whatever rebranding is being

attempted on this red movement. In the end result Thaksin is back,

and with a vengeance we know from the past he has...

I violent group actively trying to bring back a proto-dictator with mental issues,

or a group sitting back in their offices and occasionally talking and planning a

political party to run next election.

Sorry there is no chance I can see the yellows as worse than the reds...

too much history they have not lived down....

Which doesn make the yellows great, it just means the Reds

are not what they pretend these days

Next for someone with 90 posts since Feb 2008.

How would you know so much about my long term posting history,

unless you are part of an organized group attempting to downplay

all contradictory thoughts to Red / Thaksin chosen world views.

You rarely posted, and then a sudden flurry all with the same points.

~Like you have been saving Nicks to use, and storing up ideas.

I am not foolish enough to believe Thaksin can't afford an team

to not just create world perceptions to his choosing,

but also attack in various ways those that talk a differing logic

that refutes the truth he would like to have created.

Shot the messengers, often if possible.

The classic: a lie told often enough becomes truth,

and if you can diminish those arguing against the lie,

that lie works faster better and wider.

Just because the Red Shirt leaders are inept,

doesn't mean that his media perception team is unprofessional.

I assume it is and I assume it is on TVF doing it's job.

So hack away, collect your check, and hope for the best.

Edited March 31, 2010 by animatic

[MellowYellow]

A couple of points, while I am not pleased with many of PADs actions,

But PAD has gone essentially into hibernation and will see court.

Let the courts decide. They will eventually.

You are not pleased.

You don't completely support.

Maybe they were slightly overzealous.

Perhaps they did some minor wrong.

etc.

etc.

etc.

Qualifed language and kid gloves whenevr discussing the violent and illegal actions of the PAD.

But I also point out were PAD actions were forced by Red actions before,

and for ever action there is often an equal or greater reaction.

If I think PAD acted from their hand being forced by Reds, I am less inclined to

solely blame PAD for what came next.

More qualified "they were forced into it" language.

Seriously, they seized government house. They seized airports. They held both for a long period of time.

Are you saying these EVIL EVIL EVIL reds forced them to seize government house and the airports?

Are they little children forced to commit violence, theft, and siege under threat of death?

Why is so hard to admit that they commited violence of their own accord. They disrupted Bangkok of their own accord. They seized airports and held the country ransom of their OWN ACCORD.

Why do they NOT bear full responsibility for their actions?

How can you explain it all away?

I am considerably less pleased with a higher percentage of the long term historical Reds actions.

Sorry but the red Shorts UDD DAAD RCM51 and Kwanchais bunch

ALL have a long term history of intolerant violence against dissenting voices,

and no amount of PR rebranding has erased that image from my thoughts.

And no doubt most of the Thais I encounter.

Yes. The reds have commited illegal acts and violent acts.

They are certainly not angels or clean. Elements of the movement are clearly not peaceful or useful to Thai democracy.

See that is easy to say. Go on and try to say it about the PAD. It is equally true.

Most of the Thais you encounter?

Are you telling us that you routinely engage in political discussion with random Thai strangers?

I find this hard to believe. I'm not calling you a liar (as is your and your gangmates habit) I'm just saying it is hard to believe that your walking around discussing politics with Thais. How does the topic come up? How do debate with Thais who disagree with you w/o it getting heated and dangerous?

But the main point being that;

one was after bringing down Thaksin who I have considered a scourge on Thailand for some time,

and the other to bring him back to vengeful power, whatever rebranding is being

attempted on this red movement. In the end result Thaksin is back,

and with a vengeance we know from the past he has...

I violent group actively trying to bring back a proto-dictator with mental issues,

or a group sitting back in their offices and occasionally talking and planning a

political party to run next election.

Sorry there is no chance I can see the yellows as worse than the reds...

too much history they have not lived down....

Which doesn make the yellows great, it just means the Reds

are not what they pretend these days

PAD's ONLY interest was bringing down Thaksin? Really? I think that is a fairly simplistic view. They themselves advanced far more of an agenda and now have formed a political party to advance said agenda, including in there own name, "New Politics." The politics of shifting even more power into the hands of the elite.

The red movement's ONLY interest is to bring Thaksin back to power? Really? I think that is a fairly simplistic view. They have advanced more causes than that. This is even admitted to by you in other threads.

[MellowYellow]

Next for someone with 90 posts since Feb 2008.

How would you know so much about my long term posting history,

unless you are part of an organized group attempting to downplay

all contradictory thoughts to Red / Thaksin chosen world views.

You rarely posted, and then a sudden flurry all with the same points.

~Like you have been saving Nicks to use, and storing up ideas.

I am not foolish enough to believe Thaksin can't afford an team

to not just create world perceptions to his choosing,

but also attack in various ways those that talk a differing logic

that refutes the truth he would like to have created.

Shot the messengers, often if possible.

The classic: a lie told often enough becomes truth,

and if you can diminish those arguing against the lie,

that lie works faster better and wider.

Just because the Red Shirt leaders are inept,

doesn't mean that his media perception team is unprofessional.

I assume it is and I assume it is on TVF doing it's job.

So hack away, collect your check, and hope for the best.

Ah! Yes! we get to the heart of your style. Can't debate? Can't accurately refute? Shift to personal attack and labelling.

You are only a step above yokoshira who just randomly pops up screaming "THAKSIN APOLOGIST!" like a parrot on repeat.

You keep telling your OWN lie and now actually believe it.

Those who disagree MUST, just MUST be Thaksin apologists. LOL

AT the same time you'll start screeching how you are color blind when anyone even considers labeling you.

More personal attacks. Yum yum. High end debate. High end thinking.

[yoshiwara]

Next for someone with 90 posts since Feb 2008.

How would you know so much about my long term posting history,

unless you are part of an organized group attempting to downplay

all contradictory thoughts to Red / Thaksin chosen world views.

You rarely posted, and then a sudden flurry all with the same points.

~Like you have been saving Nicks to use, and storing up ideas.

I am not foolish enough to believe Thaksin can't afford an team

to not just create world perceptions to his choosing,

but also attack in various ways those that talk a differing logic

that refutes the truth he would like to have created.

Shot the messengers, often if possible.

The classic: a lie told often enough becomes truth,

and if you can diminish those arguing against the lie,

that lie works faster better and wider.

Just because the Red Shirt leaders are inept,

doesn't mean that his media perception team is unprofessional.

I assume it is and I assume it is on TVF doing it's job.

So hack away, collect your check, and hope for the best.

Ah! Yes! we get to the heart of your style. Can't debate? Can't accurately refute? Shift to personal attack and labelling.

You are only a step above yokoshira who just randomly pops up screaming "THAKSIN APOLOGIST!" like a parrot on repeat.

You keep telling your OWN lie and now actually believe it.

Those who disagree MUST, just MUST be Thaksin apologists. LOL

AT the same time you'll start screeching how you are color blind when anyone even considers labeling you.

More personal attacks. Yum yum. High end debate. High end thinking.

In your case you are.

Its not exactly rocket science.

Quack! Quack!

[animatic]

Just so much distraction from the points made by opposing thoughts.

It's a tactic...

Even if he isn't doing this professionally, he is still being led by the nose, albiet unwittingly

by someone who is salting the waters with Thaksins version of truth.

A fairly simplistic view. Nicholas Creel would be proud.

[bemebecoolthai]

My opinion, no charter amendments yet, first the elections, and then the amendments by the majority 'chosen by the people' and not backed by any protest group / army or any other group.

Thailand will need some new political parties then...

I agree with you!!!! >> Thailand needs new political parties with no Abhisit.... He's baking like a lier doggy!! shut up!!

[TheOldWolf]

Mellowyellow:

"I have repeatedly stated Thaksin is no good for Thailand but support the red movement ideals".

Pelase tell me about the red movements ideals! I am very curios