Abhisit

[Oldvisitor]

Don't forget who completed swampy and many other projects. Now he's in Russia talking with a billionair to invest in Thailand, to create more jobs.

[LuckyFive8888]

Don't forget who completed swampy and many other projects. Now he's in Russia talking with a billionair to invest in Thailand, to create more jobs.

no one will forget that don't worry. there was so much corruption on swampy project and i don't need to elaborate as the people already knew. you know, the more project in thailand the more corruption for Thaksin and his cronies. i think if Thaksin is still around 3G would have been started 3 years ago, licenses awarded to AIS of course, there is disneyland and casinos in pattaya now, gambling will be legal now, the piece of land that Thaksin bought in the middle of bangkok will be AIS building number 4 now, and so many more projects but all are for Thaksin's benefits and conflict of interest. is this what you are trying to say???

[dobadoy]

Don't forget who completed swampy and many other projects. Now he's in Russia talking with a billionair to invest in Thailand, to create more jobs.

And don't forget it was Thaksin who vehemently opposed the Skytrain extensions precisley because he and his mates weren't in on it. The one that's been built was done by the last Bkk governor out of city funds because Thaksin and TRT both refused to fund it and tried legistlavite ways to hold it up at every step.

You might also remember that Thaksin floated the idea of a Swampy City not long after lots of the land suddenly got bought up around there.

I know they're all bent, and I know TS got more things done than others, but none of that is an excuse to go back to a Thaksin-supported government or to wipe it all under the carpet on the grounds that the Dem's are bent too. People need to take a long hard look at what kind of society they want to live in and stop this myth that Thaksin is in anyway part of the solution. He and all like him (Democrat's included) are THE PROBLEM.

[Ricardo]

You might also remember that Thaksin floated the idea of a Swampy City not long after lots of the land suddenly got bought up around there.

Personally I thought the idea of a separate province, perhaps you could call it 'Swampy Free-Port', was an inspired idea ! Just think of the long-term tax-free cash-flows/brown-envelopes it might have generated. And of course DL and his fellow-investors would have shared their 'good-fortune' with the rest of the country, just as they did, with the Shin-Corp sale !

It would have been yet-another TRT shining-example, of using pork-barrel politics and political-influence, to generate profit for the few, dare one call them the elite ? And plenty of minimum-wage jobs, for the poor, mustn't forget them must they !

[Sing_Sling]

In direct response to you attempted at humour. I stress the word 'attempted'.

Oh, your URL comment . . . another bit of attempted humour?

Yeah, a few years shy on the ol' experience there to match certain levels of wit

Would you agree that Facebook users come from a broad spectrum of Thailand's inhabitants? Of course the usage in cities is quite large . . . what do they use the internet cafes for? Generally. Games or political discourse?

I simply don't believe that political activism, on the level of internet activity is as widespread among all demographics as some point out.

But there have been constant references to Thaksin's Twitter following in the media over recent years...? Thus one could conclude there's ground to be made with online representation both sides are competing for?

Good point, I hadn't thought of that. Could be that they are both competing for the same people on the internet then? I still find it hard to believe that Noi (52) and Chiap (54) from Nakhorn Nowhere (pop. 548) are internet-savvy as opposed to just voting what the Puu Yai tells them to.

The whole situation in Thailand is just getting more and more confusing

[thaihome]

Seems like the PAD are getting ready to pull their shirts on...

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...D-30125897.html

Of course, the actual statement in the article completely contradicts your assumption, but don't let that stop your attempts at sensationalism

"The PAD called for its supporters to exercise utmost restraint and not to confront the red shirts."

TH

Yeah, buddy, and what does the NEXT line say?

"The PAD would soon call a meeting of its network to seek a solution to lead the country out of crisis, the statement said."

Did you get the tense I used in the phrase "getting ready to"?

You got the idea now, smart guy?

Yeah, I got the idea. Nowhere does it say they intend to demonstrate in anyway. As I stated, what they explicitly said was they would avoid confrontation.

You are simply hypothesizing without any evidence to a conclusion clouded by your subjective view of the PAD.

Please refrain from personal insults and try to keep the discussion on a factual basis’s or make sure what you are stating is an opinion, especially when the opinion is based on a complete lack of facts.

TH

[anotherpeter]

1) They currently have the support of the majority of MPs ... meaning support of the majority of Thailand.

As soon as any coaltion parties change support, then he won't have that support .....

You are confusing parliamentary support with popular support. Although sometimes the two are linked, and sometimes they may even be broadly similar, sometimes the absolute reverse can be the case. One simply does not automatically follow the other.

That isn't how it works, unfortunately, anywhere; if it was elections would be unnecessary - unless you are saying that prior to Newin Chidchob switching alliances "the majority of Thailand" opposed Abhisit, but by some miracle of mass telepathy the minute Chidchob switched alliances to become the king-maker rather than Thaksin's understudy "the majority of Thailand" changed their minds too and decided to support Abhisit.

No, I'm not actually. I didn't say that Abhisit had popular support. Otherwise the majority would have voted for the Democrats.

And based on the people that voted for the MPs, prior to Newin switching sides, the majority of Thailand did not support the Abhisit.

But the people voted for MPs to represent them. The MPs who switched their support, did so because they thought it was in the best interests of their electorate, the people that voted for them.

The point is, the MPs represent the people. Therefore the decisions that the MPs make represent what the people want or what the people need.

There is plenty of corruption around that effect these decisions, but the people need to deal with that. That doesn't make the democratic system any different.

[dobadoy]

You are simply hypothesizing without any evidence to a conclusion clouded by your subjective view of the PAD.

and where did you find me stating my "subjective view" about the PAD?

Please refrain from personal insults and try to keep the discussion on a factual basis's or make sure what you are stating is an opinion, especially when the opinion is based on a complete lack of facts.

TH

Oh, I see! You hypothesized it, stated iit was 'clouded' as a fact, rather than make clear it was your subjective opinion based on a complete lack of facts.

Three words for you buddy: pot - kettle - black

Here's a tip for ya sunshine, since you like dishing them out yourself: learn to read. I posted a link to a news story about the PAD, the first we've heard from them since the protests began. In it, it says they're considering taking action. My comment, an idiom in light-heared vein, was that 'they're considering pulling their shirts on' - that was also a reference to a post the day before in this thread where I pointed out that in all this talk of the red shirts and their demands, people were forgetting that the yellow shirts would not stand by and let them get their way.

So NO: you keep YOUR opinions clear, YOUR facts straight, and STOP jumping down my throat based on your subjective opinions about my views, about which you know nothing - cos cleary you haven't read the posts I've been making over the last couple of days.

I guess it can't be against the forum rules to use this smiley, since its in the list:

Edited March 31, 2010 by dobadoy

[lannarebirth]

Don't forget who completed swampy and many other projects. Now he's in Russia talking with a billionair to invest in Thailand, to create more jobs.

That reminds me of a funny story. A few years back a guy went to the Anti Corruption Commission to complain that he had paid Thaksin's sister 30 million baht (deposit toward a 300 million baht "fee") in order to secure the parking concession. He felt Thaksin was disingeuous when despite his "gift" the parking concession was awarded to another company. Thaksin's sister in her defense said the charges were ridiculous as "I am not even on the committee that awards the contracts" .

[dobadoy]

And the irony of that story is few people will think the guy who tried to bribe his way to get the concession did anything wrong; only Thaksin for not honouring the 'gift'.

I fail to see how Thailand's patronage culture will ever secure a way out of the inequality that has suddenly become the red shirts war cry. It's a cultural thing to favour those that are close to you, those that honour you, and those that do favours for you. It's not even a bad practice per se (look at the strength of family and social ties), it just has no place in business or politics. But separating those from the wider culture, whatever colour the shirt, I just don't see happening (i'm not even sure its possible).

Edited March 31, 2010 by dobadoy

[lannarebirth]

And the irony of that story is few people will think the guy who tried to bribe his way to get the concession did anything wrong; only Thaksin for not honouring the 'gift'.

I fail to see how Thailand's patronage culture will ever secure a way out of the inequality that has suddenly become the red shirts war cry. It's a cultural thing to favour those that are close to you, those that honour you, and those that do favours for you. It's not even a bad practice per se (look at the strength of family and social ties), it just has no place in business or politics. But separating those from the wider culture, whatever colour the shirt, I just don't see happening (i'm not even sure its possible).

The patronage system is not very different whether you're a Red or a Yellow. The only difference is the size of the budget they're splitting up. Reds tend to be more at local government levels while yelows infest the ministries.

Edited March 31, 2010 by lannarebirth

[anotherpeter]

And the irony of that story is few people will think the guy who tried to bribe his way to get the concession did anything wrong; only Thaksin for not honouring the 'gift'.

I fail to see how Thailand's patronage culture will ever secure a way out of the inequality that has suddenly become the red shirts war cry. It's a cultural thing to favour those that are close to you, those that honour you, and those that do favours for you. It's not even a bad practice per se (look at the strength of family and social ties), it just has no place in business or politics. But separating those from the wider culture, whatever colour the shirt, I just don't see happening (i'm not even sure its possible).

It's the strength of the family and social ties that often get abused. I have seen a number of times where a family member has stolen something from the family, but they get forgiven because they are family. Contracts are based on hand shakes or non-legal documents. Then something happens and the contract is null and void. People lose and gain a lot of money this way. It's the niave and gullible that lose the most, and corrupt that gain. In business, it's all about who you know, not who you can trust. And to make anything happen, you have to keep your "friends" involved, not because they did anything to help, but just because they are your "friends".

Until some of this is changed, the corruption will continue.

[dobadoy]

It's the strength of the family and social ties that often get abused. I have seen a number of times where a family member has stolen something from the family, but they get forgiven because they are family. Contracts are based on hand shakes or non-legal documents. Then something happens and the contract is null and void. People lose and gain a lot of money this way. It's the niave and gullible that lose the most, and corrupt that gain. In business, it's all about who you know, not who you can trust. And to make anything happen, you have to keep your "friends" involved, not because they did anything to help, but just because they are your "friends".

Until some of this is changed, the corruption will continue.

I agree peter. I see this in some of my wife's exteneded family, but it also functions as a kind of welfare security for the inept and incompetent.

Here's a story to illustrate: A couple of months ago relative of my wife's borrowed a couple of thousand baht off me; promises were made as to payback date, broken, re-made and so on. I told my wife to tell her she could keep the money, but that it would be pointless ever coming back for more. The broken promise meant more to me than the money. However, the borrower's sister paid the money back for her, on the condition that we didn't tell the borrower. The sister didn't want us to be out of pocket, but didn't want her sister to be let of 'the moral hook'. I told the sister not to worry, but she insisted.

It's that kind of loyalty and integrity that often goes overlooked in all the various comments and cynical stories you read on TV about thais and money, but I believe its more common than unusual. Certainly its not the only example I've seen in the many years I've been invovled with my wife's family and friends.

Sorry for going off-topic, but I thought it might interest some.

Edited March 31, 2010 by dobadoy

[lannarebirth]

Anyone see the picture of Abhisit on the nationweekend.com cover? Goes well with thw Thaksin as Superman image someone posted the other day.

[flying]

Anyone see the picture of Abhisit on the nationweekend.com cover? Goes well with thw Thaksin as Superman image someone posted the other day.

[dobadoy]

Anyone see the picture of Abhisit on the nationweekend.com cover? Goes well with thw Thaksin as Superman image someone posted the other day.

Oh ho! PR disaster with that one, surely!

[thaihome]

You are simply hypothesizing without any evidence to a conclusion clouded by your subjective view of the PAD.

and where did you find me stating my "subjective view" about the PAD?

Please refrain from personal insults and try to keep the discussion on a factual basis's or make sure what you are stating is an opinion, especially when the opinion is based on a complete lack of facts.

TH

Oh, I see! You hypothesized it, stated iit was 'clouded' as a fact, rather than make clear it was your subjective opinion based on a complete lack of facts.

Three words for you buddy: pot - kettle - black

Here's a tip for ya sunshine, since you like dishing them out yourself: learn to read. I posted a link to a news story about the PAD, the first we've heard from them since the protests began. In it, it says they're considering taking action. My comment, an idiom in light-heared vein, was that 'they're considering pulling their shirts on' - that was also a reference to a post the day before in this thread where I pointed out that in all this talk of the red shirts and their demands, people were forgetting that the yellow shirts would not stand by and let them get their way.

So NO: you keep YOUR opinions clear, YOUR facts straight, and STOP jumping down my throat based on your subjective opinions about my views, about which you know nothing - cos cleary you haven't read the posts I've been making over the last couple of days.

I guess it can't be against the forum rules to use this smiley, since its in the list:

I won't stoop to the name calling you seem to enjoy, but will instead continue to argue the facts.

Please show where the article you posted said the PAD was considering any ACTION. What is said was they would call a meeting to discuss a "solution". You are the one that jumped to the sensationalist conclusion that this was considering "putting their yellow shirts on"

Perhaps English is not your first language or your reading comprehension is low.

TH

[brd199]

And Thaksin himself of course can hold his own in any discussion or negotiation, business, politics or otherwise.

There's a near limitless library of youtube videos of a babbling, fumbling, stumbling Thaksin that overwhelmingly disputes that.

[lannarebirth]

And Thaksin himself of course can hold his own in any discussion or negotiation, business, politics or otherwise.

There's a near limitless library of youtube videos of a babbling, fumbling, stumbling Thaksin that overwhelmingly disputes that.

Discussion? Did he ever hold a discussion where he didn't preach and make himslf the topic under discussion?

Negotiation? You mean like those FTA's he negotiated that opened up Thai business sectors to foreign competition in exchange for those governments opening up their telecommunications sectors to Shin Corp?

Business? Did he ever run a business where his sales weren't "greased" or he didn't bribe his way or legislate his way into a competive advantage or monopoly position? Has he ever competed with any company on a level playing field?

Politics? "After me comes the flood" springs to mind.

[dobadoy]

I won't stoop to the name calling you seem to enjoy, but will instead continue to argue the facts.

Perhaps English is not your first language or your reading comprehension is low.

TH

Do you see any tension in your logic there, mister?

Second, do you understand "it seems like" as a modifier to indicate the suggestion that they might now be thinking of doing something (= "getting ready to put their shirts on"), or do you think the PAD are just meeting to have a nice cup of tea?

Edited March 31, 2010 by dobadoy

[thaihome]

I won't stoop to the name calling you seem to enjoy, but will instead continue to argue the facts.

Perhaps English is not your first language or your reading comprehension is low.

TH

Do you see any tension in your logic there, mister?

Second, do you understand "it seems like" as a modifier to indicate the suggestion that they might now be thinking of doing something (= "getting ready to put their shirts on"), or do you think the PAD are just meeting to have a nice cup of tea?

The phrase "it seems like” means a lot more then a suggestion. Seems is a copular verb and is used to indicate the impression you get from something or somebody. So what you said was "It appears to me that the Yellow Shirts are about to take some action. Again, the article stated the PAD members were being advised to do the opposite.

You were shit stirring and got called on it, just admit it and we are done.

TH

[PeaceBlondie]

Cool the insults.

[dobadoy]

The phrase "it seems like" means a lot more then a suggestion. Seems is a copular verb and is used to indicate the impression you get from something or somebody. So what you said was "It appears to me that the Yellow Shirts are about to take some action.

AT LAST you got something right!

In the alternative reality that you live in, is it possible they might be considering DOING SOEMTHING in this meeting?

No? OK, then. You win.

Edited March 31, 2010 by dobadoy

[JohnLeech]

But the people voted for MPs to represent them. The MPs who switched their support, did so because they thought it was in the best interests of their electorate, the people that voted for them.

The point is, the MPs represent the people. Therefore the decisions that the MPs make represent what the people want or what the people need.

"The MPs who switched their support" did so because they were from a political party called "the Friends of Newin Chidchob" and they did (and do) exactly what he told them to do and what was in his best interests; what was in the best interests of thr people of Buri Ram was immaterial.

The point is that what you are saying is what should happen, which does not necessarily have any connection at all with what does happen, either here or in any other country. If it did, then MPs, Prime Ministers and Presidents would only ever do "what the people want or what the people need", making any elections unnecessary - obviously they don't.

Sorry, but as I can't work out if you are winding me up, playing devil's advocate, or if you are just incredibly naive and ill-informed I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this particular topic.