Red-Shirt Leaders Urged To Bypass Thaksin

[webfact]

Red-shirt Leaders Urged to Bypass Thaksin

BANGKOK: -- Although the red-shirt core leaders have spurned the government's proposed time frame of nine months for the lower House to be disbanded, the premier is still keen to engage in another round of talks with the anti-government representatives.

Speaking prior to his departure for Bahrain today, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said the government's offer to dissolve the lower House within nine months was the most reasonable resolution to the current stand-off between the government and the red-shirt protesters.

The premier had presented the counter offer of a 9-month time frame in response to the red-shirt leaders' demand for him to disband the House in 15 days.

The representatives of the red-shirt protesters had immediately turned down the offer.

Abhisit, however, affirmed his government is ready to engage in more rounds of negotiation with the red-shirt group, but it must not use threat to assert pressure on the state to give in to its demand.

The premier hopes the public will realized that the government has tried its best to resolve the conflicts.

In a response to the red shirts' plan to intensify its protest, the premier said he is still unsure about the group's next course of action.

But he's urging rally-goers not to tall victim to fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra as his interests are not the same as those of the country.

Democrat party-list MP Chumni Sakdiseth who also participated in the two rounds of dialogue insisted the government's proposed House dissolution within nine months is the best solution.

But Chumni accepted the negotiation format was still a problem because it only involved representatives from two sides, but Chumni said many more than 2 parties are involved in the current national crisis.

Chumni, however, still expect the red-shirt core leaders to return to the negotiating table scheduled by the government for April 1.

But if they deny to do so, there must be other means to find a solution the current political deadlock.

PM's Office Minister Sathit Wongnongtoey said he wants to see the third round of negotiation, but cited it is difficult as the two previous talks failed to produce any concrete result.

He added that both parties must be very clear on the framework and scope of issues to be discussed.

As for the debate on the pros and cons of the broadcast on the talks, Sathit, who is also in charge of state run media, said the matter is irrelevant.

What matter most, according to Sathit, are the topics of discussion addressed by negotiators from both sides.

-- Tan Network 2010-03-30

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[hammered]

Nice idea. Wont happen.

[basjke]

unfortunately the negotiations on 1 april will have to continue wit 1 less red leader as their was one who said he would turn himself in on that date because of his outstanding arrest warrant

[Publicus]

Abhisit like Obama is making great efforts to reach out to the opposition, to show and to demonstrate to the general population - and to global leaders as well as investors - that as PM he is attempting to heal divisions within the society and in the political system and government.

Obama has learned that if the opposition wants to be "the party of 'no' " then it's necessary to procede without their support. Abhisit wants to communicate to all the Thai people that he's trying to unite the country and he knows and is thinking of the country as a whole. This is in sharp contrast to the Redshirts and their leaders who have their short agenda, at the top of which is Thaksin the divider, Thaksin the persistent fugitive, Thaksin the self-interested one.

Obama is meeting with success because of his electoral majority but continues to have a full plate. Abhisit can only dream of a clear electoral victory but is trying to position himself to win by presenting himself as the one who will give up the office if it would benefit the country, that Abhisit is the one who would accept electoral defeat should it occur. Abhisit is thus presenting himself as the man of reason in this unending conflict versus the wild man abroad who is obsessed to return to power and never will stop trying until he is ultimately successful - or ultimately rejected by the electorate in favor of the reasonable and balanced guy, Abhisit who can take or leave losing office (which is probably true).

Edited March 30, 2010 by Publicus

[maxpower]

What’s with the 9 month time frame, is this a prediction that something might happen to ensure this period is extended.

[anotherpeter]

What's with the 9 month time frame, is this a prediction that something might happen to ensure this period is extended.

It's a full year ahead of scheduled elections in 2011.

Abhisit gave a number of reason's last night.

- Get the budget through. Otherwise departments will run out of money.

- Have a referendum on constitution changes and have this separate from the election.

- It's a compromise ... not the 60 days that the reds want, and not the scheduled 21 months.

EDIT: And there are probably a few reasons the reds supporters can come up with too.

Edited March 30, 2010 by anotherpeter

[gemini81]

then who will sponser them now? They'll be broke, and have to turn in their grenade launchers and resort to sling shots. No more free somtam either.

[Publicus]

What's with the 9 month time frame, is this a prediction that something might happen to ensure this period is extended.

Abhisit is positioning himself to get more time whether it's within a nine month time frame or for another 4/5 years after the next nine months. Many of us hope he'll get whatever time he may need, that Thaksin steps into some quicksand in Dubai or Montenegro or wherever.

[tracymeaw]

Abhisit like Obama is making great efforts to reach out to the opposition, to show and to demonstrate to the general population - and to global leaders as well as investors - that as PM he is attempting to heal divisions within the society and in the political system and government.

Obama has learned that if the opposition wants to be "the party of 'no' " then it's necessary to procede without their support. Abhisit wants to communicate to all the Thai people that he's trying to unite the country and he knows and is thinking of the country as a whole. This is in sharp contrast to the Redshirts and their leaders who have their short agenda, at the top of which is Thaksin the divider, Thaksin the persistent fugitive, Thaksin the self-interested one.

Obama is meeting with success because of his electoral majority but continues to have a full plate. Abhisit can only dream of a clear electoral victory but is trying to position himself to win by presenting himself as the one who will give up the office if it would benefit the country, that Abhisit is the one who would accept electoral defeat should it occur. Abhisit is thus presenting himself as the man of reason in this unending conflict versus the wild man abroad who is obsessed to return to power and never will stop trying until he is ultimately successful - or ultimately rejected by the electorate in favor of the reasonable and balanced guy, Abhisit who can take or leave losing office (which is probably true).

Obama doesn't need permission to make decisions... apples and oranges.

[tracymeaw]

What’s with the 9 month time frame, is this a prediction that something might happen to ensure this period is extended.

Maybe the 9 months is needed to try and secure Thaksins remaining assets? Democracy can wait!

[yoshiwara]

Abhisit like Obama is making great efforts to reach out to the opposition, to show and to demonstrate to the general population - and to global leaders as well as investors - that as PM he is attempting to heal divisions within the society and in the political system and government.

Obama has learned that if the opposition wants to be "the party of 'no' " then it's necessary to procede without their support. Abhisit wants to communicate to all the Thai people that he's trying to unite the country and he knows and is thinking of the country as a whole. This is in sharp contrast to the Redshirts and their leaders who have their short agenda, at the top of which is Thaksin the divider, Thaksin the persistent fugitive, Thaksin the self-interested one.

Obama is meeting with success because of his electoral majority but continues to have a full plate. Abhisit can only dream of a clear electoral victory but is trying to position himself to win by presenting himself as the one who will give up the office if it would benefit the country, that Abhisit is the one who would accept electoral defeat should it occur. Abhisit is thus presenting himself as the man of reason in this unending conflict versus the wild man abroad who is obsessed to return to power and never will stop trying until he is ultimately successful - or ultimately rejected by the electorate in favor of the reasonable and balanced guy, Abhisit who can take or leave losing office (which is probably true).

Obama doesn't need permission to make decisions... apples and oranges.

What’s with the 9 month time frame, is this a prediction that something might happen to ensure this period is extended.

Maybe the 9 months is needed to try and secure Thaksins remaining assets? Democracy can wait!

2 meaningless comments in a row.

Don't be shy.

Tell us Thaksin is your hero.

We understand.

[Siam Simon]

'Democrat Leaders Urged To Bypass Anupong And His Unmentionable Controllers' Is the equivalent headline that you won't see, of course.

[eggomaniac]

Okay, I'm beginning to admire this Abhisit guy. He keeps talking about the 70% of Thais who do NOT consider themselves Red or Yellow. Maybe he has studied the successful Western politicians who did the bestjob of wooing the Silent Majorities!'

or maybe? he is a good guy....

[kraxlhuber]

<br />then who will sponser them now? They'll be broke, and have to turn in their grenade launchers and resort to sling shots. No more free somtam either.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Or voucher for KFC/Mc Donald

[animatic]

Abhisit like Obama is making great efforts to reach out to the opposition, to show and to demonstrate to the general population - and to global leaders as well as investors - that as PM he is attempting to heal divisions within the society and in the political system and government.

Obama has learned that if the opposition wants to be "the party of 'no' " then it's necessary to procede without their support. Abhisit wants to communicate to all the Thai people that he's trying to unite the country and he knows and is thinking of the country as a whole. This is in sharp contrast to the Redshirts and their leaders who have their short agenda, at the top of which is Thaksin the divider, Thaksin the persistent fugitive, Thaksin the self-interested one.

Obama is meeting with success because of his electoral majority but continues to have a full plate. Abhisit can only dream of a clear electoral victory but is trying to position himself to win by presenting himself as the one who will give up the office if it would benefit the country, that Abhisit is the one who would accept electoral defeat should it occur. Abhisit is thus presenting himself as the man of reason in this unending conflict versus the wild man abroad who is obsessed to return to power and never will stop trying until he is ultimately successful - or ultimately rejected by the electorate in favor of the reasonable and balanced guy, Abhisit who can take or leave losing office (which is probably true).

Obama doesn't need permission to make decisions... apples and oranges.

Don't fool yourself on that point.

No one gets to that level without having benefactors

and vested interests that MUST be considered even POTUS.

[ChiangMaiFun]

'Democrat Leaders Urged To Bypass Anupong And His Unmentionable Controllers' Is the equivalent headline that you won't see, of course.

haha good one... very apt

[ChiangMaiFun]

Okay, I'm beginning to admire this Abhisit guy. He keeps talking about the 70% of Thais who do NOT consider themselves Red or Yellow. Maybe he has studied the successful Western politicians who did the bestjob of wooing the Silent Majorities!'

or maybe? he is a good guy....

If he feels this insight is true... test it - have an election... he is speaking about dissolution already

[animatic]

Okay, I'm beginning to admire this Abhisit guy. He keeps talking about the 70% of Thais who do NOT consider themselves Red or Yellow. Maybe he has studied the successful Western politicians who did the bestjob of wooing the Silent Majorities!'

or maybe? he is a good guy....

Or just maybe BOTH ideas are correct.

But if he is a good guy, then not only is he wooing the silent majority,

but he also realizes that they deserve a voice and is giving them that voice also,

no matter what names and accusations are thrown his way.

The Red Leaders and apologists only try and say that the Amant bureaucrats and such

will get consulted, and deferred to, but I believe that this 70% of color less Thais are

very much in Abhisits general viewpoint, as needing to be considered/consulted.

Not just partners and benefactors.

Eggo, It's also nice to see someone who's point of view can me altered by

new information on a subject. It's called adjusting to new facts and observations.

Here's wishing more could have such mental flexibility, rather than dogmatic reflexiveness.

Edited March 31, 2010 by animatic

[ChiangMaiFun]

Okay, I'm beginning to admire this Abhisit guy. He keeps talking about the 70% of Thais who do NOT consider themselves Red or Yellow. Maybe he has studied the successful Western politicians who did the bestjob of wooing the Silent Majorities!'

or maybe? he is a good guy....

Or just maybe BOTH ideas are correct.

But if he is a good guy, then not only is he wooing the silent majority,

but he also realizes that they deserve a voice and is giving them that voice also,

no matter what names and accusations are thrown his way.

The Red Leaders and apologists only try and say that the Amant bureaucrats and such will get consulted,

and deferred to, but I believe that 70% of color less Thais are very much in Abhisits viewpoint,

as needing to be considered/consulted.

'if' 70% are 'in Abhisits viewpoint' then they are yellow and not 'colourless' - if Abhisit left that yellow camp then he would gain tons more credibility - he is not 'colourless' its BS

[scorecard]

Okay, I'm beginning to admire this Abhisit guy. He keeps talking about the 70% of Thais who do NOT consider themselves Red or Yellow. Maybe he has studied the successful Western politicians who did the bestjob of wooing the Silent Majorities!'

or maybe? he is a good guy....

Or just maybe BOTH ideas are correct.

But if he is a good guy, then not only is he wooing the silent majority,

but he also realizes that they deserve a voice and is giving them that voice also,

no matter what names and accusations are thrown his way.

The Red Leaders and apologists only try and say that the Amant bureaucrats and such will get consulted,

and deferred to, but I believe that 70% of color less Thais are very much in Abhisits viewpoint,

as needing to be considered/consulted.

'if' 70% are 'in Abhisits viewpoint' then they are yellow and not 'colourless' - if Abhisit left that yellow camp then he would gain tons more credibility - he is not 'colourless' its BS

Can't get past 'your either red or your yellow, can we?

[ChiangMaiFun]

Okay, I'm beginning to admire this Abhisit guy. He keeps talking about the 70% of Thais who do NOT consider themselves Red or Yellow. Maybe he has studied the successful Western politicians who did the bestjob of wooing the Silent Majorities!'

or maybe? he is a good guy....

Or just maybe BOTH ideas are correct.

But if he is a good guy, then not only is he wooing the silent majority,

but he also realizes that they deserve a voice and is giving them that voice also,

no matter what names and accusations are thrown his way.

The Red Leaders and apologists only try and say that the Amant bureaucrats and such will get consulted,

and deferred to, but I believe that 70% of color less Thais are very much in Abhisits viewpoint,

as needing to be considered/consulted.

'if' 70% are 'in Abhisits viewpoint' then they are yellow and not 'colourless' - if Abhisit left that yellow camp then he would gain tons more credibility - he is not 'colourless' its BS

Can't get past 'your either red or your yellow, can we?

sure can... if we can get the politicians past it too

[scorecard]

'if' 70% are 'in Abhisits viewpoint' then they are yellow and not 'colourless' - if Abhisit left that yellow camp then he would gain tons more credibility - he is not 'colourless' its BS

Can't get past 'your either red or your yellow, can we?

sure can... if we can get the politicians past it too

So you seem to be saying that all / most politicians are aligned to either the red or yellow camp.

Perhaps you'de like to share why you believe this.

[hammered]

What’s with the 9 month time frame, is this a prediction that something might happen to ensure this period is extended.

military reshuffle. Either Thaksin thinks that the next one will cement the military even more against him or he has made a few promises he needs to keep. You are going to read more and more anlysis on this issue imho

[anotherpeter]

'if' 70% are 'in Abhisits viewpoint' then they are yellow and not 'colourless' - if Abhisit left that yellow camp then he would gain tons more credibility - he is not 'colourless' its BS

You're going around in circles.

If they agree with Abhisit they are yellow, and if he left the yellow camp, then he is not yellow.

But if anyone agrees with him in his new camp then they must be yellow, which means he needs to leave that camp too.

And if anyone agrees with him in the third camp, then they must be yellow.

But going back to the point, just because yellow people agree with him, doesn't make him yellow. Just because he isn't red, it doesn't make him yellow.

EDIT: Maybe Abhisit needs to move to the red camp. Then they will be yellow too, and all the problems will be over.

Edited March 31, 2010 by anotherpeter

[animatic]

Or just maybe BOTH ideas are correct.

But if he is a good guy, then not only is he wooing the silent majority,

but he also realizes that they deserve a voice and is giving them that voice also,

no matter what names and accusations are thrown his way.

The Red Leaders and apologists only try and say that the Amant bureaucrats and such will get consulted,

and deferred to, but I believe that 70% of color less Thais are very much in Abhisits viewpoint,

as needing to be considered/consulted.

'if' 70% are 'in Abhisits viewpoint' then they are yellow and not 'colourless' - if Abhisit left that yellow camp then he would gain tons more credibility - he is not 'colourless' its BS

Can't get past 'your either red or your yellow, can we?

sure can... if we can get the politicians past it too

There are many who wish it would all just go away.

You seem to revel in this.

MOST people are NOT red or Yellow,

and having liked PARTS of either sides arguments, doesn't make you partisan to EITHER SIDE.

It just means you agreed on an individual idea, not a pressure groups platform.

[SurinLA]

What's with the 9 month time frame, is this a prediction that something might happen to ensure this period is extended.

9 is a lucky number in Thailand. 9 or KAW is like moving forward. Maybe he chooses it for his own blessing.

[animatic]

What’s with the 9 month time frame, is this a prediction that something might happen to ensure this period is extended.

military reshuffle. Either Thaksin thinks that the next one will cement the military even more against him or he has made a few promises he needs to keep. You are going to read more and more anlysis on this issue imho

Agreed.

His rigging of the military towards his control,

is due for a definitive removal of those chess moves from before.

It's taken time, but I think this was for the military one of it's main motivations.

It's not the military being 100% lock step against civilians having control over them,

just about Thaksin's TYPE of control. There is working with partners

and working for control freaks. We know Thaksin isn't known for consulting or listening...

Even soldiers don't like working for ears closed, control freaks,

those were the types to get fragged by their own men on combat...

The types making decisions based on their mental benefits and not the

benefits of the campaign, nor their men's ability to get the job done,

AND the job after.

Yes General, I cleared out that enemy base,

well sure I lost 98% of my men, but job done, Sir!

I can do it again, if you give me more men, Sir!

No, working under people like Thaksin would not be

pleasing to the military mentality in ANY nation.

Is this 'right'... well that's a toss up,

which leadership scenario does the most enduring national damage.

Some will start screaming it's the 900 lb gorillas fault ALL OF IT.

Others may take a more nuanced long term view...

[ChiangMaiFun]

'if' 70% are 'in Abhisits viewpoint' then they are yellow and not 'colourless' - if Abhisit left that yellow camp then he would gain tons more credibility - he is not 'colourless' its BS

Can't get past 'your either red or your yellow, can we?

sure can... if we can get the politicians past it too

There are many who wish it would all just go away.

You seem to revel in this.

MOST people are NOT red or Yellow,

and having liked PARTS of either sides arguments, doesn't make you partisan to EITHER SIDE.

It just means you agreed on an individual idea, not a pressure groups platform.

That's just not true... surely you cannot now be claiming that this government is not yellow? that's absurd - most people do align (generally) with either camp - not unlike the US with Repubs/Dems or England Lab/Cons - not syaing they agree with all the policices but (generally) people do align - it's rubbish to assert they do not.

[anotherpeter]

That's just not true... surely you cannot now be claiming that this government is not yellow? that's absurd - most people do align (generally) with either camp - not unlike the US with Repubs/Dems or England Lab/Cons - not syaing they agree with all the policices but (generally) people do align - it's rubbish to assert they do not.

There are people out there that support part of what the reds want (ie help for the poor), but support Abhisit being the legitimate PM.

What colour are they?

They are neither. They don't support they reds efforts to overthrow a government. And they don't support the yellows efforts to overthrow a government.

[lannarebirth]

Okay, I'm beginning to admire this Abhisit guy. He keeps talking about the 70% of Thais who do NOT consider themselves Red or Yellow. Maybe he has studied the successful Western politicians who did the bestjob of wooing the Silent Majorities!'

or maybe? he is a good guy....

Or just maybe BOTH ideas are correct.

But if he is a good guy, then not only is he wooing the silent majority,

but he also realizes that they deserve a voice and is giving them that voice also,

no matter what names and accusations are thrown his way.

The Red Leaders and apologists only try and say that the Amant bureaucrats and such will get consulted,

and deferred to, but I believe that 70% of color less Thais are very much in Abhisits viewpoint,

as needing to be considered/consulted.

'if' 70% are 'in Abhisits viewpoint' then they are yellow and not 'colourless' - if Abhisit left that yellow camp then he would gain tons more credibility - he is not 'colourless' its BS

Can't get past 'your either red or your yellow, can we?

A lot of people can't seem to distinguish between what is a battle and what is a war. The struggle to turn Thailand into a more democratic, egalitarian society governed by the rule of law is a war. It is a war that will be comprised of many battles over the course of many years. This "Red"/"Yellow" thing is but one front of a single battle. The current battle being the ability of autocratically disposed leaders to corrupt the constitution and create division (the violent kind) amongst the populace. This particular battle has a human face and it is Thaksin. That one wishes to defeat that "enemy of the people" does not mean they are against the people who have been persuaded to offer him succour. On the contrary.