Fatal Accident

[Loz]

For the record

Dangerous driving and driving without due care and attention are too DIFFERENT Offences. They carry different penalties. Dangerous Driving usually involves "Intent" or at least blatant dissregard for safety. I don't think ANYWHERE the op aluded to that. Sounds more like a lapse of judgement. But that is just my interpretation.

[Flatouthruthefog]

DOn't be too pesimistic. Sounds like your insurance company (who will DOUBTLESS have retained counsel) have advised you along the way and you have played along nicely.

Good luck mate. THink positive.

Agree. But DO get a very good lawyer and do ensure that he talks to the insurance co's lawyer, so they both sing the same song.

If you PM me (and DO send me your own e-mail address please) I can strongly recommend a Bkk based lawyer (Thai of course) who has a full time American interpreter.

You may know that Embassies and Consuls are not allowed to RECOMMEND lawyers, but shall I just say that many foreigners with troubles here are pointed in the direction of this particular legal firm.

[DragonQuest]

Dude sorry to hear about your accident, my advice would be not to drive ever again, and you might face jail time even though you paid, you have to keep paying or make a run for it.

[Forkinhades]

I would avoid the court at all costs! Go see the Police and ask how much they want. You have probably already signed something saying that it was your fault (in thai), I fear if it goes to court you will get jail time (suspended) and deported!

[onnut]

Have a well connected friend contact the police for you. Do not go yourself, let them sort it out and you will be sorted in no time. You will still have to pay but get a well connected Thai to negotiate for you.

[DragonQuest]

You might even face Jail time in your home country, I'd make a run for it man, change your name too.

[NADTATIDA1]

For the record

Dangerous driving and driving without due care and attention are too DIFFERENT Offences. They carry different penalties. Dangerous Driving usually involves "Intent" or at least blatant dissregard for safety. I don't think ANYWHERE the op aluded to that. Sounds more like a lapse of judgement. But that is just my interpretation.

Yes Loz you are correct but the point i made was that in the west it could have been interpreted to dangerous driving.He is lucky it happened here,after all it was serious enough for somebody to lose there life.

The op fair play to him openly admits he just did not see him...which may or may not be construed as a disregard for safety,ie;dangerous driving.....now there is careless or inconsiderate driving..take a look!

Published today are the Sentencing Guidelines Council draft guidelines on sentencing fatal accident offences. The Road Safety Act 2006 introduced a new offence of causing death by careless or inconsiderate driving. It has not yet become law but will be in force in the near future. It fills a gap in that hitherto only the offence of careless driving could be charged in fatal accident cases (unless drink/drugs are involved or there was more serious driver conduct constituting dangerous driving). Importantly the existing offence of careless driving is not imprisonable. The new fatal driving offence will attract a maximum 5 year prison sentence. It has arisen from road safety pressure groups' lobbying. Some groups have already expressed outrage that it is conceivable that the starting point for consideration of sentencing in a fatal accident case could possibly be less than that of immediate custody. However, it is pointed out in the papers published today that “sometimes death results from a relatively minor error of judgment, to which every, however experienced, motorist is liable from time to time. Cases like these present sentencing judges with very difficult decisions, because the gravest consequences have to be balanced against varying levels of culpability”.

The proposals published do not suggest that prison sentences will not normally be imposed. This is currently being misrepresented and misreported. What is suggested is that cases of causing death by careless driving fall into three categories:

(a) the ones which are particularly serious and are not far from dangerous driving;

( 'middle band' seriousness cases and;

cases of careless or inconsiderate driving which arise from momentary inattention.

It is being recommended that the last of these categories ( i.e. momentary lapse cases) should be sentenced by way of community penalties e.g. tagging, community service etc whereas the first categories should have starting points of custody periods ranging from 26 weeks to 2 years imprisonment when sentencing is being considered.

The new provisions and others dealing with fatal accident cases involving uninsured, unlicensed or disqualified drivers ( max. 2 years' imprisonment) will be in force soon

Edited March 30, 2010 by NADTATIDA1

[DragonQuest]

Man forget doing the time just run lol

[G54]

As LoZ said re Dangerous and Careless driving.

We are all allowed a momentary lapse of concentration. We are human and not robots. If using a mobile phone, lighting a cigarette or there is some other similar reason for you not driving with full care and attention and cause a death, that is different.

In the OP's case it does appear to be careless, without intent. He does not say he was on the phone, smoking or changing a CD at the time so it would be an extremely harsh judgement to sentence him to any jail time in any remotely civilised country.

If the OP IS going to court he does need representation from someone qualified to handle the case be it the insurance representative or one he seeks out himself, unless the OP speaks fluent Thai and has a good knowledge of the law.

[Chonburiram]

DOn't be too pesimistic. Sounds like your insurance company (who will DOUBTLESS have retained counsel) have advised you along the way and you have played along nicely.

Good luck mate. THink positive.

Agree. But DO get a very good lawyer and do ensure that he talks to the insurance co's lawyer, so they both sing the same song.

If you PM me (and DO send me your own e-mail address please) I can strongly recommend a Bkk based lawyer (Thai of course) who has a full time American interpreter.

You may know that Embassies and Consuls are not allowed to RECOMMEND lawyers, but shall I just say that many foreigners with troubles here are pointed in the direction of this particular legal firm.

Don't believe him!!!

[NADTATIDA1]

G54 read the last part of my post again,we are not "allowed momentary lapses of concentration"

cases of careless or inconsiderate driving which arise from momentary inattention.

It is being recommended that the last of these categories ( i.e. momentary lapse cases) should be sentenced by way of community penalties e.g. tagging, community service etc whereas the first categories should have starting points of custody periods ranging from 26 weeks to 2 years imprisonment when sentencing is being considered.

Edited March 30, 2010 by NADTATIDA1

[sharecropper]

Harry, My uncle in law (thai) was just involved in a fatal mva. Hearing the circumstances to the accident, I don't feel he was responsible, but the Police laid blame with him. Like with yourself, his insurer settled with the family involved for the tune of 100k & he then entered into negotiations with the family for 50,000 baht, plus his wife had already made arrangements for and paid for the transfer of the deceased body and the needles required to preserve the body. After that the Police then lurked around for some settlement (Im not privy to) and that was the end of the matter.

These figures are about right in these unfortunate circumstances. The OPs figures are extremely high had it been a Thai on Thai accident, but maybe these are Farang prices - but still better than jail time, which he should avoid with the civil settlement.

And definitely pay a police backhander. Or if it has already gone to the prosecutor's office, get a well-connected lawyer to start negotiating with them to do the usual.

Edited March 30, 2010 by sharecropper

[BigWheelMan]

Quite honestly, this being Thailand and a Farang being the cause of a fatal accident, means that the OP is owned.

Same thing happened to a friend in Bangkok and he received a fine of 400000 baht and a 5 year prison sentance.

I know that many Farangs consider Thailand as a free and easy place and believe they can take more liberties or not use as much care and consideration than they would in their own countries. But that’s fine until the worst happens, then they are up shit creek.

I have an American friend here in Chiang Mai who regularly drinks and drives, I, myself was almost hit on my motorbike by a Farang in his pickup and when I shouted at him, he responded by shouting back; what’s your problem? And then drove off like a bat out of hel_l.

The facts are that the police, the deceased’s family and the prosecutors now own the OP. If it is, I wont say proven because this is Thailand, considered that the accident was the OPs fault, then it`s either going to cost him a Kings ransom or he is going to be heavily fined, serve a long prison sentence or both.

However which way this goes, the OP is finished here in Thailand.

My sympathies and condolences go out to the tragic victim of this accident and his family.

Edited March 30, 2010 by BigWheelMan

[Johnniey]

My Brother-in law killed a motorcyclist and went to court - he was ordered to pay 50,000 baht to the deceased's family. It was my relative's fault.

Why did you pay 300,000 baht?

[popeye33]

Maybe the police have had there cut out of the money paid to the family......for a life it is peanuts but of course life seems to be cheap here. good luck and be careful with any lawyers here they are all in cahoots with the old bill anyway.

You are lucky really because anywhere else and i think you could of being doing time inside.

650,000 baht paid to family.

who said life here is cheap!

[BigWheelMan]

My Brother-in law killed a motorcyclist and went to court - he was ordered to pay 50,000 baht to the deceased's family. It was my relative's fault.

Why did you pay 300,000 baht?

This maybe because in Thailand, the police can arrest someone and hold them in jail until the case goes to court.

Usually the arrested person is given the chance to pay an under the counter fee to the police so as to keep them out of jail until the court case.

I know of cases where people have been held in police custody, arrested but not charged, for over 3 years awaiting the court appearance.

My daughter travels to work every day on her motorbike and so called drivers like the OP are a continued worry to me.

Sorry to have to say this, but if it was any of my family or people close to me that was a victim of a fatal accident or seriously injuried by a negligent driver, then I would want the book thrown at that driver.

My thoughts are with the tragic victim, not the OP.

Edited March 30, 2010 by BigWheelMan

[Chonburiram]

So called parents,

who let their daughter " Travel " daily on a motorbike, knowing how dangerous it is, should not wonder when something happens...

The topic starter does not sound very happy, why you would " Throw the book on him"? Do you believe in punishment?

[onnut]

The victim is dead! My thoughts are with the OP! too many times I have had bike riders riding around as if they are on Yaba and think they own the roads cut me up and pull out in front of me without looking. This one was probably speeding and if he rode in a carefull manner could maybe have swerved or stopped altogether.

The OP made a mistake by pulling out. He was not drunk nor on drugs so it was an accident.

Like I said before to the OP. Get a connected guy to speak to the police! It will be better for him. And he will not do time I'm sure.

And as for the father allowing his daugter to ride a bike to work, buy her a car or drive her there yourself. No way are my kids having a bike in Thailand.

[bankha]

Hello,

I had the same kind of accident in Ratchaburi, someone died. The

[bankha]

Hello,

I had the same kind of accident in Ratchaburi, I had the police take my passport from me and i was not allowed to go nowhere. I had my fingerprints took 5 times and photo 3 times, i had to pay the police 40,000 baht to get my passport back and the family 60,000 baht but you will still have to go to court 3 times. The first is to set a bail fee and the police will go with you. The second is to set a court date no police and then the third the court day. YOU WILL BE PUT IN SHACKLES AND IN A HOLDING CELL. But dont worry like i did i was pooing my self. Have cash with you ready for the fine what wont exceed 40,000 baht but dont take it in holding cell with you. Also you do need a English Translator while you are in court.

If need more help PM me and i can send you court statements. So will understand it.

Paul

[seaneee]

Hello,

I had the same kind of accident in Ratchaburi, I had the police take my passport from me and i was not allowed to go nowhere. I had my fingerprints took 5 times and photo 3 times, i had to pay the police 40,000 baht to get my passport back and the family 60,000 baht but you will still have to go to court 3 times. The first is to set a bail fee and the police will go with you. The second is to set a court date no police and then the third the court day. YOU WILL BE PUT IN SHACKLES AND IN A HOLDING CELL. But dont worry like i did i was pooing my self. Have cash with you ready for the fine what wont exceed 40,000 baht but dont take it in holding cell with you. Also you do need a English Translator while you are in court.

If need more help PM me and i can send you court statements. So will understand it.

Paul

This is the only reply so far that is on the money. Yes you will have to go to court, even after paying up, but the money that has been coughed up will already have been divied between victims family, police, and some kept back for the judge on the day of the case. Dont worry, it will all be sorted within a few months. You should take a sensible upstanding Thai person with you to all meetings though.

[Soutpeel]

You might even face Jail time in your home country.

Why pray tell ?..

[craigt3365]

You might even face Jail time in your home country.

Why pray tell ?..

I doubt he would face problems in his home country. But, if the accident happened there, it would be much worse than here. Jail for sure and a lot more money changing hands...just not into the police's hands!

[ChiangMaiFun]

Sounds like bad luck - best wishes with it - it could happen to any of us... sounds like you have done everyhting you can - including involving your embassy I hope - good luck

[BigWheelMan]

DOn't be too pesimistic. Sounds like your insurance company (who will DOUBTLESS have retained counsel) have advised you along the way and you have played along nicely.

Good luck mate. THink positive.

Agree. But DO get a very good lawyer and do ensure that he talks to the insurance co's lawyer, so they both sing the same song.

If you PM me (and DO send me your own e-mail address please) I can strongly recommend a Bkk based lawyer (Thai of course) who has a full time American interpreter.

You may know that Embassies and Consuls are not allowed to RECOMMEND lawyers, but shall I just say that many foreigners with troubles here are pointed in the direction of this particular legal firm.

Most Thai lawyers are going to tell the OP that he will suffer a fate worse than death unless he gives the lawyer a shit load of money.

The lawyers, police, prosecutors, translators are all in it together. They’re objective is to grab as much from the OP as possible while he is vulnerable and scared.

They will tell the OP that these payments are necessary to make the case run smoothly otherwise it`s going to be even more hel_l for him.

This will not influence the outcome when the case goes to court.

They will continue to harass and pester the OP with more threats and tales of doom and destruction until the old bank account is zero balance.

Remember that the authorties in Thailand have draconian powers, fall into their hands and you’re owned.

To the victim of the road death, R.I.P.

[lannarebirth]

A good lawyer in Thailand is no different than a good lawyer anywhere else. A good lawyer will have talked to the judge directly or through channels prior to going into court. A good lawyer will know what is going to happen in the courtroom prior to you walking into it. Get a good lawyer.

[Donnyboy]

best of luck & keep us posted on the outcome

[negreanu]

A good lawyer in Thailand is no different than a good lawyer anywhere else. A good lawyer will have talked to the judge directly or through channels prior to going into court. A good lawyer will know what is going to happen in the courtroom prior to you walking into it. Get a good lawyer.

I see it mentioned many times on Thaivisa. Get a good lawyer. Make sure you lawyer is good. But who are the best lawyers in Thailand? wheres the recommendations?

[dobadoy]

Most Thai lawyers are going to tell the OP that he will suffer a fate worse than death unless he gives the lawyer a shit load of money.

The lawyers, police, prosecutors, translators are all in it together. They're objective is to grab as much from the OP as possible while he is vulnerable and scared.

They will tell the OP that these payments are necessary to make the case run smoothly otherwise it`s going to be even more hel_l for him.

This will not influence the outcome when the case goes to court.

They will continue to harass and pester the OP with more threats and tales of doom and destruction until the old bank account is zero balance.

Remember that the authorties in Thailand have draconian powers, fall into their hands and you're owned.

To the victim of the road death, R.I.P.

Really? I've been fortunate and never had a run with the law. The only time I engaged a lawyer once was to try and get back money on a 'gone bad' condo deal (my own naive fault, classic newbie error back in the day...). The lawyer was pretty incompetent, even though a friend of a friend who had a friend who was a judge said it was a simple case for me to win. Anyway, it dragged on for six months, I got nothing, and the lawyer - after who knows how many consultations, phone calls and letter writing, only asked me for 1000 baht for his trouble (and wasting my time).

Doesn't seem to fit the profile you give above, but then I've only met one (admittedly useless!) lawyer, not 'most' as you have.

Edited March 31, 2010 by dobadoy

[BigWheelMan]

Really? I've been fortunate and never had a run with the law. The only time I engaged a lawyer once was to try and get back money on a 'gone bad' condo deal (my own naive fault, classic newbie error back in the day...). The lawyer was pretty incompetent, even though a friend of a friend who had a friend who was a judge said it was a simple case for me to win. Anyway, it dragged on for six months, I got nothing, and the lawyer - after who knows how many consultations, phone calls and letter writing, only asked me for 1000 baht for his trouble (and wasting my time).

Doesn't seem to fit the profile you give above, but then I've only met one (admittedly useless!) lawyer, not 'most' as you have.

You are confusing facts between a civil and a criminal case.

Being in a dispute over a condo doesn`t involve having a jail sentence hanging over you.

This is Thailand and we are foreigners living here.

For us living in Thailand, it`s not, as in Rome do what the Romans do or if it`s OK for him, than it`s OK for me.

The simple fact is, get onto the wrong side of the law and you’re owned. Since living here I am always aware of this and extremely cautious whatever I do and wherever I go. Never do anything that leaves you vulnerable to the so-called legal system and when driving, drive safely, legally and be on alert.

Too late now for the OP, but this experience may serve as a warning to others and of course most importantly help reduce the amount of carnage on the roads.

I believe I am speaking common sense here and for those who blow this out as a bunch of crap, should keep in mind, you could be next.

Edited March 31, 2010 by BigWheelMan