Red-Shirt Group Seeks Foreign Support

[givenall]

He [Jatuporn] also warned if the military presence remains in Bangkok, more violence will break out and the capital will end up in the same way as the insurgency-ridden southern provinces.

So all the bombs that go off after the weekend can be blamed on Jatuporn.

EDIT:

Meanwhile, temporary toilets have been constructed to service red-shirt protesters.

They've been there 2 & 1/2 weeks, and they don't have toilets????

May be they are asking the foreign government for Porto Patty

Get Real. Foreign government couldn’t care less for Thaksin or the Red Shirts

[Publicus]

He [Jatuporn] also warned if the military presence remains in Bangkok, more violence will break out and the capital will end up in the same way as the insurgency-ridden southern provinces.

So all the bombs that go off after the weekend can be blamed on Jatuporn.

EDIT:

Meanwhile, temporary toilets have been constructed to service red-shirt protesters.

They've been there 2 & 1/2 weeks, and they don't have toilets????

May be they are asking the foreign government for Porto Patty

Get Real. Foreign government couldn't care less for Thaksin or the Red Shirts

The thingies that look like Porto Patty units are the cubby work areas for the expert staff of the Red Shirt Ministry of Foreign Affairs (UADDRSMFATS). The new Red Shirt Prime Minister headquarters is the small low building behind the bus stop at Victory Point (UADDRSOPMTS).

(Sorry but hey, last time I wrote acronyms about this stuff I got a 3-day suspension...... )

[Tokay]

Media wars – How to fail at international media relations the UDD way

Never saw that one coming.

[Tokay]

Every day is "April Fools Day in Thailand" so why should that influence talking on 01 April.

[yoshiwara]

Sedition is the incitement of public disorder and rebellion against the government.

If this is what is required to bring about real economic - social - and political change in Thailand then bring it on.

It's looking more and more like a political certainty if the Red Shirt movement doesn't change its tact any time soon.

(Incidentally - I'm not an advocate of any form of violence - political or other - if anyone happened to wonder.)

You explicitly advocate public disorder.

And then you say you don't support violence.

Typical dishonesty from a Thaksin apologist.

[bulmercke]

Sedition is the incitement of public disorder and rebellion against the government.

If this is what is required to bring about real economic - social - and political change in Thailand then bring it on.

It's looking more and more like a political certainty if the Red Shirt movement doesn't change its tact any time soon.

(Incidentally - I'm not an advocate of any form of violence - political or other - if anyone happened to wonder.)

You explicitly advocate public disorder.

And then you say you don't support violence.

Typical dishonesty from a Thaksin apologist.

FACT: The road to democracy in many states/countries has often been accompanied by violent and abrupt events: riots, revolutions, protest movements. insurgencies etc.

FACT: I don't condone violence in any form.

FACT: Although I'm not a proponent of violence in politics - history has proven on numerous occasions that politics and violence sometimes go hand in hand when considering the democratic and social evolvement of a state. Thailand is no exception. But I truly hope it is.

Also - as for Thaksin - I loathe the guy and abhor almost everything he stood for whilst PM. (Tak Bai - Khru See - Supposed War On Drugs)

Hardly a Thaksin apologist.

[Stjohnm]

Do they think foreign governments are stupid enough to support Taksin? Do they not know what diplomacy is about?

Exactly How many countries have expelled or denied him entry now

[LuckyLew]

Do they think foreign governments are stupid enough to support Taksin? Do they not know what diplomacy is about?

Exactly How many countries have expelled or denied him entry now

Just because someone says he is somewhere ...

does not actually mean he/she is there ...

How many countries have expelled or denied him?

Guess that depends on who you listen to ... but

unless I see proof ... I wold not believe it

Then again, I do not care where Tekki is ...

I do not care where he goes ...

I do believe that one day he will get what it

coming to him in a huge way

[Jimi007]

I can name at least four. England, Dubai, Germany and Sweden...

Do they think foreign governments are stupid enough to support Taksin? Do they not know what diplomacy is about?

Exactly How many countries have expelled or denied him entry now

[learningcurveasia]

Having been a member for many years but rarely post, it's becoming difficult to listen to so much shit and NOT respond.

Thaksin is a thief. period.is it not possible to deal with the issue quietly and finally via 7.62 and be done with the bastard?

between 1-10% of the population does not make you right here. 500 baht a day is garbage, and offensive to those that are normal honest working people.

[learningcurveasia]

Having been a member for many years but rarely post, it's becoming difficult to listen to so much shit and NOT respond.

Thaksin is a thief. period.is it not possible to deal with the issue quietly and finally via 7.62 and be done with the bastard?

between 1-10% of the population does not make you right here. 500 baht a day is garbage, and offensive to those that are normal honest working people.

[yoshiwara]

Sedition is the incitement of public disorder and rebellion against the government.

If this is what is required to bring about real economic - social - and political change in Thailand then bring it on.

It's looking more and more like a political certainty if the Red Shirt movement doesn't change its tact any time soon.

(Incidentally - I'm not an advocate of any form of violence - political or other - if anyone happened to wonder.)

You explicitly advocate public disorder.

And then you say you don't support violence.

Typical dishonesty from a Thaksin apologist.

FACT: The road to democracy in many states/countries has often been accompanied by violent and abrupt events: riots, revolutions, protest movements. insurgencies etc.

FACT: I don't condone violence in any form.

FACT: Although I'm not a proponent of violence in politics - history has proven on numerous occasions that politics and violence sometimes go hand in hand when considering the democratic and social evolvement of a state. Thailand is no exception. But I truly hope it is.

Also - as for Thaksin - I loathe the guy and abhor almost everything he stood for whilst PM. (Tak Bai - Khru See - Supposed War On Drugs)

Hardly a Thaksin apologist.

Yes you do.

Read your own words again:

Sedition is the incitement of public disorder and rebellion against the government.

If this is what is required to bring about real economic - social - and political change in Thailand then bring it on.

'Then bring it on' a clear support for violence.

On other threads you constantly yell 'up the reds' so please don't play the innocent.

Edited March 31, 2010 by yoshiwara

[bulmercke]

Sedition is the incitement of public disorder and rebellion against the government.

If this is what is required to bring about real economic - social - and political change in Thailand then bring it on.

It's looking more and more like a political certainty if the Red Shirt movement doesn't change its tact any time soon.

(Incidentally - I'm not an advocate of any form of violence - political or other - if anyone happened to wonder.)

You explicitly advocate public disorder.

And then you say you don't support violence.

Typical dishonesty from a Thaksin apologist.

FACT: The road to democracy in many states/countries has often been accompanied by violent and abrupt events: riots, revolutions, protest movements. insurgencies etc.

FACT: I don't condone violence in any form.

FACT: Although I'm not a proponent of violence in politics - history has proven on numerous occasions that politics and violence sometimes go hand in hand when considering the democratic and social evolvement of a state. Thailand is no exception. But I truly hope it is.

Also - as for Thaksin - I loathe the guy and abhor almost everything he stood for whilst PM. (Tak Bai - Khru See - Supposed War On Drugs)

Hardly a Thaksin apologist.

Yes you do.

Read your own words again:

Sedition is the incitement of public disorder and rebellion against the government.

If this is what is required to bring about real economic - social - and political change in Thailand then bring it on.

'Then bring it on' a clear support for violence.

On other threads you constantly yell 'up the reds' so please don't play the innocent.

Whether there's violence this Saturday or some other time in the future - one thing's an almost certainty - sooner or later it's goin' to happen. That's a personal prediction. And I've heard similar sentiments mooted by many other foreigners resident in Thailand in recent years.

Yes - I do support the Reds but having said that I detest Thaksin. The best thing they could do would be to jetison him and move forward without him on the truly altruist aims that the Red-Shirts have for the ordinary decent disadvantaged people of this country.

Again - I don't condone any form of violence - but what will be - will be. It may be a subtle condradiction - but I'm sure you'll get my point.

In short - I really can't see how this country can move forward at this moment in time without some extra-ordinary event taking place. Maybe this Saturday will provide the answers.

Come On You Reds!

[ozzieman05]

Taskin wants a Red shirt Government

now we know many of them have a criminal past

But what about trust

One Red shirt leader promised to turn himself into the Police today to satisfy an arrest warrant

I am waiting waiting waiting

Now we will see if he can be trusted to keep his word

and if the other 2 a law abiding a make sure he does

I hope tis is the final test of their (what do they call it) Sincerity

[gregb]

Whether there's violence this Saturday or some other time in the future - one thing's an almost certainty - sooner or later it's goin' to happen. That's a personal prediction. And I've heard similar sentiments mooted by many other foreigners resident in Thailand in recent years.

Yes - I do support the Reds but having said that I detest Thaksin. The best thing they could do would be to jetison him and move forward without him on the truly altruist aims that the Red-Shirts have for the ordinary decent disadvantaged people of this country.

Again - I don't condone any form of violence - but what will be - will be. It may be a subtle condradiction - but I'm sure you'll get my point.

In short - I really can't see how this country can move forward at this moment in time without some extra-ordinary event taking place. Maybe this Saturday will provide the answers.

Come On You Reds!

Your position is a non sequitur. It is logically inconsistent. You can not support the reds and not simultaneously support Thaksin. They are one in the same. What you may be trying to rationalise is that you empathise with the rural Thai population, but you have invoked a psychological mechanism known as cognitive dissonance to justify your inherently irrational position.

Thaksin was a brutal dictator who ruthlessly suppressed the civil liberties of millions of Thais. The red shirts will bring him back. Therefore, if you support the reds it means you support the oppression of the Thai people. Support for the reds is support for injustice and continued tyranny. You can not pick and choose specific aspects of reality that you want to believe and disregard the things you find inconvenient.

You are a Thaksin apologist whether you wish to admit that to yourself or not.

I suggest if you do not wish to further persecute your fellow Thais and resident expats that your position would be better served by denouncing the reds and trying to get those around you to denounce them as well. Unless and until they denounce Thaksin vocally and continuously, they can not be tolerated or justified in any form. Everyone sympathises with the injustices they have endured, however that does not give them the right to ignore the injustices their leader has inflicted on others.

By supporting the reds, you treat the rest of us who were brutalised by Thaksin with contempt.

Edited March 31, 2010 by gregb

[khunjamespittman]

Sedition is the incitement of public disorder and rebellion against the government.

If this is what is required to bring about real economic - social - and political change in Thailand then bring it on.

It's looking more and more like a political certainty if the Red Shirt movement doesn't change its tact any time soon.

(Incidentally - I'm not an advocate of any form of violence - political or other - if anyone happened to wonder.)

Sure sounds like it... You dont happen to be a Red Shirt Spin Doctor do you?

Wolfie, I wonder why you can't post without calling people names. If would be far more prodcutive if you could contribute factual information. A civil conversation sans name calling might be helpful in cooling the rhetoric.

[kmj]

I'm starting to like the Reds as they p1ss off so many sad old b@stards on TV

[Chaimai]

You can not support the reds and not simultaneously support Thaksin.

Therefore, if you support the reds it means you support the oppression of the Thai people.

Support for the reds is support for injustice and continued tyranny. You can not pick and choose specific aspects of reality that you want to believe and disregard the things you find inconvenient.

Intransigence personified.

Of course you can support (some of the principles of) the reds without joining the Thaksin fan club.

That governments need to do more for 'the rural poor' is not in doubt. Aspects of reality can evolve over time to give a better balance for all concerned.

It is a 'free world' and I choose to detest Thaksin (and many things he stood for) with a passion. Equally, I want to see improved representation, education, development of those in Thailand who may feel disenfranchised.

DO NOT try and tell me that I cannot do this.

[anotherpeter]

You can not support the reds and not simultaneously support Thaksin.

Therefore, if you support the reds it means you support the oppression of the Thai people.

Support for the reds is support for injustice and continued tyranny. You can not pick and choose specific aspects of reality that you want to believe and disregard the things you find inconvenient.

Intransigence personified.

Of course you can support (some of the principles of) the reds without joining the Thaksin fan club.

That governments need to do more for 'the rural poor' is not in doubt. Aspects of reality can evolve over time to give a better balance for all concerned.

It is a 'free world' and I choose to detest Thaksin (and many things he stood for) with a passion. Equally, I want to see improved representation, education, development of those in Thailand who may feel disenfranchised.

DO NOT try and tell me that I cannot do this.

The problem is, by supporting the reds, you ARE supporting Thaksin.

Because if the reds get what they want, then Thaksin will get what he wants.

I don't disagree with some of the things that the reds are about. But I can't support them, because I don't support Thaksin.

[Old Man River]

Do they think foreign governments are stupid enough to support Taksin? Do they not know what diplomacy is about?

Actually, do you really think foreign governments even care? They only care when there is a specific reason important to them to care. Other than that, they couldn't care less about the political problems in Thailand.

[MellowYellow]

You can not support the reds and not simultaneously support Thaksin.

Therefore, if you support the reds it means you support the oppression of the Thai people.

Support for the reds is support for injustice and continued tyranny. You can not pick and choose specific aspects of reality that you want to believe and disregard the things you find inconvenient.

Intransigence personified.

Of course you can support (some of the principles of) the reds without joining the Thaksin fan club.

That governments need to do more for 'the rural poor' is not in doubt. Aspects of reality can evolve over time to give a better balance for all concerned.

It is a 'free world' and I choose to detest Thaksin (and many things he stood for) with a passion. Equally, I want to see improved representation, education, development of those in Thailand who may feel disenfranchised.

DO NOT try and tell me that I cannot do this.

I'm glad to see someone else take this on before me.

I am a bit saddened to see it not embraced by the groupthinkers though as it is so easy to defeat logicly.

I don't think gregb is going to be to happy with the natural conclusion of his logic train.

[Tod Daniels]

It would appear the fire-brand red shirt mouth-piece Jatuporn Prompan is talking out of his back-side more than a little bit in some of his statements.

A quick call to the FCCT was met with the emphatic answer that NO representative from the red shirt's has yet to contact them, to as Jatuporn says, 'hold a press conference at the Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand to raise their awareness on the campaign of the red-shirt people.'

Anyone can subscribe to the FCCT bulletins which are emailed out weekly and more if there is a newly scheduled event. NOTHING...

The mind wobbles that a red shirt would say this without first contacting the place he alleges the up-coming press conference will be. .

Edited April 1, 2010 by tod-daniels

[gregb]

You can not support the reds and not simultaneously support Thaksin.

Therefore, if you support the reds it means you support the oppression of the Thai people.

Support for the reds is support for injustice and continued tyranny. You can not pick and choose specific aspects of reality that you want to believe and disregard the things you find inconvenient.

Intransigence personified.

Of course you can support (some of the principles of) the reds without joining the Thaksin fan club.

That governments need to do more for 'the rural poor' is not in doubt. Aspects of reality can evolve over time to give a better balance for all concerned.

It is a 'free world' and I choose to detest Thaksin (and many things he stood for) with a passion. Equally, I want to see improved representation, education, development of those in Thailand who may feel disenfranchised.

DO NOT try and tell me that I cannot do this.

I am not telling you that you can not do this. You clearly are. I am telling you that your position is an inherent contradiction and you are engaging in a psychological condition known as cognitive dissonance.

I am also telling you that by doing so you are treating all of us who have been brutalised by Thaksin with contempt.

Your further refusal to consider the ramifications of your actions because you WISH to continue in your inconsistency does not bode well for arriving at a peaceful conclusion.

[frodo]

It would appear the fire-brand red shirt mouth-piece Jatuporn Prompan is talking out of his back-side more than a little bit in some of his statements.

A quick call to the FCCT was met with the emphatic answer that NO representative from the red shirt's has yet to contact them, to as Jatuporn says, 'hold a press conference at the Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand to raise their awareness on the campaign of the red-shirt people.'

Anyone can subscribe to the FCCT bulletins which are emailed out weekly and more if there is a newly scheduled event. NOTHING...

The mind wobbles that a red shirt would say this without first contacting the place he alleges the up-coming press conference will be. .

Jatuporn will do what Jatuporn does best. He'll make wild allegations that the FCCT is controlled by the military and that they were refused when politely asked for a meeting. From there he'll threaten the FCCT from here on out.

It is highly shameful that he would make such claims. Once a liar, always a liar. He should have listened to his mother.

[Insight]

Being paid to support these morons is an excuse.

How good an excuse is up for debate, but it is an excuse their "supporters" can use.

[anotherpeter]

You can not support the reds and not simultaneously support Thaksin.

Therefore, if you support the reds it means you support the oppression of the Thai people.

Support for the reds is support for injustice and continued tyranny. You can not pick and choose specific aspects of reality that you want to believe and disregard the things you find inconvenient.

Intransigence personified.

Of course you can support (some of the principles of) the reds without joining the Thaksin fan club.

That governments need to do more for 'the rural poor' is not in doubt. Aspects of reality can evolve over time to give a better balance for all concerned.

It is a 'free world' and I choose to detest Thaksin (and many things he stood for) with a passion. Equally, I want to see improved representation, education, development of those in Thailand who may feel disenfranchised.

DO NOT try and tell me that I cannot do this.

I'm glad to see someone else take this on before me.

I am a bit saddened to see it not embraced by the groupthinkers though as it is so easy to defeat logicly.

I don't think gregb is going to be to happy with the natural conclusion of his logic train.

I think the point that greg makes ... and certainly the point that I try and make ... is that by supporting the reds, you are supporting Thaksin.

By this I mean, if everyone who supported the poor and supported some of the things that the reds wanted got out on the street and protested against this government, then I believe the government would be in serious trouble. If the reds got a dissolution then, and won an election (based on their support for the poor), then the first thing that would happen would be that Thaksin would be exonerated and would be back here leading the country.

You can support some of the principles of the reds, without getting out and supporting the reds. Because you can do something about these things without the reds.

But you can not "support the reds and not support Thaksin". Because as soon as the reds get what they want, then Thaksin gets what he wants.

[rixalex]

Equally, I want to see improved representation, education, development of those in Thailand who may feel disenfranchised.

Are there some people that don't? Seems like you are simply stating what all reasonable Thai people wish for.

The reds have us believe that only they care for these issues. That's not so, and nor is it so that to care one has to join arms with the red movement, which has one goal at its core. That goal, if achieved, will only take us further away from "improved representation, education, development of those in Thailand who may feel disenfranchised".

[jdinasia]

As long as Thaksin is the LEADER of the reds (as his daily phone-ins show) and the primary financier it is impossible to separate the movement from the fact that exonerating a criminal is part and parcel with the red shirt goals.

That of course does not mean that people can't be sympathetic to people in Thailand dealing with poverty and poor education and this is NOT limited to farmers in Isaan and the North. It does mean that supporting the Red shirt movement is supporting Thaksin.

If the folks wearing Red shirts want credibility, particularly internationally, they must get rid of Thaksin and get rid of leadership that is beholding to Thaksin.

[rixalex]

You can support some of the principles of the reds, without getting out and supporting the reds.

Indeed. The reds don't own these principles.

You don't need to be a Christian or go to church every Sunday to believe that stealing from your neighbour is a bad thing.

[scorecard]

You can not support the reds and not simultaneously support Thaksin.

Therefore, if you support the reds it means you support the oppression of the Thai people.

Support for the reds is support for injustice and continued tyranny. You can not pick and choose specific aspects of reality that you want to believe and disregard the things you find inconvenient.

Intransigence personified.

Of course you can support (some of the principles of) the reds without joining the Thaksin fan club.

That governments need to do more for 'the rural poor' is not in doubt. Aspects of reality can evolve over time to give a better balance for all concerned.

It is a 'free world' and I choose to detest Thaksin (and many things he stood for) with a passion. Equally, I want to see improved representation, education, development of those in Thailand who may feel disenfranchised.

DO NOT try and tell me that I cannot do this.

I am not telling you that you can not do this. You clearly are. I am telling you that your position is an inherent contradiction and you are engaging in a psychological condition known as cognitive dissonance.

I am also telling you that by doing so you are treating all of us who have been brutalised by Thaksin with contempt.

Your further refusal to consider the ramifications of your actions because you WISH to continue in your inconsistency does not bode well for arriving at a peaceful conclusion.

Well I have advanced knowledge of human behavior and I lecture advanced students (including Ph.D. candidates) in some aspects of behavior.

Would you like to explain rationally and in depth what you mean by 'cognitive dissonance' and why, rationale, you are currently using this term

And would like to expand your meaning for - "I am also telling you that by doing so you are treating all of us who have been brutalised by Thaksin with contempt." And please share some specific details / examples of what you mean by 'brutalized by thaksin'.

- "Your further refusal to consider the ramifications of your actions because you WISH to continue in your inconsistency does not bode well for arriving at a peaceful conclusion."

Thanks.

- Inherent what you mean achand I cannot begin

Edited April 1, 2010 by scorecard