Mekong Power Plan Will Affect Millions Of Lives : Activists

[RickBradford]

More double-think from the Communist Party of Vietnam -- despite the fact that they support dam building since they buy the electricity created (70% of Sambor Dam's projected output), they attack them in print, and predictably attack China in particular. Equally predictably, they shy away from making the comments directly themselves, instead getting one of their special friends to deliver the quotes.

"Upstream and lower dams could render the Mekong Delta unviable, and China’s intransigence in building them and refusing to share information about their operations will negatively impact the lives of more than 60 million people.

“China has plans to construct up to eight dams in total, some sources say the number could rise to fourteen. It is clear already that Chinese dam construction is having a negative impact on downstream states,” Professor Carlyle Thayer of the Australian Defense Force Academy told Thanh Nien Weekly.

“The ecology of the river system downstream has had wide-ranging effects. Dams prevent the downward flow of alluvium which fertilizes the Mekong Delta in Vietnam. Dam construction interferes with the migration of spawning fish. The impact on fisheries reduces the amount of fish and therefore protein that feeds the people in the Lower Mekong,” he said.

As has been pointed out, with this kind of thinking to the fore, what chance does the river stand?

[Tejas]

...you denied it was the Stimson source in the link I provided

Because it wasn't the Stimson source in the link you provided.

It was a completely different Stimson source, and I didn't want you to be confused (but I didn't succeed, it seems)

The only person that is confused is you, RickBradford.

Why do you have to be so confrontational........constantly provoking anger.

LaoPo asked you a simple question......he was asking for a specific link to the article you talked about (that is what he means by "source"), apparently published by the Stimson Center.

For some reason you can't provide the link and can only throw insults around about "adult learning centers."

That is a semi-clever but transparent way of saying LaoPo is stupid..........a very rude and insulting thing to say.

I can assure you LaoPo is one of the most intelligent posters on ThaiVisa. Many others will tell you the same.

Earlier you tried to be "productive" by starting our conversation out with using the word "bullshit" to describe what I wrote, with nothing to refute what I said.

And I was not even talking with you at the time............I was talking to LaoPo.

IMHO, you need to adjust your way of thinking and approaching others on ThaiVisa.

If you want to have a productive, civil, and intelligent conversation, try adopting those characteristics in future posts.

[LaoPo]

More double-think from the Communist Party of Vietnam -- despite the fact that they support dam building since they buy the electricity created (70% of Sambor Dam's projected output), they attack them in print, and predictably attack China in particular. Equally predictably, they shy away from making the comments directly themselves, instead getting one of their special friends to deliver the quotes.

"Upstream and lower dams could render the Mekong Delta unviable, and China’s intransigence in building them and refusing to share information about their operations will negatively impact the lives of more than 60 million people.

“China has plans to construct up to eight dams in total, some sources say the number could rise to fourteen. It is clear already that Chinese dam construction is having a negative impact on downstream states,” Professor Carlyle Thayer of the Australian Defense Force Academy told Thanh Nien Weekly.

“The ecology of the river system downstream has had wide-ranging effects. Dams prevent the downward flow of alluvium which fertilizes the Mekong Delta in Vietnam. Dam construction interferes with the migration of spawning fish. The impact on fisheries reduces the amount of fish and therefore protein that feeds the people in the Lower Mekong,” he said.

As has been pointed out, with this kind of thinking to the fore, what chance does the river stand?

You do it again: quoting from a source without giving a link; it's considered very impolite RickBradford !

and:

Professor Carlyle Thayer of the Australian Defense Force Academy...told Thanh Nien Weekly ? What kind of specialist is he?

I would love to see comments from him when he speaks to the MRC and not to some weekly in Vietnam, where the mouth/delta of the Mekong is.

Apart from that why don't you start studying the website of the only professional institute in the area, the MRC* - The Mekong River Commission ?

There is a lot of blah-blah around on the internet and hundreds of specialists from where ever but the MRC is the best informed institute since it is focused exclusively on the Mekong and the 6 countries involved.

It's also strange that I constantly have to read rubbish from sources and countries talking about dams in other countries than Thailand...what about the plans for building so many dams in Thailand next to the existing ones ?

Not a single word about those.

* http://www.mrcmekong.org/ The Mekong River Commission

LaoPo

[RickBradford]

Professor Carlyle Thayer of the Australian Defense Force Academy...told Thanh Nien Weekly ? What kind of specialist is he?

I would love to see comments from him when he speaks to the MRC and not to some weekly in Vietnam, where the mouth/delta of the Mekong is.

You missed my point.

I am not touting Carl Thayer as an expert on the Mekong -- quite the opposite. He is a long-time crony and mouthpiece of the Vietnamese regime.

As you might have deduced from the start of my post:

More double-think from the Communist Party of Vietnam -- despite the fact that they support dam building since they buy the electricity created (70% of Sambor Dam's projected output), they attack them in print, and predictably attack China in particular

... I was lending support to a well-considered earlier post, which stated that nothing is likely to improve regarding the Mekong as long as the authorities who control it along its length are generally self-serving, sometimes incompetent and frequently corrupt.

In other words, here is the official Vietnamese press criticising the building of Mekong dams, conveniently forgetting that Vietnam already takes several gigawatts of hydropower electricity from Laos and shortly plans to take a lot more, from Cambodia.

Nothing in there to get your undies in a bunch about, surely?

[brahmburgers]

More double-think from the Communist Party of Vietnam -- despite the fact that they support dam building since they buy the electricity created (70% of Sambor Dam's projected output), they attack them in print, and predictably attack China in particular. Equally predictably, they shy away from making the comments directly themselves, instead getting one of their special friends to deliver the quotes.

"Upstream and lower dams could render the Mekong Delta unviable, and China’s intransigence in building them and refusing to share information about their operations will negatively impact the lives of more than 60 million people.

“China has plans to construct up to eight dams in total, some sources say the number could rise to fourteen. It is clear already that Chinese dam construction is having a negative impact on downstream states,” Professor Carlyle Thayer of the Australian Defense Force Academy told Thanh Nien Weekly.

“The ecology of the river system downstream has had wide-ranging effects. Dams prevent the downward flow of alluvium which fertilizes the Mekong Delta in Vietnam. Dam construction interferes with the migration of spawning fish. The impact on fisheries reduces the amount of fish and therefore protein that feeds the people in the Lower Mekong,” he said.

As has been pointed out, with this kind of thinking to the fore, what chance does the river stand?

I read the same quote from the Australian, and I see it differently. It makes sense to me, regardless of whether Vietnam gets hydro from the Mekong. Vietnam is sensibly concerned for the tens of millions who rely on the waters in the delta for their survival. Similarly, the Cambodians are likely quite concerned about Tonle Sap Lake, and Thais are similarly concerned about the viability of their resources which relate to the

Mekong.

So happens the Chinese have the strongest economy and therefore the best ability to build as many large dams as they want upstream. Plus, the Chinese have shown a paucity of concern for environmental factors, particularly if there's a choice between saving plants or animals or wilderness vs developing resources. People concerns always trump any concerns for taking care of the environment. If there was a Chinese John Muir, he would have been stiffled, killed or jailed at his first public mention of preserving natural habitat.

[RickBradford]

Vietnam is sensibly concerned for the tens of millions who rely on the waters in the delta for their survival

I am extremely skeptical of the bona fides of the Vietnamese regime, based on long and close dealings with them.

The electricity they take from the Mekong will go to support the growth of industry, primarily in the HCMC-Bien Hoa-Vung Tau Economic Zone. If the trade-off is more industry, in exchange for less agriculture and livability in the Mekong Delta, I don't think they will hesitate for a second before accepting. After all, exporting machinery is much more lucrative than exporting rice.

Furthermore, many of the inhabitants of the Delta are ethnic Khmer, whom the Vietnamese authorities despise, so making their lives more miserable doesn't matter much.

As an added bonus, the Vietnamese can then claim that the Delta has been destroyed by "global warming" (they have already made noises along these lines) rather than by reduced water flow caused by dams, and then claim hundreds of billions of dollars from gullible Western governments in compensation.

Again, the main loser is the river, its creatures, and the people whose lives directly depend on it.

Edited April 18, 2010 by RickBradford

[LaoPo]

So happens the Chinese have the strongest economy and therefore the best ability to build as many large dams as they want upstream. Plus, the Chinese have shown a paucity of concern for environmental factors, particularly if there's a choice between saving plants or animals or wilderness vs developing resources. People concerns always trump any concerns for taking care of the environment. If there was a Chinese John Muir, he would have been stiffled, killed or jailed at his first public mention of preserving natural habitat.

All my contributions, maps, links and explanations on this topic seem not enough but you keep on blaming the Chinese.

You are forgetting about the thousands of small streams and rivers, feeding the Mekong in the territories of (small!) Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam as last one, as well.

Have a look and maybe you will now understand that it is not a single handed problem caused by China, it's much more than that; after all you have forgotten about the TOTAL water supply and that this supply is coming for the MAJOR part from Thailand and Laos (largest part) and NOT China.

http://www.mrcmekong.org/programmes/wup/WUP-monitoring.htm MEKONG FLOW MONITORING

LaoPo