Turn Off The Lights And Save Electric!

[Estrada]

On 1 June, the prime minister and three deputies prime minister would be invited to preside over a countdown ceremony for the launch of the campaign, to be held at the Government House, he disclosed.

"When the time comes, each building and household will be urged to switch off at least one light for five minutes simultaneously", said the minister.

The ceremony will be broadcast live on Modernine TV of MCOT Public Company Limited (MCOT) and TV Channel 11 of the government's Public Relations Department (PRD).

Prepare for the national power cut 5 mins after this program then from the power surge on the grid when all the lights in Thailand get switched back on

If they all turned of together (Not that they will) a number of power stations would have to be cut from the grid to prevent overload then 5 mins later switched back in

Do they just make all this s... up and not ask anyone higher than a dodgy back street electrician?

Simon.

Estrada: I was working for PowerGen back in the 60's and can remember when the National grid collapsed blacking out a wide area of the UK. Reason being that everyone was watching the Miss World Contest, and as soon as they crowned the Winner, everyone rushed to the Kitchen to switch on the kettle. Can you imagine suddenly 3 Million 3 kW Electrial kettles switched on at the same time. That is 9,000 Megawatts, or the equivalent of 5 of the largest Power Stations in Europe suddenly requiring to be on stream. As a result of that, Power Plants take account of TV schedules when planning to bring generators on line.

Not sure what your dodgy electrican has told you, but leaving a power plant connected to the grid does not overload it, power is taken up as required preferably by the most efficient plant. When the load is cut, the load will be shared out between the varous power plants on line.

Switching an 18W lamp off is symbolic and unlikely to cause much problem. Good job they have not asked the King to request the whole of Thailand to switch off and then on again, all airconditioners exactly at the same instance in time

Edited May 30, 2005 by Estrada

[Beachbunny]

"I heard that a solar power system producing enough to keep a house with lights, refrigerator, some fans and computers going is available for about 100000 baht. After 10 years or so you might need to change the battery.

Doesn't that sound good? No more power cuts! No more bills to pay every month! And it pays itself in less than 10 years.

Not enough for aircon though, but come on, if you want it cold, what are you doing here anyway?"

Oops! did something wrong, not sure who posted the above, but here's my reply:

First off I have to correct my earlier post. I paid under 200,000 baht not around 100,000 baht for my solar system minus batteries. (bought everything in the states)

I seriously doubt there is a solar system available in Thailand for 100,000 baht that would do everything you listed. I have 14 + panels and 3 transformers and it will only be used for washing machine and dryer and my husbands power tools. IF you could find a system to run everything you listed it would definitely cost way more than 100,000 baht. Like I said there's a place on Sukhumvit in Pattaya they are selling 1 panel with the transformer for over 100,000 baht. This might keep you in hot water. Just the deep cycle batteries are $50 or more a pop, thats dollars not baht. Same price or even slightly higher than they are in the states. Not sure the batteries will last for 10 years though. It's several years, but I'd have to double check the length of time they last.

Anyway, having said all that, if there is anyway you can afford to use any type of solar system, use any kind of insulation, or reclaim hot water from A/C I'm all for it. I see a lot of waste here because people don't want to insulate etc. etc. because they say electricity is cheap and it would take a long time to recoup their investment. (my thai friends anyway)

Oh well------------we built double walls, insulated the ceilings, and the walls. I not only want to conserve energy I want a comfortable house. Our wall insulation is burnt rice husks. No, I don't know the R value, but I have cool walls!

Beachbunny

Edited May 30, 2005 by Beachbunny

[cutter007]

I got a couple bids for solar power systems, basically you recoup your costs in 30 - 40 years, long after it has become outdated.

Thailand is a joke about saving energy, they don't care at all about really saving any, its just the politicians blowing there horns.

Solar systems are really expensive here, because not only does the Thai government offer no tax breaks, but most of the stuff is imported and they put heavy import taxes on it.

[Rhys]

Shyy,,, 55555

[BlackJack]

why doesnt the government remove the tax on energy saving devices

why doesnt the government subsidize the purchase of energy saving devices

turning off a light is not a serious effort to reduce the power bill

the converting of cars to gas also needs to be questionned as bio diesel is a cheaper alternative

the recycling of rubbish can also be used as a power saving energy

the beat goes on but no ones listening

[johng]

Of course there is still Nuclear Power and Thailand has a 2 MW plant on Vipawadi Rangsit rd.,

Are you sure about that ???

[yuyi]

"I heard that a solar power system producing enough to keep a house with lights, refrigerator, some fans and computers going is available for about 100000 baht. After 10 years or so you might need to change the battery.

Doesn't that sound good? No more power cuts! No more bills to pay every month! And it pays itself in less than 10 years.

Not enough for aircon though, but come on, if you want it cold, what are you doing here anyway?"

Oops! did something wrong, not sure who posted the above, but here's my reply:

First off I have to correct my earlier post.  I paid under 200,000 baht not around 100,000 baht for my solar system minus batteries. (bought everything in the states)

I seriously doubt there is a solar system available in Thailand for 100,000 baht that would do everything you listed.  I have 14 + panels and 3 transformers and it will only be used for washing machine and dryer and my husbands power tools.  IF you could find a system to run everything you listed it would definitely cost way more than 100,000 baht.  Like I said there's a place on Sukhumvit in Pattaya they are selling 1 panel with the transformer for over 100,000 baht.  This might keep you in hot water.  Just the deep cycle batteries are $50 or more a pop, thats dollars not baht.  Same price or even slightly higher than they are in the states.  Not sure the batteries will last for 10 years though.  It's several years, but I'd have to double check the length of time they last.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did check my source, and this is what I got. This info was given about 3 months ago:

There is a European guy (German or Austrian), who is specialist for many (10+) years in solar power, building up his company with production here, somewhere in Bangkok. (Surely not the shop you mention in Pattaya). This is not just for the Thai market but for export, may be even mainly. And yes, the cost for a system to get solar power for your normal usage (without aircon, probably also without hot water in the bathroom) was given as 100000 baht. DIY installation is possible. It was specifically asked to have enough power to keep your computer, lights, fridge and some fans running all the time. Obviously more than one panel needed.

I will see if I can get more info, or a contact address.

[george]

SAVING ENERGY: TV stations might be forced to close early

Campaign starts tomorrow; bid to cut usage by 10%

BANGKOK: -- A government campaign to reduce energy consumption will kick off tomorrow - and if people don’t cooperate, harsh measures, such as shutting down television stations by midnight, are being promised.

Energy Ministry permanent secretary Cherdpong Siriwit said yesterday his ministry planned to push for mandatory measures, such as earlier closure of TV stations and petrol stations, if the three-month campaign does not have a significant impact.

“If needed, we will propose such measures to the government,” he warned.

Under the campaign, people are encouraged to drive less than 90kph, turn off air-conditioners between midday and 1pm and switch off one light at home for at least five minutes each night.

The campaign’s tangible goal is to cut all power users’ consumption by at least 10 per cent across the country. Should the campaign’s goal be achieved, the country will save about Bt70 billion a year.

“In the face of rising oil prices, we have a serious need to scale down energy consumption or else the country’s economy will suffer from the impacts,” Cherdpong said.

The campaign requires government agencies and state enterprises to reduce their power consumption by at least 10 per cent. Failure to meet this goal will land the heads of these agencies and enterprises in trouble. They may even be removed, they said.

In the private sector, the government reached an agreement with the Thai Chamber of Commerce, the Thai Bankers Association, the Federation of Thai Industries and the Federation of Thai Capital Market Organisations that they would help to reduce power consumption in their industries by at least 15 per cent.

The campaign also aims to win cooperation from the public to cut power consumption in their homes by no less than 10 per cent.

Cherdpong was speaking at an event asking people to sign pledges to save energy.

He said motorists would be able to save a lot of money simply by filling their tanks with gasohol instead of 91 gasoline.

“Gasohol does not have any adverse impact on your vehicles’ engines. Most executives at the Energy Ministry now use gasohol,” he said.

Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand’s deputy governor Kamphui Jirararuensak said power consumption in the country stood at 25,000 megawatts in April, an increase of 7 per cent compared with the corresponding period last year.

“If power consumption continues to rise, the country will have to invest more than Bt55 billion in the construction of new power plants and installation of power cables each year,” he said.

--The Nation 2005-05-31

[Totster]

and if people don’t cooperate, harsh measures, such as shutting down television stations by midnight, are being promised.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's fine.... everyone in my wifes village is in bed by 8pm... me included when I'm there...

totster

[mnoorsapl]

ENERGY / PRICES AND CONSERVATION

`Turn off the lights and save'

Under the campaign, which ends in August, every household will be asked to turn off at least one light at 8:45 pm, to turn off air-conditioners for one hour during lunchtime and limit driving speeds to 90 km/hour.

--The Post 2005-05-28

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Under this campaign?

[Upcountry]

Beachbunny,

Thank you for this interesting insulation suggestion. When we build our own place I the future, I’ll try to make something like this happen (the double wall insulation). It would be interesting to hear of your experience building the house. Up here, far north of Bangkok, we were fortunate to have a builder willing to try a few new things, but it was still hard getting it all done.

What kind of windows did you install? The normal windows we see around here are certainly not a/c friendly. They are designed for the standard brick walls we see here.

For the extension we had added were we are now, we had insulation put under the tile roof, but the way it was placed over the metal frame leaves a lot to be desired. I wish we had had a moisture barrier put in too, but we didn’t realize the need for that in time. Still dealing with leaks, which may or may not be related to the insulation.

In addition to promoting conservation and smart use of energy in driving and light usage, and we’d all be smart to heed the warning, the government ought to promote a new standard of home building that keeps houses cooler and more efficient, without becoming dank or musty with humidity.

Actually, ways to add effeciency to existing homes would be a good thing to promote! People on a budget usually try to save as much as they can when building, going for the basic construction. They pay the price later, expecially with a/c.

[Martin]

On the money, Upcountry! Quote:

"In addition to promoting conservation and smart use of energy in driving and light usage, and we’d all be smart to heed the warning, the government ought to promote a new standard of home building that keeps houses cooler and more efficient, without becoming dank or musty with humidity.

Actually, ways to add effeciency to existing homes would be a good thing to promote! People on a budget usually try to save as much as they can when building, going for the basic construction. They pay the price later, expecially with a/c."

Anything that anybody---especially Government---does to raise awareness of the changing picture of "energy economics" is good. Thaksin's 'campaign' may not be intellectually brilliant, but it has some sensible psychological aspects. If someone switches off the office aircon, others will ask "Hey, what gives?" and then get educated.

My fear is that, if we don't get it publicised and embedded in "common knowledge" in advance, the expected economic downturn resulting from energy costs getting ever higher (rather than the 'ever lower' that we have all got used to over our lifetimes) may cause personal depression, as well as economic recession. And, then, it will turn into economic depression.

We are pretty well placed upcountry to ride roughening economic weather, as most of the folk grow enough rice to feed their families and have some left over to exchange for the other necessities of life. (Usually an interim stage of sell-for-money and then buy-with-money intervenes nowadays, but we can easily go back to the older method of straight barter.) The only problem that I foresee for us upcountry is all the extra folk who will want to join us from the cities (especially the cities of the world that have nastily cold winters).

(As somebody said in another thread, "Marrying my Issaan wife saved me from a life of poverty in Northeast England!!" where the winter heating bill would now absorb the bulk of my otherwise disposable income.)

[stumonster]

“If power consumption continues to rise, the country will have to invest more than Bt55 billion in the construction of new power plants and installation of power cables each year,” he said.

No - better off buying an english soccer club.....

The house I am renting has a section downstairs at the back where the roof heats up the area something chronic when the sun in on it. I have been looking to get some insulation and a thin lamited board screwed up there to keep it cooler. Does anyone know of what types of insulation you can purchase in thailand? I was wondering if anyone made a variety out of coconut husk ( an abundant material here in thailand ) , similar to this this stuff

[Martin]

I was looking for some soft board last week (not for insulation, but for a notice board) in Udon last week and couldn't find any in Global etc. (I ended up buying the usual hard chipboard and covering it with criss-crossed ribbons to hold the photos at their corners.)

If that coconut-husk stuff is available, it would do fine for my requirement, too. I know soft board can be got in Thailand, because I have seen big boards of it on the walls of an International School for displays of pupils' work.

[Upcountry]

I did a quick search on coconut husks, but I couldn't verify whether or not they can be a fire hazard. Corn husks, by themselves are, but if placed between brick walls I guess there's only a small chance that they'd contribute to a fire.

I looked at the link for coconut fibre boards. No indication of fire harard or resisteance.

This thread has me wondering why I haven't thought of adding light-filtering film to the windows. I guess I thought the heavy drapes were enough. But then, I can feel the heat on the inside of the South-facing walls in the late afternoon.

Better to put something on the outside (foil? ), but I suppose fibre boards and sheet rock would provide an insulation layer on the inside.

Another challenge is the roof. The exisiting house where we live has the basic tile roof with nothing but air and dust between them and the hung cieling. It's not practical, from what I gather, to put a layer of insulation under the tiles at this point. They'd have to be attached to the metal roof frame (probably with metal wire as usual).

I suppose another idea would be to put some sort of insulation above each hung ceiling tile, if it can be done without causing problems with the electrical, telephone, cable and internet wiring!

[stumonster]

I did a quick search on coconut husks, but  I couldn't verify whether or not they can be a fire hazard. Corn husks, by themselves are, but if placed between brick walls I guess there's only a small chance that they'd contribute to a fire.

I looked at the link for coconut fibre boards. No indication of fire harard or resisteance.

this was on the page

Combustibility    Conforms to German Standard DIN 4102, B2 classification

here for info on the euro standards - http://www.thetextileguide.com/tgconflam.htm

the coconut has probably been impregnated with some sort of fire retardant

[mouse]

I remember living in California years back when a similar energy savings drive was initiated with much success. Things progressed and the state and Utility PG&E was pushing pushing and pushing the saving of energy. After 6 months Pacific Gas and Electric issued a report that stated that energy savings drive had been so sucessful that they had as a result lost an enourmous amount of revenue. Rates were prompty raised to compensate the compnay and some subsities were provided for by the State of California.

I vowed after that never to help someone else make money to my detriment. The same will happen here, mark my words.

[Hendrikus]

The following site regarding energy consumption etc. may be of interest.

Cheers.

Hendrik

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/BreakingNews.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Buying Oil Stock online now.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According to The Sunday Times - Britain, the slowing down of the Gulf Stream one of the "engines" driving the Gulf Stream has weakened to less than a quarter of its former strength.

Europe thus including the UK would undergo a sharp drop in temperature. The Gulf Stream transports 27,000 time more heat to British shores than all the nation's power supplies. Af course the rest of Europe also would need some additional power supplies.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%...02579%2C00.html

Cheers,

Edited June 1, 2005 by Hendrikus

[Martin]

Jeez. That's all we need. They'll all be wanting to come here!!!

[yuyi]

...

Another challenge is the roof. The exisiting house where we live has the basic tile roof with nothing but air and dust between them and the hung cieling. It's not practical, from what I gather, to put a layer of insulation under the tiles at this point. They'd have to be attached to the metal roof frame (probably with metal wire as usual).

I suppose another idea would be to put some sort of insulation above each hung ceiling tile, if it can be done without causing problems with the electrical, telephone, cable and internet wiring! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have seen a house where the roof is insulated with a special kind of PU foam, about 2 or 3 cm, which got sprayed on the tiles, from the inside. The roof is now rock solid, water tight, and inside cool even in full sunshine. This is what I would do if I ever build a house again.

It was done by a farang owned Thai company named "Lohr trade", they have offices in Pattaya, Pukhet, and somewhere in Isaan, and work in all Thailand, for quite a few years already.

Because it is sprayed it can be applied to old and new houses, as long as there is enough room for the worker to crawl around under the roof.

[davidmmurin]

This is actually good news. It's long overdue if it hasn't been announced before here.

It drives home (no motorcyci pun here ) the point that every little bit helps. We all have a responsibility so save energy, even if we can afford personally to waste it.

Let's face it, if we continue to waste energy by not taking personal responsibility, we will personally be affected by the results, which could range from energy shortages to environmental problems.

At the same time, many lights here in Thailand are flourescent. Isn't usually better to leave a flourescent light on for an hour (or some period of time) than to turn it off and then on again? This advice is best for those who think about leaving lights on at the end of the day, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well the way I think about it is that's everything has it pros and cons. First of all my wife leaves the light on in the carport for security but I wake up during the middle of the night and turn it off so I can take a glimpse of the stars. However, in a village there are so many street lights that one can't see the stars. I live in the country back in Texas and even today there are entirely too many unnecessary lights burning. I look out back of my house and across the valleys and see far too many lights. Use a flashlight or a candle by all means with all these lights it may as well be Christmas. Cut them off is what I say.... sweat a little or take more showers and use more powder. Amen and Pax vobiscum!!!

[Martin]

Thank you, davidmmurin.

Your posting reminded me that the light that my wife leaves on for security (so any 'gang' can see the dogs that will chew off their wedding tackle!) was still on, two hours after sun-up.

There are going to be some difficult decisions for local and national politicians to take. Do you switch off some of the motorway lighting or raise income tax to pay the increasing electricity bill? And do you switch off some of the street lighting (and get howls of "making us vulnerable") or raise local property taxes in order to keep the lighting on?

It is already hard to get decent, competent people to volunteer to serve as Councillors or Members of Parliament, and the sort of unpopularity that comes from one or other section of your neighbours when you make the above decisions makes it harder.

(I am lucky---when I was recently asked if I would be willing to be "phu yai ban", or "village big man", I was able to wriggle out by pointing out that Mr Taksin probably would want a Thai in the position, not a falang!!---I suspect they thought they could bring in a rule subsequently that the phu yai ban should pay for all the village street parties!!!).