Turn Off The Lights And Save Electric!

[Estrada]

I remember these sorts of measures from back in 1997. Offices turned the lights and air-con off at lunchtime. Given how much the office heated up during the heat of the day while the air-con was off and how long it took to cool it, I never thought there was any saving. Does anyone have any idea of the cost saving (or lack thereof) of turning fluro lights off and then back on?

Estrada: Depends on the size of fluorescent each one may be 18Watts, and 1 kw/hr is around B3 so one fluorescent saves 1/50th of B3/hr.

Edited May 28, 2005 by Estrada

[Estrada]

Isn't everyone paying thier own electric usage at the current market-price? And if so...how is the country going to save any money? Maybe loose some in lost tax-revenuy...

Estrada: Nothing to do with this. Problem is with oil fired power stations as these suck in imports. On the other hand Thailand has its own gas. If power can be reduced at peak times, then less oil fired power plants will have to be brought on line to meet demand.EGAT should convert all oil fired Power Plants to Gas to save on imports but this will take time. Also more efficient Power plants can be used at less cost.

Therefore the Country saves and if enough energy is saved, power can be exported to Laos and Vietnam which will also help the trade deficit.

[John Galt]

Does this mean that I should stop charging and using my electric bicycle and get back on my motor bike?

[Martin]

Estrada: I agree that helping to avoid oil-fired plants having to come on/up their generation during peak-demand periods is a sensible way of helping the Thailand balance of payments.

Remembering the days in the 1970s when we first started thinking that it was unwise to keep upping our requirements for energy (especially oil), there was a lot of information made available in UK about the desirability, and respective merits, of loft insulation, double glazing, wall-cavity insulation etc (and stopping cold draughts coming in and warmed air going out).

Can you point us to that sort of information regarding getting more air con cooling for less bahts?

Presumably the Schools of Architecture are looking at the best designs for buildings that will still be up when electricity gets very expensive compared to today. (Doubling every five years means it will be 64 bahts a unit in 2025, from 4 bahts now ---and there don't seem to be many 45-year-olds taking that into consideration in their pension planning.)

[thymode91]

I remember these sorts of measures from back in 1997. Offices turned the lights and air-con off at lunchtime. Given how much the office heated up during the heat of the day while the air-con was off and how long it took to cool it, I never thought there was any saving. Does anyone have any idea of the cost saving (or lack thereof) of turning fluro lights off and then back on?

Estrada: Depends on the size of fluorescent each one may be 18Watts, and 1 kw/hr is around B3 so one fluorescent saves 1/50th of B3/hr.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

we are doing this pratice in our office and production line to turn off the lights during break time (1.5 hour everyday). it seem our company got reward coz the electricity consumption was less than before.

And we change some of the ordinary roof to skylight type (semi transfarent) so that it may help to reduce the bulb to be turn "on" at the day time.

Edited May 28, 2005 by thymode91

[thymode91]

Does this mean that I should stop charging and using my electric bicycle and get back on my motor bike?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

my advice is better to take a walk nor riding bicycle if your distanation is not very far from home at the same time you have exercise and stay healhty. I am walking for 2-2.5 KM every day from home to office. (go and come back)

[John Galt]

Does this mean that I should stop charging and using my electric bicycle and get back on my motor bike?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

my advice is better to take a walk nor riding bicycle if your distanation is not very far from home at the same time you have exercise and stay healhty. I am walking for 2-2.5 KM every day from home to office. (go and come back)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am riding about ten k per day to and from work, mostly peddling but the electric assist sure helps on hills. I am getting all the exercise I need.

[bkk_mike]

This is a country with 217% tax on a Mini, 183% tax on a Jeep Grand Cherokee. 57% tax on a Toyota Fortuner, 23.3% tax on a double-cab pickup, and 10.7% tax on a single cab pickup.

Even small cars built in Thailand attract 74% tax. (imports from outside Asean/Australia get hammered with an 80% import duty, and the tax is then applied to the price including the import duty, which explains why Mini's cost so much here.)

Given those tax rates, it's little wonder there are relatively few small cars on the roads (at least in the eyes of a European), and issues with the amount of petrol and diesel being consumed.

Admittedly, there's 308% tax on a Ferrari which is doing wonders in keeping those gas-guzzlers off the road...

If Thailand genuinely wanted to reduce overall fuel consumption, they'd simply introduce a lower tariff level for smaller engines. Currently, the lowest passenger car tax rate (totalling 74% if built in Thailand. 213% if imported from outside Asean/Oz) applies to anything with an engine size under 2400cc, which isn't a small engine, especially by Japanese or European standards where an engine half that size (or less) is quite common.

How about reducing the excise duty rate on passenger cars with engines under 1500cc to be lower than the duty on 4WD SUVs. The 80% import duty would still be there, so it shouldn't cause a massive increase in imports (at least until the Japan-Thailand FTA comes into effect), and might result in more Jazz's on the streets, and less Fortuners.

Seriously - the tax rates in this country seem to be designed to get people to buy pickups and 4WD SUVs. And the government then turns around and complains about the amount of diesel and gasoline being consumed.

[cmiuc]

Under the campaign, which ends in August, every household will be asked to turn off at least one light at 8:45 pm, to turn off air-conditioners for one hour during lunchtime and limit driving speeds to 90 km/hour.

I don't about any of you, but I don't like a high electric bill... So, conservation is a necessity of life for most people...

Additionally, turning the air con off at lunch? That's when I eat lunch, I come from a non-air con room after teaching all morning... to come and cool down so I can go back and teach again in a hot room... so I guess these comments are for the Thai Elite... But I still think everyone pays for it all... the more electricity/gas you burn the more money it cost you in retail... the more they get to buy more... so kind of confusing.

hahaha 90 km... I dare any Thai to drive like that... And the officers in brown... are not about to get out of their a/c cars, offices and track them down for a small fine(or 100b payoff).

heheehe

[jayenram]

I am assuming that the "turning the a/c off at lunchtime" applies to the office/factory environment as we never use a/c at home during the day. The only time our a/c is turned on is 20 minutes before going to bed and shuts down automatically 3 hours later.

[julie_f]

I have tried having the a/c switch itself off at night but a couple of hours later i wake up in a boiling room.

As for walking to work, i would if there wasn't so much pollution!

[yuyi]

BREAKING NEWS:

Energy crisis solved now:

In order to save energy Thaksin turned off the light at the end of the tunnel!

[lingling]

Idiotic.

There are two major energy wasters in this country:

1) A/Cs in houses and buildings with no insulation in the walls and ceilings, single glass windows etc. Ban that and force anyone who want to have A/Cs to insulate their houses. After a year it will have paid for itself in lower electricity costs.

2) Direct water heaters. There is more than enough heat wasted in the A/C units to replace most of these. The cheapest direct water heater costs more than it would cost to retrofit an A/C unit with a water tank and heat the water with the excess heat from the A/C.

Turning off every light in the country will be like a a drop in the ocean compared to cooling only insulated houses and using the excess heat from A/Cs (or solar heat) to heat water.

[hansco]

I agree with lingling,

I am constantly amazed that Thailand doesn't make use of the free energy available to it, solar energy.

If the government encouraged the use of solar panels to heat water and even produce electricity they would save a fortune.

You would need allot of solar panels to run an Air Conditioner which would mean a huge outlay but you could easily run the whole houses lights 24/7 using a couple of solar panels with battery storage.

When I eventually retire to Thailand I have always planed to install solar panels for both hot water and electricity and even a rain water collection system.

If the government subsidised these sort of things instead of coming up with these crack pot schemes which no one will take notice of and will be forgotten about in a couple of weeks, they might get a bit of respect at least from me anyway.

Simon

Edited May 29, 2005 by hansco

[Artisan]

I agree with lingling,

I am constantly amazed that Thailand doesn't make use of the free energy available to it, solar energy.

If the government encouraged the use of solar panels to heat water and even produce electricity they would save a fortune.

You would need allot of solar panels to run an Air Conditioner which would mean a huge outlay but you could easily run the whole houses lights 24/7 using a couple of solar panels with battery storage.

When I eventually retire to Thailand I have always planed to install solar panels for both hot water and electricity and even a rain water collection system.

If the government subsidised these sort of things instead of coming up with these crack pot schemes which no one will take notice of and will be forgotten about in a couple of weeks, they might get a bit of respect at least from me anyway.

Simon

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Does anyone know why solar power hasn't been exploited to any significant extent in Thailand? Is it because of installation costs, power storage issues, running costs or what?

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi there.

Yet another "suggestion" how energy could be saved by the people. Guess what: Nobody will care, because there are zero incentives.

A sure-fire method (yet forced somehow) to save enormous amounts of energy:

Shut down EVERY TV-station between 19.30 and 20.00 every day for a month.

Since every thai household seems to run at least one TV set continuously for 24 hours per day, that would really save energy and on a sideline would eventually get some more kids to read a book or play a game with their parents instead of fighting who get's the remote controller.

Regards....

Thanh

[bino]

A sure-fire method (yet forced somehow) to save enormous amounts of energy:

Shut down EVERY TV-station between 19.30 and 20.00 every day for a month.

Since every thai household seems to run at least one TV set continuously for 24 hours per day, that would really save energy and on a sideline would eventually get some more kids to read a book or play a game with their parents instead of fighting who get's the remote controller.

Regards....

Thanh

I have to agree with you- televisions use a lot of electricity, and Thai people seem to be seriously addicted to them and the crap programming.

On 1 June, the prime minister and three deputies prime minister would be invited to preside over a countdown ceremony for the launch of the campaign, to be held at the Government House, he disclosed.

"When the time comes, each building and household will be urged to switch off at least one light for five minutes simultaneously", said the minister.

The ceremony will be broadcast live on Modernine TV of MCOT Public Company Limited (MCOT) and TV Channel 11 of the government's Public Relations Department (PRD).

This is the proof of the pudding! Telling everyone to turn off lights to launch an energy saving campaign that will be broadcast on TV! The whole nation needs to tune in to this......

I just don't get it sometimes.

Edited May 29, 2005 by bino

[Scott]

I covered my bedroom windows with thin styofoam sheets. My room is really, really, hot, so I have to run the A/C all night--also only one window, so can't get a breeze. The styofoam sheets made a big difference. The cool air stays in now and the a/c runs less. I might put some on the south facing wall.

[Upcountry]

styofoam sheets....

Interesting solution. I'm tempted to try this too, along the hot walls walls of my house.

The problem is that a quick web search shows that styrofoam may be flammable. Hope you don't smoke.

It might be worth looking for fireproof styrofoam or other type of insulation. Maybe finding a way to block cracks in the window may help. Or UV ray window glass coverings, like we see on cars.

Mainly your point is well taken about keeping heat from getting in.

[Jimmy in Bangkok]

and limit driving speeds to 90 km/hour.

###### that idea!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, no... that limit is only for city streets! If the light turns green then do your best to try to achive 90km/hr! It's a national campaign now!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like it

[lingling]

Installation costs? 20m steel or copper pipe laid out on top of the roof will do it in this climate. No need for any fancy panels. Paint the pipe and the background black for extra boost.

Anyway, if you have a/c, it is even cheaper to have a 50-60l water tank next to the a/c heat exchanger. A few meters of a/c pipe coiled inside and then connect it between the compressor outlet and the heat exchanger. Will generate boiling temperature water whenever the a/c is running. Coat it with your favorite insulating material and it will keep the hot water for hours after you turn off the a/c. No need for any 6kW direct heaters...

[bino]

Anyway, if you have a/c, it is even cheaper to have a 50-60l water tank next to the a/c heat exchanger. A few meters of a/c pipe coiled inside and then connect it between the compressor outlet and the heat exchanger. Will generate boiling temperature water whenever the a/c is running. Coat it with your favorite insulating material and it will keep the hot water for hours after you turn off the a/c. No need for any 6kW direct heaters...

I once stayed at a resort somewhere in Thailand (can't remember which one) that had a system like this. They had a nice explanation brochure describing to run the aircon for at least 20 mins to get hot water. I thought it was brilliant.

[lingling]

Yet another "suggestion" how energy could be saved by the people. Guess what: Nobody will care, because there are zero incentives.

A sure-fire method (yet forced somehow) to save enormous amounts of energy:

Shut down EVERY TV-station between 19.30 and 20.00 every day for a month.

Since every thai household seems to run at least one TV set continuously for 24 hours per day, that would really save energy and on a sideline would eventually get some more kids to read a book or play a game with their parents instead of fighting who get's the remote controller.

Thanh

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a surefire method for getting them off the couch, but again we are talking about minimal savings when it comes to electricity. A typical TV set will use maybe 75W. A modern 12kBTU A/C with a #5 energy rating will use about 1kW. Direct water heaters typically use anywhere between 3kW and 6kW.

Translated:

TV: ~4 flourescent lights

12kBTU AC: ~55 flourescent lights

Shower heater: ~166-333 flourescent lights

My vote goes for surcharges on A/Cs installed in uninsulated houses. And possibly also make it illegal to not insulate large office buildings and department stores.

Another amazing thing that thai chinese are doing is orienting their office buildings, hospitals etc to collect as much heat as possible. Something that may make sense in northern china but not here. "feng shui"...

A prime example is Bumrungrad Hospital. This is a relatively modern building, yet it is perfectly aligned from north to south so that the large surface areas face east and west. It is like a huge solar panel where the east side will get heated up dawn-noon and the west side will collect heat from noon-sunset. I doubt they have any double glazed windows or any kind of insulation in that building.

[Rinrada]

Negative thinking here ...Ask any decent spark and he will tell you that shutting down your power supply for even just 5 minutes will cost you any thing up to 50 times MORE to re boot.....big No Way.

Shutting down the Governments sunshine boys who came up with this silly brainstorm would prove to be much more cost effective and dosh saving

however TIT...

[hansco]

Cheweng Resort in Samui uses the hot water via the Air Con method in there bungalows and it worked a treat when I stayed there. There was a notice on the bathroom door explaining you had to have the Air Con on to get hot water, it was red hot after 5 mins. Didn't see a storage tank out back so I presume it had some sort of heat exchanger directly on the pipe.

Some other bungalows I stayed in Samui again had solar panels on the roof for hot water but there was 1 for 3 bungalows so you had to get to the showers before your neighbours in the evening or it was luke warm.

I don't know the figures but the hot water system just involves a small tank, a length of pipe running round a reflective surface on your roof. The tank is fed from the mains or pump from a well but no power is required for the heating process as convection circulates the water round the heating pipes then gravity takes it from the tank to the tap.

Solar power is alot more expensive and you would need a roof full of them to produce 1kw and that still wouldn't power your air con as the compressor pulls 3-5 times that when it starts up as you will notice when the lights dim everytime the air con cuts in.

The only energy efficient way I can see to cool a house is to throw the air con out and put a few inches of insulation on all the wall and ceilings and obviously double glazing.

I am no expert so please correct me on any of this

Simon.

[hansco]

On 1 June, the prime minister and three deputies prime minister would be invited to preside over a countdown ceremony for the launch of the campaign, to be held at the Government House, he disclosed.

"When the time comes, each building and household will be urged to switch off at least one light for five minutes simultaneously", said the minister.

The ceremony will be broadcast live on Modernine TV of MCOT Public Company Limited (MCOT) and TV Channel 11 of the government's Public Relations Department (PRD).

Prepare for the national power cut 5 mins after this program then from the power surge on the grid when all the lights in Thailand get switched back on

If they all turned of together (Not that they will) a number of power stations would have to be cut from the grid to prevent overload then 5 mins later switched back in

Do they just make all this s... up and not ask anyone higher than a dodgy back street electrician?

Simon.

[yuyi]

Solar power is alot more expensive and you would need a roof full of them to produce 1kw and that still wouldn't power your air con as the compressor pulls 3-5 times that when it starts up as you will notice when the lights dim everytime the air con cuts in.

I heard that a solar power system producing enough to keep a house with lights, refrigerator, some fans and computers going is available for about 100000 baht. After 10 years or so you might need to change the battery.

Doesn't that sound good? No more power cuts! No more bills to pay every month! And it pays itself in less than 10 years.

Not enough for aircon though, but come on, if you want it cold, what are you doing here anyway?

The only energy efficient way I can see to cool a house is to throw the air con out and put a few inches of insulation on all the wall and ceilings and obviously double glazing.

I am no expert so please correct me on any of this

Simon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes, Simon, I fully agree. A well designed house, with some airflow, does not need aircon.

[Beachbunny]

I agree with lingling,

I am constantly amazed that Thailand doesn't make use of the free energy available to it, solar energy.

If the government encouraged the use of solar panels to heat water and even produce electricity they would save a fortune.

You would need allot of solar panels to run an Air Conditioner which would mean a huge outlay but you could easily run the whole houses lights 24/7 using a couple of solar panels with battery storage.

When I eventually retire to Thailand I have always planed to install solar panels for both hot water and electricity and even a rain water collection system.

If the government subsidised these sort of things instead of coming up with these crack pot schemes which no one will take notice of and will be forgotten about in a couple of weeks, they might get a bit of respect at least from me anyway.

Simon

I totally agree with you. However, I don't see the thai gov't subsidizing solar energy anytime soon. They will also have to make solar equipment a lot less costly and easier to acquire. One guy in Pattaya is selling 1 solar panel, transformer for 100,000 baht plus. I only paid a little more than that for 14 plus panels and all my equipment (no U.S. gov't subsidy either)excluding batteries in California before coming to Thailand.

As far as turning off the lights----a lot of people are going to be sitting in the dark then. Most houses I've been in, or driven by, especially out of Bangkok are already so dark you can hardly see your hand in front of your face. Even the house I'm staying in here in BKK has such poor lighting you can't do detail work at night. (and no I'm not going to change all the lights in someone else's house when I'm going to move anyway.)

Beachbunny

[bino]

Cheweng Resort in Samui uses the hot water via the Air Con method in there bungalows and it worked a treat when I stayed there.

You're right... This is the resort I stayed in and couldn't remember!

[Estrada]

Does anyone know why solar power hasn't been exploited to any significant extent in Thailand? Is it because of installation costs, power storage issues, running costs or what?

Estrada: I worked with Shell Oil on the development of solar power in the UK back in the 70's. Answer is that the pay back for the equipment is around 10-20 years, which is the same as the life of the equipment. Therefore it does not pay for itself. However if you are a do it yourselfer and can make a system youself out of scrap materials then you it can be sensible.

Solar Cells are currently being developed at a lower cost and the Israelis are probably the World leaders in Solar Cell Power Plants. However a large land area is required per megawatt produced, and therefore the technology is viable only where land is very cheap or free such as the Desert.

Best option I have seen are mini Gas Turbine Generators which can run on natural gas. These provide power and heat for the house with the excess power being sold to the national grid. Of course there is still Nuclear Power and Thailand has a 2 MW plant on Vipawadi Rangsit rd., but no further development has been planned as far as I know.