The Thai Political Word Thread. ..

[klons]

(words I think I heard)

เจตนา

intention; purpose; aim; intent

สมานฉันท์ 

reconciliation; harmony

โน้มน้าว

cajole; prevail upon; wheedle; convince

สันติอหิงสา

peaceful nonviolence

บุกรุก

intrude trespass

คนบริสุทธิ์

innocent people

โล่ห์มานุษ 

human shield? or shield the humans?

Basically it went like this ,The puu chum num entered the area

then:

tao gap bpai bpen loh manut

hai gap puu gaw gaan raai

I’d say it would translate as: equal to a human shield for the terrorists.

(nevermind, zero hits with google for โล่ห์มานุษ )

[Tod Daniels]

Anyone know what Abhisit’s; "road map to peace and reconciliation" is called?

[DavidHouston]

Anyone know what Abhisit’s; "road map to peace and reconciliation" is called?

Aphisit quoted in an article in yesterday's Matichon newspaper:

"กระบวนการปรองดอง", a process of reconciliation.

[DavidHouston]

I am going to take a stab at translating the paragraph from the Prime Minister's speech which contains Todd's question:

"วันนี้จะมาพูดถึงการคลี่คลายสถานการณ์ความขัดแย้งทางการเมืองที่เกิดขึ้นจากหลายสาเหตุ เป็นการสะสมปัญหามาเป็นระยะเวลานานหลายปี ที่สะสมมาทั้งหมดทำให้เกิดความแตกแยกร้าวลึก คำตอบทางการเมืองที่อยากบอกประชาชนในวันนี้ คือการสร้างกระบวนการปรองดองขึ้นมา กระบวนการนี้ผมได้สดับตรับฟังจากหลายฝ่ายที่ได้ถ่ายทอดปัญหาความเดือดร้อนที่อาจเป็นปัญหาความขัดแย้งอย่างครบถ้วน"

Today I would like to discuss a resolution to the current political dissention which has arisen due to multiple causes. [These] problems have been building up for many years and this multiplicity [of problems] has created deep divisions [within our society]. The answer to these political problems which I wish to convey to our people today is to create a process of reconciliation. This process [has been developed] by listening very carefully [to the voices] of many factions who have fully discussed [with me] the many problems and frustrations which have been the cause of this dissension."

The last sentence poses a problem for my comprehension. I welcome anyone who can correct my translation.

Thanks.

[farangnahrak]

DavidHouston, I almost think ขัดแย้ง would be better translated as 'division', not 'dissension'.

[klons]

Anyone know what Abhisit’s; "road map to peace and reconciliation" is called?

From the radio, I have a clip where the “Roht Map” is referred to.

What I think they say is: plan to correct trouble and politics “Roht Map”

paen gan gae kai panhaa tang gan meuang ??? Roht Map.

(something close to that)

road_map.mp3

[klons]

Another clip in reference to the road map, I believe.

Roadmap_II.mp3

[321niti123]

DavidHouston, I almost think ขัดแย้ง would be better translated as 'division', not 'dissension'.

I dont think its division, i think the actual translation is conflict but division is more towards garn baeng yaek

[farangnahrak]

I could quite possible be wrong on this but . . .

I did quite often hear him say แยก during his speech . . .

. . . Its just that "which have been the cause of this dissension" sounds too much like a loaded sentence, not something that Abhisit with his 'sweet words' wouldn't say. 'Dissension' would be seen as an anti-UDD comment, and 'division' would be a much more neutral term.

This is how my theory goes, at least . . .

As a side comment, I met and shook hands with เสธ.แดง (Seh Daeng, the militaristic UDD leader) a few hours ago. Took a picture like he was a tourist attraction, hehe. Another word to add to the list!

[DavidHouston]

I could quite possible be wrong on this but . . .

I did quite often hear him say แยก during his speech . . .

. . . Its just that "which have been the cause of this dissension" sounds too much like a loaded sentence, not something that Abhisit with his 'sweet words' wouldn't say. 'Dissension' would be seen as an anti-UDD comment, and 'division' would be a much more neutral term.

This is how my theory goes, at least . . .

As a side comment, I met and shook hands with เสธ.แดง (Seh Daeng, the militaristic UDD leader) a few hours ago. Took a picture like he was a tourist attraction, hehe. Another word to add to the list!

Actually, if I were writing the speech, I would have said "division", because, as you said, the term describes a down-the-middle cleavage into two portions, not a deviation. On the other hand, he seems to have said "ขัดแย้ง" (conflict), rather than "แตกแยก" (cleavage), the former being a more loaded term. He said what he said; we as translators should not sugarcoat the words of the PM.

I have been criticized before in these forums as quibbling about the English, rather than on the interpretation of the Thai. In this context I think the issue is about the meaning of the Thai expression and the issue is valid.

[farangnahrak]

Actually, I think the word 'conflict' as you suggested would also fit better . . . Mr Abhisit sugar coats his own speeches, so thats why I'm convinced he wouldn't put a loaded term in it.

Another word I heard in his speech (if I remember right), and I've been seeing in the papers lately:

ข้อมูลข่าวสาร - news information

A good reference example:

"...การให้ข้อมูลข่าวสารที่ถูกต้องครบ"

...making news information correct and complete.

(in other words, news that doesn't spread misinformation)

[DavidHouston]

Friends,

A snippet from Siam Rath:

". . . มีการวางแผนว่าหากมีการสลายก็จะใช้แผนขนมชั้นตีโอบทหารอีกชั้น"

Can someone explain to me the tactic of "ใช้แผนขนมชั้นตีโอบทหารอีกชั้น"? Sounds like ". . . to envelop the soldiers on all sides" (like Hannibal's defeat of Scipio at Cannae), but that's just a guess.

Thanks.

Edited May 5, 2010 by DavidHouston

[uppalux]

ขนมชั้น is a snack , http://images.google.co.th/imglanding?q=%E...dM&start=11

a wafer like layer after layer

a first group of red protester will stand ground. in a camp or stage.

then if a military is going to break by surround , envelope a protester then , reds will call for more backup and ambush a milatary from somewhere.

double envelope the breaking operation, outrun by greater number , humanshield . likethat

[DavidHouston]

Excellent, Uppalux. Thank you. Hannibal would be proud!

[farangnahrak]

Perhaps useful information . . . The barricades at the protest sight have many layers. About every block or two is a defensive wall of bamboo and tires. Many walls need to be breached to get to the stage. Perhaps they mean if a layer is breached, they can just fall back to the next layer?

[DavidHouston]

From today’s Matichon:

“หากนายอภิสิทธิ์ ประกาศวันยุบสภามาแน่นอนแล้วคนเสื้อแดงยอมรับเรื่องเงื่อนเวลาได้ ก็จะไปสู่การเจรจาในรายละเอียดอีกครั้งเพื่อกำหนดให้ชัดเจนลงไปเลยว่าระหว่างทางก่อนที่จะยุบสภาตามที่ได้ตกลงกันนั้นจะต้องทำอะไรบ้าง”

“Once Mr. Aphisit announces the firm date on which the parliament will be dissolved, the Red Shirts can accept [this] binding date. [We] will then pursue detailed negotiations once again in order to establish very clearly what needs to be done before the agreed dissolution date.”

1. Is the Thai phrase “หาก . . . แล้ว” equivalent to the English conjunction “once”?

2. I was not familiar with the term “เงื่อนเวลา”; Domnern Sathienpong defines this a a legal phrase meaning “time clause”. Is my usage as “binding date” here correct?

3. I am not sure that I understand the clause “ระหว่างทางก่อนที่จะยุบสภาตามที่ได้ตกลงกันนั้นจะต้องทำอะไรบ้าง”. Is my interpretation above correct?

Thanks for your help.

[farangnahrak]

1. hmmmm fits perfectly . . . not sure if all cases, but seems right to me!

3. I couldn't think of a better way to word it (its a fairly hefty sentence, no?)

I just ran into this list of the UDD leaders. You probably know half already . . . I was debating how to spell 'Weng' in Thai for weeks now . . .

ทักษิณ บิ๊กจิ๋ว จตุพร เหวง วีระ กี้ เสธแดง

[Tod Daniels]

I was talking to some thais (of various color shirt persuasions; redz, yellowz, multiz, dark bluez, etc) about the difficulty for foreigners in understanding thai politics without knowing a TON of political words.

I had with me a 9 page sheet of thai political words I shamelessly ripped from Kaewmala's blog "Love & Sex in Thai Culture" here; http://thaisextalk.wordpress.com/2010/04/1...lored-politics/

I had the red leaders listed, and when they got to the violence advocating, red-firebrand, whack job known as Maj Gen Khattiya Sawasdipol; พลตรี ดร.ขัตติยะ สวัสดิผล, also listed as Seh Daeng; เสธ. แดง they said I had the alias listed wrong. I already knew that เสธ. was the abbreviation for เสนาธิการ: aide de camp, aid, or Chief of Staff.

The thais said is technically the correct word. However, (and even the redz sitting with us reluctantly agreed they knew of this too) everyone colloquially refers to him as 'เศษ' แดง, using the demeaning word play of เศษ which as best I can glean carries the meaning of; insignificant, scrap, left over, or a little bit.

Dunno, just thought I would throw this out there as what I was told.

I also went down to the red-bamboo/rubber tire, and formerly gasoline soaked tree fort by Chula and saw Seh Daeng too. I agree with "farangnahrak"; Khattiya's a frickin 'legend in his own mind', posing for pix, and hamming it up for the press and will bloviate about thai politics and the red ‘solution’ to anyone who will take the time to listen to him talk.

In fact next to 'whacky Weng' I don't think there is anyone who likes to hear the sound of their own voice more than Khattiya. (Even though Jatuporn Suporn and Arisman come in a close tie for third!!)

Sadly, if there is one person in the red-rabble leadership who is likely to fight this 'road map to reconciliation' and continue to preach violence as the way forward, it's Seh Daeng.

As an aside; I had a dark navy blue colored t-shirt screened with เพื่อนเนวิน in references to the "Friends of Newin" group. I made and wore it more to see the reaction than anything else. Overall the shirt has gotten an unfavorable response, especially around ANY red-rabble 'tree forts' or strongholds as Newin is blamed for switching sides and making this entire political situation come about (at least if you believe the red take on things) .

A sensible person might think twice about wearing one, but then I've never ever been accused of being particularly politically correct or caring what people thought about me .

[farangnahrak]

lol, tod-daniels . . . you should have taken a pic with him while wearing the shirt

Just to confirm what you said, I saw the term 'เศษมนุษย์' in my facebook last night in reference to Seh Daeng. I assume it means he's 'barely human.' That said, Seh Daeng was pretty much silent when I saw him.

And a good link, I'll be studying that for awhile . . .

[sabaijai]

Just to confirm what you said, I saw the term 'เศษมนุษย์' in my facebook last night in reference to Seh Daeng. I assume it means he's 'barely human.'

Better translation, methinks: 'dregs of humanity'

Here's a vid with easy Thai practice, few political terms but lots of political bearing with shades of John Lennon for good measure. Ignore the cheesy music!