What's Up With The Monks In Chiangmai?

[ginnyten]

I have lost so much respect lately for the so-called monks here in Chiangmai. So many horrible stories. Has it always been this way ? The latest news about the child-pornogrophy bust is jus horrible. I am surprised that none of you TV members have picked up on it. Please give me some feedback !!!

[tijnebijn]

There is a long thread in the newsclip forum about this incident .

I agree it is horrific , Thai monks are no different then Catholic priests .

It doesn't surprises me at all , I have seen so incredible many gay monks ,

and many are even open with it .

Some years ago one tried to seduce me , I was so terrible shocked I don't take a monk

serious anymore , and this story clearly does not surprise me at all .

They should be ashamed to wear the monks robes , it discredits to well and goodwilling ones ,

many these days turn monk for convenience .

One good way to look what a good Wat is when they are cleaning intensively every single day ,

the same routine over and over , not the ones who cash all the big money , they look pretty but

mostly have a bitty witty overweight spoiled monks in it ......

[whiterussian]

Remember that here many children are sent to become monks, regardless of what they may want... some obviously weren't destined to be a good ones. (or something happened to them to change them into criminal deviants, from within the priesthood or without)

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/budethics.htm

The third precept on training in restraint of the senses includes sexuality. A Buddhist should be mindful of the possible effects on themselves and on others of improper sexual activity. This precept would include adultery because this also breeches the precept of not taking what does is not freely given. A relationship with someone who is committed to another is stealing. Similarly in cases of rape and child abuse, one is stealing the dignity and self respect of another. One is also the cause of mental pain, not to mention physical pain so one is causing harm to another living being. Therefore, such behaviour is breaking several precepts.

You can't let it taint your view of the entire priesthood here.

Edited April 4, 2010 by whiterussian

[gotlost]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-Chi...-B-t352924.html

[ManilaLover]

THis is not only in Chiang Mai.

Experiences in Thai Buddhist temples as Monastic:

When is Thailand going to set some standards for Thai's becoming monks ?and

clean up the numerous problems within the so called bikshu sangha?.

1. WHD 5

Royal First class Thai Temple .Bangkok Thailand

Thai monk supposed to be my meditation teacher helps me put on my new Thai monk robes compliments me on my penis size and says he gay and would I like to have sex.

I accidentally see Thai monks having sex in the bathroom when I went to take my bath.

I hear Thai monks having sex with each other inside their rooms.

I see bowls plates spoons and left over food outside Thai monk’s rooms in the evening

I see Thai monks smoking cigarettes and chewing nettle and other substances.

A Temple boy says he has sex with monks every day.

Much more / source

[whiterussian]

Time to close this thread, its all too depressing! And nothing we farang can do about it.

The bottom line (no pun intended) is that the intake of novices should be moved up to an older age... but that aint gonna happen anytime soon.

I'm too scared to ask my Thai brother in law who was a monk for 10 years, before joining the navy for 4 (now happily married, two kids)... in case I offend him!

Edited April 5, 2010 by Lite Beer
Unessesary picture removed.

[IanForbes]

All I can add is that monks and priests are no different than any other human being. All Humans have their frailties and tend to go to where they get the most pleasure. Bullies will tend to take up jobs where they have power over other people. Paedophiles will take up positions where they have access to children. Most humans are sexual to some degree or another and will eventually act out what attracts them the most. It doesn't surprise me that many monks are gay or like little children in a sexual manner.

[garyh]

"And nothing we farang can do about it."

Sorry this statement is incorrect, you can do something, even it is just some financial support. The organisation below is making a real difference,

http://www.thegreyman.org/main/index.php?o...1&Itemid=29

Edited April 4, 2010 by garyh

[Loaded]

Buddhism doesn't teach evil. Evil can be anywhere and it's wrong to blame Buddhism. Buddhism is the antithesis of evil.

I agree that it's also our responsibility, if we are aware of these people and their activities, to do something about it.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Loaded

[richard10365]

Bad monks and bad priest. It seems to be everywhere. I suppose there are bad muslims too.

[Ulysses G.]

The Buddha never claimed to be a God - in fact he said the opposite. One of the wise things about Buddhism is that human frailty is to be expected. If you think that Buddhist Monks are any better than anyone else, that is probably your problem.

Catholic Priests, on the other hand, have set themselves up as representatives of the one and only God and teach homophobia (at least they did when I was a kid) as well as to completely abstain from sex outside of marriage. In other words, they are hypocrites.

I was raised a Roman Catholic and I have always made allowances for some of the silly things that they teach (not using birth control), but I have to wonder how the Priests could have taught the things they did when they knew that many of them were up to the worst kinds of depravity and they were all covering it up.

[mamborobert]

Once more something starts out abount monks and ends up about Roman Catholicism.

Monks are men, as are Jews, Islamics, Orthodoxes, Baptists etc. We all have feet of clay like mortal men. We all make mistakes, some are truly reprehensible.

As UG pointed out, they can be hypocrites. Certainly this Pope is not unblemished by any means. I too was raised a Catholic, and yes whilst there was dogma we were also encouraged to think critically. If anything that critical thinking has lead many to question not their Christianity but certainly their Catholocism. Being a lapsed Catholic should be a choice on census forms now there are so many. No doubt that the affluence, double standrads, hypocrisy and scandals have all contributed to this growing new found sub branch of the faith.

I am not an appologist by any means. As they say Christians forgive and fools forget. They should all be punished to the full extent of the law, if not more so given their position of trust.

Look they have done bad, no doubt, but whilst we are about precepts of religion, Catholicism has one credo that is quite apt for Easter, that being Redemption.

We are now on the most holy day of the Christian calendar

Can we at least please give it a rest for Easter.

[CMX]

One of the great changes due to modern communication is that the news we receive is always sensational. Generally too, it is a report about the notorious exception. Because of the horror of some of these reports, I find it easy to become angry at generalities - whole bunches of the miscreants. When the Iraq war began, I blamed my nation and... them, and diligently kept up with the numbers of the innocent dead in order to underwrite my revulsion.

A billion Moslems live lives like mine, trying our best to live decent lives and sometimes failing (and we all have differences of belief), but my point is that because of the nature of "news" one has to work hard not to associate a farmer in rural Pakistan with terrorists acting in Mumbai. Worse, depending upon how I add up what's going on around me that is vicious, evil, and most harmful to human life, it might be argued that most is not much mentioned.

I'm not Catholic, and have read enough about the historic wrongs done by its "holy" representatives throughout history to be fully jaded about many of their leaders and much of their actions. But these behaviours too (in recorded history) omit from the true histories of the great majority of us (a faithful smallholder in Brazil led by a traditional, innocent, priest - or one in 12th century England). Throughout human history in the case of all faiths, we the un-historic ARE NOT in news reports or histories. I think that it was Trevor-Roper who said that the true history is not written.

I'm not superstitions, but cannot fathom judging any way of going by its worst, notorious, aspects, least of all if it involves today's headlines. Its perspective that I lack when I do.

[Blinky Bill]

I'm presently working on a project in Myanmar. I was very surprised, when in Yangon, to be approached on the street by novices begging/demanding money on more than one occasion.

Last night whilst having a beer on the street in Myitkyina, I was amazed to see two mature (40'ish) monks walk up to the adjacent table with their hands out and what appeared to me to be threatening looks, one of the young men at the table handed money over before the monks left.

This is not the Buddhism that I have known for the past 26 years.

[PeaceBlondie]

From forum rules

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I have lost so much respect lately for the so-called monks here in Chiangmai. So many horrible stories.

Why Chiang Mai specifically? Any reason to believe it's worse than anywhere else? Are you basing this on a single news story about a single monk?

Note that I'm not saying there aren't plenty bad apples, but it seems you're blaming the entire monkhood. That's just silly.

So there's your feedback.

Edited April 5, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[ChouDoufu]

Catholic Priests, on the other hand, have set themselves up as representatives of the one and only God and teach homophobia (at least they did when I was a kid) as well as to completely abstain from sex outside of marriage. In other words, they are hypocrites.

i disagree. the church does not teach 'homophobia,' defined as either fear or hatred of homosexuals.

they teach that homosexuality is a sin. not the same thing. hate the sin, love the sinner. (how that works out in reality is another matter.)

there may be catholics (priests even) that hate gays and call for their persecution. just as there are muslims that want to kill jews, and jews that want to burn druids, and druids that want all wicans drawn and quartered. you'll find intolerant, rascist, bigoted people in any group consisting of more than three persons.

pedophiles and hypocrites are present in the church but do not define it.

or would you agree that NAMBLA represents gays as a whole?

[ChiangMaiFun]

All I can add is that monks and priests are no different than any other human being. All Humans have their frailties and tend to go to where they get the most pleasure. Bullies will tend to take up jobs where they have power over other people. Paedophiles will take up positions where they have access to children. Most humans are sexual to some degree or another and will eventually act out what attracts them the most. It doesn't surprise me that many monks are gay or like little children in a sexual manner.

they are supposed to be different in the sense that they have taken solomn vows - it is very depressing

[LJW]

I give my respect to ALL monks. They are all trying to do the right thing, in my opinion.

Some fail. some succeed..

[ChiangMaiFun]

I give my respect to ALL monks. They are all trying to do the right thing, in my opinion.

Some fail. some succeed..

The point is some are NOT trying to do the right thing - have you not read the thread? so you will give your respect to a gay monk? or one who has sex with kids?

[ManilaLover]

Buddhism doesn't teach evil. Evil can be anywhere and it's wrong to blame Buddhism. Buddhism is the antithesis of evil.

I agree that it's also our responsibility, if we are aware of these people and their activities, to do something about it.

Living here for 10 years but I have never seen a Buddhist (only people who think they are)

They are Animist, with all their amulet BS. Enough written about that.

[LJW]

I give my respect to ALL monks. They are all trying to do the right thing, in my opinion.

Some fail. some succeed..

The point is some are NOT trying to do the right thing - have you not read the thread? so you will give your respect to a gay monk? or one who has sex with kids?

You have not lived here long enough for my reply.

[Chaimai]

The Buddha never claimed to be a God - in fact he said the opposite. One of the wise things about Buddhism is that human frailty is to be expected. If you think that Buddhist Monks are any better than anyone else, that is probably your problem.

But the excessive reverence shown towards monks (particularly in the villages) puts them on a higher pedestal.

[ginnyten]

I have lost so much respect lately for the so-called monks here in Chiangmai. So many horrible stories.

Why Chiang Mai specifically? Any reason to believe it's worse than anywhere else? Are you basing this on a single news story about a single monk?

Note that I'm not saying there aren't plenty bad apples, but it seems you're blaming the entire monkhood. That's just silly.

So there's your feedback.

How about the senior monk who only recently threw blood on soldiers ? Another poor reflection on Buddhism here in Chiangmai. I am not damning monkhood in general...nor Catholic priests. I was raised Roman Catholic but have become disillusioned over the years. Give me a break Winnie...don't be such a Kwai !!

[JuniorExPat]

"And nothing we farang can do about it."

Sorry this statement is incorrect, you can do something, even it is just some financial support. The organisation below is making a real difference,

http://www.thegreyman.org/main/index.php?o...1&Itemid=29

Thanks for that link garyh, a very interesting site.

There are so many organisations trying to make a difference in this field, I'm interested to know why you singled out The Grey Man. Would you be kind enough to elaborate a little?

To the OP: I remember being somewhat in awe of the beautiful temples and the saffron robes when I arrived in Thailand and found myself the naive participant in many conversations about the local religion, one day a colleague showed me a news story about a man who spent his days as a monk in Bangkok and his nights wearing a wig, designer suits and driving a Mercedes to visit various hotspots of nightlife. Buddhism may be a good and great religion but the individuals who make up the institution remain human, some good, some great, some not so.

JxP

[Ulysses G.]

Catholic Priests, on the other hand, have set themselves up as representatives of the one and only God and teach homophobia (at least they did when I was a kid) as well as to completely abstain from sex outside of marriage. In other words, they are hypocrites.

i disagree. the church does not teach 'homophobia,' defined as either fear or hatred of homosexuals.

they teach that homosexuality is a sin.

They certainly did when I was a youngster. The Priests often went into why homosexuality was worse than other sins. As far as I can tell, the Bible does not actually go into it much at all. They were spinning it to support their own agenda.

I have always tried to speak well of the Catholic religion, but all the recent revelations about Priests molesting children - and the others covering it up - make me question it more than ever before.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Tywais]

Closed per policy as has the original topic.