Farang Hatred Of The Reds ?

[QED]

I rest my case again

What the hel_l has that got to do with supporting what the Bangkok elite want.You tar everybody with the same feather then moan when somebody puts you into the snob slot.

GUYS,

this post confirms what i say about MOST farangs in Bangkok,such a terrible view of decent retirees,and other workers in smaller wages.When i was working in uk i was earning over 50k a year and thats why i retired early,when can you retire sonshine

Hmmm....are we supposed to be impressed????

My monthly tax bill was more than that in the UK.

I worked in the corporate banking industry which enabled me to retire at 33 yrs old, some 4 years ago, just before the shit storm happened luckily. I am working now in a totally different industry as a consultant here in Thailand as after 3 years of retirement I got mentally numb - as I am sure you are.

Oooh, I must be desperate to work in Thailand huh?

I have a girlfriend from Isaan who never went to University, and probably did work in a bar before I met her - I really don't care.

I love the fact that we are just spectators of the political farce in this country, I don't get angry like I did in the UK as I know I cannot influence anything.

I support the reds due to the fact Thaksin kept my potential father in law alive with his 30 baht healthcare. I live on the Eastern Seaboard (no.....not Pattaya) and visit Isaan rarely.

Care to readjust your silly preconceived predjudices about farangs working here?

[gregb]

I've often wondered what exactly Thaksin did to earn him the utter hatred that the Bangkok elites and their allies on TV have for him. Sure he was corrupt, but probably no more so than is par for Thai politicians from any party; sure he could be ruthless, but his "war on drugs" was immensely popular with the Thais, only the "bleeding-heart farang liberals" seem to be concerned by it - you never hear of any Thai mentioning it in a negative way. Could it be that his real fault was that he didn't actually despise the people from the North, or treat them like scum (I believe the accepted word is "morons" on TV!)?

The middle/upper-middle class Thais largely follow whatever the elites tell them to do. Monkey see monkey do. Thaksin fell out of favor with the powerful because he controlled too much money, was not willing to cut them in on some of the major telecom deals, and tried to subvert old ruling families in favor of new government reform. It was a classic case of "new money" versus "old money" in politics. Except it blew up into a much larger issues.

Now consider the specific power blocs behind the PAD. There are a lot of things about the PAD that you absolutely can't talk about on these forums. There's a reason why they are in charge and will be in charge in the near future regardless of the outcome of the protests. There's also a reason why they were given a free pass to do things like close down airports.

You are correct. Unfortunately a lot of people just can't seem to see the wood for the trees.

Getting rid of Thaksin has done nothing to move Thailand in any positive direction. Amazing how some people are so easily conned.

The current ongoing instability is largely due to the PAD and its 'influential' supporters taking the law into their own hands via a coup rather than doing it through the ballot box.

They didn't have the numbers and so they took the law into their own hands. They set the precedent and are responsible for the current instability.

They wont hold elections anytime soon either as they know they would lose.

Thaksin haters are missing the big picture and are being conned by the 'other side' who is no better and probably worse than Thaksin and his supporters.

Thaksin is Satan incarnate. That greedy corrupt cretin cost me my job, and nearly forced me to leave the country as I had no means to support myself or my family. He is not simply corrupt. He is a fascist dictator who will not allow any competition in any industry he has selected as belonging to him. I have dealt with corruption since day 1 arriving in Thailand. I am not a stranger to it. Thaksin went way beyond corruption. Thaksin is simply evil.

You people who make apologies for him disgust me. Have you absolutely no shame? Are you really so selfish as to believe the sewage that spews from your mouth?

For anyone who says "he wasn't so bad", I curse you that one day you may find yourself trying to make an honest wage against his thoroughly disgusting depravity. You will then appreciate how bad that scourge of the Earth truly is.

There is no excuse for him, and anyone who supports him is my enemy. It will be civil war before I allow that plague of a being to return and inflict harm on my family.

[mca]

Don't beat around the bush greg. Tell us how you really feel.

[michaelbale]

There really can be little justification in my view,for a foreigner who has lived in ,and been educated in a suposed democratic country who could then in turn with conscience support the reds.

These people are in their majority a paid mob,and in any country in Europe for example, that would be dealt with.

But the thing that really is interesting,is how their agressive doctrine is coming across in the comments made by foreign supporters of them.

Clockwork Orange,seems to be the one on the prowl right now but we have had some pretty banal statements from many posters in their support for the reds cause?.

Clockwork Orange,You are a bully and the worst kind,one who thinks he has something to say,but to say it you feel a need to belittle people in the process.

Have to admit though,i love the way you come back and state that you are just about to give us the real facts,thanks for that mate .

Let me show you how easy it is to reply to your futile attempts to justify their actions

Heres just a few,of my favorites from you in the last day and your replies to some of the other posters.

“Many Farangs were brought up to espouse democratic values, yet in Thailand they so vehemently oppose a democratically elected civilian Prime Minister”.

What?,Really?,if that person who was elected,is then caught on numerous counts of abusing his power for his own personal gains,as has now been proven in a court of law,now that is what you call a fact by the way ,Clock.

Then how can anyone in a coherent state of mind,do anything but oppose that man whoever he may be.You may find that he is hated by the majority of foreigners living here, as they disapprove of him because of what he has done to the Thais and that is all that matters.

This situation should be viewed from foreigners only,as what they believe is the best outcome for the whole of thailand and not personal visa interests.

Which brings me on to your next point! Another one of your great facts!

“Fact: since the 2006 coup, and all the way through Abhisit's reign, there has been a systemetic curtailment of foreigners rights to live, work, and do business in Thailand. Peruse the volumes of supporting evidence in the visa and immigration section, where you will find a plethora of threads edscribing in great detail the pain and gross inconvenience inflicted on foreigners who are trying to stay in Thailand. Visa running is a thing of the past, next to no PR applications have been approved since the coup, back to back tourist visas are a thing of the past, non-imm spouses and retirees have to jump through ever higher hoops and face a humiliating level of scrutiny, etc, etc. Fact: Xenophobic and anti-foreigner”

Again ,you are not really showing yourself to care about the future of Thailand there are you,it seems to me the only thing you really care about ,is just your place in it eh!

“Why on earth do so many foreigners here so violently hate the concept of a man whose policies helped people who have nothing, supporting instead a regime that is making it progressively harder for foreigners to live in Thailand?”

There are many other examples of your hidden views and agenda,but i think i have highlighted enough to make the point!

For now,oh no sorry lets not forget this little nugget of gold!

''Sure, Thaksin was corrupt too, but like you say, who in Thai politics isn't? Why single out just one person with so much focussed hatred, while ignoring all the others?''

I think it was because he was the Prime Minister mate,jesus wept!

[IMA_FARANG]

Can I offer what I hope is a reasoned response?

Firstly, I am a Farang, but I have a Thai family.

If the Reds protest was only about better conditions for the farmers in Issan...not to mention my Thai family, which is not rich, but just low wage workers or self-employed (as in stall owners in the market), I would probably support the Reds.

But I don't, because I see that all that will happen is the return of Thaksin and his lackeys...and the Reds will be worse off then than they are now. I hope no one really believes that a multi-billonaire (Thai Baht) like Thaksin will really aid the poor if he returns. He was caught before with his hand in the public till, he has been tried and found guilty of those crimes...so why do you even presume that if he became Prime Minister again he would change his nature. If I invite a guest to my house, and then I come home to find him in bed with my wife, I don't invite him back just because he says he might have changed. That's why I oppose the Reds...because they really only want to bring back the crook.

Now, I have never advocated violence...and you won't hear me do it. So please don't try to put that on me.

As I said, my Thai family is poor enough to need to work and work every day to support themselves. Yes, i provide some money....but all the children work for their own money.

I know how hard it is for an average worker in Thailand to mske ends meet. And I know the "rules" in Thailand are wieghted against the lower classes. I've seen it with my own eyes...I'm not a fool.

My Thai wife likes Thaksin beacuse his people once came to the school the grand daughter goes to, and passed out 200 baht to each student. I told her that it only came from some other place, they got the money from bribes, and used some of that bribe money to finance their election...because the parents of the students were voters. My wife said, of course, she knew that...all Thai politicians are crooks one way or the other...but at least that was the first time she or her family got anything from them. Okay, fair point...score one for her. However, she isn't a Reds supporter...mainly because the son and the oldest daughter haven't been able to go to work during the demonstations...the son drives a songthiew, and the oldest daughter has a stall selling costume jewelery and such. No customers these days, means no money coming in.

To sum up:

1. No I don't support violence...from either side. Those that do are foolish.

2. The Reds are deluding themselves if they think Thaksin will make things better for them. His family and him are the same rich people the Reds are supposedly opposing. Don't be fooled.

3. Normal working people in Bangkok are suffering because of the actions of the Reds. My family included.

4. Yes, Thailand needs a redristribution of income...the rich are too rich and the poor are deliberately kept down...but the Reds aren't the group that will do that...unless they get rid of Thaksin. If they disavow him, I might change my opinion of them.

Is that clear? Bye

[catmac]

Thaksin is Satan incarnate. That greedy corrupt cretin cost me my job, and nearly forced me to leave the country as I had no means to support myself or my family. He is not simply corrupt. He is a fascist dictator who will not allow any competition in any industry he has selected as belonging to him. I have dealt with corruption since day 1 arriving in Thailand. I am not a stranger to it. Thaksin went way beyond corruption. Thaksin is simply evil.

You people who make apologies for him disgust me. Have you absolutely no shame? Are you really so selfish as to believe the sewage that spews from your mouth?

For anyone who says "he wasn't so bad", I curse you that one day you may find yourself trying to make an honest wage against his thoroughly disgusting depravity. You will then appreciate how bad that scourge of the Earth truly is.

There is no excuse for him, and anyone who supports him is my enemy. It will be civil war before I allow that plague of a being to return and inflict harm on my family.

Well, thanks for that calm, reasoned post.

So what you are saying is that you were a lousy failure in your business. But it wasn't your fault, no, it was all due to that horrid Mr. T.

Grow up, and get a life. Wallowing in your misfortune has made you a bitter, sad loser.

[davee58]

Thaksin is Satan incarnate. That greedy corrupt cretin cost me my job, and nearly forced me to leave the country as I had no means to support myself or my family. He is not simply corrupt. He is a fascist dictator who will not allow any competition in any industry he has selected as belonging to him. I have dealt with corruption since day 1 arriving in Thailand. I am not a stranger to it. Thaksin went way beyond corruption. Thaksin is simply evil.

You people who make apologies for him disgust me. Have you absolutely no shame? Are you really so selfish as to believe the sewage that spews from your mouth?

For anyone who says "he wasn't so bad", I curse you that one day you may find yourself trying to make an honest wage against his thoroughly disgusting depravity. You will then appreciate how bad that scourge of the Earth truly is.

There is no excuse for him, and anyone who supports him is my enemy. It will be civil war before I allow that plague of a being to return and inflict harm on my family.

Well, thanks for that calm, reasoned post.

So what you are saying is that you were a lousy failure in your business. But it wasn't your fault, no, it was all due to that horrid Mr. T.

Grow up, and get a life. Wallowing in your misfortune has made you a bitter, sad loser.

Gregs post is from bitter experience, quite understandable if a hard working, decent guy loses his liveliehood and income due to corrupt business practice by a powerful meglomaniac.

What gives you the right to brand him "a lousy failure", remember that the real world looks different without the "beer goggles".

[somtampet]

I've often wondered what exactly Thaksin did to earn him the utter hatred that the Bangkok elites and their allies on TV have for him. Sure he was corrupt, but probably no more so than is par for Thai politicians from any party; sure he could be ruthless, but his "war on drugs" was immensely popular with the Thais, only the "bleeding-heart farang liberals" seem to be concerned by it - you never hear of any Thai mentioning it in a negative way. Could it be that his real fault was that he didn't actually despise the people from the North, or treat them like scum (I believe the accepted word is "morons" on TV!)?

The middle/upper-middle class Thais largely follow whatever the elites tell them to do. Monkey see monkey do. Thaksin fell out of favor with the powerful because he controlled too much money, was not willing to cut them in on some of the major telecom deals, and tried to subvert old ruling families in favor of new government reform. It was a classic case of "new money" versus "old money" in politics. Except it blew up into a much larger issues.

Now consider the specific power blocs behind the PAD. There are a lot of things about the PAD that you absolutely can't talk about on these forums. There's a reason why they are in charge and will be in charge in the near future regardless of the outcome of the protests. There's also a reason why they were given a free pass to do things like close down airports.

catmac,hit it on the head there,100% right,but the worrying part is that some Bangkok farangs talk like the elitist thais about Issan.The other poster is right,the elitists hated Thaksin because he wouldnt give them a cut and was despiced for helping the poor.

Edited April 6, 2010 by somtampet

[britmaveric]

Thaksin is Satan incarnate. That greedy corrupt cretin cost me my job, and nearly forced me to leave the country as I had no means to support myself or my family. He is not simply corrupt. He is a fascist dictator who will not allow any competition in any industry he has selected as belonging to him. I have dealt with corruption since day 1 arriving in Thailand. I am not a stranger to it. Thaksin went way beyond corruption. Thaksin is simply evil.

You people who make apologies for him disgust me. Have you absolutely no shame? Are you really so selfish as to believe the sewage that spews from your mouth?

For anyone who says "he wasn't so bad", I curse you that one day you may find yourself trying to make an honest wage against his thoroughly disgusting depravity. You will then appreciate how bad that scourge of the Earth truly is.

There is no excuse for him, and anyone who supports him is my enemy. It will be civil war before I allow that plague of a being to return and inflict harm on my family.

Well, thanks for that calm, reasoned post.

So what you are saying is that you were a lousy failure in your business. But it wasn't your fault, no, it was all due to that horrid Mr. T.

Grow up, and get a life. Wallowing in your misfortune has made you a bitter, sad loser.

Yes - looks as if gregb has lost the plot quite literally.

[somtampet]

If the reds banned soap operas and banned that damned whitener then i will get my gf to vote if i have to give her 200 baht lol.

What a load of twaddle the soap operas are with these hi-so trying to act because daddy got them a job,and the few darker skinned thai guys who are made to stick that ridiculous whitener on and even red lipstick.If these soap operas are true life for the middleclass/hi-so creatures then no wonder the reds are trying to get these hypocrites out.

[somtampet]

Thaksin is Satan incarnate. That greedy corrupt cretin cost me my job, and nearly forced me to leave the country as I had no means to support myself or my family. He is not simply corrupt. He is a fascist dictator who will not allow any competition in any industry he has selected as belonging to him. I have dealt with corruption since day 1 arriving in Thailand. I am not a stranger to it. Thaksin went way beyond corruption. Thaksin is simply evil.

You people who make apologies for him disgust me. Have you absolutely no shame? Are you really so selfish as to believe the sewage that spews from your mouth?

For anyone who says "he wasn't so bad", I curse you that one day you may find yourself trying to make an honest wage against his thoroughly disgusting depravity. You will then appreciate how bad that scourge of the Earth truly is.

There is no excuse for him, and anyone who supports him is my enemy. It will be civil war before I allow that plague of a being to return and inflict harm on my family.

Well, thanks for that calm, reasoned post.

So what you are saying is that you were a lousy failure in your business. But it wasn't your fault, no, it was all due to that horrid Mr. T.

Grow up, and get a life. Wallowing in your misfortune has made you a bitter, sad loser.

Yes - looks as if gregb has lost the plot quite literally.

we will fight them on the land,and we will fight them on the beaches

[davee58]

If the reds banned soap operas and banned that damned whitener then i will get my gf to vote if i have to give her 200 baht lol.

What a load of twaddle the soap operas are with these hi-so trying to act because daddy got them a job,and the few darker skinned thai guys who are made to stick that ridiculous whitener on and even red lipstick.If these soap operas are true life for the middleclass/hi-so creatures then no wonder the reds are trying to get these hypocrites out.

er.. I quite agree.

Just give her 200 baht anyway, she must be worth it.

[monkfish]

I actually have a reason to like Thaksin

My mother in law has a health condition which requires her to take medicine all her life.

I couldn't just let her die so footed the 4000TB bill every month for meds, then Mr Thaksin came along and introduced the 30B scheme.

Since then she gets all her medication for free so I in the long run he has saved me in the region of 480000TB. probably more.

My telephone bill came down a lot too but that was before he became Pm

[somtampet]

I actually have a reason to like Thaksin

My mother in law has a health condition which requires her to take medicine all her life.

I couldn't just let her die so footed the 4000TB bill every month for meds, then Mr Thaksin came along and introduced the 30B scheme.

Since then she gets all her medication for free so I in the long run he has saved me in the region of 480000TB. probably more.

My telephone bill came down a lot too but that was before he became Pm

Nice one,

and i am sure he has saved many thousands of lives by introducing this programme

[wintermute]

Thaksin is Satan incarnate. That greedy corrupt cretin cost me my job, and nearly forced me to leave the country as I had no means to support myself or my family. He is not simply corrupt. He is a fascist dictator who will not allow any competition in any industry he has selected as belonging to him. I have dealt with corruption since day 1 arriving in Thailand. I am not a stranger to it. Thaksin went way beyond corruption. Thaksin is simply evil.

You people who make apologies for him disgust me. Have you absolutely no shame? Are you really so selfish as to believe the sewage that spews from your mouth?

For anyone who says "he wasn't so bad", I curse you that one day you may find yourself trying to make an honest wage against his thoroughly disgusting depravity. You will then appreciate how bad that scourge of the Earth truly is.

There is no excuse for him, and anyone who supports him is my enemy. It will be civil war before I allow that plague of a being to return and inflict harm on my family.

Well, thanks for that calm, reasoned post.

So what you are saying is that you were a lousy failure in your business. But it wasn't your fault, no, it was all due to that horrid Mr. T.

Grow up, and get a life. Wallowing in your misfortune has made you a bitter, sad loser.

Yes - looks as if gregb has lost the plot quite literally.

we will fight them on the land,and we will fight them on the beaches

more like..we will fight them in our beer bars

[monkfish]

I actually have a reason to like Thaksin

My mother in law has a health condition which requires her to take medicine all her life.

I couldn't just let her die so footed the 4000TB bill every month for meds, then Mr Thaksin came along and introduced the 30B scheme.

Since then she gets all her medication for free so I in the long run he has saved me in the region of 480000TB. probably more.

My telephone bill came down a lot too but that was before he became Pm

Nice one,

and i am sure he has saved many thousands of lives by introducing this programme

Yep I am sure the scheme has saved many more lives than it did me BT.

Like I say the bloke's done me no harm so I have no reason to hate him, on the contrary.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I actually have a reason to like Thaksin

My mother in law has a health condition which requires her to take medicine all her life.

I couldn't just let her die so footed the 4000TB bill every month for meds, then Mr Thaksin came along and introduced the 30B scheme.

Since then she gets all her medication for free so I in the long run he has saved me in the region of 480000TB. probably more.

My telephone bill came down a lot too but that was before he became Pm

Nice one,

and i am sure he has saved many thousands of lives by introducing this programme

Not that debating the TRT government is particularly on topic, but he has indeed saved thousands of lives through getting tough on drugs. Facts are facts..

[michaelbale]

Thaksin is Satan incarnate. That greedy corrupt cretin cost me my job, and nearly forced me to leave the country as I had no means to support myself or my family. He is not simply corrupt. He is a fascist dictator who will not allow any competition in any industry he has selected as belonging to him. I have dealt with corruption since day 1 arriving in Thailand. I am not a stranger to it. Thaksin went way beyond corruption. Thaksin is simply evil.

You people who make apologies for him disgust me. Have you absolutely no shame? Are you really so selfish as to believe the sewage that spews from your mouth?

For anyone who says "he wasn't so bad", I curse you that one day you may find yourself trying to make an honest wage against his thoroughly disgusting depravity. You will then appreciate how bad that scourge of the Earth truly is.

There is no excuse for him, and anyone who supports him is my enemy. It will be civil war before I allow that plague of a being to return and inflict harm on my family.

Well, thanks for that calm, reasoned post.

So what you are saying is that you were a lousy failure in your business. But it wasn't your fault, no, it was all due to that horrid Mr. T.

Grow up, and get a life. Wallowing in your misfortune has made you a bitter, sad loser.

Gregs post is from bitter experience, quite understandable if a hard working, decent guy loses his liveliehood and income due to corrupt business practice by a powerful meglomaniac.

What gives you the right to brand him "a lousy failure", remember that the real world looks different without the "beer goggles".

spot on,davee58 I think some of the red supporters here,are starting to get inspiration from the great statesman like wording and diatribe coming from the red stage.

No right to call the guy a failure mate,when all he is doing is recollecting his story to the board.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Welcome to the forum, I guess..

[clockworkorange]

Agreed - politicians as a class of human beings are corrupt and self-serving, and if they can get away with it they will. Thaksin's fault was greed - he wanted to cut out everyone except his chosen few.

You contradict yourself. First you say that politicians are corrupt and self-serving, then you single out Thaksin for being greedy, as if none of the other count anymore.

Show me a politician in Thailand that isn't greedy and self serving in one way or another, and I'll show you Utopia

Edited April 6, 2010 by clockworkorange

[clockworkorange]

You want facts? Where have you been?

Fact: a lot of farangs here hate the red shirts with a passion, and this observation is the topic of the thread

Let me tackle your first "fact". If by red shirts you simply mean Thaksin then i think your fact stands; but if by red shirts you mean the thousands of mostly rural poor people he is using to fight his war for money and power then i don't think there's any truth there whatsoever - who would hate them and for what? As pawns they are victims as much as anyone else in all this.

Fact: The red shirts admire and support Thaksin

Fact: The red shirts cause represent the opinion of the rural masses

Fact: By opposing the red shirts, posters are supporting the status quo, and opposing the will of the rural masses

Fact: Many posters here lump the red shirts and Thaksin in the same bucket for obvious reasons, so it is perfectly reasonable to say that many posters hate red shirts and Thaksin in equal measure

Fact: Thai politicians have never made any secret in their cravings for money and power, so why on earth single out just one as the focus of your attention? What about Newin, whose support Abhisit courted so that he could get installed as PM? Newin was banned from politics, remember? And there was ABhisit kissing his backside in the full view of the press. There was even a photo of Abhisit presenting a bunch of roses to Newin as soon as the deal was struck. Doesn't that seem rather odd to you? What about Saprang's 7.2 million Baht 'fact finding' junket with his cronies and family. Rather a lot of money and power flowing there too, perhaps?

Fact: The junta and Abhisit have made the average foreigner's life in Thailand a whole lot more difficult, through one xenophobic rule change after another. Why would any foreigner support such people? It beggars belief.

But don't take my word for it - go down to Ratchaprasong and call a few red shirts 'pawns'. Tell them that they are ignorant and don't know what they really believe in. Then, post your experiences back here if you can still use a keyboard, why don't you?

[Ulysses G.]

Gregs post is from bitter experience, quite understandable if a hard working, decent guy loses his liveliehood and income due to corrupt business practice by a powerful meglomaniac.

I have to admit that I'm not overly fond of the Yellowjackets. They did not exactly help the Thai economy.

[clockworkorange]

Thaksin is Satan incarnate. That greedy corrupt cretin cost me my job ...

What really happened is that you were not savvy, didn't have a plan B, and lost your job because of that. Stop whingeing and get over it.

Thaksin's government cost me some opportunities too. There was a telco deal that I was working on, and I had misjudged the situation, backing the wrong partners, which cost me the deal. Business works like that - changes in public sector policy always happen when the bosses change. Rather than sit around griping, I found other opportunities that did work out and I didn't blame or resent anyone else for it.

Edited April 6, 2010 by clockworkorange

[mca]

If the reds banned soap operas and banned that damned whitener then i will get my gf to vote if i have to give her 200 baht lol.

What a load of twaddle the soap operas are with these hi-so trying to act because daddy got them a job,and the few darker skinned thai guys who are made to stick that ridiculous whitener on and even red lipstick.If these soap operas are true life for the middleclass/hi-so creatures then no wonder the reds are trying to get these hypocrites out.

On a lighter note.

" Today the UDD released a list of their latest demands including

1) A complete ban on soap operas.

2) Free 5 year visas for westerners with no 90 day reporting or paperwork needed.

3) Imported car prices to be brought into line with the west. Plus more choice.

4) A law prohibiting police from stopping western driven motor vehicles.

5) All Thai restaurants must by law serve Indian food.

6) The legalization of ganja.

7) National " No Bra Day " for female uni students in uniform.

OK LADS!!! THERE"S THE POLICE LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGE!

[LuckyFive8888]

I actually have a reason to like Thaksin

My mother in law has a health condition which requires her to take medicine all her life.

I couldn't just let her die so footed the 4000TB bill every month for meds, then Mr Thaksin came along and introduced the 30B scheme.

Since then she gets all her medication for free so I in the long run he has saved me in the region of 480000TB. probably more.

My telephone bill came down a lot too but that was before he became Pm

Good for you. Although the health scheme was originally architect by Chuan Leekpai of the Dems but has not actually implemented it, Thaksin got all the credit for it. But I think 30 baht is actually too low (no idea about the Dems plan on how much it would have been) that many Doctors has criticized it for lack of funding from the Thaksin government and many Doctors moved to higher paying private hospitals leaving most government hospital with amature newly graduate Doctors and Nurses that were also overworked. Medical equipments were also left un-modernized due to lack of funding. In return, many people have turned to private hospital to be treated well especially the middle calss that can afford the bills.

I don't know if it was actually true that Thaksin is also a shareholder of some private hospitals that were, during that time, benefited on the influx of patients that doesn't want to be waiting to be treated in the public hospital.

Don't get me wrong, it was a good health program but I think 30 baht was too cheap for the hospitals to survive.

[clockworkorange]

I have to admit that I'm not overly fond of the Yellowjackets. They did not exactly help the Thai economy.

That's an understatement

[clockworkorange]

Good for you. Although the health scheme was originally architect by Chuan Leekpai of the Dems but has not actually implemented it ...

There's nothing novel about the concept of healthcare - many countries have operated similar schemes for years, so it's unrealistic for you to claim that Chuan Leekpai invented the idea.

On your other point I do agee - implementation always was a problem with the Dems. They talk so much but never do implement anything of substance because it upsets the status quo and then they get kicked out of their jobs by one or another of their influential handlers. What people like about Thaksin was that he actually made bold changes that people could relate to - he implemented real things that had a direct and positive effect on their lives, things which his predecessors could only talk about.

Edited April 7, 2010 by clockworkorange

[Ulysses G.]

" Today the UDD released a list of their latest demands including

7) National " No Bra Day " for female uni students in uniform.

Now, THAT is worth protesting for !

[Insight]

Fact: The red shirts admire and support Thaksin

Fact: The red shirts cause represent the opinion of the rural masses

Fact: By opposing the red shirts, posters are supporting the status quo, and opposing the will of the rural masses

In the north and north-east, Thaksin is still popular. The rest of Thailand remains to be seen.

If the will of the rural masses is to bring back Thaksin, then we oppose that for sure.

Fact: Many posters here lump the red shirts and Thaksin in the same bucket for obvious reasons, so it is perfectly reasonable to say that many posters hate red shirts and Thaksin in equal measure

It's the red shirt's desire to cling to Thaksin which is bringing on the opposition, not themselves. The man knows he's a divisive figure and is using this to split the country.

Fact: Thai politicians have never made any secret in their cravings for money and power, so why on earth single out just one as the focus of your attention? What about Newin, whose support Abhisit courted so that he could get installed as PM? Newin was banned from politics, remember? And there was ABhisit kissing his backside in the full view of the press. There was even a photo of Abhisit presenting a bunch of roses to Newin as soon as the deal was struck. Doesn't that seem rather odd to you? What about Saprang's 7.2 million Baht 'fact finding' junket with his cronies and family. Rather a lot of money and power flowing there too, perhaps?

Fact: The junta and Abhisit have made the average foreigner's life in Thailand a whole lot more difficult, through one xenophobic rule change after another. Why would any foreigner support such people? It beggars belief.

Corruption -

Newin is a shady character no doubt, and the some of the corruption surrounding surrounding the health investment schemes was jaw dropping, matching the "10%" levels of TRT. But guess what happened to them under the control of the Dems? Plan dropped and the ministers fired. Would that of happened under TRT/PPT/PT? (no need to answer).

The Democrats to term date have had the strongest policy of clean politics since 2001. They've risked making enemies in the process breaking up the coalition supporting them, but they've stuck to it regardless. That has to be admired.

Anti foreigner - Any examples? Can't say I've suffered personally.

But don't take my word for it - go down to Ratchaprasong and call a few red shirts 'pawns'. Tell them that they are ignorant and don't know what they really believe in. Then, post your experiences back here if you can still use a keyboard, why don't you?

We have - Many old people there also. There's no excuse for using a manipulated audio clip to motivate people, whatever side of the fence you're on.

[[f$%ing quote limit!]]

[rixalex]

Nothing screams apologist like "sure, such and such was <insert criminal activity> but <insert justification> "

I would say that nothing screams apologist more than to believe that your side are perfect, and those you dislike are the devil incarnate!

My side? What side is that? And when did i state that they, whoever they are, are perfect?

The trouble with you Thaksin apologists is that you assume everyone elese must be an apologist too. You assume that being opposed to Thaksin must mean collusion with one of your / Thaksin's enemies, be it the yellows, the PAD, the Dems, Newin, Sondhi etc.

I'm not here to apologise, defend or support any of the above. Thai politics is a mess full of self-serving corrupt people. Thaksin happens to be one of the worst culprits in my opinion, and that's why he's a bigger target. If in your opinion there are others worse then fine, you go after them. I won't try to stop you, nor will i step forward and try to defend those people on the ridiculous grounds that others like Thaksin may be worse.