Thai 'Red Shirts' Pledge More Protests After Court Ruling

[animatic]

Well that's not a bad innings by Thai standards. Thaksin was only all "sunshine & light" for about the same amount of time during his 5 years of dictatorship...whoops, I mean power, oh wrong again, I mean, time as PM. Mostly for the rest of the time, it was spent shoring up his skullduggery, sanctioning (turning a blind eye to)the drug wars; inflaming the troubles in the south and avoiding court cases based on his non-transparent and conflicting business interests. So if you want your hero back go right ahead - but Thailand won't go right ahead and that's the sad thing.

Why do you lie and distort events? You use the expression dictatorship, yet Mr. Thaksin won his elections. The process may not have been perfect, but compared to other Thai elections it was legit.

Turning a blind eye to the drug wars? The drug cartels were trying to carve chunks of territory out of Thailand. The corruption they had sown had poisoned the judiciary, the police and the army. Look at Mexico today if you want to understand what Thaksin's intervention avoided. I defy you to go and tell the Mexican government to deal with the rogue military units, and corrupt police officers using your alternative strategy. The current situation in Mexico parallels what was underway in Thailand.

Inflaming the south? What part of the political process do you not understand? The South was under de facto army rule. The army does not consider itself as accountable to an elected government. Any government in Thailand, including Abhisit's needs the agreement and the support of the army to engage the south. That is the political reality. The vigilantes doing their night killings and beatings are following the same m.o. as seen in latin american countries that had military dictatorships.

Ok, you dislike Thaksin. Fine. That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. Bless you. Just say you don't like the man and leave out the lies and bullsh*t. Lots of people in Thaivisa dislike him too, but at least they don't invent pathetic excuses.

The fact is that you don't really give a dam_n about the Thais that suffered in the drug war do you? You don't care about the people in the south either. However, it makes you feel good to get on your high horse and bleat on about how bad things are. Tell you what, volunteer at a drug rehab centre, or a school in the south. You can put your gushing concern to work. You won't, because it's all words with the holier than thou contingent and you use these victims as pawns in your political rhetoric. What have you ever done to help these people except empty political hate speech? Climb back on your barstool and drink your Chang please.

Robert Mugabe wins elections also...

Thaksin set back peace in the south by a generation by many accounts.

How we express out feelings for Thai people need not be in your chosen manor or style.

[commons]

It's amazing how the pundits on here keep underestimating Abhisit time and again. Yet 16 months and counting, he is still PM, and still running the show. I know it drives Rainman crazy, so it must be a good thing!

thanks for saying it.

[pedro01]

Personally, I think this government is finished. You can't give people dates and times when this will be over and then just overrun them.

I don't like the alternatives but I don't see how Abhisit can survive this.

[RegularReader]

Well that's not a bad innings by Thai standards. Thaksin was only all "sunshine & light" for about the same amount of time during his 5 years of dictatorship...whoops, I mean power, oh wrong again, I mean, time as PM. Mostly for the rest of the time, it was spent shoring up his skullduggery, sanctioning (turning a blind eye to)the drug wars; inflaming the troubles in the south and avoiding court cases based on his non-transparent and conflicting business interests. So if you want your hero back go right ahead - but Thailand won't go right ahead and that's the sad thing.

Why do you lie and distort events? You use the expression dictatorship, yet Mr. Thaksin won his elections. The process may not have been perfect, but compared to other Thai elections it was legit.

Turning a blind eye to the drug wars? The drug cartels were trying to carve chunks of territory out of Thailand. The corruption they had sown had poisoned the judiciary, the police and the army. Look at Mexico today if you want to understand what Thaksin's intervention avoided. I defy you to go and tell the Mexican government to deal with the rogue military units, and corrupt police officers using your alternative strategy. The current situation in Mexico parallels what was underway in Thailand.

Inflaming the south? What part of the political process do you not understand? The South was under de facto army rule. The army does not consider itself as accountable to an elected government. Any government in Thailand, including Abhisit's needs the agreement and the support of the army to engage the south. That is the political reality. The vigilantes doing their night killings and beatings are following the same m.o. as seen in latin american countries that had military dictatorships.

Ok, you dislike Thaksin. Fine. That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. Bless you. Just say you don't like the man and leave out the lies and bullsh*t. Lots of people in Thaivisa dislike him too, but at least they don't invent pathetic excuses.

The fact is that you don't really give a dam_n about the Thais that suffered in the drug war do you? You don't care about the people in the south either. However, it makes you feel good to get on your high horse and bleat on about how bad things are. Tell you what, volunteer at a drug rehab centre, or a school in the south. You can put your gushing concern to work. You won't, because it's all words with the holier than thou contingent and you use these victims as pawns in your political rhetoric. What have you ever done to help these people except empty political hate speech? Climb back on your barstool and drink your Chang please.

Robert Mugabe wins elections also...

Thaksin set back peace in the south by a generation by many accounts.

How we express out feelings for Thai people need not be in your chosen manor or style.

Thank you Animatic.

I know we're playing with the big boys, like Geriatic Kid here and Rainman (who I wouldn't put in the same class, judging by his posts), but there is no need to call in to question my sense of feelings for Thai people - and particularly those who suffered during the drug wars. I have personal family experience with the terrible drug problems, back then and now. Just because I happen to highlight a very unsavory aspect/consequence of the so called "drug war", is no reason to do a character assination.

Nor is there a valid reason, to insult me about the South. If GK knows more, I would like to hear more.

No, I do not like Thaksin.

I do appreciate that he opened up a can of worms - which was and still is, much needed in Thailand.

Should he be part of the also much needed, "revolution".

No, I don't think he should be.

Now...where did I put my bar stool ???

[Scott]

Let's be sure and respond to the posts and not necessarily the poster. There are some strong opinions and some good discussion, it would be sad to have to halt it because of personal attacks.

Thanks.

[Throatwobbler]

I wish all the ignorant contributors here who claim that all the reds are just paid to be demontrate would stop making things up.

I know that in my village they are having to harvest their crops early to finance trips to Bangkok to lend their support.

You can call them ignorant or stupid but they do have genuine feelings that they are getting a rough deal from the powers that be.

Just the fact they have maintained the demos for 3 weeks show there is genuine commitment.

Please stop criticising them for their lack of sophistication. Sure many have limited education but that is the result of years of Bangkok elite governance and not their fault.

Just remember that at their height the yellows could get 20,000 on the street for just a few days these reds have maintained far higher numbers for 3 weeks and not closed down any airports! They may be uneducated but they are not stupid and I find it disgusting that so many so called educated farangs in this forum think they know better an dismiss their complaints out of hand.

Ok I'll talk about the experience in my girlfriends village. They live about 25km from the middle of Chiang Rai. good Thaksin country. They are not lucky enoudh to have water to be able to grow another crop. They have one rice crop a year which feeds them and their family. They don't have any to sell. The rest of the year they get by on bits and pieces. Example the dad sets traps for wild birds which he can sell at the market for 50bt. He's also a bit of an odd job mechanic. As of last week people in this village were being offered 700 Baht a day to go to Bangkok. A lot of people in the village did this because at the moment they have no crops and are just meeting ends meet.

When Thaksin was in power they and a few other people got loaned cows or bulls. As soon as they got them they started breeding them because later, they were told, Thaksin wanted them back. When the coup happened they thought ok the cow is ours now. But they did not feel sorry for Thaksin. More like here is the end of another guy with his own interests at heart. But at least we have a cow.

When I went there three weeks ago the majority of people were anti red shirt, but the red shirts were most vocal and made it seem like they were the majority. The rest of the village were being pragmatic and looking how they could benefit themselves while not knowing the whole picture.

So Somo, my girlfriend's family would love to be in a position where they caould harvest crops now but for a lot of North Thailand this is not an option now. So there are a lot of people down there now because at the moment they are being pragmatic. This is a good way to make money and they are being lied to by the red shirt leaders. These are the people I worry about if things get nasty.

I know from the figures you quote of 700 Baht/day that this is rubbish. The going rate for a hard days work in the fields is 130-150 Baht/day Why would anyone pay 700/day for walking around in Bangkok when they would jump at it for a third of that? Someone is winding you up! Perhaps they thought you would pay them 700

Ok obviously my girlfriend and her family were just blatently lying to me. Thank you for pointing out thier lies to me. I now no never to trust them again

Hmm or maybe it is you who are mistaken.

[rainman]

Personally, I think this government is finished. You can't give people dates and times when this will be over and then just overrun them.

I don't like the alternatives but I don't see how Abhisit can survive this.

He could have if he had called elections when he came to power. He had the momentum back then and could have instantly legitimized his government. Instead he chose to hold onto power by all means, as long as possible.

[Throatwobbler]

I wish all the ignorant contributors here who claim that all the reds are just paid to be demontrate would stop making things up.

I know that in my village they are having to harvest their crops early to finance trips to Bangkok to lend their support.

You can call them ignorant or stupid but they do have genuine feelings that they are getting a rough deal from the powers that be.

Just the fact they have maintained the demos for 3 weeks show there is genuine commitment.

Please stop criticising them for their lack of sophistication. Sure many have limited education but that is the result of years of Bangkok elite governance and not their fault.

Just remember that at their height the yellows could get 20,000 on the street for just a few days these reds have maintained far higher numbers for 3 weeks and not closed down any airports! They may be uneducated but they are not stupid and I find it disgusting that so many so called educated farangs in this forum think they know better an dismiss their complaints out of hand.

I totally agree with what you say. In my village people have also been getting their crops in early to help finance their journey to Bangkok to show their support. Others, who cannot go, have made a small donation to help with the cost of fuel and food. They believe that they have genuine grievances that are being ignored. They also believe that demonstratig in Bangkok is the only way they will get redress.

Whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant. Accept the fact that our opinion does not count. Even the poorly educated people in my village can express their disagreement without being rude or offensive. That is something some posters in this forum are incapable of doing.

The people in your village must not be too informed or smart ...

This was taken in Udon and they were handing out petrol/diesel money to get to Bangkok and doing it qite openly. Nothing wrong with that. The 2000 baht would hardly cover a one way trip to Bangkok for a pickup loaded with maybe a dozen people.

Perhaps you would think it fairer for only those with money be aloud to demonstrate and the poor denied the chance.

This is nothing to to do with the absurd claims that everyone is earning 700 baht/day for strolling around Bangkok

Nowhere did I claim that everyone at the rallies was being paid 700 baht a day. This was merely the figure tat was being offered to people in my girlfriends village. This was a few days after the big rally on the first Saturday and when they desperately needed to get the figures back up again for the second Saturday. You obviously think that this is a lie and don't want to listen to anything said against the reds. Well that's up to you.

As for the expences in Udon. If all 12 people in the truck are being paid 2000baht then they can split the petrol between them and still make a nice little earner. Again you probably think that only the driver would get the expense money and the others would refuse it as they already have a lift.

[commons]

Personally, I think this government is finished. You can't give people dates and times when this will be over and then just overrun them.

I don't like the alternatives but I don't see how Abhisit can survive this.

He could have if he had called elections when he came to power. He had the momentum back then and could have instantly legitimized his government. Instead he chose to hold onto power by all means, as long as possible.

rainman, you're obsessed. with sth you call "power". at same time you speak again & again & again about "democracy" - but democracy is not about "power", it's about governance. imho, _you_ & many other vocal supporters of (so-called) "red shirt grievances", you _don't_ want democracy, a power of balance between different factions. _no_, you just want _to rule_.

i support Abhisit because of his policies. i'm aware of problems, sure i am. but, sorry, rainman - up to this very day i have _not_ heard about _any_ policies (socio-economical, cultural, science&tech-development, education, etc etc etc) from neither UDD nor PT.

neither UDD nor PT is capable to govern. there's no vision, no strategy, no leaders capable to implement policies. let me remind of PT's performance in parliament - which is a farce & a disgrace.

so, rainman, what do you really have to offer?

just say it. who'll lead thailand into new century?

[TheOldWolf]

Personally, I think this government is finished. You can't give people dates and times when this will be over and then just overrun them.

I don't like the alternatives but I don't see how Abhisit can survive this.

He could have if he had called elections when he came to power. He had the momentum back then and could have instantly legitimized his government. Instead he chose to hold onto power by all means, as long as possible.

PPP could have dissolved the parlament until that day they got banned. They know for month what was goin to happen, so they had time to form a new party PTP. Tell me why should democrates do what PPP didnt do?

[Sunderland]

Even if the reds ultimately lose their battle to force house dissolution, it was a master stroke to move to Rajprasong intersection. Made it easier for their supporters to go shopping and travel around the city centre.

[LuckyFive8888]

Even if the reds ultimately lose their battle to force house dissolution, it was a master stroke to move to Rajprasong intersection. Made it easier for their supporters to go shopping and travel around the city centre.

use the toilet and take a bath inside malls and nearby hotels. but isn't that the malls are closed and aren't letting the protesters in?

[Indra]

Consider Thaksin is the bad guy.

But it is the fact that the current government raised to power because of a demonstration...

Sorry no that is NOT a fact.

There were TWO governments put in place via domestic voting PRIOR to this current government.

When this coalition was formed there WAS NO demonstration nor airport take over happening.

This government was installed by the same process as the one before it.

No difference except the leading players changed.

Stop buying into the propaganda lie that is the basis of this coming riot situation.

Look, I am not a supporter of Thaksin (if I did, my Thai friends would kill me because they hate Thaksin )

However, if Abhisit came to power NOT because of the demonstration, then what was the purpose of PAD demonstration?

I think that politicians are the same in every country, they see where the wind blows and take their position accordingly.

[Indra]

I am sure there are individual cases of money changing hands and the yellow shirts used the same sort of incentives.

However if it was just a matter of money and not genuine greivances then the solution would be simple. Just pay them to go home.

The shops are losing something like a billion baht a day in business so just give them half and the problem will go away.

The trouble is the reds wouldn't take it. They are proud and cannot be bought by those they feel are bad people.

Yes, I totally agree with this.

PAD did the same (giving money) but obviously most of them joined the demonstration for what they believe.

[Nuchanart]

Even if the reds ultimately lose their battle to force house dissolution, it was a master stroke to move to Rajprasong intersection. Made it easier for their supporters to go shopping and travel around the city centre.

use the toilet and take a bath inside malls and nearby hotels. but isn't that the malls are closed and aren't letting the protesters in?

That's exactly why The YELLOW move to the airport. All season well sheltered (no more rally in the rain). Excellent covered parking with connecting walkway. Good toilets. 100% airconditioned. Free electricity and Water. Even 1st class longe access for ROP membesr. They even play badminton with their kids in the terminal building. Want me to show you some pictures? i am sure you can google it yourself.

http://stilgherrian.com/politics/intro-tha...litical-crisis/

[shawndoc]

Look, I am not a supporter of Thaksin (if I did, my Thai friends would kill me because they hate Thaksin )

However, if Abhisit came to power NOT because of the demonstration, then what was the purpose of PAD demonstration?

I think that politicians are the same in every country, they see where the wind blows and take their position accordingly.

The PAD were trying to stop the PPP/PTP from passing any laws that would either get Thaksin off the hook and back into the country,as well as getting the PPP off the hook for the vote buying. They were trying to stop the administration from functioning while waiting on the courts verdict, and it worked.

That's why they shut down government house, and that's why they went to the airport (to prevent the PM from flying back to Bangkok).

Now did the protest have some effect on the PPP's coalition partners and getting them to form a new coalition with the Democrats after the PPP was disbanded? Probably, but as to how much influence we'll probably never know.

[SanSaiExPat]

That will silence the people that say the courts have been subourned and now he can still deal with the issue. Kinda smart!

the way ive read between the lines the courts have back healed it. saying its up to the goverment to sort out. i hope the reds reach their goal.

What you mean

they already have

they want an early election and the PM said okay

What part of yes you not understand

Rick, could you show me in writing where the current government has agreed to free and open elections and what the time table is for the elections are? I guess it's possible I missed that news.

[Thai at Heart]

Even if the reds ultimately lose their battle to force house dissolution, it was a master stroke to move to Rajprasong intersection. Made it easier for their supporters to go shopping and travel around the city centre.

use the toilet and take a bath inside malls and nearby hotels. but isn't that the malls are closed and aren't letting the protesters in?

That's exactly why The YELLOW move to the airport. All season well sheltered (no more rally in the rain). Excellent covered parking with connecting walkway. Good toilets. 100% airconditioned. Free electricity and Water. Even 1st class longe access for ROP membesr. They even play badminton with their kids in the terminal building. Want me to show you some pictures? i am sure you can google it yourself.

http://stilgherrian.com/politics/intro-tha...litical-crisis/

Why didn't they go to BITEC then?

[shawndoc]

Rick, could you show me in writing where the current government has agreed to free and open elections and what the time table is for the elections are? I guess it's possible I missed that news.

It was part of the televised negotiations with the Reds. Reds demanded he dissolve the government in 15 days. He offered 9 months and explained why he needed 9 months. Rather than negotiate with Abhisit for something shorter (like 6 months or 3 months), the Reds instead said they would only accept 15 days.

So the reds had a chance to get Abhisit out in 9 months, and if they had negotiated probably even sooner than that. Instead they refused to negotiate or budge on their 15 day demand.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30125988.html

The early timeline is even supported by other members of the current governing coalition.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Coali...o-30126013.html

[ableguy]

The tide is turning. The police aren't following orders by Abhisit to arrest protesters. The courts are declining as well.

Keep on fighting, Abhisit. For your own good, not for the good of the Thai people.

Seems to me rainman your full of sh........t since when did the police follow any orders except their own, sorry forgot the order from Thaksin to murder anyone suspected of involvement in the drug trade.

[animatic]

The tide is turning. The police aren't following orders by Abhisit to arrest protesters. The courts are declining as well.

Keep on fighting, Abhisit. For your own good, not for the good of the Thai people.

Seems to me rainman your full of sh........t since when did the police follow any orders except their own, sorry forgot the order from Thaksin to murder anyone suspected of involvement in the drug trade.

Besides the fact on the ground orders are from Suthep the Security Director.

Abhisit sets policy and Suthep decides how to implement it.

Which also explains why Suthep stood against Abhisit somewhat

in the Police positions for money fight, he kept a few cops on his side by that act.

Edited April 7, 2010 by animatic

[SanSaiExPat]

Rick, could you show me in writing where the current government has agreed to free and open elections and what the time table is for the elections are? I guess it's possible I missed that news.

It was part of the televised negotiations with the Reds. Reds demanded he dissolve the government in 15 days. He offered 9 months and explained why he needed 9 months. Rather than negotiate with Abhisit for something shorter (like 6 months or 3 months), the Reds instead said they would only accept 15 days.

So the reds had a chance to get Abhisit out in 9 months, and if they had negotiated probably even sooner than that. Instead they refused to negotiate or budge on their 15 day demand.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30125988.html

The early timeline is even supported by other members of the current governing coalition.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Coali...o-30126013.html

After having read everything it doesn't seem to be a clear cut as you make it out to be. In the first place you have to remember he's asking for (9) nine months on top of the (48 Months) four years he's already had since the coup. After the coup the current government promised free elections in one year. Yes elections were held not in one year but in Dec 2007 with everyone in TRT prevented from running for 5 years. I think nine months is unreasonable and I don't think anyone knows, yourself included, if Abhisits' offer was an "all or nothing" offer in an attempt to try to make the Red Shirts look unreasonable. If It was then it sounds to me like the current government is just buying time and not sincere, as one Thai military officer stated, in the Nation article that you provided the URL for.

"A senior military officer said the two rounds of talks showed both sides were insincere about resolving the conflict, as they seemed to have engaged in on-air political campaigning to win votes.

The officer said the government would gain the upper hand if it could prolong its tenure, largely because tens of billion of baht in the state budget were being disbursed to constituencies nationwide."

I think people are smart enough to see through offers lacking sincerity and honesty. I hope a genuine equitable bilateral solution can be reached.

[anotherpeter]

Rick, could you show me in writing where the current government has agreed to free and open elections and what the time table is for the elections are? I guess it's possible I missed that news.

It was part of the televised negotiations with the Reds. Reds demanded he dissolve the government in 15 days. He offered 9 months and explained why he needed 9 months. Rather than negotiate with Abhisit for something shorter (like 6 months or 3 months), the Reds instead said they would only accept 15 days.

So the reds had a chance to get Abhisit out in 9 months, and if they had negotiated probably even sooner than that. Instead they refused to negotiate or budge on their 15 day demand.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30125988.html

The early timeline is even supported by other members of the current governing coalition.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Coali...o-30126013.html

After having read everything it doesn't seem to be a clear cut as you make it out to be. In the first place you have to remember he's asking for (9) nine months on top of the (48 Months) four years he's already had since the coup. After the coup the current government promised free elections in one year. Yes elections were held not in one year but in Dec 2007 with everyone in TRT prevented from running for 5 years. I think nine months is unreasonable and I don't think anyone knows, yourself included, if Abhisits' offer was an "all or nothing" offer in an attempt to try to make the Red Shirts look unreasonable. If It was then it sounds to me like the current government is just buying time and not sincere, as one Thai military officer stated, in the Nation article that you provided the URL for.

"A senior military officer said the two rounds of talks showed both sides were insincere about resolving the conflict, as they seemed to have engaged in on-air political campaigning to win votes.

The officer said the government would gain the upper hand if it could prolong its tenure, largely because tens of billion of baht in the state budget were being disbursed to constituencies nationwide."

I think people are smart enough to see through offers lacking sincerity and honesty. I hope a genuine equitable bilateral solution can be reached.

The red leaders have insisted on dissolving the government in 15 days and having elections. Have they stated anywhere what they plan to do IF they win elections?

edit: except on stage or red tv where they have stated that they'll bring back Thaksin.

Edited April 7, 2010 by anotherpeter

[bangkokrick]

Rick, could you show me in writing where the current government has agreed to free and open elections and what the time table is for the elections are? I guess it's possible I missed that news.

It was part of the televised negotiations with the Reds. Reds demanded he dissolve the government in 15 days. He offered 9 months and explained why he needed 9 months. Rather than negotiate with Abhisit for something shorter (like 6 months or 3 months), the Reds instead said they would only accept 15 days.

So the reds had a chance to get Abhisit out in 9 months, and if they had negotiated probably even sooner than that. Instead they refused to negotiate or budge on their 15 day demand.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30125988.html

The early timeline is even supported by other members of the current governing coalition.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Coali...o-30126013.html

After having read everything it doesn't seem to be a clear cut as you make it out to be. In the first place you have to remember he's asking for (9) nine months on top of the (48 Months) four years he's already had since the coup. After the coup the current government promised free elections in one year. Yes elections were held not in one year but in Dec 2007 with everyone in TRT prevented from running for 5 years. I think nine months is unreasonable and I don't think anyone knows, yourself included, if Abhisits' offer was an "all or nothing" offer in an attempt to try to make the Red Shirts look unreasonable. If It was then it sounds to me like the current government is just buying time and not sincere, as one Thai military officer stated, in the Nation article that you provided the URL for.

"A senior military officer said the two rounds of talks showed both sides were insincere about resolving the conflict, as they seemed to have engaged in on-air political campaigning to win votes.

The officer said the government would gain the upper hand if it could prolong its tenure, largely because tens of billion of baht in the state budget were being disbursed to constituencies nationwide."

I think people are smart enough to see through offers lacking sincerity and honesty. I hope a genuine equitable bilateral solution can be reached.

The red leaders have insisted on dissolving the government in 15 days and having elections. Have they stated anywhere what they plan to do IF they win elections?

edit: except on stage or red tv where they have stated that they'll bring back Thaksin.

This is all about bringing back Thaksin and nothing else. Some people just refuse to see it that way.

Cheers, Rick

[animatic]

Consider Thaksin is the bad guy.

But it is the fact that the current government raised to power because of a demonstration...

Sorry no that is NOT a fact.

There were TWO governments put in place via domestic voting PRIOR to this current government.

When this coalition was formed there WAS NO demonstration nor airport take over happening.

This government was installed by the same process as the one before it.

No difference except the leading players changed.

Stop buying into the propaganda lie that is the basis of this coming riot situation.

Look, I am not a supporter of Thaksin (if I did, my Thai friends would kill me because they hate Thaksin )

However, if Abhisit came to power NOT because of the demonstration, then what was the purpose of PAD demonstration?

I think that politicians are the same in every country, they see where the wind blows and take their position accordingly.

To remove the Thaksin control of the government without his being subject to checks and balances.

And to bring to the light of day his crimes against the people of Thailand while in office,

that his suborning of the checks and balances prevented being seen and prosecuted.

Later to remove his 'control without accountability' through the acknowledged puppets Samak and Somchai.

We can see to this day how he tries to control things in Thailand,

without ANY semblance of right to do so. And without a care for

any who get injured in his quest for a return to power.

[bacchanal]

so, rainman, what do you really have to offer?

just say it. who'll lead thailand into new century?

It would have to be someone youthful and full of ambition.

Prime Minister Oak?

[Siripon]

Even if the reds ultimately lose their battle to force house dissolution, it was a master stroke to move to Rajprasong intersection. Made it easier for their supporters to go shopping and travel around the city centre.

use the toilet and take a bath inside malls and nearby hotels. but isn't that the malls are closed and aren't letting the protesters in?

The Amarin hotel at Pratu Nam is owned by Phongthep Thepkanchana or his wife. Phongthep is a close friend of Thaksin.

[mca]

All season well sheltered (no more rally in the rain). Excellent covered parking with connecting walkway. Good toilets. 100% airconditioned. Free electricity and Water. Even 1st class longe access for ROP membesr.

7000 baht per month including 60 pieces of laundry. No DSS

[jdinasia]

Rick, could you show me in writing where the current government has agreed to free and open elections and what the time table is for the elections are? I guess it's possible I missed that news.

It was part of the televised negotiations with the Reds. Reds demanded he dissolve the government in 15 days. He offered 9 months and explained why he needed 9 months. Rather than negotiate with Abhisit for something shorter (like 6 months or 3 months), the Reds instead said they would only accept 15 days.

So the reds had a chance to get Abhisit out in 9 months, and if they had negotiated probably even sooner than that. Instead they refused to negotiate or budge on their 15 day demand.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30125988.html

The early timeline is even supported by other members of the current governing coalition.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Coali...o-30126013.html

After having read everything it doesn't seem to be a clear cut as you make it out to be. In the first place you have to remember he's asking for (9) nine months on top of the (48 Months) four years he's already had since the coup. After the coup the current government promised free elections in one year. Yes elections were held not in one year but in Dec 2007 with everyone in TRT prevented from running for 5 years. I think nine months is unreasonable and I don't think anyone knows, yourself included, if Abhisits' offer was an "all or nothing" offer in an attempt to try to make the Red Shirts look unreasonable. If It was then it sounds to me like the current government is just buying time and not sincere, as one Thai military officer stated, in the Nation article that you provided the URL for.

"A senior military officer said the two rounds of talks showed both sides were insincere about resolving the conflict, as they seemed to have engaged in on-air political campaigning to win votes.

The officer said the government would gain the upper hand if it could prolong its tenure, largely because tens of billion of baht in the state budget were being disbursed to constituencies nationwide."

I think people are smart enough to see through offers lacking sincerity and honesty. I hope a genuine equitable bilateral solution can be reached.

I don't think you have gotten any facts in a post correct yet .... Abhisit hasn't been in office 48 months. Abhisit was elected by parliament about 14 months ago. PPP had 2 governments seated before that. You really should get the basics down before screaming out the red line.

[TAWP]

However, if Abhisit came to power NOT because of the demonstration, then what was the purpose of PAD demonstration?

To keep the government's focus on something else than their openly spoken intention to whitewash Thaksin and banned TRT members crimes and bring back a tyrant.

And due to PPP being inept at being in power, as they were a party filled with mostly useless politicians, it worked splendidly. They where occupied until the courts finished their ruling and then we know the rest.