How To Deal With Poor Workmanship?

[ubonrthai]

I'm having a kitchen built and the details of the work are pretty bad. Tiles aren't straight, missing grout, unsighlty wires zigzagging around with ugly plastic covers over them and other small details. Definitely not what they drew up when we first had it designed. Cabinets aren't level by up to 1.5cm enough to be seen with the naked eye. The work is contracted with Home Hub. I don't want to be super picky, but this is just plain crappy work. In the U.S. I'd just go to the contractor/store, complain, and probably get results but I'm guessing that doesn't work so well in Thailand.

I haven't paid for all of it yet. Do I go in and complain as an upset customer or will that just get me nowhere? It's really going to take quite a bit of rework to fix it and the current workers definitely aren't capable of doing it. Any advice?

[dfp]

Very little help in complaining. I had a patio made. Perfect design, but lousy execution, hopeless workers/workmanship. Now I have another contractor improving the work.

[Boo]

If you don't complain then how will you know whether it will be pointless or not. You bought a product, the product isn't up to scratch. Take photos & go see the store. Tell them the work is unacceptable & until it is rectified to the standard expected you wont be paying the final bill. Quite simple really but don't go in all guns blazing just explain it isn't acceptable & see what they do. Take someone who can translate for you (unless you speak fluent thai)

[maccaroni man]

If you don't complain then how will you know whether it will be pointless or not. You bought a product, the product isn't up to scratch. Take photos & go see the store. Tell them the work is unacceptable & until it is rectified to the standard expected you wont be paying the final bill. Quite simple really but don't go in all guns blazing just explain it isn't acceptable & see what they do. Take someone who can translate for you (unless you speak fluent thai)

agreed stay calm but stay firm, no payment until it is corrected to your satisfaction.

[ubonrthai]

To be honest, you must find a fitter by word of mouth. Don't matter how big the business your dealing with they will find the cheapest guy so they make some money out of you.

Live and learn I guess. Most the mistakes I probably won't notice in a month anyway. Chalk it up to my own poor judgment.

They sent a guy out tonight. He agrees it's not great and is going to talk to the workers I guess. We'll see what happens... Could you PM me info about the guy you know who does good work? I've got a few other household things that I can't do. Thanks!

[MarcoH]

To be honest, you must find a fitter by word of mouth. Don't matter how big the business your dealing with they will find the cheapest guy so they make some money out of you.

Live and learn I guess. Most the mistakes I probably won't notice in a month anyway. Chalk it up to my own poor judgment.

They sent a guy out tonight. He agrees it's not great and is going to talk to the workers I guess. We'll see what happens... Could you PM me info about the guy you know who does good work? I've got a few other household things that I can't do. Thanks!

It's one of those things in Ubon,,i build my house back in -96 and got so much bad work already then by Thanin land and House company and i have heard similar things' even now from the same company and farang customer who hire them,,, so some thing's never change in here,,,BUT is for my BIG head i did complain and got all sorted out as i wanted since they do want your money they will do it, but they will show you in they face that you are the bad guy here as you make them do too nice work...

In Ubon there is lot's of good craftmans but porblem is how to find them and whn they realiced that one farang recomend them to next and next,, price will sky high very soon.

If you get locals to do, you must be there whole time when they doing it and make sure that EVERY part what they want to start they have to ask you first,, i know TONS of work and lot's of headche,but it's your house\condo and you have to live in there for long time,,also if you have Wife\GF they will preasure her to make you talk less and want to deal with your GF\Wife only cos she is(Hopefully not) easier to accept they job.

I have learnd(This is my experience) that make your stand from the begining and play rules for them and making the contract with dead line and quality included in the contract is the best way, even now day there is few farang house owners who has taken legal actions agains companies and have not payed they final payment and in 1 case so far, company has agreed to rectify the faulty work and did so as well.

My thai cousin si building house as we speek and with thai local workers and they are behing scedule so he told them that if they dont finish as per contract they will have to leave and they will not get payed, so i have seen that work force has increased and work will be done on time.

Also one farang has Deadline and over time fee in they contract and that makes wok much more efficiant

what ever you do in Ubon, make sure they know who wearing the "Pants" and who is incharge.

like i said, this is only what I have learned, every one is different and has different aproach to things

[torrenova]

Also, make sure that your Thai speaker is just doing the translating, not doing the thinking. If she cannot do that job and only that job, you are on a hiding to nothing as they will push her to make a compromise where you do not want one.

[richard_smith237]

You haven't paid for it all yet?... how much are you prepared to loose, Kick them out and refuse to pay the rest. Speak to their boss, send him photos, and tell him you are not paying, that you'll have to take all the work down and start from the beginning - Do Not use this company any longer, they have proven themselves to be useless.

You did the right thing by not paying everything until completion? much deposit ?

I had a similar issue in my apartment. luckily we weren't asked for a deposit. The contractor was two weeks late to install some inbuilt furniture. They came round, measured up, sent the designs, we approved them - then the delays... a promise of 1 week, turned into two weeks. We'd agreed another deadline.

They promised they'd turn up on Friday, they didn't, then saturday, they didn't

It was re-agreed that they would come on the following Monday morning by 9am to fit the built in furnature.

We called them at 9am - on their way (nearby 5mins away) . We called them at 10am, still on their way (nearby 5mins away, same place), we called then at 10:30am, still on their way - We told them to cancel and that we no longer required them to do the work.

Their boss called up straight away and we told him we do not wish to use a company that lies to us. He pointed out that the built in had already been made and was ready for delivery - We pointed out that we'd set a deadline which they agreed to for a reason (overseas guests arriving PM on the Monday) so it was a no go and we were annoyed at their time wasting, they were annoyed that it had cost them money.

After the departure of our guests we employed another contractor (recommended by word of mouth) who has done an excellent job (and was cheaper than the original contractors).

Conclusions:

1) Never pay in advance.

2) If you have to, pay the smallest deposit they'll accept.

3) If you have any doubts - get rid of them. Professionals will do good work and keep you satisfied.

4) Use only those contractors people you trust have recommended highly.

Edited April 8, 2010 by richard_smith237

[Jonathanpattaya]

You haven't paid for it all yet?... how much are you prepared to loose, Kick them out and refuse to pay the rest. Speak to their boss, send him photos, and tell him you are not paying, that you'll have to take all the work down and start from the beginning - Do Not use this company any longer, they have proven themselves to be useless.

You did the right thing by not paying everything until completion? much deposit ?

I had a similar issue in my apartment. luckily we weren't asked for a deposit. The contractor was two weeks late to install some inbuilt furniture. They came round, measured up, sent the designs, we approved them - then the delays... a promise of 1 week, turned into two weeks. We'd agreed another deadline.

They promised they'd turn up on Friday, they didn't, then saturday, they didn't

It was re-agreed that they would come on the following Monday morning by 9am to fit the built in furnature.

We called them at 9am - on their way (nearby 5mins away) . We called them at 10am, still on their way (nearby 5mins away, same place), we called then at 10:30am, still on their way - We told them to cancel and that we no longer required them to do the work.

Their boss called up straight away and we told him we do not wish to use a company that lies to us. He pointed out that the built in had already been made and was ready for delivery - We pointed out that we'd set a deadline which they agreed to for a reason (overseas guests arriving PM on the Monday) so it was a no go and we were annoyed at their time wasting, they were annoyed that it had cost them money.

After the departure of our guests we employed another contractor (recommended by word of mouth) who has done an excellent job (and was cheaper than the original contractors).

Conclusions:

1) Never pay in advance.

2) If you have to, pay the smallest deposit they'll accept.

3) If you have any doubts - get rid of them. Professionals will do good work and keep you satisfied.

4) Use only those contractors people you trust have recommended highly.

5) Watch the contractor do the work and make corrections at the time. Complaining later is usually met with blank looks.

[Dave the Dude]

Conclusions:

1) Never pay in advance.

2) If you have to, pay the smallest deposit they'll accept.

3) If you have any doubts - get rid of them. Professionals will do good work and keep you satisfied.

4) Use only those contractors people you trust have recommended highly

5) Watch the contractor do the work and make corrections at the time. Complaining later is usually met with blank looks.

I would add

6) Get FIRST HAND recommendations from people you trust, not your wives, aunts, first brother removed, cleaners husband (who just happens to be a ...........(pick a job)for the rest of the year)

Edited April 8, 2010 by Dave the Dude

[taurus8]

since you have not paid for all, just go to them and show them what you think is wrong and ask to do it as you requested. Then,when you satisfied, pay. and maybe find a better contractor,for the next job.

[ubonrthai]

Just thought I'd give an update. 3 different "changs" have come out to try and fix things. It's looking a little better than before but not very good. At least the tiles aren't terribly crooked anymore. We're "negotiating" the final payment. One thing I know for sure, I won't be making this mistake again and definitely won't be purchasing from Home Hub unless I have to. Speaking of hardware stores, Do Home has been willing to beat every single competitors price I've shown them when buying various items. They'll negotiate on everything. Great place.

[phibunmike]

5) Watch the contractor do the work and make corrections at the time. Complaining later is usually met with blank looks.

Perhaps it's a bit late but this really is the best advice. You need to be on site all the time, watching, and asking for changes before the concrete/glue/paint dries.

[Dave the Dude]

5) Watch the contractor do the work and make corrections at the time. Complaining later is usually met with blank looks.

Perhaps it's a bit late but this really is the best advice. You need to be on site all the time, watching, and asking for changes before the concrete/glue/paint dries.

True, but good Project Management works on the PPPPPP theory

(Planning and Preperation Prevents P!ss Poor Performance)

Edited April 22, 2010 by Dave the Dude

[ubonrthai]

I wasn't going to complain anymore but I can't resist this one. After not showing up at 8am yesterday as scheduled and ignoring phone calls, they showed up unexpectedly at 8pm last night. This morning at 10 we get a phone call "can we borrow 3,000b to fix our car?" *sigh*

[ubonrthai]

I talked to an engineer today who says the owners of Do Home and Home Hub are brothers competing against each other. I'd say the brother who runs Do Home is winning by a long shot. Stay away from Home Hub!

[longstebe]

I had my house built not so long ago, like one of the guys said, be firm with them.

We had made the guys make some changes and other things went overlooked.

Most of us are perfectionists compared with the Thai's.

[consnabit]

Jump up and down and scream in English using gross profanity. Severely chastise the hapless transgressors on quality workmanship, and by all means furnish the required quantity of Thai whiskey as a reward for being falang careful with all that important stuff. Ah my house is near finished. Not a straight line to be found, not a plumb post, not a tight door or window, but it suway mach mach to me. The brothers-in -law love me as they made a ton on this job.

[Dave the Dude]

Jump up and down and scream in English using gross profanity. Severely chastise the hapless transgressors on quality workmanship, and by all means furnish the required quantity of Thai whiskey as a reward for being falang careful with all that important stuff. Ah my house is near finished. Not a straight line to be found, not a plumb post, not a tight door or window, but it suway mach mach to me. The brothers-in -law love me as they made a ton on this job.

See you in the D.I.Y. section

[Jocky]

Having work done you have to pretty much stand over them or hire a decent project manager to make sure of quality.

You should always hold an agreed amount of money back for snagging issues until your satisfied.

[torrenova]

...........Most of us are perfectionists compared with the Thai's.

No, they are just piss poor at workmanship and don't give a shit.

That and the fact that they will never say "no" they don't understand.

A lesson learned long ago in dealing with my Thai staff. I tell one what I want her to do and she is nodding and saying yes. I ask her if she understands what I want her to do. She affirms that she does. I then ask her to tell me what I have just asked her to do and which she has agreed she understands. She replies to me "I not know boss".

[barky]

5) Watch the contractor do the work and make corrections at the time. Complaining later is usually met with blank looks.

Perhaps it's a bit late but this really is the best advice. You need to be on site all the time, watching, and asking for changes before the concrete/glue/paint dries.

I third this statement.

Unless you have a highly recommended and respected contractor where from time to time you can allow them some periods of non-supervision, you absolutely have to stay home and watch them like a hawke and question everything you see as a potential problem.

A case in point, about 18 months ago, I had among other things, 120 sq/m of Italian floor tiles laid. The contractor had been working on and off in my house for about 6 weeks. When it came time to lay the tiles I gave them strict instructions on the fact I didn't want a pattern. I wanted them layed at random. Guess what, I had left them for about 3 hours, came home to find 75% of the master bedroom layed. Great? No! It was in a pattern. So, I just simply asked that they lift them all up and start again. And, they did.

Watch them and ask questions and tell them firmly and directly if your're not happy and you want things fixed/changed.

Good luck.

[barky]

...........Most of us are perfectionists compared with the Thai's.

No, they are just piss poor at workmanship and don't give a shit.

That and the fact that they will never say "no" they don't understand.

A lesson learned long ago in dealing with my Thai staff. I tell one what I want her to do and she is nodding and saying yes. I ask her if she understands what I want her to do. She affirms that she does. I then ask her to tell me what I have just asked her to do and which she has agreed she understands. She replies to me "I not know boss".

Yes TN you're absolutely correct. I experience this situation 90% of the time dealing with the locals here.

In fact I learnt long long ago to assume they have scant clue about your instructions.