What Do You Want Pm Abhisit To Do Now?

[Jerrytheyoung]

The Past is the Past ...

It is obvious that things have changed a lot since Saturday. We are now in a very serious situation.

Red Shirts who are still in Bangkok are decided people: now they struggle for themselves, forget about Thaksin, the conflict is an other level far more critical.

They will not move from their positions until they have a satisfactory proposal.

If Army intervenes a new time or if there is a Coup, risks are HUGE that inside Army there will be important dissonances and this is a key for a possible adventure about which nobody can predict the issue.

. immediate elections = announced butchery

A transition Government of National Unity is the only peaceful solution.

Abhisit should prepare his resignation and leave as a Gentleman on his own, before other(s) will oblige to do it. It will be more presentable in History.

[Ponbkk]

Do we need to wait until Abhissit proposes immediate dissolution in return for the Red Shirts to leave Bangkok in order to see that the Red Shirts plan to stay and continue their BULLYING of EVERYONE through the elections and the installation of their new government? And then what?

Abhissit needs to request a truce throughout Songkran that the red shirts will not violate the ISA or Emergency decree and risk violence or more damage to the tourist industry. 

Why shouldn't Central World get compensation for their losses as tourists will get compensation through the insurance scam? (er, "scheme")?

The damage caused by the occupation of Rajrapong intersection has gone as far as it can.

WAIT them out. Stop with this sillyness of giving in to the protesters.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Do we need to wait until Abhissit proposes immediate dissolution in return for the Red Shirts to leave Bangkok in order to see that the Red Shirts plan to stay and continue their BULLYING of EVERYONE through the elections and the installation of their new government? And then what?

Abhissit needs to request a truce throughout Songkran that the red shirts will not violate the ISA or Emergency decree and risk violence or more damage to the tourist industry. 

Why shouldn't Central World get compensation for their losses as tourists will get compensation through the insurance scam? (er, "scheme")?

The damage caused by the occupation of Rajrapong intersection has gone as far as it can.

WAIT them out. Stop with this sillyness of giving in to the protesters.

We are now n History, your claims are insignificant in front of the situation. Take Altitude. it is no more a protest....

[ChiangMaiFun]

Abisit should surrender himself to the police and stand trial for the murder of civilians.

Absolutely agree. So many people warned him pull back troops in the evening and start again morning day after.

He didnt. .. Not because he wanted to enforce the law.

He was just 'try' to show a bold move to publicity after being so humiliated again & again by the Reds.

His decision was not based on morality. It was THE biggest mistake for him to care his own image more than civilians' life !!!!!

Abhisit must stand trail for this incident.

Lots of Thais, especially Reds (50% of country - no bias ), will never forgive him.

He gave no orders to shoot or kill civilians.

He gave no orders other than clear our the illegal occupiers of public land.

If the occupiers chose to fight against a lawful order to disperse, it is

a ) their individual discretion and responsibility

b ) the leaders responsibilities for not pulling them back.

c ) if this be insurrection to "create a new state" as Veera and Jatuporn and Arisman have ALL stated,

then those going into harms way have them selves to blame.

And Abhisit has a responsibility to not allow a mob to take over the country,

no matter how heartfelt or altruistic SOME of the members may be.

You can spout the red party line all you want, wiser minds see through it as the propaganda effort it is.

This red group is not about actual democracy, but acquiring raw naked power.

Nothing more nothing less.

Lovely paragraphing... so neat and tridy!

Abhisit had the opportunity (now gone) to settle this by announcing elections... he did not... and what happened? he banned the one place the reds could let off steam - a foolish error of judgement and the spark that ignited the powder keg.

'wiser minds' is a matter of opinion... by the way... elections are on the way - a victory for the reds but what a price to pay! very sad that the government has so mis-read the national mood.

[way2muchcoffee]

Abisit should surrender himself to the police and stand trial for the murder of civilians.

Absolutely agree. So many people warned him pull back troops in the evening and start again morning day after.

He didnt. .. Not because he wanted to enforce the law.

He was just 'try' to show a bold move to publicity after being so humiliated again & again by the Reds.

His decision was not based on morality. It was THE biggest mistake for him to care his own image more than civilians' life !!!!!

Abhisit must stand trail for this incident.

Lots of Thais, especially Reds (50% of country - no bias ), will never forgive him.

He gave no orders to shoot or kill civilians.

He gave no orders other than clear our the illegal occupiers of public land.

If the occupiers chose to fight against a lawful order to disperse, it is

a ) their individual discretion and responsibility

b ) the leaders responsibilities for not pulling them back.

c ) if this be insurrection to "create a new state" as Veera and Jatuporn and Arisman have ALL stated,

then those going into harms way have them selves to blame.

And Abhisit has a responsibility to not allow a mob to take over the country,

no matter how heartfelt or altruistic SOME of the members may be.

You can spout the red party line all you want, wiser minds see through it as the propaganda effort it is.

This red group is not about actual democracy, but acquiring raw naked power.

Nothing more nothing less.

Lovely paragraphing... so neat and tridy!

Abhisit had the opportunity (now gone) to settle this by announcing elections... he did not... and what happened? he banned the one place the reds could let off steam - a foolish error of judgement and the spark that ignited the powder keg.

'wiser minds' is a matter of opinion... by the way... elections are on the way - a victory for the reds but what a price to pay! very sad that the government has so mis-read the national mood.

Not true. The demonstrators were repeatedly informed that they could protest legally around Democracy Monument. They refused, instead insisting to move over to Rachprasong and shutting down the Central Business District of Thailand. But it has moved well past this point now. All sides to be at fault to some degree or other. We will all naturally assign blame in proportions that consistent with our beliefs. That is okay. What is important now is to find a workable compromise so that the country can move forward.

Edited April 12, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[shrekroma]

Let's chill a little bit. Get some facts then this discussion can move on.

Reds are innocent. This group are purely citizens.

Red- allied Militia are not. Who are they ? Pretty much every group that doesn't get along with current gov.

Thai army today is deeply divided. No surprise if some join Reds. They will not disclose themself though.

Left-wing Reds sent signal so strong that they will not back off easily.

M79 ( bomb ) did drop straight to generals, high rank officers. They were severely injured. Most of them leaded operation crushing Reds last Apr.

This is the main reason why abhisit-elite army retreated.

What you see if just the beginning of war.

There is so much at stake to win or lose.

Expect more bombs.

.....

[Insight]

Red- allied Militia are not. Who are they ? Pretty much every group that doesn't get along with current gov.

Thai army today is deeply divided. No surprise if some join Reds. They will not disclose themself though.

I don't believe you about the army. The militia is under control of Sah Daeng (who has been very vocal about his opposition). How big it is remains to be seen, but I highly doubt he won any more friends during the weekend.

[xminator]

Abhisit should NOT dissolve the parliament. He should step down. Today. And announce that a new government including all political parties would take its place. It would be natural that Abhisit himself would be part of such a government, but that would be part of negotiations. Red carded Suthep should NOT be part of any government for the duration of his ban.

Who could lead such a government? It would have to be a MP as PM as required by law. Maybe one of the minor parties. This solution might be enough to persuade the redshirts to step down. Even more if promises of a swifter approach to certain legal procedings against the airport occupation and the 200 million gift received by the Democrats. Throw in a timetable for negotiations on charter ammendments, or just leave it to the victors of the next general elections, and we might see half a year of relative peace in Thailand.

[shrekroma]

Red- allied Militia are not. Who are they ? Pretty much every group that doesn't get along with current gov.

Thai army today is deeply divided. No surprise if some join Reds. They will not disclose themself though.

I don't believe you about the army. The militia is under control of Sah Daeng (who has been very vocal about his opposition). How big it is remains to be seen, but I highly doubt he won any more friends during the weekend.

If you watch only 3,5,7,9,11, you'll only see private got hurt.

If you listen to Reds, gets some fact such as picture, clip etc. You'll see Red militia is teaming up quite well.

Havn't you ever wondered why M79 was going everywhere across the city and Gov can do nothing ?

Why Reds seized Thaicom station so easily ? Why Reds took over weapons from soldiers easily ?

500 M16, 100 C4, 20 machine guns. Reds show on their stage. If you take a look at them. You'l see this is not only about democracy shit.

There is sth going on under the army.

Apr 10, 4PM. A group of soldiers running 2 cars, packed with bunch of weapons, drove to Rama IV bridge and just let Reds surrounded and surrendered intentionly few min later.

This news was reported clearly via PTV. All reds saw it. They knew they were not alone in this battle.

This is why Reds will fight til death.

Sae-dang is more of a Red militia spokeman. He is no harm. The persons behind him instead, carrying unknown weapon.

[way2muchcoffee]

Red- allied Militia are not. Who are they ? Pretty much every group that doesn't get along with current gov.

Thai army today is deeply divided. No surprise if some join Reds. They will not disclose themself though.

I don't believe you about the army. The militia is under control of Sah Daeng (who has been very vocal about his opposition). How big it is remains to be seen, but I highly doubt he won any more friends during the weekend.

If you watch only 3,5,7,9,11, you'll only see private got hurt.

If you listen to Reds, gets some fact such as picture, clip etc. You'll see Red militia is teaming up quite well.

Havn't you ever wondered why M79 was going everywhere across the city and Gov can do nothing ?

Why Reds seized Thaicom station so easily ? Why Reds took over weapons from soldiers easily ?

500 M16, 100 C4, 20 machine guns. Reds show on their stage. If you take a look at them. You'l see this is not only about democracy shit.

There is sth going on under the army.

Apr 10, 4PM. A group of soldiers running 2 cars, packed with bunch of weapons, drove to Rama IV bridge and just let Reds surrounded and surrendered intentionly few min later.

This news was reported clearly via PTV. All reds saw it. They knew they were not alone in this battle.

This is why Reds will fight til death.

Sae-dang is more of a Red militia spokeman. He is no harm. The persons behind him instead, carrying unknown weapon.

Respectfully, I believe you are seriously mistaken. Sae Daeng is a very dangerous and violent man. To minimize his possible contribution to the events on Saturday is foolish.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Let's chill a little bit. Get some facts then this discussion can move on.

Reds are innocent. This group are purely citizens.

Red- allied Militia are not. Who are they ? Pretty much every group that doesn't get along with current gov.

Thai army today is deeply divided. No surprise if some join Reds. They will not disclose themself though.

Left-wing Reds sent signal so strong that they will not back off easily.

M79 ( bomb ) did drop straight to generals, high rank officers. They were severely injured. Most of them leaded operation crushing Reds last Apr.

This is the main reason why abhisit-elite army retreated.

What you see if just the beginning of war.

There is so much at stake to win or lose.

Expect more bombs.

.....

We expect it will not be the war. Anupong has just says: it is a politic issue and Army will not interfere. He has called for dissolution of parliament.

it is a good point than Army sidelines itself. It reduces a little the tension.

I hope than in the revision of the Charter Army will be discharged of Civil Affairs, an anti Riot Force created, I do expect they have learnt the lesson.

However the situation is not yet over. Abhisit has to resign and let a Government of National Unity operates the period up to Elections. If not the Campaign is going to be a butchery between Yellow and Red Shirts.

Think ahead for the PEACE and no more for bombings.

[animatic]

well, erm, Abhisit is undeniably the prime minister which was put into office after an election where many of the PAD's opponents were banned form running and after weeks of shady and cheesy maneuvers to form a coalition, which probably involved bribing red MPs to join the democrat's coalition ranks.

I don't know if bribing MPs to change allegiances is a crime in Thailand, and maybe it doesn't make Abhisit's nomination illegal, so he may well be legitimate but at least his representativity is debatable..

If your logic does apply,

then Thaksin, Samak and Somchai are equaly guilty of the same crime.

Buying the allegiances of small parties is S.O.P. in Thai politics.

These same parties and same party power brokers changes allegiances, for the SAME reasons,

to join Thaksin's TRT.. when they change BACK then there is a hypocritical howl for their heads.

Whining about that from the losing side is typical, but no less hypocritical.

When Thaksin did, Abhisit accused him of vote manipulation.

Later he found the better way. Getting military to back him up.

Abhisit is no longer a good politicant. He only thinks about himself just like other corrupted dictator.

Screw Reds. I'll stay in office as long as I want to.

Because the law says I can do. Then I'll do it. Get the point ?!

Dont mess with me or else I'll use M16 1!!!!!!1

In reality it was likely just the opposite. The army did it's thing

against Thaksin's malfeasance in office.and paved the way.

Regardless Abhist was put in legally,

and the army is SUPPOSED to protect the legal government in office.

As long as the government is protecting the WHOLE country

and not just it's vested interests as Thaksin was.

And either way the MOB in the street can not be allowed to win,

because that will bring anarchy and more death than stopping the insurrection now.

And make no mistake, this has moved into insurrection and foothills of civil war.

The reds directed bt Thaksin started it.

Edited April 12, 2010 by animatic

[ChiangMaiFun]

Let's chill a little bit. Get some facts then this discussion can move on.

Reds are innocent. This group are purely citizens.

Red- allied Militia are not. Who are they ? Pretty much every group that doesn't get along with current gov.

Thai army today is deeply divided. No surprise if some join Reds. They will not disclose themself though.

Left-wing Reds sent signal so strong that they will not back off easily.

M79 ( bomb ) did drop straight to generals, high rank officers. They were severely injured. Most of them leaded operation crushing Reds last Apr.

This is the main reason why abhisit-elite army retreated.

What you see if just the beginning of war.

There is so much at stake to win or lose.

Expect more bombs.

.....

We expect it will not be the war. Anupong has just says: it is a politic issue and Army will not interfere. He has called for dissolution of parliament.

it is a good point than Army sidelines itself. It reduces a little the tension.

I hope than in the revision of the Charter Army will be discharged of Civil Affairs, an anti Riot Force created, I do expect they have learnt the lesson.

However the situation is not yet over. Abhisit has to resign and let a Government of National Unity operates the period up to Elections. If not the Campaign is going to be a butchery between Yellow and Red Shirts.

Think ahead for the PEACE and no more for bombings.

It’s inevitable...announce a roadmap and avoid more deaths - maybe a GNU might work IF a neutral figure could lead it

[ozzieman05]

Abisit should surrender himself to the police and stand trial for the murder of civilians.

Absolutely agree. So many people warned him pull back troops in the evening and start again morning day after.

He didnt. .. Not because he wanted to enforce the law.

He was just 'try' to show a bold move to publicity after being so humiliated again & again by the Reds.

His decision was not based on morality. It was THE biggest mistake for him to care his own image more than civilians' life !!!!!

Abhisit must stand trail for this incident.

Winston Churchill should have stood trial for murder

stood have stood tril for murder

all those people who dies fighting Germany

And the US President also

and what about Vietnam

and Iraq

infact any one who makes the hard decisions that have to be made

trial for them all

We should allow all the thugs to run the world

How do you people sleep at night

Lots of Thais, especially Reds (50% of country - no bias ), will never forgive him.

[ozzieman05]

Abisit should surrender himself to the police and stand trial for the murder of civilians.

Absolutely agree. So many people warned him pull back troops in the evening and start again morning day after.

He didnt. .. Not because he wanted to enforce the law.

He was just 'try' to show a bold move to publicity after being so humiliated again & again by the Reds.

His decision was not based on morality. It was THE biggest mistake for him to care his own image more than civilians' life !!!!!

Abhisit must stand trail for this incident.

Lots of Thais, especially Reds (50% of country - no bias ), will never forgive him.

He gave no orders to shoot or kill civilians.

He gave no orders other than clear our the illegal occupiers of public land.

If the occupiers chose to fight against a lawful order to disperse, it is

a ) their individual discretion and responsibility

b ) the leaders responsibilities for not pulling them back.

c ) if this be insurrection to "create a new state" as Veera and Jatuporn and Arisman have ALL stated,

then those going into harms way have them selves to blame.

And Abhisit has a responsibility to not allow a mob to take over the country,

no matter how heartfelt or altruistic SOME of the members may be.

You can spout the red party line all you want, wiser minds see through it as the propaganda effort it is.

This red group is not about actual democracy, but acquiring raw naked power.

Nothing more nothing less.

Lovely paragraphing... so neat and tridy!

Abhisit had the opportunity (now gone) to settle this by announcing elections... he did not... and what happened? he banned the one place the reds could let off steam - a foolish error of judgement and the spark that ignited the powder keg.

'wiser minds' is a matter of opinion... by the way... elections are on the way - a victory for the reds but what a price to pay! very sad that the government has so mis-read the national mood.

Where have you been

The PM did call new elections

what you mean is the PM would not sit and beg

Please join the red shirts in the from lines and show us you really believe what your saying

To comfortable sitting at home playing with others lives I bet

Yellow has 2 meanings it seems

[Sunderland]

As you like your stats and polls so much, here is one today from the other English language newspaper in Thailand.

Should Abhisit step down?

71.3% of 3,880 votes so far say yes.

28.7% say no

Bear in mind that there is nothing to prevent you from voting more than once. However, nobody is offering money for your vote either.

[siampolee]

ANTONY: ( Red Shirt Brigade)

Blood and destruction shall be so in use

And dreadful objects so familiar

That mothers shall but smile when they behold

Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war;

All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:

And Caesar's (Thaksins) spirit, ranging for revenge,

With Ate by his side come hot from hel_l,

Shall in these confines with a Jutaporns voice

Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;

That this foul deed shall smell above the earth

With carrion men, groaning for burial.

[shrekroma]

Sae Daeng is a very dangerous and violent man. To minimize his possible contribution to the events on Saturday is foolish.

So what ?? What's your point. Are you saying arrest Sae-dang and the violence will be over !?

Sae-dang is just 'one of Red militia'.

He alone isn't capable managing all this.

You must be ultra silly to think Sae-dang is the head of Red militia.

FYI, sae-dang has warrant(s) hang over his head. Nobody try to arrest him. why ?

Because the gov & army know the person(s) behind him are indeed the one who sparked violence.

Even the Reds dont see how sae-dang can help them.

He's one of NATO clan - no action talk only !!!

[siampolee]

The big players are out of sight and saying nothing.

One wonders why, one wonders who and what for ?

Or perhaps we do know but are afraid to speak lest we are marked for vengeance.

This a struggle for a nation and its people, sadly the people are the pawns and the losers in this power struggle whatever social strata they belong to.

[ChiangMaiFun]

'wiser minds' is a matter of opinion... by the way... elections are on the way - a victory for the reds but what a price to pay! very sad that the government has so mis-read the national mood.

Where have you been

The PM did call new elections

what you mean is the PM would not sit and beg

Please join the red shirts in the from lines and show us you really believe what your saying

To comfortable sitting at home playing with others lives I bet

Yellow has 2 meanings it seems

I have been following this closely - the PM intimated there 'may be' elections but no DATE - just waffle and rhetoric - but don't worry - he will be forced to hold them soon - maybe he can come out of his handlers Army 'home' and tell us when before anymore people die

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

So IF he dissolves parliament and calls snap elections, what will happen? The reds/PTP likely win. And then? Cue "PAD"..... Bangkok's streets will be filled with yellows and the whole circus starts from zero.

My guess is that a good many of the reds will go home, hand the red t-shirts to their wives for laundry, grab the yellow t-shirts from the cabinet and head back to Bangkok - "professional protester" at 200 Baht per day sure beats farming, no? And it doesn't matter who they protest against as long as they get paid to do it (same with vote buying, they don't give a hoot who they vote for as long as they get paid for it).

If it happens like i just wrote, i hope the yellows remember where they got their success from last time and head straight for those two locations. Saves time and lives. And once THEY win obviously it will be time to change the t-shirts once again, so prepare, Bangkokians, for mob rule over the next few years.

Or..... something involving tanks and guys in uniform happens, THEN we can have peace. Looks like pretty much the only way to have peace.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[retarius]

resign immediately, dissolve parliament

[rixalex]

Hi.

So IF he dissolves parliament and calls snap elections, what will happen? The reds/PTP likely win. And then? Cue "PAD"..... Bangkok's streets will be filled with yellows and the whole circus starts from zero.

My guess is that a good many of the reds will go home, hand the red t-shirts to their wives for laundry, grab the yellow t-shirts from the cabinet and head back to Bangkok - "professional protester" at 200 Baht per day sure beats farming, no? And it doesn't matter who they protest against as long as they get paid to do it (same with vote buying, they don't give a hoot who they vote for as long as they get paid for it).

If it happens like i just wrote, i hope the yellows remember where they got their success from last time and head straight for those two locations. Saves time and lives. And once THEY win obviously it will be time to change the t-shirts once again, so prepare, Bangkokians, for mob rule over the next few years.

Or..... something involving tanks and guys in uniform happens, THEN we can have peace. Looks like pretty much the only way to have peace.

Best regards.....

Thanh

Thanh, i agree with the main jist of your post, about the cyclic nature of all of this, and the consequences that there will be of giving in to the demands of street mobs, but disagree with the bit about the reds/PTP winning. In my opinion and the way things stand, i don't think any one party will garner sufficient votes to win a majority - in fact i'd bet your house on it!

[Fishbucket]

Abisit should come out and explain why he escalated the use of force and censorship against the redshirts peacefull gathering, and why he then chose to send in the armed troops.Specifically Colonel Rambo's squad, who had previous against the reds.

Then he should prone himself at the feet of the deceased redshirts families and beg forgiveness.

Then he should be tried.

[yoshiwara]

Abisit should come out and explain why he escalated the use of force and censorship against the redshirts peacefull gathering, and why he then chose to send in the armed troops.Specifically Colonel Rambo's squad, who had previous against the reds.

Then he should prone himself at the feet of the deceased redshirts families and beg forgiveness.

Then he should be tried.

Not so fast Mr Thaksin cheerleader.

here are the words of France 24

'The shots could have come not from people within the army, but people who randomly shoot to create chaos.

That could point to army veterans, or a particularly hard-core and heavily armed faction of the Red Shirts.'

You wouldn't be just making up words to follow the red line would you?

Oh no.

[kraxlhuber]

> No politic discussions in this Poll thread please.

That's pretty tough given the topic of the poll?

But erm, okay: Pretty hot and humid these days isn't it?

yes,and I have brown spots in my face,the proverbial fan..got hit

[kraxlhuber]

Let's chill a little bit. Get some facts then this discussion can move on.

Reds are innocent. This group are purely citizens.

Red- allied Militia are not. Who are they ? Pretty much every group that doesn't get along with current gov.

Thai army today is deeply divided. No surprise if some join Reds. They will not disclose themself though.

Left-wing Reds sent signal so strong that they will not back off easily.

M79 ( bomb ) did drop straight to generals, high rank officers. They were severely injured. Most of them leaded operation crushing Reds last Apr.

This is the main reason why abhisit-elite army retreated.

What you see if just the beginning of war.

There is so much at stake to win or lose.

Expect more bombs.

.....

We expect it will not be the war. Anupong has just says: it is a politic issue and Army will not interfere. He has called for dissolution of parliament.

it is a good point than Army sidelines itself. It reduces a little the tension.

I hope than in the revision of the Charter Army will be discharged of Civil Affairs, an anti Riot Force created, I do expect they have learnt the lesson.

However the situation is not yet over. Abhisit has to resign and let a Government of National Unity operates the period up to Elections. If not the Campaign is going to be a butchery between Yellow and Red Shirts.

Think ahead for the PEACE and no more for bombings.

let them slug it out,

once and for all,

war and piss

[kraxlhuber]

Abisit should come out and explain why he escalated the use of force and censorship against the redshirts peacefull gathering, and why he then chose to send in the armed troops.Specifically Colonel Rambo's squad, who had previous against the reds.

Then he should prone himself at the feet of the deceased redshirts families and beg forgiveness.

Then he should be tried.

a dead fish starts stinking from his head first,especially a bucket full,

beg forgiveness my foot

[kraxlhuber]

resign immediately, dissolve parliament

how much they pay you a day

[benthai98]

dissolve parliament is the best way to end this protest.

unfortunately the best way to end the illegal protest is surely not the best thing for the country as a whole...