What Do You Want Pm Abhisit To Do Now?

[Publicus]

Dissolve parliament NOW. the situation is out of control,

we do not want more deads ( at the moment 5 persons have

been killed ) nor a coup.

Dissolving the parliament now to have a snap election would throw the country into a spasm of violent Redshirt-Thaksin intimidation and assaults against the electorate and for the destruction of the democratic process and of democracy itself. Thaksin and his Redshirts are frantically desperate to seize control of the government and state power or they will forever be shut out of the picture, hence as we again are witnessing, they will do anything to seize power especially if the violence and force can bring an end to democracy once Thaksin and the do Reds seize power and assure there never will be another election in Thailand. The attitude is that the Redshirt-Thaksin peasants have absolute power but we Thaksin and the Redshirt leaders exercise the power model of government, the disastrous Mao model. Wanting a snap election in the present environment and atmosphere does not define one as a democrat. It defines one as a Redshirt-Thaksin collaborator or fellow traveller.

People are entitled to their own points of view and to advocate, and this is my two cents of it.

[johncitizen]

I want every person who voted for a crackdown to remember it and own it for the rest of their lives.

[Roadman]

At this stage he justs needs to keep doing what he is doing - bust Red ass where it is needed, and it is needed, and have the Armies best elite troops arrest any Red leader warranted for arrest by the courts, at whatever cost - take out their leaders. He's doing fine and pleasing to see the Army backing a government that is proposing elections on a formulated process. And when it is all over remind Thaksin that he still has to serve 2 years jail time...

[Roadman]

I want every person who voted for a crackdown to remember it and own it for the rest of their lives.

I will. Rolling burning gas cyclinders into troops with rubber bullets and water cannon (which are the accepted world wide frenzied mob control method) are the correct response for a crackdown? I think I will remember it more hopefully for the final end of Thaksin and his henchmen and for the Army finally standing up for a government (and agree that there is stench to how the PM got there) that is showing a fair and even hand for all Thai's.

[MellowYellow]

I want every person who voted for a crackdown to remember it and own it for the rest of their lives.

QFT

[mauiguy90]

I want every person who voted for a crackdown to remember it and own it for the rest of their lives.

In a society without democracy, no one is safe...

Edited April 11, 2010 by mauiguy90

[Gary A]

The battle was lost long ago. When the army and police allowed the yellow shirts to take over and loot the government house, that destroyed any respect (fear) people had for the army and police. Allowing the yellow mob to take over the airport opened the door to any other group that wanted to take down the government. It's difficult if not impossible to get tough now.

Parliament must now be dissolved and once a new government is elected put in place and the constitution re-written, it must be understood that this type of thing will never be tolerated again. It's just like the snowball rolling down the hill. The snowball must be broken up before it can grow to a large destructive size. If an elected government doesn't please you, you must wait until the next election to take them out. That's the way democracy works.

[scorecard]

The battle was lost long ago. When the army and police allowed the yellow shirts to take over and loot the government house, that destroyed any respect (fear) people had for the army and police. Allowing the yellow mob to take over the airport opened the door to any other group that wanted to take down the government. It's difficult if not impossible to get tough now.

Parliament must now be dissolved and once a new government is elected put in place and the constitution re-written, it must be understood that this type of thing will never be tolerated again. It's just like the snowball rolling down the hill. The snowball must be broken up before it can grow to a large destructive size. If an elected government doesn't please you, you must wait until the next election to take them out. That's the way democracy works.

Quote from above: "If an elected government doesn't please you, you must wait until the next election to take them out. That's the way democracy works."

Such nice warm words. The reality is that thaksin had already very nethically built a situation whereby any next election would ensure only one possible result - his vistory.

One lesson from all of this is that the constitution does need change, to provide much stronger penalties for vote buying etc, and it needs much stronger provisions which ensure that one person cannot gain such unchallengeable power.

[hardy1943]

Dissolve parliament NOW. the situation is out of control,

we do not want more deads ( at the moment 5 persons have

been killed ) nor a coup.

Dissolving the parliament now to have a snap election would throw the country into a spasm of violent Redshirt-Thaksin intimidation and assaults against the electorate and for the destruction of the democratic process and of democracy itself. Thaksin and his Redshirts are frantically desperate to seize control of the government and state power or they will forever be shut out of the picture, hence as we again are witnessing, they will do anything to seize power especially if the violence and force can bring an end to democracy once Thaksin and the do Reds seize power and assure there never will be another election in Thailand. The attitude is that the Redshirt-Thaksin peasants have absolute power but we Thaksin and the Redshirt leaders exercise the power model of government, the disastrous Mao model. Wanting a snap election in the present environment and atmosphere does not define one as a democrat. It defines one as a Redshirt-Thaksin collaborator or fellow traveller.

People are entitled to their own points of view and to advocate, and this is my two cents of it.

Wish it have never come to this look at the list of dead on both side all people used as pawns, elite, generals and red shirt leaders sitting in their ivory towers, let the little man die, thats great we have millions more.As a Vietnam Vet. I know who does the scarifying. Sad day for Thailand.

[lannarebirth]

I want every person who voted for a crackdown to remember it and own it for the rest of their lives.

In a society without democracy, no one is safe...

In a society without an effective police force and the rule of law there is no democracy, of any hue.

[mindful]

Jimmy Carter is cream of the crop? Oh my you yanks are funny!

Jimmy Carter was probably the most decent, honest and honorable man to sit in the Oval Office. Though, I will admit that he was not be best president the US has had. IMHO the best modern US president was Bill Clinton.

So, will Abhisit become an honest but less than effective Jimmy Carter or will be be a wily, pragmatic Bill Clinton?

Khun Britmaveric I am very happy to have given you a good laugh.. especially considering the current news from Thailand.

And I thank you as your reply provided me with a good laugh, in spite of current news from Thailand.

Your deliberate or accidental misinterpretation of my words amuses me to no end...

They say turn-about is fair play... I am sure we are both providing good laughs to other TVF readers!

Considering the source, I am honored by your reply.

Khun Animatic Thank you for your warm welcome... however I am not newly arrived, I have simply never posted. I have been a guest reader @ TVF for many years. Considering the source, I am equally honored by your reply.

Khun Otherstuff1957 Thank you for a thoughtful reply.

In my humble opinion the issue regarding Khun Abhisit is one of character & integrity, not of political savviness, achievement, or other short-term outcomes.

In my opinion, Carter never would have made it to office of President, had it not been for Nixon. Carter was put in place as a tonic to smooth the US public back into place (republicans & democrats) and prepare for Reagan. Poor Mr. Nixon was victim of his own corruption and an information coup, decided upon by the elite and carried out by the military & the press, using clueless dupes (young, innocent, idealist and eager to make a names for themselves) journalists.

Most Americans are as most of the Thai... we know it is a corrupt system... but Thaksin & Nixon each became too corrupt & showed signs of being unstable a danger to all, for all concerned... too corrupt even among the corrupt!

My Thai sister asked me who I favored in the last US presidential election. I explained it to her this way- I have a cell phone, I can change the face plate and it will look different, but it is still the same cell phone as before... no real difference.

I do not waste my limited time here on earth playing games. I do my best to invest my time to support good people, further what is good and limit what is evil. Thus, I felt I needed to respond to the poll and voice support for Khun Abhisit's good conduct.

For me politics and all human competition is simply a game of tic-tac-toe, with 3 kinds of players,

1- the innocent who have not yet learned the game... and that any conflict is a no-win game

2- the savvy-corrupt who seek to take advantage of the innocent for fun and profit, in an attempt to feel superior in their insecurity

3- the savvy-teachers who seek to teach the innocent to not be suckered into playing a no win game, to help protect others & make the world a better place.

In my humble opinion Carter and Khun Abhisit are both winners- teaching what has lasting value and what does not.

Any person who keeps their honor and integrity, especially in the political arena, has won... because they remain true to course, in spite of the attacks and temptations to do otherwise... they are winners because they do not play the games the others are playing - they simply do their best to be of service to all and remain true to their path.

Khun Britmaveric - it is the conduct of Khun Abhisit that I called the cream - and I praised Carter's conduct as he modeled similar courage under fire in a similar situation and is still the only US President, that I can recall, who has done so during my lifetime.

• Each of them have shown commitment and actions toward stopping (or at least bring to light) the cycles of conflict/warfare/coups... and the need to replace it with cooperative talks and actions.
  
• BRAVO to them and all others who work toward that end!!!
  

I see now why I was lead to post.

• I thought it was simply to voice support for Khun Abhisit's conduct, as this is not (in my opinion) a conflict of class, race, or political ideals but simply the age old corruption vs. those who can no longer stand by and let it continue unchecked… some of both parties represented by members of all groups.
  
• It becomes easy to distinguish muddy water if one compares it along side of clear pure water and a time when one must speak out to support what is good eventually comes.
  
• Each of us must decide for him/herself... what water to drink and who.. in the tic-tac-toe of life is whom- players 1-3 above and most importantly.. who and how they will choose to be, today, tomorrow and the next day.
  
• Reading the replies to my post, it appears to me, that Khun Britmaveric, Khun Animatic and Khun Otherstuff1957 have brought my post to life through their actions/words/replies. I think, we have all presented ourselves, tic-tac-toe players 1-3... khob-kun-Ka to all for the teaching/lesson.
  

I would hope current events inspire all people to stop, reflect, and decide if a new choice is in order for them, each day.

It is a free will universe no matter where one lives.. we are all free to choose... and choose again.

Thus, I am not disillusioned or disheartened, but at peace and happy, as my choices i carefully consider and review each day.

I have never posted before, as words have little lasting effect, it is actions that speak more clearly and firmly present the truth.

Gandhi is quoted as saying, "My life is my teaching."

And so it is for us all.. what will each of us choose to teach and thereby shape the future?

• Choose well and you will improve your life and the lives of others.

• Choose poorly and you will create ill effects in your life and that of others.. and inspire others to choose better for themselves.

• Ultimately all choices can be used to further what is good and limit what is evil.

I cannot think of any better words than the following:

It's Between You and God

by Dr. Kent M. Keith

(Mother Teresa put these up on the wall of her children's home in Calcutta, which is why this is sometimes attributed to her)

People are often unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered;

Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives;

Be kind anyway.

If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies;

Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you;

Be honest and frank anyway.

What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight;

Build anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness they may be jealous;

Be happy anyway.

The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow;

Do good anyway.

Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough;

Give the world the best you've got anyway.

You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God;

It was never between you and them anyway.

If you want to fight corruption and injustice, may i humbly suggest... you begin in your own heart and mind and work out from there.

Sorry for so many words...

To those i offend, my apologies.

To those who read with patience and open heart and mind... thank you for listening.

I will pack up may soapbox and call it a day!

Sawasdee ka

[mauiguy90]

I want every person who voted for a crackdown to remember it and own it for the rest of their lives.

In a society without democracy, no one is safe...

In a society without an effective police force and the rule of law there is no democracy, of any hue.

Yes, and I've heard that China has quite an effective police force and strong rule of law. Where's the democracy there?

Edited April 11, 2010 by mauiguy90

[rixalex]

Parliament must now be dissolved and once a new government is elected put in place and the constitution re-written, it must be understood that this type of thing will never be tolerated again.

I see. So we tolerate it one more time to appease the reds, and then we say "no more"?! Why not end it right here and now? No? You'd prefer to let the reds have a chance to get back in power and then stop it?

If an elected government doesn't please you, you must wait until the next election to take them out. That's the way democracy works.

This is precisely why elections should not be forced now. If Abhisit wishes to call elections then fine, but it shouldn't be done under violent duress. That is not the way democracy works.

[lannarebirth]

I want every person who voted for a crackdown to remember it and own it for the rest of their lives.

In a society without democracy, no one is safe...

In a society without an effective police force and the rule of law there is no democracy, of any hue.

Yes, and I've heard that China has quite an effective police force and strong rule of law. Where's the democracy there?

Who said there was, or in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea for that matter? I'm only speaking of prerequisites.

Edited April 11, 2010 by lannarebirth

[mauiguy90]

Which government beats up indiscriminately on protesters because they choose to do so at a popular tourist spot? Sounds like China to me...

"Who said there was, or in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea for that matter? I'm only speaking of prerequisites."

Edited April 11, 2010 by mauiguy90

[philw]

Jimmy Carter is cream of the crop? Oh my you yanks are funny!

Jimmy Carter was probably the most decent, honest and honorable man to sit in the Oval Office. Though, I will admit that he was not be best president the US has had. IMHO the best modern US president was Bill Clinton.

So, will Abhisit become an honest but less than effective Jimmy Carter or will be be a wily, pragmatic Bill Clinton?

Khun Britmaveric I am very happy to have given you a good laugh.. especially considering the current news from Thailand.

And I thank you as your reply provided me with a good laugh, in spite of current news from Thailand.

Your deliberate or accidental misinterpretation of my words amuses me to no end...

They say turn-about is fair play... I am sure we are both providing good laughs to other TVF readers!

Considering the source, I am honored by your reply.

Khun Animatic Thank you for your warm welcome... however I am not newly arrived, I have simply never posted. I have been a guest reader @ TVF for many years. Considering the source, I am equally honored by your reply.

Khun Otherstuff1957 Thank you for a thoughtful reply.

In my humble opinion the issue regarding Khun Abhisit is one of character & integrity, not of political savviness, achievement, or other short-term outcomes.

In my opinion, Carter never would have made it to office of President, had it not been for Nixon. Carter was put in place as a tonic to smooth the US public back into place (republicans & democrats) and prepare for Reagan. Poor Mr. Nixon was victim of his own corruption and an information coup, decided upon by the elite and carried out by the military & the press, using clueless dupes (young, innocent, idealist and eager to make a names for themselves) journalists.

Most Americans are as most of the Thai... we know it is a corrupt system... but Thaksin & Nixon each became too corrupt & showed signs of being unstable a danger to all, for all concerned... too corrupt even among the corrupt!

My Thai sister asked me who I favored in the last US presidential election. I explained it to her this way- I have a cell phone, I can change the face plate and it will look different, but it is still the same cell phone as before... no real difference.

I do not waste my limited time here on earth playing games. I do my best to invest my time to support good people, further what is good and limit what is evil. Thus, I felt I needed to respond to the poll and voice support for Khun Abhisit's good conduct.

For me politics and all human competition is simply a game of tic-tac-toe, with 3 kinds of players,

1- the innocent who have not yet learned the game... and that any conflict is a no-win game

2- the savvy-corrupt who seek to take advantage of the innocent for fun and profit, in an attempt to feel superior in their insecurity

3- the savvy-teachers who seek to teach the innocent to not be suckered into playing a no win game, to help protect others & make the world a better place.

In my humble opinion Carter and Khun Abhisit are both winners- teaching what has lasting value and what does not.

Any person who keeps their honor and integrity, especially in the political arena, has won... because they remain true to course, in spite of the attacks and temptations to do otherwise... they are winners because they do not play the games the others are playing - they simply do their best to be of service to all and remain true to their path.

Khun Britmaveric - it is the conduct of Khun Abhisit that I called the cream - and I praised Carter's conduct as he modeled similar courage under fire in a similar situation and is still the only US President, that I can recall, who has done so during my lifetime.

• Each of them have shown commitment and actions toward stopping (or at least bring to light) the cycles of conflict/warfare/coups... and the need to replace it with cooperative talks and actions.
  
• BRAVO to them and all others who work toward that end!!!
  

I see now why I was lead to post.

• I thought it was simply to voice support for Khun Abhisit's conduct, as this is not (in my opinion) a conflict of class, race, or political ideals but simply the age old corruption vs. those who can no longer stand by and let it continue unchecked… some of both parties represented by members of all groups.
  
• It becomes easy to distinguish muddy water if one compares it along side of clear pure water and a time when one must speak out to support what is good eventually comes.
  
• Each of us must decide for him/herself... what water to drink and who.. in the tic-tac-toe of life is whom- players 1-3 above and most importantly.. who and how they will choose to be, today, tomorrow and the next day.
  
• Reading the replies to my post, it appears to me, that Khun Britmaveric, Khun Animatic and Khun Otherstuff1957 have brought my post to life through their actions/words/replies. I think, we have all presented ourselves, tic-tac-toe players 1-3... khob-kun-Ka to all for the teaching/lesson.
  

I would hope current events inspire all people to stop, reflect, and decide if a new choice is in order for them, each day.

It is a free will universe no matter where one lives.. we are all free to choose... and choose again.

Thus, I am not disillusioned or disheartened, but at peace and happy, as my choices i carefully consider and review each day.

I have never posted before, as words have little lasting effect, it is actions that speak more clearly and firmly present the truth.

Gandhi is quoted as saying, "My life is my teaching."

And so it is for us all.. what will each of us choose to teach and thereby shape the future?

• Choose well and you will improve your life and the lives of others.

• Choose poorly and you will create ill effects in your life and that of others.. and inspire others to choose better for themselves.

• Ultimately all choices can be used to further what is good and limit what is evil.

I cannot think of any better words than the following:

It's Between You and God

by Dr. Kent M. Keith

(Mother Teresa put these up on the wall of her children's home in Calcutta, which is why this is sometimes attributed to her)

People are often unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered;

Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives;

Be kind anyway.

If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies;

Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you;

Be honest and frank anyway.

What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight;

Build anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness they may be jealous;

Be happy anyway.

The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow;

Do good anyway.

Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough;

Give the world the best you've got anyway.

You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God;

It was never between you and them anyway.

If you want to fight corruption and injustice, may i humbly suggest... you begin in your own heart and mind and work out from there.

Sorry for so many words...

To those i offend, my apologies.

To those who read with patience and open heart and mind... thank you for listening.

I will pack up may soapbox and call it a day!

Sawasdee ka

Great stuff................

Wish you had not waited so long before posting !!

ph

[rabo]

In my humble opinion the issue regarding Khun Abhisit is one of character & integrity, not of political savviness, achievement, or other short-term outcomes.

[............Please refer to full posts on page 18,19..................]

<>I will pack up may soapbox and call it a day!

Sawasdee ka

Bravo! Your words are highly enlightening and it's hard to find anything to say in their shadow.

I'll just say, as a Westerner who has lived here for 20 years, Kkun Abhisit's character and integrity are something I have not seen before in any Thai leader. It may be tempting to think that such qualities cannot work here or that he is too fresh to make it happen. However as you said, we're all free to decide what we think and believe and I think I would like to see such a change and believe it can happen. Most people don't believe something until it happens, those that do are the ones that can make it happen. I hope Kkun Abhisit is surrounded by a few such people.

[donsuyi]

Well there were some whining that Jingthing's reference to a POLL was wrong and biased.

Here's their chance to VOTE ONCE, and we can see what TVF people think of the situation.

So far lets just say, it appears 'Statistically significant'.

One man, One vote.

Trouble is I suspect that a lot of these 'political debators' , have multi accounts, multi pseudonyms, and will probably have been reincarnated 6 or 7 times before Sunday

The vote will still show at least 3;1 against the reds, unlike what the red supporters say/believe.

Personally I voted B.

LOL

Rich Elite Yellow shirts who can use the Internet on the latest Mac PC with a 10MB broadband connection in their AC "study room" can each vote once.

Red shirts out on the streets or working in the factory or on the farm with no internet connection and no PC can vote, but of course, will not be able to.

LOL

It's a vote of Thai Visa users. Not an national poll.

So, it seems that member of this forum is dominated by Rich Elite Yellow shirts who never sleep with hunger stomach

[eurasianthai]

Resign.

Any responsible leader would do it.

Do Thai red shirt life and Thai soldier life mean nothing to them?

[xminator]

Abhsit should resign. A new government representing all political parties and a fairly neutral PM should take his place. This combined with a 6 or 9 month plan for charter amendments and new elections might be enough to give the red shirt leaders an excuse to suspend the demonstrations.

[mrtoad]

I want every person who voted for a crackdown to remember it and own it for the rest of their lives.

OK, will do. There is however, a difference between a crowd dispersal - which is and was clearly needed and the chaos that was seen yesterday.

[britmaveric]

Resign.

Any responsible leader would do it.

Do Thai red shirt life and Thai soldier life mean nothing to them?

I agree time for him to go... he chose unwisely. Then again maybe it wasn't his decision to be made?

[mrtoad]

So, it seems that member of this forum is dominated by Rich Elite Yellow shirts who never sleep with hunger stomach

Why is is, that any person who has anything to say against the yellows is called "rich elite" ? It is a pathetic and childlike , which just shows the lack of depth in your argument.

[eurasianthai]

I agree time for him to go... he chose unwisely. Then again maybe it wasn't his decision to be made?

I fully agree with you on what you posted in another thread, Brit, the genie is out of the bottle.

And they sure will never be able to bring it back in...

[animatic]

I want every person who voted for a crackdown to remember it and own it for the rest of their lives.

You can save your guilt trip for your own lonely nights in bed.

People that did, did not pull the triggers.

People that did vote for law and order,

did not tell the Reds to fight back against the army.

Voting against letting mob rule take over Thailand

is not something anyone should be ashamed of.

[animatic]

One man, One vote.

Trouble is I suspect that a lot of these 'political debators' , have multi accounts, multi pseudonyms, and will probably have been reincarnated 6 or 7 times before Sunday

The vote will still show at least 3;1 against the reds, unlike what the red supporters say/believe.

Personally I voted B.

LOL

Rich Elite Yellow shirts who can use the Internet on the latest Mac PC with a 10MB broadband connection in their AC "study room" can each vote once.

Red shirts out on the streets or working in the factory or on the farm with no internet connection and no PC can vote, but of course, will not be able to.

LOL

It's a vote of Thai Visa users. Not an national poll.

So, it seems that member of this forum is dominated by Rich Elite Yellow shirts who never sleep with hunger stomach

If your English skills were better that might not be your impression.

[ozzieman05]

I want every person who voted for a crackdown to remember it and own it for the rest of their lives.

Every person who said the Red shirts would be totally non violent and obey the law should remember this weekend, if you had agreed to the early disolve of parliment like the PM said 20 people would be alive tonight

See 2 sides to ever story

Edited April 11, 2010 by ozzieman05

[ozzieman05]

The battle was lost long ago. When the army and police allowed the yellow shirts to take over and loot the government house, that destroyed any respect (fear) people had for the army and police. Allowing the yellow mob to take over the airport opened the door to any other group that wanted to take down the government. It's difficult if not impossible to get tough now.

Parliament must now be dissolved and once a new government is elected put in place and the constitution re-written, it must be understood that this type of thing will never be tolerated again. It's just like the snowball rolling down the hill. The snowball must be broken up before it can grow to a large destructive size. If an elected government doesn't please you, you must wait until the next election to take them out. That's the way democracy works.

Still blaming everything on the past

Mummy why are the police taking me away, billy robbed 2 banks before they arrested him

Must be double standards

[ozzieman05]

Resign.

Any responsible leader would do it.

Do Thai red shirt life and Thai soldier life mean nothing to them?

I agree time for him to go... he chose unwisely. Then again maybe it wasn't his decision to be made?

We are talking about the Red shirt leaders who are responsible for all this trouble

your rules do nothing

Our rules we do as we like

[eurasianthai]

20 people would be alive tonight

Just nobody cares about them actually.

Everybody will try to use the dead for their own agenda.

20 Thai people dead for nothing.

I give my condolences to the families of the red shirts that lost a loved one and to the families of the soldiers that lost a loved one.

And I for one mean it.

Sad and unjustified.

Edited April 11, 2010 by eurasianthai