What Do You Want Pm Abhisit To Do Now?

[LevelHead]

I think the guy's doing a marvellous job under VERY difficult circumstances and I hope he'll manage to stay the course and see off the Red Shirt thugs.

I just wish we had a politician like him to run the UK - an honest, decent man who obviously loves his country and is trying to do his very best to govern fairly but firmly and will not give way to violent mobs backed by terrorists.

Why on earth can the Red Shirts not wait till later in the year for the elections that have been promised? Is Thaksin down to his last few billions?

The Yellow lies continue.

Abhisit HAS NOT OFFERED election in 9 months as a stand alone item.

He has said, we can have them in 9 months BUT I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST.

He has loaded the "9 months" with the proviso he and his Yellow mates can change the constitution BEFORE THE ELECTION, NO CHANGE THEN NO ELECTION.

What simple part of that can people not understand ??????

He said "9 months IF........"

Now, its already been said, there was a general agreement to amend some parts of the constitution, however, following the loss of the by-elections by BJT the Democrats and BJT and the other coalition partners suddenly wanted to CHANGE THE ELECTION LAWS.

Changes that would mean small parties get more votes and PTP (PPP) get much less.

Now you see why Abhisit and his yellow mates want to change the constitution - they want to rig the election so that PTP cannot win.

Now do you understand why PTP say "no" to amending the constitution now ?

And do you see why Abhisit loaded his "9 months" with the "I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST".

In effect he was saying "You are not getting elections unless we can make sure you lose".

All this "9 months" talk is stupid, he never offered it on its own. Do not let the biased propaganda merchants lead you into thinking he offered elections to the reds and that was that, he did not, he offered them 9 months only if he can make changes to ensure PTP lose the election by rigging it so his smaller party coalition members can win more seats by changing the way elections are held.

It was all a big CON and pumped by the propaganda machine.

[anotherpeter]

The Yellow lies continue.

Abhisit HAS NOT OFFERED election in 9 months as a stand alone item.

He has said, we can have them in 9 months BUT I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST.

He has loaded the "9 months" with the proviso he and his Yellow mates can change the constitution BEFORE THE ELECTION, NO CHANGE THEN NO ELECTION.

What simple part of that can people not understand ??????

He said "9 months IF........"

Now, its already been said, there was a general agreement to amend some parts of the constitution, however, following the loss of the by-elections by BJT the Democrats and BJT and the other coalition partners suddenly wanted to CHANGE THE ELECTION LAWS.

Changes that would mean small parties get more votes and PTP (PPP) get much less.

Now you see why Abhisit and his yellow mates want to change the constitution - they want to rig the election so that PTP cannot win.

Now do you understand why PTP say "no" to amending the constitution now ?

And do you see why Abhisit loaded his "9 months" with the "I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST".

In effect he was saying "You are not getting elections unless we can make sure you lose".

All this "9 months" talk is stupid, he never offered it on its own. Do not let the biased propaganda merchants lead you into thinking he offered elections to the reds and that was that, he did not, he offered them 9 months only if he can make changes to ensure PTP lose the election by rigging it so his smaller party coalition members can win more seats by changing the way elections are held.

It was all a big CON and pumped by the propaganda machine.

Abhisit has actually said that the constitution should be changed with input from all sides - government, reds, and other community groups. And then to be voted for by the people in a referendum.

What have the reds offered?

IF they get into power, they will change it to suit them. Not for the benefit of all Thais. Just for the benefit of their corrupt practices and their corrupt leader.

edit: levelhead, you should watch more than just Red TV.

Edited April 21, 2010 by anotherpeter

[ChiangMaiFun]

The Yellow lies continue.

Abhisit HAS NOT OFFERED election in 9 months as a stand alone item.

He has said, we can have them in 9 months BUT I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST.

He has loaded the "9 months" with the proviso he and his Yellow mates can change the constitution BEFORE THE ELECTION, NO CHANGE THEN NO ELECTION.

What simple part of that can people not understand ??????

He said "9 months IF........"

Now, its already been said, there was a general agreement to amend some parts of the constitution, however, following the loss of the by-elections by BJT the Democrats and BJT and the other coalition partners suddenly wanted to CHANGE THE ELECTION LAWS.

Changes that would mean small parties get more votes and PTP (PPP) get much less.

Now you see why Abhisit and his yellow mates want to change the constitution - they want to rig the election so that PTP cannot win.

Now do you understand why PTP say "no" to amending the constitution now ?

And do you see why Abhisit loaded his "9 months" with the "I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST".

In effect he was saying "You are not getting elections unless we can make sure you lose".

All this "9 months" talk is stupid, he never offered it on its own. Do not let the biased propaganda merchants lead you into thinking he offered elections to the reds and that was that, he did not, he offered them 9 months only if he can make changes to ensure PTP lose the election by rigging it so his smaller party coalition members can win more seats by changing the way elections are held.

It was all a big CON and pumped by the propaganda machine.

Abhisit has actually said that the constitution should be changed with input from all sides - government, reds, and other community groups. And then to be voted for by the people in a referendum.

What have the reds offered?

IF they get into power, they will change it to suit them. Not for the benefit of all Thais. Just for the benefit of their corrupt practices and their corrupt leader.

edit: levelhead, you should watch more than just Red TV.

then let him show leadership - not just chit chat - set up a commission - invite all sides - step down the Army - give the date for the commission to sit and the date for the election - then leave the reds to sit there and drift home

[mic6ard]

I think the guy's doing a marvellous job under VERY difficult circumstances and I hope he'll manage to stay the course and see off the Red Shirt thugs.

I just wish we had a politician like him to run the UK - an honest, decent man who obviously loves his country and is trying to do his very best to govern fairly but firmly and will not give way to violent mobs backed by terrorists.

Why on earth can the Red Shirts not wait till later in the year for the elections that have been promised? Is Thaksin down to his last few billions?

The Yellow lies continue.

Abhisit HAS NOT OFFERED election in 9 months as a stand alone item.

He has said, we can have them in 9 months BUT I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST.

He has loaded the "9 months" with the proviso he and his Yellow mates can change the constitution BEFORE THE ELECTION, NO CHANGE THEN NO ELECTION.

What simple part of that can people not understand ??????

He said "9 months IF........"

Now, its already been said, there was a general agreement to amend some parts of the constitution, however, following the loss of the by-elections by BJT the Democrats and BJT and the other coalition partners suddenly wanted to CHANGE THE ELECTION LAWS.

Changes that would mean small parties get more votes and PTP (PPP) get much less.

Now you see why Abhisit and his yellow mates want to change the constitution - they want to rig the election so that PTP cannot win.

Now do you understand why PTP say "no" to amending the constitution now ?

And do you see why Abhisit loaded his "9 months" with the "I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST".

In effect he was saying "You are not getting elections unless we can make sure you lose".

All this "9 months" talk is stupid, he never offered it on its own. Do not let the biased propaganda merchants lead you into thinking he offered elections to the reds and that was that, he did not, he offered them 9 months only if he can make changes to ensure PTP lose the election by rigging it so his smaller party coalition members can win more seats by changing the way elections are held.

It was all a big CON and pumped by the propaganda machine.

Man, you sure are educated. Probably have a degree in political science you say what you did. Do youu expect the problem to be solve with just a election with the current constitution? Get real man, if the house dissolve, the yellow would just rise up and continue this mess, is that what you want. Or do you want the yellow to rise so you can finally crush them. Cos that's what you'll have to do. The 9months might be along time, what would be best would be to have it so that once the constitution is changed (with agreement from all party involve), then hold the election on the premise that the winner wouldn't change the constitution for another 4 years. That way if either side win, they'll have to follow the same constitution. With the guarantee that they loser won't challenge the results for some idiotic reasons.

You, sir, are just not think this through and follow the rhetoric of the red's leader like a sheep. Think more than just the immediate future, but to solve this mess.

[LevelHead]

The Yellow lies continue.

Abhisit HAS NOT OFFERED election in 9 months as a stand alone item.

He has said, we can have them in 9 months BUT I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST.

He has loaded the "9 months" with the proviso he and his Yellow mates can change the constitution BEFORE THE ELECTION, NO CHANGE THEN NO ELECTION.

What simple part of that can people not understand ??????

He said "9 months IF........"

Now, its already been said, there was a general agreement to amend some parts of the constitution, however, following the loss of the by-elections by BJT the Democrats and BJT and the other coalition partners suddenly wanted to CHANGE THE ELECTION LAWS.

Changes that would mean small parties get more votes and PTP (PPP) get much less.

Now you see why Abhisit and his yellow mates want to change the constitution - they want to rig the election so that PTP cannot win.

Now do you understand why PTP say "no" to amending the constitution now ?

And do you see why Abhisit loaded his "9 months" with the "I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST".

In effect he was saying "You are not getting elections unless we can make sure you lose".

All this "9 months" talk is stupid, he never offered it on its own. Do not let the biased propaganda merchants lead you into thinking he offered elections to the reds and that was that, he did not, he offered them 9 months only if he can make changes to ensure PTP lose the election by rigging it so his smaller party coalition members can win more seats by changing the way elections are held.

It was all a big CON and pumped by the propaganda machine.

Abhisit has actually said that the constitution should be changed with input from all sides - government, reds, and other community groups. And then to be voted for by the people in a referendum.

What have the reds offered?

IF they get into power, they will change it to suit them. Not for the benefit of all Thais. Just for the benefit of their corrupt practices and their corrupt leader.

edit: levelhead, you should watch more than just Red TV.

If its not broken, do not fix it.

You have avoided the MAIN ISSUE, and that was the Abhisit loaded the 9 months with an "IF".

His 9 month offer was total bull, due to his loading of it with "I must change the constitution first".

Lets not forget, after Songkran 2009 they set up committees and commissions to look into "everything" and from "all sides" and offer suggestions.

Every recommendation was ignored by Abhisit and the Yellows. It made all the "talk or reconciliation" to be revealed as just more bull.

How can anyone think their "constitution" talks will be anything different. Everyone knows their desires are to rig all future elections so they will always be the majority and PTP cannot win a majority.

So, get back on track.

Abhisit did not offer elections this year or in 9 months - on it own, he loaded it with lots of IFS and IFS he knows that the opposition cannot accept. Its the same as offering nothing. He is hollow and empty, a puppet on a string and with stained hands should resign.

[lannarebirth]

The Yellow lies continue.

Abhisit HAS NOT OFFERED election in 9 months as a stand alone item.

He has said, we can have them in 9 months BUT I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST.

He has loaded the "9 months" with the proviso he and his Yellow mates can change the constitution BEFORE THE ELECTION, NO CHANGE THEN NO ELECTION.

What simple part of that can people not understand ??????

He said "9 months IF........"

Now, its already been said, there was a general agreement to amend some parts of the constitution, however, following the loss of the by-elections by BJT the Democrats and BJT and the other coalition partners suddenly wanted to CHANGE THE ELECTION LAWS.

Changes that would mean small parties get more votes and PTP (PPP) get much less.

Now you see why Abhisit and his yellow mates want to change the constitution - they want to rig the election so that PTP cannot win.

Now do you understand why PTP say "no" to amending the constitution now ?

And do you see why Abhisit loaded his "9 months" with the "I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST".

In effect he was saying "You are not getting elections unless we can make sure you lose".

All this "9 months" talk is stupid, he never offered it on its own. Do not let the biased propaganda merchants lead you into thinking he offered elections to the reds and that was that, he did not, he offered them 9 months only if he can make changes to ensure PTP lose the election by rigging it so his smaller party coalition members can win more seats by changing the way elections are held.

It was all a big CON and pumped by the propaganda machine.

Abhisit has actually said that the constitution should be changed with input from all sides - government, reds, and other community groups. And then to be voted for by the people in a referendum.

What have the reds offered?

IF they get into power, they will change it to suit them. Not for the benefit of all Thais. Just for the benefit of their corrupt practices and their corrupt leader.

edit: levelhead, you should watch more than just Red TV.

then let him show leadership - not just chit chat - set up a commission - invite all sides - step down the Army - give the date for the commission to sit and the date for the election - then leave the reds to sit there and drift home

You're either being disingenuous or you've forgotten that constitutional reform was already worked out in the parliament among all coalition parties. Chalerm got a telephone call from Thaksin to pull out (which he readily admits) and the process died. Better still would have been public inclusion but none of your folks seem to want to give any time for that. You want to spend all your time dogging this administaration every minute of every day to get out. Still, they're getting more work done on behalf of all Thais than I can ever recall from any government, much to their credit.

[chantorn]

Mark need not take any responsibility. The crack down orders that killed 26 people and injured 800+ were from Suthep.

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-432683

[anotherpeter]

The Yellow lies continue.

Abhisit HAS NOT OFFERED election in 9 months as a stand alone item.

He has said, we can have them in 9 months BUT I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST.

He has loaded the "9 months" with the proviso he and his Yellow mates can change the constitution BEFORE THE ELECTION, NO CHANGE THEN NO ELECTION.

What simple part of that can people not understand ??????

He said "9 months IF........"

Now, its already been said, there was a general agreement to amend some parts of the constitution, however, following the loss of the by-elections by BJT the Democrats and BJT and the other coalition partners suddenly wanted to CHANGE THE ELECTION LAWS.

Changes that would mean small parties get more votes and PTP (PPP) get much less.

Now you see why Abhisit and his yellow mates want to change the constitution - they want to rig the election so that PTP cannot win.

Now do you understand why PTP say "no" to amending the constitution now ?

And do you see why Abhisit loaded his "9 months" with the "I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST".

In effect he was saying "You are not getting elections unless we can make sure you lose".

All this "9 months" talk is stupid, he never offered it on its own. Do not let the biased propaganda merchants lead you into thinking he offered elections to the reds and that was that, he did not, he offered them 9 months only if he can make changes to ensure PTP lose the election by rigging it so his smaller party coalition members can win more seats by changing the way elections are held.

It was all a big CON and pumped by the propaganda machine.

Abhisit has actually said that the constitution should be changed with input from all sides - government, reds, and other community groups. And then to be voted for by the people in a referendum.

What have the reds offered?

IF they get into power, they will change it to suit them. Not for the benefit of all Thais. Just for the benefit of their corrupt practices and their corrupt leader.

edit: levelhead, you should watch more than just Red TV.

If its not broken, do not fix it.

You have avoided the MAIN ISSUE, and that was the Abhisit loaded the 9 months with an "IF".

His 9 month offer was total bull, due to his loading of it with "I must change the constitution first".

Lets not forget, after Songkran 2009 they set up committees and commissions to look into "everything" and from "all sides" and offer suggestions.

Every recommendation was ignored by Abhisit and the Yellows. It made all the "talk or reconciliation" to be revealed as just more bull.

How can anyone think their "constitution" talks will be anything different. Everyone knows their desires are to rig all future elections so they will always be the majority and PTP cannot win a majority.

So, get back on track.

Abhisit did not offer elections this year or in 9 months - on it own, he loaded it with lots of IFS and IFS he knows that the opposition cannot accept. Its the same as offering nothing. He is hollow and empty, a puppet on a string and with stained hands should resign.

EVERYONE (even the reds) has agreed that it is broken, and that it needs fixing.

Abhisit has put forward a process involving EVERYONE so that it can be fixed.

The reds have put forward a process involving the REDS so that it can be fixed.

Abhisit has put forward that the change of the constitution should be separate from political elections.

The reds have put forward that a vote for them in political elections is a vote to change the constitution how they want. To suit them. Not for for all the people of Thailand. Just them.

edit: Abhisit offered elections in 9 months, as that would be enough time to discuss the changes to the constitution and have a referendum before political elections.

Edited April 21, 2010 by anotherpeter

[JRinger]

The Yellow lies continue.

Abhisit HAS NOT OFFERED election in 9 months as a stand alone item.

He has said, we can have them in 9 months BUT I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST.

He has loaded the "9 months" with the proviso he and his Yellow mates can change the constitution BEFORE THE ELECTION, NO CHANGE THEN NO ELECTION.

What simple part of that can people not understand ??????

He said "9 months IF........"

Now, its already been said, there was a general agreement to amend some parts of the constitution, however, following the loss of the by-elections by BJT the Democrats and BJT and the other coalition partners suddenly wanted to CHANGE THE ELECTION LAWS.

Changes that would mean small parties get more votes and PTP (PPP) get much less.

Now you see why Abhisit and his yellow mates want to change the constitution - they want to rig the election so that PTP cannot win.

Now do you understand why PTP say "no" to amending the constitution now ?

And do you see why Abhisit loaded his "9 months" with the "I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST".

In effect he was saying "You are not getting elections unless we can make sure you lose".

All this "9 months" talk is stupid, he never offered it on its own. Do not let the biased propaganda merchants lead you into thinking he offered elections to the reds and that was that, he did not, he offered them 9 months only if he can make changes to ensure PTP lose the election by rigging it so his smaller party coalition members can win more seats by changing the way elections are held.

It was all a big CON and pumped by the propaganda machine.

Abhisit has actually said that the constitution should be changed with input from all sides - government, reds, and other community groups. And then to be voted for by the people in a referendum.

What have the reds offered?

IF they get into power, they will change it to suit them. Not for the benefit of all Thais. Just for the benefit of their corrupt practices and their corrupt leader.

edit: levelhead, you should watch more than just Red TV.

If its not broken, do not fix it.

You have avoided the MAIN ISSUE, and that was the Abhisit loaded the 9 months with an "IF".

His 9 month offer was total bull, due to his loading of it with "I must change the constitution first".

Lets not forget, after Songkran 2009 they set up committees and commissions to look into "everything" and from "all sides" and offer suggestions.

Every recommendation was ignored by Abhisit and the Yellows. It made all the "talk or reconciliation" to be revealed as just more bull.

How can anyone think their "constitution" talks will be anything different. Everyone knows their desires are to rig all future elections so they will always be the majority and PTP cannot win a majority.

So, get back on track.

Abhisit did not offer elections this year or in 9 months - on it own, he loaded it with lots of IFS and IFS he knows that the opposition cannot accept. Its the same as offering nothing. He is hollow and empty, a puppet on a string and with stained hands should resign.

LevelHead, You might want to seriously consider changing or modifying your forum name...

[LevelHead]

I think the guy's doing a marvellous job under VERY difficult circumstances and I hope he'll manage to stay the course and see off the Red Shirt thugs.

I just wish we had a politician like him to run the UK - an honest, decent man who obviously loves his country and is trying to do his very best to govern fairly but firmly and will not give way to violent mobs backed by terrorists.

Why on earth can the Red Shirts not wait till later in the year for the elections that have been promised? Is Thaksin down to his last few billions?

The Yellow lies continue.

Abhisit HAS NOT OFFERED election in 9 months as a stand alone item.

He has said, we can have them in 9 months BUT I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST.

He has loaded the "9 months" with the proviso he and his Yellow mates can change the constitution BEFORE THE ELECTION, NO CHANGE THEN NO ELECTION.

What simple part of that can people not understand ??????

He said "9 months IF........"

Now, its already been said, there was a general agreement to amend some parts of the constitution, however, following the loss of the by-elections by BJT the Democrats and BJT and the other coalition partners suddenly wanted to CHANGE THE ELECTION LAWS.

Changes that would mean small parties get more votes and PTP (PPP) get much less.

Now you see why Abhisit and his yellow mates want to change the constitution - they want to rig the election so that PTP cannot win.

Now do you understand why PTP say "no" to amending the constitution now ?

And do you see why Abhisit loaded his "9 months" with the "I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST".

In effect he was saying "You are not getting elections unless we can make sure you lose".

All this "9 months" talk is stupid, he never offered it on its own. Do not let the biased propaganda merchants lead you into thinking he offered elections to the reds and that was that, he did not, he offered them 9 months only if he can make changes to ensure PTP lose the election by rigging it so his smaller party coalition members can win more seats by changing the way elections are held.

It was all a big CON and pumped by the propaganda machine.

Man, you sure are educated. Probably have a degree in political science you say what you did. Do youu expect the problem to be solve with just a election with the current constitution? Get real man, if the house dissolve, the yellow would just rise up and continue this mess, is that what you want. Or do you want the yellow to rise so you can finally crush them. Cos that's what you'll have to do. The 9months might be along time, what would be best would be to have it so that once the constitution is changed (with agreement from all party involve), then hold the election on the premise that the winner wouldn't change the constitution for another 4 years. That way if either side win, they'll have to follow the same constitution. With the guarantee that they loser won't challenge the results for some idiotic reasons.

You, sir, are just not think this through and follow the rhetoric of the red's leader like a sheep. Think more than just the immediate future, but to solve this mess.

LOL -

You miss the point.

The 1997 constitution said that coups could no longer happen. Treason offense.

So they had a coup and threw the constitution in the bin to overcome it. This is what sore losers do, change and abuse the rules to get themselves back into power and then when in power change the rules to keep them in power.

Your suggestion falls down at the first hurdle, because the army at any time if the reds win the election can hold another coup and throw the new constitution into the bin, to allow changes again.

Do you see the problem with the Yellow side, they use the army to overcome the constitution. So what is the point changing it ?

There is no point changing it now.

LEAVE IT ALONE or put the already agreed "Peoples Constitution of 1997" back into place.

All that the Yellow side are trying to do now is change the constitution such that "their friends" always win elections, therefore no need for any more coups or any more changes to the constitution. That is akin to rampant corruption and a dictatorship.

And you want that to happen ?

[rixalex]

He has loaded the "9 months" with the proviso he and his Yellow mates can change the constitution BEFORE THE ELECTION, NO CHANGE THEN NO ELECTION.

What simple part of that can people not understand ??????

He said "9 months IF........"

Sorry, I don't believe this. If a date is set for an election there requires to be months of planning from the authorities, as well as campaigning from the parties. If, for whatever reason, changes were not able to be made to the constitution, Abhisit, no matter what provisos he may have agreed on with the reds, would not simply be able to say "ok, sorry folks, that election i promised has been cancelled". Wouldn't happen.

[anotherpeter]

LOL -

You miss the point.

The 1997 constitution said that coups could no longer happen. Treason offense.

So they had a coup and threw the constitution in the bin to overcome it. This is what sore losers do, change and abuse the rules to get themselves back into power and then when in power change the rules to keep them in power.

Your suggestion falls down at the first hurdle, because the army at any time if the reds win the election can hold another coup and throw the new constitution into the bin, to allow changes again.

Do you see the problem with the Yellow side, they use the army to overcome the constitution. So what is the point changing it ?

There is no point changing it now.

LEAVE IT ALONE or put the already agreed "Peoples Constitution of 1997" back into place.

All that the Yellow side are trying to do now is change the constitution such that "their friends" always win elections, therefore no need for any more coups or any more changes to the constitution. That is akin to rampant corruption and a dictatorship.

And you want that to happen ?

Levelhead. Get yourself away from Red TV and read something.

[LevelHead]

He has loaded the "9 months" with the proviso he and his Yellow mates can change the constitution BEFORE THE ELECTION, NO CHANGE THEN NO ELECTION.

What simple part of that can people not understand ??????

He said "9 months IF........"

Sorry, I don't believe this. If a date is set for an election there requires to be months of planning from the authorities, as well as campaigning from the parties. If, for whatever reason, changes were not able to be made to the constitution, Abhisit, no matter what provisos he may have agreed on with the reds, would not simply be able to say "ok, sorry folks, that election i promised has been cancelled". Wouldn't happen.

That is what he has done.

He said "could be held in 9 months" but "first must change the constitution".

Exactly. He would not call an election, because he would say his "IF" has not been satisfied.

It was a total bull offer, everyone can see that, apart from the Yellow clad people who knew exactly what he was doing.

He did not offer a date. He simply said "could be before year end, could be in 9 months" BUT ONLY IF I CAN CHANGE the constitution first.

His offer was clear, until he is allowed to change the constitution then there will be no election, and the delay will be due then to "those opposed" to constitutional change.

Do you really think the reds are that stupid to get suckered in to that one ? I would have laughed at them if they fell for that.

[anotherpeter]

That is what he has done.

He said "could be held in 9 months" but "first must change the constitution".

Exactly. He would not call an election, because he would say his "IF" has not been satisfied.

It was a total bull offer, everyone can see that, apart from the Yellow clad people who knew exactly what he was doing.

He did not offer a date. He simply said "could be before year end, could be in 9 months" BUT ONLY IF I CAN CHANGE the constitution first.

His offer was clear, until he is allowed to change the constitution then there will be no election, and the delay will be due then to "those opposed" to constitutional change.

Do you really think the reds are that stupid to get suckered in to that one ? I would have laughed at them if they fell for that.

There are plenty of reds (such as yourself) that have been suckered in to believing everything that is on Red TV ...

But, since the reds haven't sat down to negotiate again, it doesn't really matter what Abhisit has said. As it stands, elections will be in Dec 2011 as scheduled. The constitution will be changed before that.

[rixalex]

Do you really think the reds are that stupid to get suckered in to that one ?

Better we not talk about how stupid they are.

[LevelHead]

That is what he has done.

He said "could be held in 9 months" but "first must change the constitution".

Exactly. He would not call an election, because he would say his "IF" has not been satisfied.

It was a total bull offer, everyone can see that, apart from the Yellow clad people who knew exactly what he was doing.

He did not offer a date. He simply said "could be before year end, could be in 9 months" BUT ONLY IF I CAN CHANGE the constitution first.

His offer was clear, until he is allowed to change the constitution then there will be no election, and the delay will be due then to "those opposed" to constitutional change.

Do you really think the reds are that stupid to get suckered in to that one ? I would have laughed at them if they fell for that.

There are plenty of reds (such as yourself) that have been suckered in to believing everything that is on Red TV ...

But, since the reds haven't sat down to negotiate again, it doesn't really matter what Abhisit has said. As it stands, elections will be in Dec 2011 as scheduled. The constitution will be changed before that.

There is not any Red TV. Its all been banned by the government for a long time, there no longer is freedom of the media in Thailand, only a Yellow run propaganda machine.

Where is this Red TV ? What are they saying ? Its banned to all in Thailand. Only Yellow TV is allowed and pro-Yellow TV, and pro-Yellow newsprint ?

I just get my information talking to Thai people, real ones.

There has never been a free and not-loaded with "IFS" offer an election any sooner than Dec 2011. And we can be quite sure if the Yellow side has not managed to change the constitution by then there will be no election then either, there will be a coup in Nov 2011 to prevent the elections.

Team Yellow does not want elections now, they only want them once they rig the constitution so that Team Yellow wins every election, then you can have them as often as you want.

Its called "New Politics".

"New" meaning that whatever the people vote, only the Elite favored politicians will ever be in power ever again.

[Ricardo]

...

The reds have proposed that it should be the elected government that controls what is in the constitution. They want the elections to be about who changes the constitution, not who is the best group to govern the country.

Surely the reds, as believers in democracy, should believe that the Constitution should be voted-upon & agreed by the electorate, not just by whoever can put-together a coalition-government this week ?

Aren't they really trying to take for themselves, if they form the next government, powers which properly belong to the people as-a-whole ?

What changes might there be, that they feel so very passionate about, but which they think the majority of the voters might reject, in a Referendum ? Amnesty for past 5-year-bans, overturning the Supreme-Court's recent decisions on Thaksin's corruption, allowing party-executives to deliberately plan for their parties to rig elections, just what is so very important to them ?

Edited April 21, 2010 by Ricardo

[zorm999]

Why is everyone so surprised that both sides are trying to favour themselves?

Of course Abhisit doesn't want elections until after the constitution is changed because it will make him look better and will probably give his party a slightly better chance of winning. He's a politician - this is what they do! Levelhead rants on as if this is some kind of massive conspiracy against the red shirts - actually, it's just Politics 101.

And of course the red shirts want elections now because they think they have the best chance of winning now, and so they refuse to negiotiate. And the sooner they get in the better it will be for Thaksin.

Both sides are just trying to tilt things in their favour. The problem now is that in doing so, the red shirts have pushed things to a very precarious point.

[Publicus]

Why is everyone so surprised that both sides are trying to favour themselves?

Of course Abhisit doesn't want elections until after the constitution is changed because it will make him look better and will probably give his party a slightly better chance of winning. He's a politician - this is what they do! Levelhead rants on as if this is some kind of massive conspiracy against the red shirts - actually, it's just Politics 101.

And of course the red shirts want elections now because they think they have the best chance of winning now, and so they refuse to negiotiate. And the sooner they get in the better it will be for Thaksin.

Both sides are just trying to tilt things in their favour. The problem now is that in doing so, the red shirts have pushed things to a very precarious point.

True, and Thaksin and his Redshirt lieutenants want it all at any cost, no matter the consequences, and they have to get it all now. They lost what they'd had before they could get it all and now have nothing to lose to get it all. It's win-lose for each side but this time it's the Reds who are on the outside. Occupying an airport doesn't get them what they want, which is complete control of the state and the money. Thaksin and the Reds are assembled in place, they're going for it and they are not going to quit. They're going to have to be taken out.

[Old Man River]

Why is everyone so surprised that both sides are trying to favour themselves?

Of course Abhisit doesn't want elections until after the constitution is changed because it will make him look better and will probably give his party a slightly better chance of winning. He's a politician - this is what they do! Levelhead rants on as if this is some kind of massive conspiracy against the red shirts - actually, it's just Politics 101.

And of course the red shirts want elections now because they think they have the best chance of winning now, and so they refuse to negiotiate. And the sooner they get in the better it will be for Thaksin.

Both sides are just trying to tilt things in their favour. The problem now is that in doing so, the red shirts have pushed things to a very precarious point.

True, and Thaksin and his Redshirt lieutenants want it all at any cost, no matter the consequences, and they have to get it all now. They lost what they'd had before they could get it all and now have nothing to lose to get it all. It's win-lose for each side but this time it's the Reds who are on the outside. Occupying an airport doesn't get them what they want, which is complete control of the state and the money. Thaksin and the Reds are assembled in place, they're going for it and they are not going to quit. They're going to have to be taken out.

It just seems so easy to me. The Reds are barricading themselves in for a tough hand to hand battle. Why not cut off their food and water supplies? I am down here near the Ratchaprasong. The businesses in the area are locking their doors (hotels have "booted" guests out). Since the area businesses are closing anyway, shut off the water supply to the area. Blocking food brought in would be even easier.

The bottom line is if Abhisit wants to finish this with minimal casualties, cut food and water supplies wait a week (or less). Resistance would be minimal.

[zorm999]

Why is everyone so surprised that both sides are trying to favour themselves?

Of course Abhisit doesn't want elections until after the constitution is changed because it will make him look better and will probably give his party a slightly better chance of winning. He's a politician - this is what they do! Levelhead rants on as if this is some kind of massive conspiracy against the red shirts - actually, it's just Politics 101.

And of course the red shirts want elections now because they think they have the best chance of winning now, and so they refuse to negiotiate. And the sooner they get in the better it will be for Thaksin.

Both sides are just trying to tilt things in their favour. The problem now is that in doing so, the red shirts have pushed things to a very precarious point.

True, and Thaksin and his Redshirt lieutenants want it all at any cost, no matter the consequences, and they have to get it all now. They lost what they'd had before they could get it all and now have nothing to lose to get it all. It's win-lose for each side but this time it's the Reds who are on the outside. Occupying an airport doesn't get them what they want, which is complete control of the state and the money. Thaksin and the Reds are assembled in place, they're going for it and they are not going to quit. They're going to have to be taken out.

Yes, that's the problem. The reds are acting like they have nothing to lose. Yet they have plenty to lose. Thailand is becoming a worse place as a result of their current actions, regardless of how justified they believe themselves to be. OK, the yellows have contributed in the past to make Thailand a more divided country but now the reds are using exactly the same tactics. It's turning into a lose-lose situation for the country, if it's not there already and that will affect the reds as well as everyone else.

[rixalex]

Why is everyone so surprised that both sides are trying to favour themselves?

Of course Abhisit doesn't want elections until after the constitution is changed because it will make him look better and will probably give his party a slightly better chance of winning. He's a politician - this is what they do! Levelhead rants on as if this is some kind of massive conspiracy against the red shirts - actually, it's just Politics 101.

And of course the red shirts want elections now because they think they have the best chance of winning now, and so they refuse to negiotiate. And the sooner they get in the better it will be for Thaksin.

Both sides are just trying to tilt things in their favour. The problem now is that in doing so, the red shirts have pushed things to a very precarious point.

Very well put. The way Levelhead speaks one could be forgiven for thinking that the reds desire to change the constitution themselves is some sort of altruistic notion for the good of the country, rather than for the good of one man and his cronies.

And likewise, Abhisit and the Dems are not acting entirely for the good of the country - they also have their own interests to consider.

Bottom line is though, Abhisit and the Dems are the ones in power right now. Reds need to graciously accept this and stop dragging the country down into the mire. I'm sure if they are patient they will have their turn to dunk their snouts in the trough.

[animatic]

What do I want Abhisit to do?

Calmly consider the balances of alternative ways to end this stalemate that is wrecking the country.

If the reds fight back that is THEIR call to do that, but that makes the responsibility theirs to own.

All these baracades are kindling wood to 2-3 decent tanks, not as fighting platforms, but as armored bulldozers

These little bamboo thingies are toast in seconds not minutes.

Sleep deprivation, horrible sounds, rumors, cut water, block food resupply. Many things to run people out.

Siege mentality need not include flying soi dogs with anthrax flung in from catapults.

But there are many ways to make the location untenable.

[rixalex]

It just seems so easy to me. The Reds are barricading themselves in for a tough hand to hand battle. Why not cut off their food and water supplies? I am down here near the Ratchaprasong. The businesses in the area are locking their doors (hotels have "booted" guests out). Since the area businesses are closing anyway, shut off the water supply to the area. Blocking food brought in would be even easier.

The bottom line is if Abhisit wants to finish this with minimal casualties, cut food and water supplies wait a week (or less). Resistance would be minimal.

Indeed. This should have been initiated a week or so back. I wonder what stops them? Perhaps images of red supporters on their knees dehydrated and gasping for water might play into the red leaders' plans of making them out to be the victims at the hands of a cruel government. Propoganda is such a large part of what is fueling this situation that i guess the government has to be careful of how their actions will be used against them.

[LevelHead]

Being reported now, confirmation from forensic exams that the Japanese reporter was shot dead BY THE MILITARY SIDE, not the red side.

WHOOPS, oh dear, all those lies and propaganda are coming back to haunt now ??

Abhisit, you must step down surely ? or is there to be more of this nonsense. Perhaps a solider in "self defense" of not wanting to get caught on film shooting people shot the camera man, is that "self defense" and so ok Mark ?

[ChiangMaiFun]

It just seems so easy to me. The Reds are barricading themselves in for a tough hand to hand battle. Why not cut off their food and water supplies? I am down here near the Ratchaprasong. The businesses in the area are locking their doors (hotels have "booted" guests out). Since the area businesses are closing anyway, shut off the water supply to the area. Blocking food brought in would be even easier.

The bottom line is if Abhisit wants to finish this with minimal casualties, cut food and water supplies wait a week (or less). Resistance would be minimal.

Indeed. This should have been initiated a week or so back. I wonder what stops them? Perhaps images of red supporters on their knees dehydrated and gasping for water might play into the red leaders' plans of making them out to be the victims at the hands of a cruel government. Propoganda is such a large part of what is fueling this situation that i guess the government has to be careful of how their actions will be used against them.

Right... good idea... same same when yellows took over airport - cut off electric, cut off food, cut off sewerage, cut off water - I know you're going to hate me saying it but... you have to be evenhanded - if they had done it then everyone would support doing it now - I don't support it soley for that reason.

[anotherpeter]

Being reported now, confirmation from forensic exams that the Japanese reporter was shot dead BY THE MILITARY SIDE, not the red side.

WHOOPS, oh dear, all those lies and propaganda are coming back to haunt now ??

Abhisit, you must step down surely ? or is there to be more of this nonsense. Perhaps a solider in "self defense" of not wanting to get caught on film shooting people shot the camera man, is that "self defense" and so ok Mark ?

An quote in a newspaper from an unnamed source is hardly "confirmation".

Even if it is confirmed, the army haven't denied shooting in self defense. If they were retreating from violent attacks from the reds, then it's possible the reporter got caught in the cross fire.

The reporter's recordings were handed over to Reuters by the reds, so if there had been anything on it, it would have been all over the internet already.

[Publicus]

It just seems so easy to me. The Reds are barricading themselves in for a tough hand to hand battle. Why not cut off their food and water supplies? I am down here near the Ratchaprasong. The businesses in the area are locking their doors (hotels have "booted" guests out). Since the area businesses are closing anyway, shut off the water supply to the area. Blocking food brought in would be even easier.

The bottom line is if Abhisit wants to finish this with minimal casualties, cut food and water supplies wait a week (or less). Resistance would be minimal.

Indeed. This should have been initiated a week or so back. I wonder what stops them? Perhaps images of red supporters on their knees dehydrated and gasping for water might play into the red leaders' plans of making them out to be the victims at the hands of a cruel government. Propoganda is such a large part of what is fueling this situation that i guess the government has to be careful of how their actions will be used against them.

Yes, and there are a lot of residence buildings there too wherever the Redshirts are camping out. The psyke ops plan is good and the encirclement/blockading idea worthy but both are impractical in Thailand. I'm afraid Thailand is consigned by its culture, history, traditions to doing it in the Thai way, which is going to mean a literal bloody mess. Sad but I'm afraid true.

[rixalex]

Indeed. This should have been initiated a week or so back. I wonder what stops them? Perhaps images of red supporters on their knees dehydrated and gasping for water might play into the red leaders' plans of making them out to be the victims at the hands of a cruel government. Propoganda is such a large part of what is fueling this situation that i guess the government has to be careful of how their actions will be used against them.

Right... good idea... same same when yellows took over airport - cut off electric, cut off food, cut off sewerage, cut off water - I know you're going to hate me saying it but... you have to be evenhanded - if they had done it then everyone would support doing it now - I don't support it soley for that reason.

I don't hate you for saying that, but i am amazed that you do. A prior government deals with a situation poorly and so all future governments are beholden to do likewise, just in the interests of fair play?! It's laughable.

[britmaveric]

All these baracades are kindling wood to 2-3 decent tanks, not as fighting platforms, but as armored bulldozers

These little bamboo thingies are toast in seconds not minutes.

So true, however reds could be possibly driving said tanks, so prob not a good idea. Not to mention blow a tank's tracks and its useless hunk of junk. Reds seem to do a good job with the APC(s).

Ultimately Abhisit will resign and the govt will fall, house dissolved and elections will be called. No way out of this I'm afraid.

Edited April 21, 2010 by britmaveric