What Do You Want Pm Abhisit To Do Now?

[anotherpeter]

I have said consistently in my posts that I quite like Abhisit - but he has made a fundamental error of leadership by not publishing a roadmap (with dates) for an election within the next few months so he can get a mandate for his killing sprees - if it happens again he will never be forgiven and will come to regret his horrendous error of judgement.

Wouldn't a roadmap need to involve some negotiation with the red leaders?

[rixalex]

for an election within the next few months so he can get a mandate for his killing sprees

Killing sprees?!

Mouthpiece now for irresponisble pure-red propoganda.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I have said consistently in my posts that I quite like Abhisit - but he has made a fundamental error of leadership by not publishing a roadmap (with dates) for an election within the next few months so he can get a mandate for his killing sprees - if it happens again he will never be forgiven and will come to regret his horrendous error of judgement.

Wouldn't a roadmap need to involve some negotiation with the red leaders?

I actually don't think it would - if he announced an election withion three months - here are the dates - the reds would have NO cause for complaint and would lose all credibility if they opposed such a reasonable roadmap - he has fiddled and diddled while the crisis rumbles on - if he was decisive it would be over - but alas I think it may be too late for that...

[ChiangMaiFun]

for an election within the next few months so he can get a mandate for his killing sprees

Killing sprees?!

Mouthpiece now for irresponisble pure-red propoganda.

not at all.. he has no mandate to kill Thais - no mandate to govern - it's over but it's just that he hasn't realised it yet - it's no different than an Army coup - he even lives in the Army base and takes his orders from them no doubt - and who do 'they' serve?

[anotherpeter]

for an election within the next few months so he can get a mandate for his killing sprees

Killing sprees?!

Mouthpiece now for irresponisble pure-red propoganda.

not at all.. he has no mandate to kill Thais - no mandate to govern - it's over but it's just that he hasn't realised it yet - it's no different than an Army coup - he even lives in the Army base and takes his orders from them no doubt - and who do 'they' serve?

He has a mandate to govern. That's what being elected PM gives you.

Minorities don't always like that, but that doesn't give them the right to force elections.

[Ricardo]

I actually don't think it would - if he announced an election withion three months - here are the dates - the reds would have NO cause for complaint and would lose all credibility if they opposed such a reasonable roadmap - he has fiddled and diddled while the crisis rumbles on - if he was decisive it would be over - but alas I think it may be too late for that...

How about the reds meet him halfway, which would be February-2011, Whoops ... he already offered them December-2010 and they refused to budge an inch. No, the red-shirt trio already showed on TV, they have no intention of negotiating at all, and have thus lost all credibility as you say.

If only they were as reasonable as their supporters on ThaiVisa, I mean we'd never be threatening one another with death or burning the capital or destroying the BTS, we're more civilised and tolerant. But the red-shirt leaders aren't, however much you might hope they'd be, so your proposal simply won't fly.

[geriatrickid]

One thing to hope in this is that the Dems are responsible enough not to call their southern base out. Few who have followed Thai politcis doubt they would put a million on the street and eradicate the red mob in hours. However, thankfully this hasnt been resorted to. There are some poltiicians still responsible enough not to resort to mob violence

The Democrats wouldn't do any better than the Reds. Most people cannot afford to protest and those that can, cannot be bothered. Sorry, but welcome to the wonderful world of apathy. Remember the contested Constitution of 2007? It was supposed to have ignited such passion in the population. Not a big turn out to vote at 57% was it? Besides, the population demographics just doesn't support long term massive protests by a million person mass.

Where are all the hungry and poor people from the south then ? Not many of them.

I doubt if you have looked up one statistical source in your so-called observation.

Otherwise you wouldn't make such an embarrassingly obvious silly remark.

The subtext of course is that region = class.

Intellectually lazy.

Some of the poorest districts in Thailand are in the south usually fishermen areas.

Actually, the poorest districts in the south, are in the deep south, populated by the rebellious muslims. The deep south has no industrial base. Golly gee, there seems to be a similarity with the impoverished north east.

Give people prosperity and they will put aside protests. Give people hope and they will unite. That's the magic of Thaksin: He gives people who despair at their position, a chance to dream of something better. Maybe the dream is a mirage, but it is better than having nothing. This is where Abhisit has failed. He has not inspired hope nor said where he intends to go. A mission statement, a vision helps. Look at the successful democratic leaders: They bring hope where there is none.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I actually don't think it would - if he announced an election withion three months - here are the dates - the reds would have NO cause for complaint and would lose all credibility if they opposed such a reasonable roadmap - he has fiddled and diddled while the crisis rumbles on - if he was decisive it would be over - but alas I think it may be too late for that...

How about the reds meet him halfway, which would be February-2011, Whoops ... he already offered them December-2010 and they refused to budge an inch. No, the red-shirt trio already showed on TV, they have no intention of negotiating at all, and have thus lost all credibility as you say.

If only they were as reasonable as their supporters on ThaiVisa, I mean we'd never be threatening one another with death or burning the capital or destroying the BTS, we're more civilised and tolerant. But the red-shirt leaders aren't, however much you might hope they'd be, so your proposal simply won't fly.

I honestly believe it would have - a TV announcement of elections to be held within three months would have taken the 'fire' out of the situation and, I believe, those people may not have died... they are going to be held anyway - so it's delaying the inevitable - we don't want anymore deaths or injuries - on either side.

This is not a pi**ing competition - it's people lives - it's not about the government 'saving face' - or is it???

[anotherpeter]

I honestly believe it would have - a TV announcement of elections to be held within three months would have taken the 'fire' out of the situation and, I believe, those people may not have died... they are going to be held anyway - so it's delaying the inevitable - we don't want anymore deaths or injuries - on either side.

This is not a pi**ing competition - it's people lives - it's not about the government 'saving face' - or is it???

Why should any government do what a violent minority mob asks them to do?

If the government wilt, this problem will just be moved to the next government.

[midas]

I honestly believe it would have - a TV announcement of elections to be held within three months would have taken the 'fire' out of the situation and, I believe, those people may not have died... they are going to be held anyway - so it's delaying the inevitable - we don't want anymore deaths or injuries - on either side.

This is not a pi**ing competition - it's people lives - it's not about the government 'saving face' - or is it???

Why should any government do what a violent minority mob asks them to do?

If the government wilt, this problem will just be moved to the next government.

But an election will show up who exactly is the " minority mob " and that is why Abhist clings to power

[ChiangMaiFun]

I honestly believe it would have - a TV announcement of elections to be held within three months would have taken the 'fire' out of the situation and, I believe, those people may not have died... they are going to be held anyway - so it's delaying the inevitable - we don't want anymore deaths or injuries - on either side.

This is not a pi**ing competition - it's people lives - it's not about the government 'saving face' - or is it???

Why should any government do what a violent minority mob asks them to do?

If the government wilt, this problem will just be moved to the next government.

The point is that it is cleary not 'a violent minority' but a very large part of the country knows this government has no mandate

[anotherpeter]

I honestly believe it would have - a TV announcement of elections to be held within three months would have taken the 'fire' out of the situation and, I believe, those people may not have died... they are going to be held anyway - so it's delaying the inevitable - we don't want anymore deaths or injuries - on either side.

This is not a pi**ing competition - it's people lives - it's not about the government 'saving face' - or is it???

Why should any government do what a violent minority mob asks them to do?

If the government wilt, this problem will just be moved to the next government.

The point is that it is cleary not 'a violent minority' but a very large part of the country knows this government has no mandate

It is a minority. It might be a large group, but it is still a minority.

The government was elected the same as the previous 2 (Samak and Somchai) governments - using coaltions.

The problem is that this large minority doesn't understand that. Even the large minority on TVF don't understand that.

[wayfarer108]

Where are all the hungry and poor people from the south then ? Not many of them.

One thing to hope in this is that the Dems are responsible enough not to call their southern base out. Few who have followed Thai politcis doubt they would put a million on the street and eradicate the red mob in hours. However, thankfully this hasnt been resorted to. There are some poltiicians still responsible enough not to resort to mob violence

Yes, I agree with that point. For the most part Abhisit is a responsible human being however I just dont understand why he allowed the army, who are clearly gearing up for a showdown, to move in when he knows the likely outcome are casualties. If scores of innocent people die I will never forgive him.

I have said consistently in my posts that I quite like Abhisit - but he has made a fundamental error of leadership by not publishing a roadmap (with dates) for an election within the next few months so he can get a mandate for his killing sprees - if it happens again he will never be forgiven and will come to regret his horrendous error of judgement.

Killing spree? By Seh Daeng's black guard, the tactical vanguard of the proletariat? You have it backwards.

[wayfarer108]

Give people prosperity and they will put aside protests. Give people hope and they will unite. That's the magic of Thaksin: He gives people who despair at their position, a chance to dream of something better. Maybe the dream is a mirage, but it is better than having nothing. This is where Abhisit has failed. He has not inspired hope nor said where he intends to go. A mission statement, a vision helps. Look at the successful democratic leaders: They bring hope where there is none.

I suppose the Abhisit administration's establishment of free education for the first time in Thai history, the propagation of the first-ever property tax laws and the doing away of the 30-baht fee so that health care is now free, don't count as vision?

Thaksin put the country further in debt, abused human rights left and right and not only did not attempt to increase a tax base for social programs, he backed legislation enabling him to pocket a vast piece of personal wealth that should have become public tax revenue. Hardly visionary, more Hitler-style populism.

As for the Red perception: Not a mirage. More like self-delusion. And one shared by a minority of Thais, despite propaganda trying to make it seem otherwise.

[Ricardo]

I actually don't think it would - if he announced an election withion three months - here are the dates - the reds would have NO cause for complaint and would lose all credibility if they opposed such a reasonable roadmap - he has fiddled and diddled while the crisis rumbles on - if he was decisive it would be over - but alas I think it may be too late for that...

How about the reds meet him halfway, which would be February-2011, Whoops ... he already offered them December-2010 and they refused to budge an inch. No, the red-shirt trio already showed on TV, they have no intention of negotiating at all, and have thus lost all credibility as you say.

If only they were as reasonable as their supporters on ThaiVisa, I mean we'd never be threatening one another with death or burning the capital or destroying the BTS, we're more civilised and tolerant. But the red-shirt leaders aren't, however much you might hope they'd be, so your proposal simply won't fly.

I honestly believe it would have - a TV announcement of elections to be held within three months would have taken the 'fire' out of the situation and, I believe, those people may not have died... they are going to be held anyway - so it's delaying the inevitable - we don't want anymore deaths or injuries - on either side.

This is not a pi**ing competition - it's people lives - it's not about the government 'saving face' - or is it???

No, I don't think Abhisit offered elections a year early, in order to save government face, it was a genuine & reasoned offer.

But why weren't the red-shirt leaders empowered to accept a little bit longer, than 15 days to dissolution, meaning an election within 75-90 days ? Whose face was that utter-refusal about ? Was that refusal really worth the lives of the troops & supporters who subsequently died ?

One can't just put the blame for this solely on Abhisit, I'm afraid.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I actually don't think it would - if he announced an election withion three months - here are the dates - the reds would have NO cause for complaint and would lose all credibility if they opposed such a reasonable roadmap - he has fiddled and diddled while the crisis rumbles on - if he was decisive it would be over - but alas I think it may be too late for that...

How about the reds meet him halfway, which would be February-2011, Whoops ... he already offered them December-2010 and they refused to budge an inch. No, the red-shirt trio already showed on TV, they have no intention of negotiating at all, and have thus lost all credibility as you say.

If only they were as reasonable as their supporters on ThaiVisa, I mean we'd never be threatening one another with death or burning the capital or destroying the BTS, we're more civilised and tolerant. But the red-shirt leaders aren't, however much you might hope they'd be, so your proposal simply won't fly.

I honestly believe it would have - a TV announcement of elections to be held within three months would have taken the 'fire' out of the situation and, I believe, those people may not have died... they are going to be held anyway - so it's delaying the inevitable - we don't want anymore deaths or injuries - on either side.

This is not a pi**ing competition - it's people lives - it's not about the government 'saving face' - or is it???

No, I don't think Abhisit offered elections a year early, in order to save government face, it was a genuine & reasoned offer.

But why weren't the red-shirt leaders empowered to accept a little bit longer, than 15 days to dissolution, meaning an election within 75-90 days ? Whose face was that utter-refusal about ? Was that refusal really worth the lives of the troops & supporters who subsequently died ?

One can't just put the blame for this solely on Abhisit, I'm afraid.

I'm not trying to be vexacious but 'genuine and reasoned offer' for what reason? he knew it would be rejected - so why offer it unless he was prepared to come down further. Far better to show the country real Statesmanship - go on TV - call an early election 'to get the peoples mandate' - he might just get it - if he could get international observers all the better - if he won - he would get most peoples support - right now he is on the edge of a cliff wondering whether to jump or be pushed - Thais will not forget the deaths and will not forget the carnage - he really could have avoided it all - he know he really is not there because people want him to be - he is there because of skullduggery and coniving by turncoat MPs.

NOW is the hour - where is the man?

[Asa]

I blame it on Abhisit for his incompetence double standard government, for his greed of power, for sacrificing our tax money through corruptions, for spending lives of people and soldiers to hold on to his chair by the days. I want him to dissolve the parliament and return power to the people. It can instantly save lives and economy. The country future is not his alone. He does not have my right to decide live and death of any one of people. He won’t need armed forces to disperse the Red, if he does his duty to initiate rounds and rounds of negotiation.

I wish that he feels the guilt to the day he dies for his part in sending people and soldiers to their bloodiest death, for raising fear and distrust among Thai, and worsening economy. I reserve my right to curse the Red leaders too.

[scorecard]

Give people prosperity and they will put aside protests. Give people hope and they will unite. That's the magic of Thaksin: He gives people who despair at their position, a chance to dream of something better. Maybe the dream is a mirage, but it is better than having nothing. This is where Abhisit has failed. He has not inspired hope nor said where he intends to go. A mission statement, a vision helps. Look at the successful democratic leaders: They bring hope where there is none.

I suppose the Abhisit administration's establishment of free education for the first time in Thai history, the propagation of the first-ever property tax laws and the doing away of the 30-baht fee so that health care is now free, don't count as vision?

Thaksin put the country further in debt, abused human rights left and right and not only did not attempt to increase a tax base for social programs, he backed legislation enabling him to pocket a vast piece of personal wealth that should have become public tax revenue. Hardly visionary, more Hitler-style populism.

As for the Red perception: Not a mirage. More like self-delusion. And one shared by a minority of Thais, despite propaganda trying to make it seem otherwise.

And did you see that yesterday thaksin told the press he hasn't been appearing on video/phone links for about 2 weeks is because the udd have gone way past his orders.

[rixalex]

I'm not trying to be vexacious but 'genuine and reasoned offer' for what reason? he knew it would be rejected

How did he know it would be rejected? It was a big compromise on his part. The reds could have acknowleged that and shown a desire to continue dialogue. They didn't. They simply rejected it out of hand and refused to return to the talks.

Far better to show the country real Statesmanship

Giving in to threats of disruption and violence isn't what i'd call statesmanship - more like weakness.

[rixalex]

I want him to dissolve the parliament and return power to the people. It can instantly save lives and economy.

Simplistic, naive, short-term thinking.

You support perpetuating the circle of minority groups dictating the future of the country. Your "solution" guarantees a bleak future for some years to come at the very least. Pro-democracy? Nah, pro-mob rule is all it is.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I'm not trying to be vexacious but 'genuine and reasoned offer' for what reason? he knew it would be rejected

How did he know it would be rejected? It was a big compromise on his part. The reds could have acknowleged that and shown a desire to continue dialogue. They didn't. They simply rejected it out of hand and refused to return to the talks.

Far better to show the country real Statesmanship

Giving in to threats of disruption and violence isn't what i'd call statesmanship - more like weakness.

I confess if I were a 'red' I would have negotiated beyond their 15 day demand - and so I think tactically they didn't do a grand job. However, it is beholden upon the PM to rise above that and to show real leadership - he could have done so - an 'address the nation' speech setting out the roadmap to peace and elections - and poured gallons of water on the fire - he chose (or was told) not too.

[rixalex]

I confess if I were a 'red' I would have negotiated beyond their 15 day demand - and so I think tactically they didn't do a grand job. However, it is beholden upon the PM to rise above that and to show real leadership - he could have done so - an 'address the nation' speech setting out the roadmap to peace and elections - and poured gallons of water on the fire - he chose (or was told) not too.

I get what you are saying but perhaps Abhisit's thinking was he didn't want to commit himself to a massive compromise on his part if the reds were simply going to continue their protests. If he did that and then they returned to the negotiating table he would be doing so from a much weaker starting point that would probably result in the reds getting exactly as they originally demanded - elections immediately. Negotiations are a two-way street. Abhisit made a move in their direction. Ball was/is in their court. If they are unable to accept compromise of any sort they don't deserve to be offered any.

[RussellHantz]

I want him to dissolve the parliament and return power to the people. It can instantly save lives and economy.

Simplistic, naive, short-term thinking.

You support perpetuating the circle of minority groups dictating the future of the country. Your "solution" guarantees a bleak future for some years to come at the very least. Pro-democracy? Nah, pro-mob rule is all it is.

Surely you realise your yellow hypocrisy, don't you ?

[Asa]

Abhsit, at this very moment is writing a dark page of his own regretable history which cannot be erased... no matter how we look at it... This need no intelligence, a common senses will do.

[RussellHantz]

Abhsit, at this very moment is writing a dark page of his own regretable history which cannot be erased... no matter how we look at it... This need no intelligence, a common senses will do.

I agree.

I can't help but think he has been thoroughly used and abused by his masters.

He will never be remembered as a good leader, just an weak and stubborn fool with blood on his hands.

[rixalex]

I want him to dissolve the parliament and return power to the people. It can instantly save lives and economy.

Simplistic, naive, short-term thinking.

You support perpetuating the circle of minority groups dictating the future of the country. Your "solution" guarantees a bleak future for some years to come at the very least. Pro-democracy? Nah, pro-mob rule is all it is.

Surely you realise your yellow hypocrisy, don't you ?

Yellow hypocrisy has nothing to do with my position, as neither does red hypocrisy.

[Asa]

I want him to dissolve the parliament and return power to the people. It can instantly save lives and economy.

Simplistic, naive, short-term thinking.

You support perpetuating the circle of minority groups dictating the future of the country. Your "solution" guarantees a bleak future for some years to come at the very least. Pro-democracy? Nah, pro-mob rule is all it is.

Yes, we are alerady in a blackhole with minority groups dictating us toward bleak future.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Abhsit, at this very moment is writing a dark page of his own regretable history which cannot be erased... no matter how we look at it... This need no intelligence, a common senses will do.

I agree.

I can't help but think he has been thoroughly used and abused by his masters.

He will never be remembered as a good leader, just an weak and stubborn fool with blood on his hands.

agreed - and the crazy thing... he could have been very good - Thais will never forgive him

[rixalex]

Thais will never forgive him

Two presumptions: one, that all Thais hold him to blame - certainly not true; two, that you speak for all Thais - not true either.

[rixalex]

I want him to dissolve the parliament and return power to the people. It can instantly save lives and economy.

Simplistic, naive, short-term thinking.

You support perpetuating the circle of minority groups dictating the future of the country. Your "solution" guarantees a bleak future for some years to come at the very least. Pro-democracy? Nah, pro-mob rule is all it is.

Yes, we are alerady in a blackhole with minority groups dictating us toward bleak future.

It's a blackhole that you seemingly readily support.