Thai Government Hangs By A Thread

[TheOldWolf]

From the New York Times a real newspaper of record.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/asia/11thai.html

Not hard to guess why this guy didn't want a picture taken,

doesn't fit in well with the peaceful reds image,

nor with blaming the army for all deaths.

Change your Rhetoric even Abhisit and Anupong are not accusing the Reds!!!

THE NATION: PM: "Our task is separate the terrorists from the innocent protesters."

[dttk0009]

From the New York Times a real newspaper of record.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/asia/11thai.html

Not hard to guess why this guy didn't want a picture taken,

doesn't fit in well with the peaceful reds image,

nor with blaming the army for all deaths.

Change your Rhetoric even Abhisit and Anupong are not accusing the Reds!!!

THE NATION: PM: "Our task is separate the terrorists from the innocent protesters."

Fantastic statement. I think this should be the first and foremost priority. I personally think there are numerous agent provocateur involved in this conflict that lead to a lot of the snowballing violence. The person pictured above has the word "ARMY" on a small pouch of some sort near his waistline, yet he's using non-standard military equipment. There's speculation that separatists from the south have made their way up here. Who knows which faction this guy belongs to. A third party even? I'm holding my breath on any opinions until all the smoke clears and some real data, autopsies, arrests and inquiries have been made about the incident.

[ChiangMaiFun]

From the New York Times a real newspaper of record.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/asia/11thai.html

Not hard to guess why this guy didn't want a picture taken,

doesn't fit in well with the peaceful reds image,

nor with blaming the army for all deaths.

and you jump to conclusions again... he's not a red -something odd is going on and even the Army etc. are not claiming he's (she's?) a red but you seek to tarnish the reds name again with unproven material and lack of facts

[ChiangMaiFun]

From the New York Times a real newspaper of record.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/asia/11thai.html

Not hard to guess why this guy didn't want a picture taken,

doesn't fit in well with the peaceful reds image,

nor with blaming the army for all deaths.

Change your Rhetoric even Abhisit and Anupong are not accusing the Reds!!!

THE NATION: PM: "Our task is separate the terrorists from the innocent protesters."

if he (she?) was red they would show it clearly - this person is probably from the South - please don't jump to conclusions

[jdinasia]

if he (she?) was red they would show it clearly - this person is probably from the South - please don't jump to conclusions

LOL

2 statements

1) "this person is probably from the South"

2) "please don't jump to conclusions"

The guy was in a red controlled area walking freely ----

[ChiangMaiFun]

if he (she?) was red they would show it clearly - this person is probably from the South - please don't jump to conclusions

LOL

2 statements

1) "this person is probably from the South"

2) "please don't jump to conclusions"

The guy was in a red controlled area walking freely ----

We do not know the full facts - the government has said they think he is not connected to the reds - and I believe another poster said the Army accepts this too? Things are chaotic out there - not too difficult to walk freely amongst the protesters I would think - I would not be surprised it was 'another' agency - we don't know...

...or you think you do know? Maybe you have read the ballistic reports or the Police report? Or maybe the autopsies? Wiser to wait and see?

I say this in all seriousness - if it's proved (you know that word right?) it was a red I would be 100% condemning of it.

[ChiangMaiFun]

if he (she?) was red they would show it clearly - this person is probably from the South - please don't jump to conclusions

LOL

2 statements

1) "this person is probably from the South"

2) "please don't jump to conclusions"

The guy was in a red controlled area walking freely ----

Statement by the PM - I suppose you will not be man enoiugh to admit you may be wrong?

A group of armed "terrorists" were among the red-shirt protesters on Saturday night and instigated the bloodshed in the hope of forcing a change in the country's administration, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said on Monday.

The prime minister said this a statement on televison about 2.05pm.

[jdinasia]

CMF --- you jumped to conclusions and suggested it wasn't a red (wandering around in the red controlled areas) But instead was someone from the South.... so much for not jumping to conclusions.

The red guards wear black --- Sae Daeng's group of "ronin" wear black --- we have seen photos of men in black wandering freely amongst the reds (with armed reds around them) ---- but really ---- they aren't Red right?

[termad]

From the New York Times a real newspaper of record.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/asia/11thai.html

Not hard to guess why this guy didn't want a picture taken,

doesn't fit in well with the peaceful reds image,

nor with blaming the army for all deaths.

The picture doesn't matter it could be anybody so why would he object to having his picture taken. He isn't wearing anything red and he doesn't have a sign on his chest saying REDSHIRT. So how exactly have you deduced that he is in fact a Redshirt?

[ChiangMaiFun]

CMF --- you jumped to conclusions and suggested it wasn't a red (wandering around in the red controlled areas) But instead was someone from the South.... so much for not jumping to conclusions.

The red guards wear black --- Sae Daeng's group of "ronin" wear black --- we have seen photos of men in black wandering freely amongst the reds (with armed reds around them) ---- but really ---- they aren't Red right?

Read the PMs statement - try to retain a smidgen of rationality and balance (tough I know)

[TheOldWolf]

From the New York Times a real newspaper of record.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/asia/11thai.html

Not hard to guess why this guy didn't want a picture taken,

doesn't fit in well with the peaceful reds image,

nor with blaming the army for all deaths.

The picture doesn't matter it could be anybody so why would he object to having his picture taken. He isn't wearing anything red and he doesn't have a sign on his chest saying REDSHIRT. So how exactly have you deduced that he is in fact a Redshirt?

If you read the article I think you could admit that there are a LITTLE chance his a red shirt

[ChiangMaiFun]

From the New York Times a real newspaper of record.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/asia/11thai.html

Not hard to guess why this guy didn't want a picture taken,

doesn't fit in well with the peaceful reds image,

nor with blaming the army for all deaths.

The picture doesn't matter it could be anybody so why would he object to having his picture taken. He isn't wearing anything red and he doesn't have a sign on his chest saying REDSHIRT. So how exactly have you deduced that he is in fact a Redshirt?

JD doesn't care about that - nor his hero's statement - here it is:

• Published: 12/04/2010 at 03:06 PM tweetmeme_url = window.location; tweetmeme_service = 'digg.com'; tweetmeme_source = "BPgeneralnews";
  

A group of armed "terrorists" were among the red-shirt protesters on Saturday night and instigated the bloodshed in the hope of forcing a change in the country's administration, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said on Monday.The prime minister said this a statement on televison about 2.05pm.

His statement repeated Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban's earlier remarks about "armed men" mingling with the protesters on Saturday.

Mr Abhisit said there was clear evidence which pointed to there being "terrorists" among the innocent people demanding democracy.

The Centre for Public Administration in Emergency Situations (CPAES) was now working toward differentiating these terrorists from the protesters.

"I would like to ask all the innocent people not to cooperate with these elements. Once we can differentiate the terrorists from the people, we can formulate proper measures to solve the problem," Mr Abhisit said.

[Tony121]

From the New York Times a real newspaper of record.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/asia/11thai.html

Not hard to guess why this guy didn't want a picture taken,

doesn't fit in well with the peaceful reds image,

nor with blaming the army for all deaths.

The picture doesn't matter it could be anybody so why would he object to having his picture taken. He isn't wearing anything red and he doesn't have a sign on his chest saying REDSHIRT. So how exactly have you deduced that he is in fact a Redshirt?

If you read the article I think you could admit that there are a LITTLE chance his a red shirt

What about if you read what is written under the photo ?

[danc]

A group of armed "terrorists" were among the red-shirt protesters on Saturday night and instigated the bloodshed in the hope of forcing a change in the country's administration, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said on Monday.

Ok then - at least that's all sorted then....We were all very confused but you have at least managed to put us right.It wasn' t the army, it was sort of the Reds, well amongst the Reds so as good as the Reds..but it sure wasn't us.In fact what we'll do is take over all the TV channels for a while to absolutely and independently illustrate our point that it was not us , now that we have had the autopsy.

On the other hand...High-powered rifles can only be used by specially trained gunmen particularly in the army (The Nation)

Spin and counter spin and more spin - people are dead, the situation is no nearer any kind of easing and it is the time for point scoring....I am sorry but as an observer of ambivalent hue this does seem like great statemanship by Abhisit to get involved with this kind of tit for tat.

[Eclipse]

From the New York Times a real newspaper of record.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/asia/11thai.html

Not hard to guess why this guy didn't want a picture taken,

doesn't fit in well with the peaceful reds image,

nor with blaming the army for all deaths.

The picture doesn't matter it could be anybody so why would he object to having his picture taken. He isn't wearing anything red and he doesn't have a sign on his chest saying REDSHIRT. So how exactly have you deduced that he is in fact a Redshirt?

If you read the article I think you could admit that there are a LITTLE chance his a red shirt

What about if you read what is written under the photo ?

"A security man for the antigovernment protesters in Bangkok, who wear red shirts, objected on Saturday to being photographed carrying a rifle"

Edited April 12, 2010 by Eclipse

[MrWiggle]

I would like to simply add to IJustWannareach's calls for factual comments here.

No good filling this space with rubbish and inyourendos...

[britmaveric]

^goodluck on that MrWiggle.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Maybe there were some terrorists but now they cannot be responsible of everything.

Particularly the Soldiers with fake or real rubber bullets have done nothing?

The terrorists were amidst the Red Shirts ... So, they are responsible for the deaths of Soldiers, but for Civilians ?

As suggested the issue of the rubber bullets has to be studied seriously; which make? Which specification? weapons have to be modified or get an accessory for shooting the rubber bullets? How they proceed to shoot live round and rubber round one after the other? Too much precipitation to cover everything with the terrorists story: it seems not clear, probably response to International Pressure.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[danc]

A group of armed "terrorists" were among the red-shirt protesters on Saturday night and instigated the bloodshed in the hope of forcing a change in the country's administration, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said on Monday.

I hope this is factual enough MrWiggle - as factual as I have ever seen anything..how stupid for all of us to have missed it, when we have all the facts in front of us....armed terrorists caused all the trouble - well, at least that is sorted, tied up and put to bed.

Edited April 12, 2010 by danc

[hextac]

From the New York Times a real newspaper of record.

She seems awfully isolated, where is everyone else?

[elcent]

oh my, the gov hangs on a thread and the rest on ropes.

now I understand why ASTV had/has it's studio decorated with hanging ropes from the ceiling.

[animatic]

From the New York Times a real newspaper of record.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/asia/11thai.html

Not hard to guess why this guy didn't want a picture taken,

doesn't fit in well with the peaceful reds image,

nor with blaming the army for all deaths.

Change your Rhetoric even Abhisit and Anupong are not accusing the Reds!!!

THE NATION: PM: "Our task is separate the terrorists from the innocent protesters."

if he (she?) was red they would show it clearly - this person is probably from the South - please don't jump to conclusions

Don't jump to conclusions, yeah right, not if it hurts your position.

As JD said, he was walking freely in red lines with a major piece of hardware, and not wanting to be photographed..

And the NYTimes picks it up... you tell the Times not to draw a conclusion.

This guy is a walking conclusion.

Edited April 12, 2010 by animatic

[midas]

Has anyone else spotted this in the general section ( courtesy of Ta22 ) thank you Ta22 !

" here is a video of the dear -- PM eating his own words

- if you can understand Thai - he said something like - how Gov must take responsible by resigning .. Everyone all BUT HIM "

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Abhisit-s-Co...pl-t355684.html

[elcent]

hold your breath

The Election Commission told a press conference that it voted 4:5 to request the Constitution Court's order to dissolve the Democrat Party.

The party was accused of having unlawfully obtained donations from TPI Polene.

In the next step, the EC will pass on the case to the Office of the Attorney-General to consider before sending the case to the Constitution Court.

The Nation

[ChiangMaiFun]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/asia/11thai.html

Not hard to guess why this guy didn't want a picture taken,

doesn't fit in well with the peaceful reds image,

nor with blaming the army for all deaths.

Change your Rhetoric even Abhisit and Anupong are not accusing the Reds!!!

THE NATION: PM: "Our task is separate the terrorists from the innocent protesters."

if he (she?) was red they would show it clearly - this person is probably from the South - please don't jump to conclusions

Don't jump to conclusions, yeah right, not if it hurts your position.

As JD said, he was walking freely in red lines with a major piece of hardware, and not wanting to be photographed..

And the NYTimes picks it up... you tell the Times not to draw a conclusion.

This guy is a walking conclusion.

You obviously disagree with the PMs statement then and the Deputy PMs conclusions - bit odd coming from you I must say.

[brahmburgers]

well... Abhisit could have shown more leadership - and say 'I am for Thailand - any colour or hue - and I believe it is in the best interests of our nation to hold an election in three months.... forgive my prose - but something along those lines may have diffused the situation

You're putting words in to Abhisit's mouth, and you're talking reasonably. Yes, Abhisit has been v. patient and reasonable. But hey, look at what happened last week at the sit down discussions. One man (plus one behind-the-scenes man) decided in an instant that they wouldn't accept a compromise and furthermore, they wouldn't negotiate any more. Remember that? Don't pretend these people talk in reasoned tones. They don't. The Reds were itching for confrontation, and that's what they're getting.

Who knows which faction this guy belongs to. A third party even? I'm holding my breath on any opinions until all the smoke clears and some real data, autopsies, arrests and inquiries have been made about the incident.

You assume autopsies and reasoned analysis of photos and evidence will clear things up. This is Thailand. Reality doesn't work that way. All is based on lies and emotion, with just a bit of window dressing to make it appear legit. It's like dealing with 4 year olds. Even it they're caught with their fingers in the cookie jar, they'll have a long list of excuses why they either weren't near the jar or why they were forced to put their hand in there or...... whatever else to avoid the truth. Even before the protests started, the Reds were saying "if there's any violence, then it will probably be from Yellows dressed as Reds, .....etc." Excuses flow like cheap beer in Thailand. A movement steeped in telling lies and not accepting responsibility (with Thaksin as their poster boy) is not going to admit anything that may tarnish their cause.

[hextac]

Don't jump to conclusions, yeah right, not if it hurts your position.

It's OK to do so if it helps your "position" though?

Remember all that "if it walks like a duck" crap you were spouting a few weeks back?

It says "ARMY" on the leg gear, and she seems to be flashing a badge. Quack quack?

[brahmburgers]

ChiangMaiFun, please clean up your posts so there are proper quote marks preceding unquote marks. If you won't/can't do that, then your posts are difficult to read.

[MKAsok]

hold your breath

The Election Commission told a press conference that it voted 4:5 to request the Constitution Court's order to dissolve the Democrat Party.

The party was accused of having unlawfully obtained donations from TPI Polene.

In the next step, the EC will pass on the case to the Office of the Attorney-General to consider before sending the case to the Constitution Court.

The Nation

Or rather don't hold your breath, since this will take months to get to the Constitution Court. Also hearing via Twitter that the PAD are planning a rally for the 18th. Anyone have any more info on this?

[Thai at Heart]

One factoid that's been overlooked is that when the constitution was changed by the military coup makers, they made that stupid stipulation that if any candidate is found guilty of election fraud, then the leaders of that party be reprimanded and disallowed from politics for 5 years.

BTW, the coup makers didn't have to change the Constitution, but they didn't know that. They automatically thought they had to, because every previous coup had done that. The earlier constitution was ok.

Anyhow, if that provision (to disbar the top echelon for 5 years) hadn't been there, then the Red movement would have had less impetus.

I personally don't like any of the TRT or PPP leaders who were banned, but I still think it was unfair when that happened. In case you need a refresher, the ban was announced/instated during the Yellow rally at the big airport.

Thais need to learn to accept who is elected, and go on with their lives. If they want a change, they can campaign or whatever at the next election cycle. Let's hope that idea takes hold. Best of all is to see real election campaigns (with debates, without fear of defamation suits!) , with free and open elections.

Maybe Thailand is inching towards real democracy, but the Reds aren't hastening that. The Reds are showing how unruly mobs can dictate political policy in Thailand. The yellows did some of that, but the Yellows didn't devolve to violence en masse during their demonstrations.

Very interesting. I hadn't noticed that that bit of the constitution was added only under the coup constitution. As for what they didn't or didn't legally know, surely the army has quite a bit of experience in this. By now there should be "Coup 101" for officer candidates.

Is it right then that the laws that banned the TRT executive were brought in during the coup but were backdated to cover cases of fraud prior to the new constitution or only cases in the election after the coup? If so, it would be extremely likely that such laws would never have come into existence if left to parliament.

It is a very very harsh law and I whilst I believe in clearing up corruption in politics, too ban an entire party executive for one person's wrongdoing is too harsh.

I also believe that the downhill slide into unruly mobs is an ongoing escalation started by the PAD. Mob rule has been proven to be effective. Since the army can't appear to clear the streets without fatalities, negotiation is the only way out.