Farangs Buying Property In Thailand

[neverdie]

this topic seems to come up every other day here and clearly people are too lazy to do a search before posting the same old questions.

searching the words 'usufruct' or 'land ownership' etc would yield a wealth of valuable information from previous posters so I think we need to be reminding people of this before typing the same old, same old over and over again.

Indeed. A thai visa search will reveal all.

[pkrv]

this topic seems to come up every other day here and clearly people are too lazy to do a search before posting the same old questions.

searching the words 'usufruct' or 'land ownership' etc would yield a wealth of valuable information from previous posters so I think we need to be reminding people of this before typing the same old, same old over and over again.

Indeed. A thai visa search will reveal all.

Taking a look at the pinned thread on The Condominium Act And Definition Of A Condominium In Thailand would also help. This is also property ownership and is acknowledged by Thai Law. I wish people would stop confusing the issue of an English Mans home is his castle (land etc) and property ownership.

[stgrhe]

I'm planning to build a house in the next couple of years. I will be getting married later this year so will be married at the time of land purchase.

Our plan is to buy the land wholly in my missus' name and then build the house in my name (by building new it allows us to separate the two things - I will own the building, but not the land it stands on, and her the land, but with a building on it not owned by her). I also plan to take out a 30 year lease on the land alongside a usufruct in case I should live longer than 30 years!

Since you are not married yet you should register the usufruct before you register your marriage. Then, there is no need for you to register a land lease but you should consider register a superficies in addition to the usufruct. The superficies is the only encumbrance that specifically states that you can build a house in your name on someone else's land, and make sure the building permit is made in your name.

[bkk_mike]

I know virtually nobody can actually do this, but isn't there still the BOI option.

i.e. If setting up an office / factory under Board of Investment approval you can get 1 rai of land (not coastal) for building a private residence on. I'm not sure how much baht you need to be investing to get BOI approval, but it would be significant.

It's the only exception for actual land purchase in a foreigner's own name that I know of. Although in thus case given you'd be setting up a company here, it's probably easier to havethe company own the land as nobody's going to say that a company employing enough people for BOI approval is asham company just to get around land ownership laws.

[johnnyk]

I know virtually nobody can actually do this, but isn't there still the BOI option.

i.e. If setting up an office / factory under Board of Investment approval you can get 1 rai of land (not coastal) for building a private residence on. I'm not sure how much baht you need to be investing to get BOI approval, but it would be significant. 40,000,000 (Forty million)

It's the only exception for actual land purchase in a foreigner's own name that I know of. Although in thus case given you'd be setting up a company here, it's probably easier to havethe company own the land as nobody's going to say that a company employing enough people for BOI approval is asham company just to get around land ownership laws.

[chiangmaibruce]

this topic seems to come up every other day here and clearly people are too lazy to do a search before posting the same old questions.

searching the words 'usufruct' or 'land ownership' etc would yield a wealth of valuable information from previous posters so I think we need to be reminding people of this before typing the same old, same old over and over again.

Agreed. It is also scary how many foreigners I hear of that don't even start to investigate these issues until they are looking at property, or even negotiating on land.

The thaivisa search function takes a bit of practice but will yield valuable results. There are also search engines like yahoo, bing and google that will generate leads to sources like the web sites of Thai law firms or gov't depts - again plenty of useful info there to be had for free. Or if you want something interesting to read on the plane then try this book: www.silkwormbooks.com/catalog/info/investment-guide-thailand

[SantiSuk]

I just bought the land and paid for the house and gave it to my wife . So much simpler if you can restrict your spending to something you can afford to lose than all this heartache over how secure is my interest if it all goes tits up. Not possible for those on tight means I know but maybe worth reminding those with decent money that you can get too wrapped up in legalities.

Edited May 3, 2010 by SantiSuk

[torrenova]

I just bought the land and paid for the house and gave it to my wife . So much simpler if you can restrict your spending to something you can afford to lose than all this heartache over how secure is my interest if it all goes tits up. Not possible for those on tight means I know but maybe worth reminding those with decent money that you can get too wrapped up in legalities.

Not many blokes who have spent a lifetime accumulating wealth are so eager to drop part of it on someone. Would you seriously give a woman back home an asset worth so much after knowing her so long ? Like hel_l would you. Then again, back home you ain't getting what she is giving. Big head, not small head, remember.

[humbug]

why you want to buy thai property

2003-2005 was the perfect storm for thai property, when that happens again who knows

but buying thai property now is like dead money, whose going buy it of you nowadays

theres no longer the risk premium here as before because of the expanding thai stockmarket, the thai stockmarket is in limbo and so are the property

the prices charged are wishful thinking trying a scam to keep prices skyhigh to give an insane impression especially in bangkok that everyhting is a ok, well its not and that thai property is highly speculative now, so best to invest what you can afford to lose

[Jonny B]

I just bought the land and paid for the house and gave it to my wife . So much simpler if you can restrict your spending to something you can afford to lose than all this heartache over how secure is my interest if it all goes tits up. Not possible for those on tight means I know but maybe worth reminding those with decent money that you can get too wrapped up in legalities.

Not many blokes who have spent a lifetime accumulating wealth are so eager to drop part of it on someone. Would you seriously give a woman back home an asset worth so much after knowing her so long ? Like hel_l would you. Then again, back home you ain't getting what she is giving. Big head, not small head, remember.

yes your both correct but i think torrenova makes a good point about only investing as much as your willing to lose and keep some back up cash in your own account somewhere, it does make things alot easier. even if you lost that it would probably still be far less than what you would have to pay out your farang wife back home if you spilt up.

[TigerWan]

I've been driving around mid and northern Phuket recently and have come across three brand new villas, in far separate locations, completely abandoned with side doors broken open and content apparently being removed in stages; sinks, fixtures etc.

One of them had a vine snaking its way across the floor so the owner or developer or whatever obviously has not been there in a while.

What's the law on squatting ?

[happylarry]

this topic seems to come up every other day here and clearly people are too lazy to do a search before posting the same old questions.

searching the words 'usufruct' or 'land ownership' etc would yield a wealth of valuable information from previous posters so I think we need to be reminding people of this before typing the same old, same old over and over again.

Agreed. It is also scary how many foreigners I hear of that don't even start to investigate these issues until they are looking at property, or even negotiating on land.

The thaivisa search function takes a bit of practice but will yield valuable results. There are also search engines like yahoo, bing and google that will generate leads to sources like the web sites of Thai law firms or gov't depts - again plenty of useful info there to be had for free. Or if you want something interesting to read on the plane then try this book: www.silkwormbooks.com/catalog/info/investment-guide-thailand

Surely almost all topics have been covered at some time so if nobody repeated a topic then we would not have much to read would we.

Anyway I just wanted to point out that we can learn a wealth of information by reading posts like this, which is not relevant to us now and therefore we would not be doing a search for it, consequently we would never come across it.

Surely all topics have a title so if you have no interest in the said topic then dont click on it, simple aint it.

HL

[KunMatt]

I'm planning to build a house in the next couple of years. I will be getting married later this year so will be married at the time of land purchase.

Our plan is to buy the land wholly in my missus' name and then build the house in my name (by building new it allows us to separate the two things - I will own the building, but not the land it stands on, and her the land, but with a building on it not owned by her). I also plan to take out a 30 year lease on the land alongside a usufruct in case I should live longer than 30 years!

What do others think about this idea? What if we were to split? How will being married change things?

(and before the idiots start with comments about why build a house whilst worried about splits, etc. - we have been together a number of years and have a great relationship, but I am not an idiot so I want to consider the worse case scenarios)

Thanks folks

I am in the same situation as you except my gf already owns the land and we are literally now about to start preparing the land by building the perimeter wall, ploughing and adding more earth/leveling etc, pretty much just because I have a bit of time and money on my hands and thought it would be a good way to do something constructive with her Dad. I still no schedule for building the actual house yet but within a year would be good and we wouldn't be married by then either, but from what I've read an Usufruct definitely seems to be our best option, I think.

If there's a better way for my situation that anyone knows please tell me.

[stgrhe]

You should ensure the building permit is in your name, make sure the construction contract is signed by you and not the wife, and also make sure you pay for the construction from your account.

However, since you are married you and your wife will jointly own the house on her land because the house will be regarded as common property despite the above. If the building permit is in her name and she pays for the construction and sign the construction contract the wife will be the sole owner of the house.

The only way for a farang to fully own a house when married to a Thai is to build the house before the marriage is registered or by signing a pre-nuptial agreement at at the same time as the marriage is registered.

[cangetman]

frankylove, Best discuss with a lawyer as each persons particular personal situation will be different to another, also depends on what type of "property" you are interested in.

There are many ways to move forward and secure ownership of property without much risk, despite what some posters on here would have you believe.

Good luck.

listen frankylove dont buy or attempt to buy in thailand the place is so currupt its hard to put in to words, you will get screwed by the law by the police by the land office and anyone else connected to property, and by the lovely thai princess if you meet one , infact the only thing i can think of which compares to buying property in thailand is doing a bungee jump with out the bungee rope

i wish i was kidding but i am not the thais will generally try and bleed you dry

joking apart buy yourself a condo if anything thats the safest bet just make sure the person or company you buy off actually own the land or condo as thais again will screw you at the earliest opportunity

[johnnyk]

Sounds like someone got burned!

[cangetman]

Sounds like someone got burned!

your not kidding Jonny k 

[kikoman]

My understanding of property ownership, is limited to Condos 49% ownership and Incorporated Companies, which also carry many restriction per Thai law as, not being able to do any work on your own property that can be done by a Thai Citizen.

I do not under stand the paranoia about buying a house in Thailand, By Thai law which clearly States a farang cannot own property in Thailand. PERIOD !

I purchased land for my wife and on it we built a home, which we reside in, I did so with the understanding that this house and property are the sole ownership of my wife and daughters, I made one request that the house not be sold to anyone outside of my wife's immediate family. The house and property is now paid for three year after purchase, we have lived on the property 5 years now. If my wife and I ever separate, I will take my personal belonging and leave, the house I built and gave to my wife and family. I would not even take my 50% of community property.

I am hopeful that never happens! I pray to God that never happens, but if it dose it dose (mai pen rai)

I was married for 20 years in the states, when I was divorced, I lost the house. In a country where I can legally own property, But Divorce court Judges, have the final say on my home ownership rights. I did not cry, one must know the laws of the land before buying property.

What are you going to do with it after you die, You can't take it with you!

Cheers

[stgrhe]

I do not under stand the paranoia about buying a house in Thailand, By Thai law which clearly States a farang cannot own property in Thailand. PERIOD !

That is incorrect. It is fully legal for a foreigner to own a dwelling, i.e. property, on someone else's land here in Thailand. Secondly, there are also special and rare circumstances where a foreigner in fact may own land up to a size of one rai.

[kikoman]

Show me where it states that in Thai property law!

I have heard that song and dance before many times in the last 10 years, Yet, no one (No One) has been able to show me where it states that in Thai law.

When you purchase property do not purchase more than you are willing to lose. Thr property is her' and being married half of community property belongs to her!

Cheers

Edited June 2, 2010 by kikoman

[InterestedObserver]

Show me where it states that in Thai property law!

I have heard that song and dance before many times in the last 10 years, Yet, no one (No One) has been able to show me where it states that in Thai law.

When you purchase property do not purchase more than you are willing to lose. Thr property is her' and being married half of community property belongs to her!

Cheers

Superficies, Section 1410, of the Thailand Civil and Commercial Code and comments.

""The owner of a piece of land may create a right of superficies in favour of another person by giving him the right to own, upon or under the land, buildings, structures or plantations." So under Thai law, the owner of land can grant this right to a person called a superficiary (can be a foreigner), to own any construction or structures built on upon a land."

[kikoman]

Show me where it states that in Thai property law!

I have heard that song and dance before many times in the last 10 years, Yet, no one (No One) has been able to show me where it states that in Thai law.

When you purchase property do not purchase more than you are willing to lose. Thr property is her' and being married half of community property belongs to her!

Cheers

Superficies, Section 1410, of the Thailand Civil and Commercial Code and comments.

""The owner of a piece of land may create a right of superficies in favour of another person by giving him the right to own, upon or under the land, buildings, structures or plantations." So under Thai law, the owner of land can grant this right to a person called a superficiary (can be a foreigner), to own any construction or structures built on upon a land."

I did not see in the law you recited that any such person could be non-Thai !

I built a house and by law half of the house is mine as per Thai Community property law , as a result of being married to a Thai Citizen that was "OWNER" of the land. The land office had me sign a form that I had no claim to the land my wife was buying, which I gladly did.

Cheers:

[InterestedObserver]

1.You asked for somebody to cite the Thai law whereby a foreigner can build and own a house in Thailand, you got it. Superficies plus land lease registered on the land title deed (Chonate) maybe the best long term arrangement for a foreigner to own a house.

2. Foreigners cannot own land in Thailand; therefore, they always build a house on somebody else's land. Get real land rights and your name on the building permit or sales agreement, and you can own the house long term.

3. Marital law only complicates the legal arrangements; i.e., a 30 year lease for your wife's land should include a third party in the agreement.

4. Correct, you have no claim to the land your wife purchases, but land and house are two separate issues.

5. Wife's make lousy landlords, in divorce they can repudiate just about any agreement.

[Zstarx]

So mother in law owning land Falang owning house should present no problems for those of us who are married?

[InterestedObserver]

So mother in law owning land Falang owning house should present no problems for those of us who are married?

At a minimum you should get a 30 year lease registered on the land title (Chanote) your MIL holds. There is still the potential question of marital property, should you divorce.

[kikoman]

1.You asked for somebody to cite the Thai law whereby a foreigner can build and own a house in Thailand, you got it. Superficies plus land lease registered on the land title deed (Chonate) maybe the best long term arrangement for a foreigner to own a house.

2. Foreigners cannot own land in Thailand; therefore, they always build a house on somebody else's land. Get real land rights and your name on the building permit or sales agreement, and you can own the house long term.

3. Marital law only complicates the legal arrangements; i.e., a 30 year lease for your wife's land should include a third party in the agreement.

4. Correct, you have no claim to the land your wife purchases, but land and house are two separate issues.

5. Wife's make lousy landlords, in divorce they can repudiate just about any agreement.

My post was directed at the statement

"rare circumstances where a foreigner in fact may own land up to a size of one Rai"

Your respond did not address the information I requested.

Your post based on Right of superficies (section> 1410 to1416 (of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code) Please note the last sentence in that paragraph "Learn more> "Owning a building in Thailand separate from the land"

Buy, sale and transfer of a Thai house or Building {property Law}

Please note the entry (as foreigners can't own the Land)

In the process of looking up that information ,I came upon the following information, in the last paragraph of the above mentioned (Property Law).

"Rights to own a house or building upon another man's land relates directly to the rights to use or possess his land ,if you loose your rights to the land (right of superficies, lease rights, right of usufruct) you loose the rights to own the building upon that land"

The information you addressed did not provide the information ,I was seeking!

[InterestedObserver]

Ok then, here you go:

"The Thai government created 1 exception in the Land Code Amendment Act no.8 (1999) which allows foreigners under strict conditions and with approval of the Minister of Interior to acquire 1 rai of land for residential purposes. This requires among others an investment into specific Thai bonds and funds of 40 million Thai baht."

Regulation under the Land Code Amendment Act 1999 (source website of the Department of Lands): An alien (foreigner) bringing money not less than Baht forty million as specified in the Ministerial Regulation into the Kingdom for investment may apply for acquisition of land for residential purpose not more than one rai in area, provided also that permission must be obtained from the Minister. Under section 96 bis of the Land Code, the application for such acquisition of land shall be in accordance with rules, procedures and conditions prescribed in the Ministerial Regulation as follows:

Edited June 3, 2010 by InterestedObserver

[klikster]

"rare circumstances where a foreigner in fact may own land up to a size of one Rai"

The generally accepted definition of "owing real property" is often confused with the Thai concept of foreigners "acquiring land"... "under strict conditions .."?

That contradiction seems to spawn many arguments and disagreements here on TV.

Edited June 3, 2010 by klikster

[kikoman]

Ok then, here you go:

"The Thai government created 1 exception in the Land Code Amendment Act no.8 (1999) which allows foreigners under strict conditions and with approval of the Minister of Interior to acquire 1 rai of land for residential purposes. This requires among others an investment into specific Thai bonds and funds of 40 million Thai baht."

Regulation under the Land Code Amendment Act 1999 (source website of the Department of Lands): An alien (foreigner) bringing money not less than Baht forty million as specified in the Ministerial Regulation into the Kingdom for investment may apply for acquisition of land for residential purpose not more than one rai in area, provided also that permission must be obtained from the Minister. Under section 96 bis of the Land Code, the application for such acquisition of land shall be in accordance with rules, procedures and conditions prescribed in the Ministerial Regulation as follows:

Oh, how many of us expats fall into this special category with 40 million baht and under strict conditions and with the approval of the Minister can take advantage of acquiring one Rai of land.

I hear this argument from people having no where near enough money to exist on. Not Members of Thaksin's Millionaires Club.

If I had that type of money I sure would not use it to acquire one rai of land in Thailand under Special Conditions, I would use it to travel the world!

Cheers:

[InterestedObserver]

Again, you asked somebody to cite the Thai law pertaining to ownership of one rai of land by a foreigner for a house. You got it. The fact that you don't have the requisite 40 million baht is irrelevant to the answer.

Edited June 3, 2010 by InterestedObserver