Divorce In The Uk

[MrMooo]

I am currently going through the process of getting a divorce from my wife of 3 years (3 years tomorrow in fact). Everything broke down.

We have a son and im already starting proceedings to keep him here, he is British and she is in Thailand now doing her dirty job and it looks like I can get full custody of him. However I want the divorce sorted as well. My problem is I do not have an address for her and I know if I go out there there will be violence against me and I have to be here for my son.

Anyone had experience dealing with this problem of no address in a custody battle and divorce? I understand I have to serve her divorce papers but I dont want to have to go there.

I have already written to the border agency and detailed everything including some guys names in case she tries to get back over here with them. I did state to them and my ex that if she cleans up her act (HA) then I would sponsor her a visitor visa to see our child but I will not take him out there as I know what will happen. So she has no right to enter the country at the moment.

Edited April 10, 2010 by 7by7
Offensive and inflammatory remark about Thai women removed.

[473geo]

I see no reason for you to go out there - she can probably be located and served if you have a telephone number for instance or an approximate area, or even where she might be working, it may cost you a little, your divorce solicitor may be able to advise. Can you extract the address out of her by sending a small amount of money by moneygram and ask for her address?.......does she suspect? are you still in contact?

With an address your solicitor should be able to organise getting the papers served. If they are not signed and returned, then, after a period of 2 years, I think you can file anyway.......

Not 100% sure of the facts but I hope this gives you a little reassurance

[Chivas]

Were you married in Thailand or uk ??

I was always told marry in Thailand then you must divorce likewise in Thailand although other disagree and state that is incorrect.

No axe to grind whatever but if you did marry there, takes no more than 30 minutes at the Amphur to divorce ?

Keep your child in the uk whatever.

[MrMooo]

No response and its like 2 years...eek. My concern is how if in two years I get assets she could claim on these.

Either way my biggest concern is my son, she thinks I will send him to stay with her family. The family that will then extort every penny through emotional blackmail, I dont think so. Again problem with this looks like it could be the lack of address. I have spoken to her so do have mobile number and could pay someone to find out if I really need to I would prefer to go ahead as abandonment and get around it without having to even contact her as hearing new men everyday is rather distressing for me.

[473geo]

Chivas brings up a good point - I had assumed you were divorcing in the Uk and had married in the Uk - if that is not the case - and you married in Thailand nothing I told you applies!!!.....oops!!!!

[7by7]

From FAQs at Divorce Solicitors Online

Does it make any difference if we were married abroad?

No, but if the marriage certificate is in another language then you need to obtain a notarised translation.

Does it make any difference if either or both of us are foreign nationals?

No, provided either of you are habitually resident in England and Wales. There are complicated rules.....

Does it make any difference if either of us is resident abroad?

No, provided the other is habitually resident here.

This can be a complicated area and, if you have not already done so, you should speak to a solicitor about this as soon as possible. They will be best placed to help and advise you.

[MrMooo]

We was married in Thailand then it was recognised in the UK, well it must have for her to get a spouse visa. I have all copies of the marriage certificates and translated copies. It will cost no matter what in the region of £1500 for a divorce and well i gotta do some saving as I was left broke, however as I said the custody is the main thing and im getting legal aid for that. As she treatened to just take my son my solicitor is working on getting things moving quickly as his safety is under threat.

Looks like im going to have to pay an agency to locate her although I do have friends in the area too however due to the circumstances she might not be staying in her place most of the time. Ive been quoted £600 so far to obtain proof and other things like finding out her address but this is a mucking world where you can trust people.

I never do things the easy way!

Now getting over the mental pain of all this is another story, as it happened so fast ive had to seek counselling but thank god for the NHS!

and to add at this time I will not be filing for divorce in Thailand until I can get the UK side sorted. I have no reason to go to Thailand for some time and certainly right now I would not make it back alive! and I am serious about that.

Edited April 10, 2010 by MrMooo

[fredob43]

Why are you bothering anyway. You are in england or where ever. And she cant get a thing from you anyway. If you speak to the embassy. You will find out that they only take note of your Thai marrage. And no matter what, it dosen't hold much water in the UK. Wait a little time and she will be asking you for money for the devorce. dont pay as after a few year's you can get one easy. In Thailand she's made you loose face. Just get a lawyer (thai) and for a few baht he'll be able to get you one.

[7by7]

and to add at this time I will not be filing for divorce in Thailand until I can get the UK side sorted

I am not 100% sure, but I think if you legally divorce in the UK then that divorce is recognised in Thailand as well.

The Thai embassy may be able to advise on this:

Royal Thai Embassy,

Consular Section,

29-30 Queen’s Gate,

LONDON SW7 5JB.

Tel. 0207-5892944.

Please note that if you were to divorce her at the Thai embassy in London, whilst such a divorce would be legal and recognised in Thailand it would not be legal and recognised in the UK. Under UK law the only way a couple can divorce in the UK is via the courts. Any other form of divorce which took place in the UK would not be valid under UK law and UK law would still consider the couple married.

[7by7]

If you speak to the embassy. You will find out that they only take note of your Thai marrage. And no matter what, it dosen't hold much water in the UK.

Completely wrong!

Under the Foreign Marriages Act 1892, a marriage which is legal in the country where it took place is also legal in the UK.

If a couple are legally married in Thailand then they are also legally married in the UK.

[MrMooo]

The only way im going about this is in the UK. Its tougher, more expensive however its safer for me. Once I get the residence order for my son, he is safe then I can move onto the divorce. Thanks for that info if I can just take in confimration I got a divorce to the embassy that would be good.

[Chivas]

The only way im going about this is in the UK. Its tougher, more expensive however its safer for me. Once I get the residence order for my son, he is safe then I can move onto the divorce. Thanks for that info if I can just take in confimration I got a divorce to the embassy that would be good.

I for one as slightly confused.

If your son is with you and as you state she is in Thailand with no current access to the UK why are you worrying about a residence order ? Or is your son with her in Thailand ?

[MrMooo]

The border agency go off of the mindset that there is a chance she has been treated unfairly and if there is good reasons to grant her a different visa they will. So there is my son who she said that she will get no matter what she has to do. Its very complicated, nothing is straight forward and I do not deny that I am worrying too much but more than anything I am concern with my son. He will not be staying with her due to what she is into and her family asked me out right when am I giving him to them and how much will I send every month so he certainly isnt going there.

She has contacts in the UK and I have to make sure I dont find myself in a situation where my child is taken.

If I were to write the whole story It would be extremely long and I would break most of the forum rules doing so.

My ultimate concern was what sort of problems will I come into if I do not have an address for her. The answer seems to be simply, its complicated.

[7by7]

Obviously you want to sort out who has legal custody of your child; it is right and proper that you do so.

I'm no lawyer, but I think that unless you can show that she has in some way harmed him, or represents a danger to him, then getting custody without her having access rights is going to be difficult.

If she has legal access then she can get a visa to visit him in the UK, see VAT23 Parents with access rights to children in the UK . It is also possible that she would be able to obtain ILR in the UK based upon her access rights to the child, Immigration Rules Part 7, Paras 246 to 248.

I don't want to add to your worries, but do feel it's important that you are aware of this.

[MrMooo]

Obviously you want to sort out who has legal custody of your child; it is right and proper that you do so.

I'm no lawyer, but I think that unless you can show that she has in some way harmed him, or represents a danger to him, then getting custody without her having access rights is going to be difficult.

If she has legal access then she can get a visa to visit him in the UK, see VAT23 Parents with access rights to children in the UK . It is also possible that she would be able to obtain ILR in the UK based upon her access rights to the child, Immigration Rules Part 7, Paras 246 to 248.

I don't want to add to your worries, but do feel it's important that you are aware of this.

I have to say that was the most scary read of my life. However Thank you soo much for telling me this, i had NO idea but this makes sense because of what it said about notifying the border agency when you seperate. It said something like how they could be given permission to still come into the country, depending on situation.

This gives me more reason to pay for the private investigator to prove her use of drugs and the ilegal work she is currently undertaking.

The thing is, she would simply never find this out without advice and I do not think she is serious about her threats its her family.

[tripplejjj]

If she has legal access then she can get a visa to visit him in the UK, see VAT23 Parents with access rights to children in the UK . It is also possible that she would be able to obtain ILR in the UK based upon her access rights to the child, Immigration Rules Part 7, Paras 246 to 248.

@MrMooo,

This is what I would do if I was in your shoes.

1. DO NOT, in any way, prevent her from coming to the UK. You need to encourage her, via documented written communication and recorded verbal conversations, to return to the UK to work out the issues and be with her son. Ask her if she would come to the UK if you send her money (you need receipts) for a one way ticket to the UK. (This is assuming that she needs money.) You need her to say, in writing or verbally, that she will come to the UK and when if she has the money. During your communication with her, ask for her mailing address so you can send pictures of your son. Also ask her to send presents to her son from Thailand.

2. When you have exhausted #1 (sent her money twice but she kept the money and still did not return to the UK as agreed upon), initiate paperwork for a separation and then a divorce. (You need to go through the motion and wait as necessary. This is assuming that she doesn't want a divorce.)

3. While #2 is on going, initiate paperwork to get sole custody of your son for reason of child abandonment or something similar (assuming that she did not return to the UK). This is to show cause why you should get sole custody. When it comes to child custody, the courts decision are based on "what is best for a child."

4. As long as you have sole custody of your son and not getting marry again soon, then you just need to wait for the divorce to become final.

5. As far as making the divorce final in Thailand, you can go there to get it over with when you have the divorce paper from the UK or just don't get married again in Thailand. Your divorce paper in the UK will be your advocate when you get a divorce in Thailand. Remember, the divorce thing in Thailand is a Thailand thing and not a UK thing, for now.

[tripplejjj]

No response and its like 2 years...eek. My concern is how if in two years I get assets she could claim on these.

Either way my biggest concern is my son, she thinks I will send him to stay with her family. The family that will then extort every penny through emotional blackmail, I dont think so. Again problem with this looks like it could be the lack of address. I have spoken to her so do have mobile number and could pay someone to find out if I really need to I would prefer to go ahead as abandonment and get around it without having to even contact her as hearing new men everyday is rather distressing for me.

@MrMooo,

You need to stop playing the guessing games. You need to stop guessing what she is thinking. Ask her if she wants her son to come and stay with her in Thailand. Ask her how she would take care of her son. Ask her about the living arrangements. Ask her what school he will attend and what hospital to go for medical treatments. Ask her about her employment. Please make sure that you record these conversations. When the facts don't add up, then you have incriminating evidence against her.

It would be hard to send your son to live with her if you don't have an address.

FYI: From my experience, most lawyers are expert in laws. Unfortunately, they lack expertise in facts.

Edited April 10, 2010 by tripplejjj

[MrMooo]

Thanks for the post.

The problem I am having is she does want her son there but she is constantly changing from living with her to living with her aunt in southern Thailand while she works. I cannot have her looking after her son while she works in the position she is in and her Aunt according to my ex used to beat her as a child.

If I gave her that sort of money she would most likely come over and then cause maybe problems for me. So far she has refused to give me an address and also the child custody case is already under way. Also she has money to get here too so at the moment she is under the impression she has no way of coming here. I know feel like my letter written to the border agency was a mistake but what can I do now.

I am planning on recording some conversations with her over the phone and will see if her way of acting will help my case. Right now our conversations have been, allow me time to get over how she has treated me but her behaviour is so erratic because of the drug use.

[Chivas]

MrMooo

I'm no expert on divorce (although have twice been there) but you seem to be in an awful hurry for some reason ??

If in a moment of madness you send your son to Thailand (hows he going to get there alone if you wont go ?) then that will be the last time you see him for sure if as you say she is "bad" ?

You're safe in the UK-the boy is safe and unless you want to remarry in a hurry just let the solicitor do his/her job and stop worrying too much ??

Edited April 11, 2010 by Chivas

[7by7]

So far she has refused to give me an address

This is something on which your solicitor is best placed to advise you; but I'd have thought that if she refuses to give you an address then this can only help you win custody. How can the court decide you son would be better off with her if they don't know where or under what conditions he would be living?

If you can show that she is a drug addict then while this may not stop her from obtaining access to the boy, I'd think that it would stop her from getting custody and that any visits by her would have to be under supervision. Again, this is an area where your solicitor is best placed to advise.

I also think that you may be worrying too much about the effect of her being allowed back into the UK. From what you have said her family seem more of a problem than her; was she different when she was in the UK before and away from their influence?

You may be worried that if she has access to your son in the UK that she may abduct him and disappear back to Thailand. If you make sure that she does not have access to his passports (British and Thai) then this would be difficult for her to do, especially if her visits were supervised due to her addiction problems.

However, as said, your solicitor is the best person to discuss all this with.

[tripplejjj]

The problem I am having is she does want her son there but she is constantly changing from living with her to living with her aunt in southern Thailand while she works. I cannot have her looking after her son while she works in the position she is in and her Aunt according to my ex used to beat her as a child.

The issue is not you allowing your son to live with your wife or his aunt. What you want to document is your wife making a statement to the effect that she wants her son to live with someone else while she works. Her statement, by her own admission, would become evidence in court why she is unable to take care of your son and why you should get sole custody. And as far as sending pictures and money, this is so you can get her mailing address to serve her with a divorce paper.

If I gave her that sort of money she would most likely come over and then cause maybe problems for me. ....

Right now our conversations have been, allow me time to get over how she has treated me but her behaviour is so erratic because of the drug use.

Well, if she comes to the UK, then the divorce would be much easier. If you suspect her of using illegal drugs, then force her to get a drug test. If the drug test is positive, then the divorce and custody of your son would favor you considerably.

You have to build your case for a divorce and custody. If you go to court with just your statements, then you have about 50% chance of winning. What you want to do is increase the percentage in your favor. The only way to do this is by gathering evidences.

[MrMooo]

Thank you all for your replies I do appreciate then a great deal.

At this point its best I give a little more detail.

When she came to the UK the influence of her family was less but the pressure from them turned out to be a huge (I found this out a lot later on). She nearly had an affair 3 times around stressful times and when our son was born I had hoped she would calm down however this wasnt the case as she could not cope with him so what I am doing now is what I have always done, take care of him pretty much alone.

She left because I caught her out again and she left for Thailand even though I asked her not to go up until she went through security at the airport. Over there she seemed ok she was with someone I trusted however things got terrible and I went out there, only to find her working selling herself and she was a different person due to someone she had befriended ( I was a day late and I delayed going out there by a day, this plays on my mind), who I later found out was a known dealer. I tried to talk to her but it got no where so I left when she started to get violent (I dont need to be in a Thai prison).

At this point she had not asked how my son was once, however her family found out and this is where her attitute changed. She started demanding I bring him to her and she will give him to her Aunt to look after but I obviously wasnt for that so said no. At this point she made threats of taking him or getting someone she knows in the UK to take him.

My urgency is a mixture of two things, one I am scared somehow I might lose him as well because if he got over there for any reason I will never see him again, I will only get demands for money. And also I see no closure in this, I loved her and did everything I could to make her happy and she has turned into someone so vile.

The solicitor is already doing research and said without an address they may not even make a decision on custody apart from granting residency for me as she is not around but this could be changed later. To find out she can come to the UK and get residency because of this is my worst nightmare. I remember one massive argument we had she said to me, dont worry if I go missing I can work in London, men pay well there I heard. I can picture of the situation and the constant stress which would not help my child.

So the divorce can wait but I feel like the custody cant, hence why im looking into a private detective. I do have witnesses as well but my solicitor said they would not be required. I am all for paying her to come here even twice a year to come see him if she can clean up her act as every child needs a mum but I know it would never be that straight forward because she has completely lost herself in a world she does not need to be in. She left a great job which she was not qualified for and a son without any upset so I can only assume her motives right now are financial linking to her family.

I simply do not care about being married in Thailand but it is my only bargaining chip with her. I am still trying to get her address but I might need to use the private detective for that part as well.

And the only way I can get things in writing would be through facebook where she taunts me daily and the only people she adds are onces she 'meets'. I dont know if the court would take into account messages through that way.

EDIT: Just to add you guys have highlighted one of my personal weaknesses. Sometimes I try and get thinks sorted far too quickly and need to slow down and do it properly. At work I get stuff done quickly and its ok but as shown by some of my actions in my personal life I should slow it down. Once I speak to my solicitor Monday hopefully I will have a clearer picture of where I stand.

Edited April 11, 2010 by MrMooo

[sarahsbloke]

Let me see, worst case scenario

1) She applies for legal aid while in Thailand and will be given a VISA to come and appear in court.

2) She returns to the UK and claims she left because of fears of domestic violence from you.

3) She then applies for sole custody of the child saying you are some sort of pervert who may well harm the child.

4) She then applies for divorce and maintenance payments.

IMHO

There would be a very good chance of her winning each case.

(hopefully she doesn't know about her rights under UK law, or that she can get legal aid in the UK while living in Thailand)

If she has a facebook account, she will have an email address, a UK judge can give permission to serve papers via an email address.

You can do the divorce yourself for about 350UKP, goto the court offices and ask for a DIY divorce pack, claim unreasonable behaviour and apply for an instant divorce (reasons, meeting other men, deserting you and her son, mental cruelty, etc. ...... I think you need 3, no evidence is required by UK family court)

If you are unemployed or on low income, you can claim all the court fees back.

Edited April 11, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[MrMooo]

The scary thing is, knowing her will come out with such crazy things. Which is why I need a line drawn under this. I need to move on and my son doesnt need any of this.

[7by7]

With respect to my fellow posters, as far as the replies you have received here are concerned the most important thing you need to remember is that none of us is qualified in UK family law. (As far as I'm aware. My experience of other forums leads me to believe that anyone who was a lawyer would not comment anyway because it would go against their professional ethics as you have already instructed another solicitor.)

What we are offering is merely a layperson's opinion and you should check with your solicitor before taking any action based upon what you have read here.

Edited April 11, 2010 by 7by7

[Chivas]

The scary thing is, knowing her will come out with such crazy things. Which is why I need a line drawn under this. I need to move on and my son doesnt need any of this.

Seriously you need to calm down big time !

She's got no access to the UK at this time and she will not get a visa "with someone else" whilst she's still married to you.

You did exactly right by reporting the situation to the Border Agency.Your son wont be abducted by others (highly unlikely) in the UK and what would they do with him without passports ??

The threat of having him taken by others needs to placed on file at your local police station as a precaution.

Why are you letting her taunt you on facebook !! Why are you applying for a residence order ?? He is your son !!

I do have current personal experience in what you're facing as well so just take it easy ??

Edited April 11, 2010 by Chivas

[tripplejjj]

@MrMooo,

She started demanding I bring him to her and she will give him to her Aunt to look after but I obviously wasnt for that so said no. At this point she made threats of taking him or getting someone she knows in the UK to take him. ....

I remember one massive argument we had she said to me, dont worry if I go missing I can work in London, men pay well there I heard. I can picture of the situation and the constant stress which would not help my child.

Just get her to make those statements in writing so you can use it against her in court. What you said above tells me that she is unable to care for your son. In addition, she wants to commit a crime (kidnapping) and prostitution. I don't want to sound insensitive, but your son is to young to understand marital stress. Your son looks to you for comfort and love. You need to provide that for him. What he doesn't know at this age doesn't affect him.

I am still trying to get her address but I might need to use the private detective for that part as well.

It would be better to use a private detective to gather evidence against her by having photos and videos of her doing illegal things while in Thailand. For a private detective to get an address is about useless without her validating it. This is why you need to trick her into giving you her mailing address. Tell her that you would like to send pictures of your son to her. (It would suck if she told you to email the pictures. If that is the case, make the size of each picture extremely large so it will clog her email.) It doesn't matter, an email address is good to confirm her account. (This is why I would send things like money or picture frames because it can't be digitized. It would cost less then to hire a private detective. There are more ways to do this but too much to go into.)

And the only way I can get things in writing would be through facebook where she taunts me daily and the only people she adds are onces she 'meets'. I dont know if the court would take into account messages through that way.

The court would accept this only if you can link her to the account. To link her to the account, you need her to establish that the account holder is in fact your wife. This can be tricky.

Chivas also has several good points. Right now, your wife is in Thailand. So you do in fact have sole custody of your son. The only problem now is that you can't get married until your divorce is finalized. BTW, she has the same problem you do. How to trick the husband to bring the son to Thailand, get custody, divorce, and get all his asset.

Edited April 11, 2010 by tripplejjj

[MrMooo]

As I said in my edited post its clear im rushing into things, but its my head strong way, get things done, works in a job but not in personal life.

I think this is down to the fact that within 3 weeks I have found out so much information and now im grieving like someone has died. Before all the problems she was my friend and my wife and I loved her so most its just pure emotion. But it also opens this box, khowing how I wore blinkers for so long, I lost so many friends because if they said anything against her I reacted in a way letting them know I dont need them, so now im left on my own with my son facing this big world alone.

As much as I know you guys/girls are not solicitors the advice you have given me is valid in that its made it clear to me im rushing too fast and it will end up costing me if I dont slow down a do things properly. I am in the process of writing out a timeline and will document any contact I have with her from now on. I will record any telephone conversations and will look into the private detective to back up my claims (my saving grace is this month I get a bonus from work, pure luck it will give me the money to do it). The reality is that she is not fit to look after the child, I wish more than anything that she really loved him and we could be friends but I know so much about her that its hard to still be the only civil one. Whenever I speak to her via facebook or phone I always keep my cool and take the abuse I get but ultimately its breaking me down and thats why I wanted to get things sorted out as soon as I could. But I need to realise, courts, solicitors dont move fast so I need to slow down and build evidence and try and get over the loss ive had.

The residence order is a formality to protect me for the future. I know her enough to know she is looking for that next guy to take her away and pamper her and she loves English guys. She even said to me when I meet someone else and have our son I will make sure he calls him his dad, but I know this is trying to get a reaction from me, just see the other things I said she has said. But this is whats causes me so much distress, all the negative comments are wearing me down, while in the meantime I am bringing up a 11 month old boy who doesnt sit still for a moment. Oh and out of spite she even said he wasnt my son, the most cruel thing she could ever say, although later she retracted that. There is one fundamental feature about me that he has said really makes it undisputable lol.

I look forward to the day where a line is drawn under this and I can move on but you know what, its going to be a months and I can only see worse stuff happenning.

In regards to the divorce, i might add that I am not filing for this yet, it doesnt affect me, I am not with someone else so I can wait for this a bit later. I will only start these proceedings if I am forced to as I need to build up my financies again before I can go through that, however if my sons custody is taken care of, nothing about the divorce will stress me out, his wellbeing is all I care about.

[MrMooo]

Chivas also has several good points. Right now, your wife is in Thailand. So you do in fact have sole custody of your son. The only problem now is that you can't get married until your divorce is finalized. BTW, she has the same problem you do. How to trick the husband to bring the son to Thailand, get custody, divorce, and get all his asset.

tripplejjj this is it, her game at the moment is bring him here so at least my family can see him. Obviously I know her family and her mentality enough to know the result of that would not be pleasant so I am refusing. So one minute its bring him here to live but then she will also say the above. She wants him on home turf basically. The only positive thing the solicitor said was I will never be told I have to take my son there on holiday, they would not make me do that.

The thing is I dont have any assets and I remember her once saying to me, so as you dont have anything I at least want you to send me the computer monitor, half of everything right. Bizarre thing really but it gives an idea of her attitute.

Edited April 11, 2010 by MrMooo

[louialive]

Sounds like you are really going through it at the moment and as hard as it may be you need to try and keep yourself together for your sons sake. Remember he needs you more than ever now. Even though he is very young, a child will pick up on stress and other emotions. If you have family see if they can have him for a night so you can have a break etc.

Keep strong and good luck