Thai Election Commission Calls For Dissolution Of Democrat Party

[Splatter]

Might it be that Abhisit, with his Western education and all, truly believed he could bring a measure of common sense to the chaos of Thai politics, but has discovered that entrenched habits are too hard to shift for one man, no matter how brilliant he may be or believe himself to be?

Maybe.

Or maybe that his family pushed him into it, and he knew he wasn't ready / ciurcumstances weren't ideal.

But it isn't a perfect world. He had a choice to take the job, and he took it.

In some ways I feel for Abhisit.

Based on track records I very much doubt any other politician in the country could do a better job "keeping down the numbers killed" in Bangkok.

Abhisit's not got much of a team has he? The Foreign Minister mouthing off about why other governments aren't helping, for example.

It's easy to call for the removal a leader, but not so easy to recommend who to follow, and what they should do differently.

And what with Colonel Fufu barking at his heels, along with those holding the leash and filling the feeding bowl.

I'm sure that wasn't on the PPE degree syllabus at Oxford.

Sometimes the best of a bad bunch happens to be the best you've got.

And you have to work with that.

I have actually said in many posts that I quite like Abhisit - what I didn't like was his clinginess to the yellows and his lack of even-handedness - if he had really (really) come out as a middle-way guy on neither side then he could have been very good.

I can go along with that too.

The difficulty is that a leader that is too far out in front is no longer a leader.

They are isolated and on their own.

Similar principles apply when playing rugby.

Yup. Even handedness could have been adressed earlier.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Splatter

[ChiangMaiFun]

As for Abhsits smug defiance, even a pro-goverment newspaper, The Nation, referred to him in these terms.

Russell Hantz... now there's a smug man...

Resorting to personal attacks eh, rix? face it - you have painted yourself into a corner

Do you actually know who Russell Hantz is?

I do! I do! I do! he's... Russell Hantz?

[rixalex]

You certainly have a lot more faith in the Thai courts than most.

I respect their verdicts.

[Jingthing]

Reality check.

We (the public) do NOT know who the snipers were.

The poster who said that my statement nobody knows is correct; of course the snipers know and the people who ordered them know, at the very least.

But the public still doesn't know.

Another poster said perhaps the public will NEVER know.

Perhaps, but hopefully not.

The poster that stated that the snipers were military ordered by the PM with confidence has simply stated an OPINION based on pure speculation and bias.

It sounds to me that others do agree with me that the truth of who the snipers were and who ordered them DOES MATTER.

[rixalex]

Russell Hantz... now there's a smug man...

Resorting to personal attacks eh, rix? face it - you have painted yourself into a corner

Do you actually know who Russell Hantz is?

I do! I do! I do! he's... Russell Hantz?

I seriously doubt it - perhaps just an admirer. Clockworkorange seems to think he is the TV celebrity himself, gacing us with his presence.

[Tod Daniels]

I can only repeat, the EC is firm and fair.

Just an FYI about the Election Commission and a little about Abhisit's "claim to fame" in the current state of events;

Election Commission;

All Commissioners are recommended with the advice of the Senate of Thailand for a term of seven years. The current Commission was appointed on 20 September 2006 (immediately after the 2006 coup). Hmm, who exactly was in charge then? It wasn't Anupong was it? (That's like saying Fox News in the US is "fair and balanced".)

A little bit about the history with the Demz and Abhisit Vejjajiva and the current recommendation by the E/C

Abhisit has been the leader of the Democrat Party since February 2005. Abhisit successfully ran for MP in Bangkok under the Democrat Party following the 1991 NPKC military coup. Abhisit quickly rose through party ranks but failed in a bid to become party leader in 2001. He was accused of covering up illegal donations by failed petrochemical firm TPI Polene to the Party during the run-up to the 2005 elections.

Abhisit boycotted the subsequent 2006 elections. Abhisit voiced displeasure at the 2006 coup that overthrew Thaksin, but otherwise did not protest it or the military junta that ruled Thailand for over a year. An Attorney-General's Office fact-finding panel found that the Democrat Party bribed other parties to boycott the 2006 elections to force a constitutional crisis, and recommended dissolving the Democrats. The new Constitutional Court acquitted Abhisit and the Democrats of the vote bribery charges, while banning Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai party for the same charges. (Quite the double edged sword)

It is far from as cut and dried as one might think that an EC ruling recommending dissolution of a political party will actually result in that party's dissolution. Certainly it is not the 'slam dunk' win the Redz are playing it up to be. Ultimately it rests with the OAG to decide whether the evidence warrants forwarding the case to the Constitutional Court, and then again with that court to decide whether the evidence warrants dissolution.

It is a LONG drawn out fairly convoluted process and not something that's gonna happen tomorrow. Although with that being said, there have been times in the recent political past where the proverbial wheels of justice have turned quite a bit faster than normal, so who can really know.

I concur this was the E/C handing a 'hot-potato' off to the OAG, and now they hafta hand it off to the Constitutional Court. Shrewd move on the E/C.

(edited for sa-pelling, but still probably got some wordz worng <sic> )

Edited April 13, 2010 by Lite Beer

[FreedomDude]

You certainly have a lot more faith in the Thai courts than most.

I respect their verdicts.

Keep talking. You're doing great!

[OZEMADE]

Looks like the Prime Minister and his party will be charged for accepting an undeclared total of 287,000,000 Baht. I the PM is charged or his party is dissolved he will not be able to stand for 5 years.

[lannarebirth]

Ironically, the current government is doing exactly the same things the Thaksin government was accused of, namely, media suppression, murdering of civilians, and massive corruption. Absolute hypocrites.

I for one am glad to see the end of Abhisit and his smug defiance.

Clearly, you must not have lived in Thailand when Thaksin was PM or you'd never make such a statement.

[Jingthing]

Looks like the Prime Minister and his party will be charged for accepting an undeclared total of 287,000,000 Baht. I the PM is charged or his party is dissolved he will not be able to stand for 5 years.

The justice system is for everyone. The reds cheers. Yet they continue to take Thaksin's money and accept his political control. Isn't it time the reds look inside and realize Thaksin must ALSO face justice, and that if they cheer about justice against money corruption of the dems, it is time they stop taking money from a massively corrupt criminal fugitive, Thaksin? Of course, they won't, they are total hypocrites.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Jingthing

[RussellHantz]

Looks like the Prime Minister and his party will be charged for accepting an undeclared total of 287,000,000 Baht. I the PM is charged or his party is dissolved he will not be able to stand for 5 years.

The justice system is for everyone. The reds cheers. Yet they continue to take Thaksin's money and accept his political control. Isn't it time the reds look inside and realize Thaksin must ALSO face justice, and that if they cheer about justice against money corruption of the dems, it is time they stop taking money from a massively corrupt criminal fugitive, Thaksin? Of course, they won't, they are total hypocrites.

Speaking of hypocrites, have you dropped your support of the democrats yet ?

[Chunky1]

Have the Red Shirt Leaders made any statement re: dispersing/their current demands?

[Jingthing]

Looks like the Prime Minister and his party will be charged for accepting an undeclared total of 287,000,000 Baht. I the PM is charged or his party is dissolved he will not be able to stand for 5 years.

The justice system is for everyone. The reds cheers. Yet they continue to take Thaksin's money and accept his political control. Isn't it time the reds look inside and realize Thaksin must ALSO face justice, and that if they cheer about justice against money corruption of the dems, it is time they stop taking money from a massively corrupt criminal fugitive, Thaksin? Of course, they won't, they are total hypocrites.

Speaking of hypocrites, have you dropped your support of the democrats yet ?

Some points.

Many times I have said Abhisit is not perfect. My opinion isn't changed, still not perfect.

Relative to the red shirts/Thaksin of course I have supported Abhisit rather than them, and STILL do!

I have NEVER been a pro yellow shirter, to be clear.

The ruling against the democrats is still pending, subject to constitutional review.

Of course I would respect the final ruling of the constitutional review. I also respect the EC ruling, but it is not enforceable yet pending the review, under Thai law.

Reds trying to compare Abhisit's tangential relation to this money contribution charge verses the systemic corruption of Thaksin and the Thaksin puppet parties (running for many years now and continuing) are basically comparing a flea to an elephant. Of course illegal is illegal, and all should be subject to the law. The reds will NEVER say that (if the ruling is against them they stage a violent revolution, when it favors them they cheer)!

Human nature does include a lot of hypocrisy, we are all subjective and see things through our own filters. Realists understand this. However, there are matters of degree and the red shirt supporters in terms of degree of hypocrisy deserve the Nobel War Prize.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Jingthing

[RussellHantz]

Looks like the Prime Minister and his party will be charged for accepting an undeclared total of 287,000,000 Baht. I the PM is charged or his party is dissolved he will not be able to stand for 5 years.

The justice system is for everyone. The reds cheers. Yet they continue to take Thaksin's money and accept his political control. Isn't it time the reds look inside and realize Thaksin must ALSO face justice, and that if they cheer about justice against money corruption of the dems, it is time they stop taking money from a massively corrupt criminal fugitive, Thaksin? Of course, they won't, they are total hypocrites.

Speaking of hypocrites, have you dropped your support of the democrats yet ?

Some points.

Many times I have said Abhisit is not perfect. My opinion isn't changed, still not perfect.

Relative to the red shirts/Thaksin of course I have supported Abhisit rather than them, and STILL do!

I have NEVER been a pro yellow shirter, to be clear.

The ruling against the democrats is still pending, subject to constitutional review.

Of course I would respect the final ruling of the constitutional review. I also respect the EC ruling, but it is not enforceable yet pending the review, under Thai law.

Reds trying to compare Abhisit's tangential relation to this money contribution charge verses the systemic corruption of Thaksin and the Thaksin puppet parties (running for many years now and continuing) are basically comparing a flea to an elephant. Of course illegal is illegal, and all should be subject to the law. The reds will NEVER say that (if the ruling is against them they stage a violent revolution, when it favors them they cheer)!

Human nature does include a lot of hypocrisy, we are all subjective and see things through our own filters. Realists understand this. However, there are matters of degree and the red shirt supports in terms of degree of hypocrisy deserve the Nobel War Prize.

How many more millions of baht do the democrats need to be mixed up in before you drop your support of them ?

How much more media suppression needs to be done before you say enough is enough and drop your support of the democrats ?

How many more people need to die under Abhisits poor leadership and handling of the situation before you drop your support ?

The democrats are guilty of exactly the same things that Thaksin you accuse of, yet you still support him. AMAZING.

You sir, are a hypocrite.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Looks like the Prime Minister and his party will be charged for accepting an undeclared total of 287,000,000 Baht. I the PM is charged or his party is dissolved he will not be able to stand for 5 years.

The justice system is for everyone. The reds cheers. Yet they continue to take Thaksin's money and accept his political control. Isn't it time the reds look inside and realize Thaksin must ALSO face justice, and that if they cheer about justice against money corruption of the dems, it is time they stop taking money from a massively corrupt criminal fugitive, Thaksin? Of course, they won't, they are total hypocrites.

you were the one who went 'LOL' when I suggested it 'could' not be reds and we should wait - how you turn when it suits...

no comment on the EC findings then? this thread is not about the shootings? did you know that?

[xminator]

I will be as surprised if this is resolved in the minimum 3 months as I was when the EC actually ruled against the Democrats. It is afterall 5 years old material we're dealing with here, so maybe the constitution court will decide in 2015?

[ChiangMaiFun]

I have NEVER been a pro yellow shirter, to be clear.

haha I detect someone... somewhere... over the thread... is changing his colours... haha you don't think we are going to believe that do you after all your postings? slowly, slowly you are 'lessening' your views as you know the games almost up - your party has been caught out - your Foreign Minister is ranting - and you are turning from bright yellow to mid-yellow

[Jingthing]

haha I detect someone... somewhere... over the thread... is changing his colours... haha you don't think we are going to believe that do you after all your postings? slowly, slowly you are 'lessening' your views as you know the games almost up - your party has been caught out - your Foreign Minister is ranting - and you are turning from bright yellow to mid-yellow

Go back through my posting history. You will find statements from me saying I am not pro yellow perhaps over a 100 times, over a long time now. I have also stated clearly a similar amount of times that being anti-red does NOT mean you are pro yellow.

Aside from that, based on your tone you are personally HARASSING me. This is supposed to be about debating the ISSUES, not about your personal vendetta campaign against specific posters. You need to stop that and debate the issues like an adult, if you want to post.

[ChiangMaiFun]

haha I detect someone... somewhere... over the thread... is changing his colours... haha you don't think we are going to believe that do you after all your postings? slowly, slowly you are 'lessening' your views as you know the games almost up - your party has been caught out - your Foreign Minister is ranting - and you are turning from bright yellow to mid-yellow

Go back through my posting history. You will find statements from me saying I am not pro yellow perhaps over a 100 times, over a long time now. I have also stated clearly a similar amount of times that being anti-red does NOT mean you are pro yellow.

Aside from that, based on your tone you are personally HARASSING me. This is supposed to be about debating the ISSUES, not about your personal vendetta campaign against specific posters. You need to stop that and debate the issues like an adult, if you want to post.

Harrassing? how? I am commenting - how many times have you called me names in your posts? you seem very sensitive today - any reason? I have no personal vendetta at all - sounds like you are now trying to muzzle debate here because it is uncomfortable as the tide has turned.

[neverdie]

haha I detect someone... somewhere... over the thread... is changing his colours... haha you don't think we are going to believe that do you after all your postings? slowly, slowly you are 'lessening' your views as you know the games almost up - your party has been caught out - your Foreign Minister is ranting - and you are turning from bright yellow to mid-yellow

Go back through my posting history. You will find statements from me saying I am not pro yellow perhaps over a 100 times, over a long time now. I have also stated clearly a similar amount of times that being anti-red does NOT mean you are pro yellow.

Aside from that, based on your tone you are personally HARASSING me. This is supposed to be about debating the ISSUES, not about your personal vendetta campaign against specific posters. You need to stop that and debate the issues like an adult, if you want to post.

take it to PM ladies

[ChiangMaiFun]

haha I detect someone... somewhere... over the thread... is changing his colours... haha you don't think we are going to believe that do you after all your postings? slowly, slowly you are 'lessening' your views as you know the games almost up - your party has been caught out - your Foreign Minister is ranting - and you are turning from bright yellow to mid-yellow

Go back through my posting history. You will find statements from me saying I am not pro yellow perhaps over a 100 times, over a long time now. I have also stated clearly a similar amount of times that being anti-red does NOT mean you are pro yellow.

Aside from that, based on your tone you are personally HARASSING me. This is supposed to be about debating the ISSUES, not about your personal vendetta campaign against specific posters. You need to stop that and debate the issues like an adult, if you want to post.

take it to PM ladies

Agreed... it's ridiculous - let's stick to the topics

[Jingthing]

How many more millions of baht do the democrats need to be mixed up in before you drop your support of them ?

How much more media suppression needs to be done before you say enough is enough and drop your support of the democrats ?

How many more people need to die under Abhisits poor leadership and handling of the situation before you drop your support ?

The democrats are guilty of exactly the same things that Thaksin you accuse of, yet you still support him. AMAZING.

You sir, are a hypocrite.

Do you have reading comprehension issues? Please don't ask me to say the same thing too many more times, OK.

-- No, the corruption of the democratic party is CLEARLY not at the same level or the same charges as against Thaksin.

-- Media suppression? You are talking about the decision during the time when the reds declared war against the government. That was clearly an emergency measure. Of course, in general, I am against media suppression by any side. You do understand Thaksin was an aggressive media suppresor during his regime (during times of peace). . Are you OK with Thaksin's media suppression, or is it, as I suspect, everything the reds/Thaksin does if perfectly fine.

-- My position remains. ALL of the blood is on Thaksin's/reds hands. They insisted on continuing their disruptive/illegal revolution attempt on the streets of Bangkok, even against many warnings and orders to desist. I would respect them if they practiced non-violent civil disobedience. They should have sat down and waited to be arrested peacefully. Instead they used all kinds of lethal weapons, spears, clubs, grenades, guns with live bullets, and Molotov cocktails. Calling factions of them terrorists at this point is very accurate.

Back to the crux of this topic. If you support the dems and Abhisit should be held responsible under the court rulings of Thailand (as I do) you should ALSO support that Thaksin and the running from the law red shirt leaders be subject to the laws of Thailand. The reds now cheer their "victory" over Abhisit, but you want to hear real silence, where is their voice to demand Thaksin face justice or their own accused leaders face the law?

Edited April 13, 2010 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Agreed... it's ridiculous - let's stick to the topics

Agreed. Let's stick to topics.

[RussellHantz]

How many more millions of baht do the democrats need to be mixed up in before you drop your support of them ?

How much more media suppression needs to be done before you say enough is enough and drop your support of the democrats ?

How many more people need to die under Abhisits poor leadership and handling of the situation before you drop your support ?

The democrats are guilty of exactly the same things that Thaksin you accuse of, yet you still support him. AMAZING.

You sir, are a hypocrite.

Do you have reading comprehension issues? Please don't ask me to say the same thing too many more times, OK.

-- No, the corruption of the democratic party is CLEARLY not at the same level or the same charges as against Thaksin.

-- Media suppression? You are talking about the decision during the time when the reds declared war against the government. That was clearly an emergency measure. Of course, in general, I am against media suppression by any side. You do understand Thaksin was an aggressive media suppresor during his regime (during times of peace). . Are you OK with Thaksin's media suppression, or is it, as I suspect, everything the reds/Thaksin does if perfectly fine.

-- My position remains. ALL of the blood is on Thaksin's/reds hands. They insisted on continuing their disruptive/illegal revolution attempt on the streets of Bangkok, even against many warnings and orders to desist. I would respect them if they practiced non-violent civil disobedience. They should have sat down and waited to be arrested peacefully. Instead they used all kinds of lethal weapons, spears, clubs, grenades, guns with live bullets, and Molotov cocktails. Calling factions of them terrorists at this point is very accurate.

Back to the crux of this topic. If you support the dems and Abhisit should be held responsible under the court rulings of Thailand (as I do) you should ALSO support that Thaksin and the running from the law red shirt leaders be subject to the laws of Thailand. The reds now cheer their "victory" over Abhisit, but you want to hear real silence, where is their voice to demand Thaksin face justice or their own accused leaders face the law?

What I have difficult comprehending is how much in denial you are.

[Jingthing]

What I have difficult comprehending is how much in denial you are.

Again, sir, argue the content of the topic, rather than resort to your cheap personal sniping. If you can't, go on and keep sniping, but don't expect me to waste any time replying to you.

[Ricardo]

If the charges are true, then Abhisit benefited from the illegal acts and as such he has to resign.

Where or where have all the hypocrites gone? it wasn't too long ago that the anti red shirt groups were insisting that the various PMs on the opposing side hd to go for far worse crimes, like Samak's cooking show (fiend that he was - cooking on national TV, the horror).

How will TV's bully brigade spin tis to excuse the Dems and of course find a way to blame it on Thaksin. The Dems played hardball and got the hit right back at the pitcher's nuts. This is going to be painful to watch.

Pity you have to call other posters "hypocrites" or a "bully brigade", gk, we're all just foreigner-observers here, and I personally try to have more respect for others, even if I might think they sometimes take a wrong position on life here.

If the Democratic Party is dissolved, as a result of this, then it surely goes to prove that 'double-standards' are not being applied, and that (as I hope & believe) the E.C. are still trying to steadily clean-up elections here, a necessary step along a slow road to democracy.

I myself certainly would not excuse the Dems, if found guilty & dissolved, although it would be a pity to lose Abhisit or Korn for 5 years, as I think Thailand needs politicians of their experience & integrity, just compare them to the feudal-dinosaurs who previously ran things, and who are still way-too-involved, but perhaps all this pre-dates him ?

Possibly this may lead to an election, perhaps Abhisit may form a new-democrats party & hold his coalition together, or perhaps the PTP might be able to form a new governing-coalition ? In which latter case, will the UDD still be on-the-streets, demanding an immediate election, I somehow doubt it.

[xminator]

The 5 years spent getting to this point is proof enough of double standards.

[Jerrytheyoung]

No it will not take five years before a Decision.

All parties involved should understand the priorities:

1 LEVEL 1: Stability of the Institutions, which supposes a minimum of social divisions, Harmony and Peace.

2 LEVEL 2: Economical development for improving the wealth of Thai People. However it is a second degree priority.

It is clear that Abhisit and the Elite have given too much importance to the Level 2 Priorities, this putting at risk the Level 1 Priorities.

It is an Emergency situation for the Higher level to safeguard the Institutions. Abhiisit Policies have not been sufficient and implemented enough faster for defusing the social crisis. The decision to shut down the Red Shirt TV is a provocation which has fuelled the conflict to such a point that it may degenerate in an adventure very risky for the institutions.

If the thesis that Army has utilised snipers Saturday is confirmed, the situation has jumped one more step toward the Institutional adventure.

TODAY, Time is TO DEFUSE the situation and bring back PEACE and HARMONY to Thai citizens.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[Jingthing]

The 5 years spent getting to this point is proof enough of double standards.

I suggest you greatly EXPAND on your thoughts about that.

[RussellHantz]

-- No, the corruption of the democratic party is CLEARLY not at the same level or the same charges as against Thaksin.

Yet apparently a level of corruption involving Bt258 million is acceptable for you. Strange for someone campaigning so hard on anti-corruption.

So what level of corruption would become unacceptable and cause you to drop your support ? Bt500 Million ? Bt1 Billion ? Bt100 Billion ?