Bangkok: Eleven Died From Gunshot Wounds

[kuffki]

^well I think the big give away would be the huge vid camera the journalist maybe lugging around.

The Reuters Reporter was targeted or he just caught indiscriminate firing (wrong place\wrong time) and was unlucky.

Exactly, but who knew he was a foreigner or not? this is where it all gets screwed. I also think it was accidental bullet

[whiterussian]

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/id...lBrandChannel=0

ANALYSIS - Thai military rifts spilling dangerously into open

Army and government sources said the red shirts received arms and support on Saturday from a rogue military faction that includes retired officers and is allied with twice-elected and now fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, a divisive figure removed in a 2006 coup after graft allegations.

The worsening split, government sources say, is transforming life at a military base where Abhisit and other senior cabinet officials now regularly meet, and sometimes sleep. Officials say their plans are being leaked from the base, the 11th Infantry Battalion of the Royal Guard.

"We don't know who to trust," said a senior government official. "We sit for lunch in the same cafeteria. Yet with us are people on the side of Thaksin," said the official, who declined to be identified so he could speak candidly.

Edited April 13, 2010 by whiterussian

[TheOldWolf]

If you have a murder case one of the first things you start to do is look for who has a motiv to kill. In most cases thats a good way to start. (havfe I read tom many criminal books?)

Good point.

Well the initial report said "foreigner shot in the chest, for telling soldier to f..k You"

in then was clarified that it was Japanese reporter.

1.How and Who knows what was actually said to the soldier?

2.I really find it hard to see Japanese using this kind of language

3. Unless you speak with the guy, how would anyone know he was in fact Japanese and not Thai, not being racist here, but it was night and person is Asian, really no way of knowing Thai or Japanese.

It then later was clarified that Japanese reporter was shot from the back, indicating someone from the red shirts or an army sniper or the rogue group.

Who has the motiv from what we have seen or heard? Army?-for what?. Government? again why? Red shirts?-no reason, does not achieve anything.

Rogue group to keep the conflict and point fingers-most likely, but again this is just a speculation.

If you change the word red shirts to read leaders? I think it is very different thing? I could only see the red leaders that need bodys.

[kuffki]

If you have a murder case one of the first things you start to do is look for who has a motiv to kill. In most cases thats a good way to start. (havfe I read tom many criminal books?)

Good point.

Well the initial report said "foreigner shot in the chest, for telling soldier to f..k You"

in then was clarified that it was Japanese reporter.

1.How and Who knows what was actually said to the soldier?

2.I really find it hard to see Japanese using this kind of language

3. Unless you speak with the guy, how would anyone know he was in fact Japanese and not Thai, not being racist here, but it was night and person is Asian, really no way of knowing Thai or Japanese.

It then later was clarified that Japanese reporter was shot from the back, indicating someone from the red shirts or an army sniper or the rogue group.

Who has the motiv from what we have seen or heard? Army?-for what?. Government? again why? Red shirts?-no reason, does not achieve anything.

Rogue group to keep the conflict and point fingers-most likely, but again this is just a speculation.

If you change the word red shirts to read leaders? I think it is very different thing? I could only see the red leaders that need bodys.

read leaders??? sorry i do not follow you

[way2muchcoffee]

If you have a murder case one of the first things you start to do is look for who has a motiv to kill. In most cases thats a good way to start. (havfe I read tom many criminal books?)

Good point.

Well the initial report said "foreigner shot in the chest, for telling soldier to f..k You"

in then was clarified that it was Japanese reporter.

1.How and Who knows what was actually said to the soldier?

2.I really find it hard to see Japanese using this kind of language

3. Unless you speak with the guy, how would anyone know he was in fact Japanese and not Thai, not being racist here, but it was night and person is Asian, really no way of knowing Thai or Japanese.

It then later was clarified that Japanese reporter was shot from the back, indicating someone from the red shirts or an army sniper or the rogue group.

Who has the motiv from what we have seen or heard? Army?-for what?. Government? again why? Red shirts?-no reason, does not achieve anything.

Rogue group to keep the conflict and point fingers-most likely, but again this is just a speculation.

Agree about the Army and Government. If they are seen to kill a foreign reporter they face a huge credibility loss.

The redshirt movement gains considerably from a dead reporter, but only if it can be blamed on the government or military somehow. I don't mean to say your typical redshirt supporter or demonstrator would kill a reporter, far from it. That would be a job for the militant wing of the organization or perhaps some 'unknown force' sympathetic to the redshirt goals of removing the current government.

[britmaveric]

^red leaders did not need bodies they were already successful prior to the KSR massacre with making the govt look feeble with putting Red TV back on the air. They were well on their way to more peaceful protests.

Edited April 13, 2010 by britmaveric

[krakatoa]

So, one body still has a bullet inside but they haven't identified the origins of the bullet? Why? What gauge is it? Where was it made? Who was it supplied to, and when? All this info is readily available from the bullet and is a start to the forensic analysis of this death. Why the prevarication?

Because the folk supposedly carrying out the investigation don't want the truth to come out.

The official report on the TG crash 10 plus years ago (with more than 100 killed) hasn't been released yet.

Smell the flowers

And when the smell turns to the smell of shyt ask yourself why the most qualified and most honest and respected forensic scientist in Thailand "Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan" seems to have been left out in the cold.

It's a no brainer. The truth will never be told (even if it's known) do you really think that the figure of 21 dead from last Saturday is a honest and accurate figure "I doubt it" it's probably twice that number

Not good for tourism is it

[TheOldWolf]

I think you shall write a line between the common red shirt that is dancing, singing in the street, following the crowd where ever it is tol d to go, and the screaming red shirt leaders. they have screaming for violance since they came to BKK. Last Songkran they cried for bodys. Now they got them: For me they have the motiv.

[Insight]

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/id...lBrandChannel=0

ANALYSIS - Thai military rifts spilling dangerously into open

Army and government sources said the red shirts received arms and support on Saturday from a rogue military faction that includes retired officers and is allied with twice-elected and now fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, a divisive figure removed in a 2006 coup after graft allegations.

The worsening split, government sources say, is transforming life at a military base where Abhisit and other senior cabinet officials now regularly meet, and sometimes sleep. Officials say their plans are being leaked from the base, the 11th Infantry Battalion of the Royal Guard.

"We don't know who to trust," said a senior government official. "We sit for lunch in the same cafeteria. Yet with us are people on the side of Thaksin," said the official, who declined to be identified so he could speak candidly.

I would imagine there are methods to identify the source(s) of such leaks. I would hazard a dangerous guess as this method perhaps explaining the radio silence today...?

Or maybe everybody is having a much deserved Songkran breather.

/edit - (given my clearly limited knowledge of military tactics comparing to other members) what's to say there's actually a leak? Battles were going on all day on Saturday. IFIAR the military movements started at Phan Fa bridge at 12pm, dispersing the protesters who reconvened around Khao Sarn and Kok whatsit intersection. The militants had all day to observe the actions of the army, but waited until nightfall before they made their moves which ignited the ensuing chaos.

Perhaps they knew the army wasn't fully armed, but again they had all day to establish this.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Insight

[way2muchcoffee]

^red leaders did not need bodies they were already successful prior to the KSR massacre with making the govt look feeble with putting Red TV back on the air. They were well on their way to more peaceful protests.

No. They were well on the way to continue holding Bangkok hostage in order to remove the current government.

[britmaveric]

^red leaders did not need bodies they were already successful prior to the KSR massacre with making the govt look feeble with putting Red TV back on the air. They were well on their way to more peaceful protests.

No. They were well on the way to continue holding Bangkok hostage in order to remove the current government.

No worse than what the yellows did I might add - what was it 6+ months, then culminated in the airport seiges?

[way2muchcoffee]

^red leaders did not need bodies they were already successful prior to the KSR massacre with making the govt look feeble with putting Red TV back on the air. They were well on their way to more peaceful protests.

No. They were well on the way to continue holding Bangkok hostage in order to remove the current government.

No worse than what the yellows did I might add - what was it 6+ months, then culminated in the airport seiges?

We are talking about what the redshirts did a few days age and are doing right now. 21 people died and there were nearly 900 injuries, perhaps more that are unaccounted for. The redshirts security wing wore black shirts and sometimes red. They carried assault weapons and fired on soldiers. There is also the military wing that is probably not a part of the regular redshirt demonstrators but is aligned with the redshirt movement. They wore ninja outfits and often camouflage, some with red armbands. They are the ones who launched grenades, assassinated a military commander and probably several others. They are also behind the random bombings throughout the city and were a part of last year's Sonkran riots. Allegedly.

Here's a Reuters article to fill you in. And Nation article and a Thanong weblog. There's also an article in the BP that I won't link to. Also there are Kasit's comments. It's not too hard to put the pieces together. This is a major power struggle that could teeter over into civil war if all players are not careful. At least that's what's being reported both here and in the foreign media.

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/id...lBrandChannel=0

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong/2010/04/13/entry-1

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...m-30127095.html

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Ministe...ll-t355955.html

Edited April 13, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[britmaveric]

Other reports in Western media say that they witnessed further video footage that showed both sides firing assault rifles with lethal intent.

Sean Boonpracong, a spokesman for the red shirts told Montlake that his organization has no links with rogue elements.

“Most of the reds are fighting with their bare hands or rocks or water bottles. If this was a third hand we’d like to know who it was. It definitely wasn’t us,” he said.

Doubts have surfaced regarding the loyalty of elements within the military to the government and accusations have been made that “watermelons”—because they are green on the outside but red on the inside—have supplied information to the anti-government leadership.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/33260/

Nothing more needs to be said......

Edited April 13, 2010 by britmaveric

[way2muchcoffee]

Other reports in Western media say that they witnessed further video footage that showed both sides firing assault rifles with lethal intent.

Sean Boonpracong, a spokesman for the red shirts told Montlake that his organization has no links with rogue elements.

“Most of the reds are fighting with their bare hands or rocks or water bottles. If this was a third hand we’d like to know who it was. It definitely wasn’t us,” he said.

Doubts have surfaced regarding the loyalty of elements within the military to the government and accusations have been made that “watermelons”—because they are green on the outside but red on the inside—have supplied information to the anti-government leadership.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/33260/

Nothing more needs to be said......

Sure it does. If there are elements in the military who are not loyal to the current government then who are they loyal to? Obviously they are loyal to the people behind the redshirt movement.

[britmaveric]

^maybe, but this very well could be military infighting which reared its ugly head. (deliberate fratricide)

[SpoliaOpima]

Abhisit needs to apologise to the Thai people, and to the families of the deceased for his handling of the situation which led to the casualties.

He needs to make some attempt at least to wash those blood stained hands of his.

Abhisit didn't start the protest, nor did his side fire the first shots. Thaksin and his devil's minions are the ones who should apologise to the Thai people. But they never will. They have lied and made excuses continually. How many times did Thaksin say he would retire from politics? How many times did the Reds say 'This will be the final day of protest, then we will go home?" Abhisit is a man of honour, hasn't lied once yet. Perhaps the only apology he owes is that he didn't act sooner to pre-empt the violent Reds, who have now resorted to kidnapping.

[way2muchcoffee]

^maybe, but this very well could be military infighting which reared its ugly head. (deliberate fratricide)

The military doesn't control the government. There are too many things the government must do that the military doesn't want to be involved in. Generals tend not to make the best Prime Ministers. The government certainly doesn't control the military. But for any government to function in Thailand it needs to be in bed with the military, or at least the faction who controls the military at that time. There is a significant faction in the military who are Thaksin supporters. Given that the 'unknown party' is military these Thaksin supporters are the most likely suspects. There are other possibilities though.

Edited April 13, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[hanuman1]

^maybe, but this very well could be military infighting which reared its ugly head. (deliberate fratricide)

The military doesn't control the government. There are too many things the government must do that the military doesn't want to be involved in. Generals tend not to make the best Prime Ministers. The government certainly doesn't control the military. But for any government to function in Thailand it needs to be in bed with the military, or at least the faction who controls the military at that time.

The military did exactly what it wanted to do (nothing) when the yellows took over the airport. Now they felt the need to make at least a bit of an effort with the current government to show the real powers that be where they stood, but I get the feeling it was half-hearted from Anupong's point of view in the first place, and now he's clearly said he wants out of further skirmishes. Anupong knows his days are numbered and just wants ot make sure he's not remembered like Suchinda, whether it gets him fired or not. He's out in 6 months anyway.

[hawthorne]

When will the Red shirt followers ever stop taking other lives? Those murders. Criminals. Terrorists.

Nothing but the lowest life form on earth.

Red Leaders should all be thrown in jail.

[britmaveric]

When will the Red shirt followers ever stop taking other lives? Those murders. Criminals. Terrorists.

Nothing but the lowest life form on earth.

Red Leaders should all be thrown in jail.

Once they lock up Abhisit and his cohorts for the KSR massacare.

[hanuman1]

When will the Red shirt followers ever stop taking other lives? Those murders. Criminals. Terrorists.

Nothing but the lowest life form on earth.

Red Leaders should all be thrown in jail.

I never thought of it like that before - when are those crayzee red shirt b$£stards gonna stop killing 15 of their own and 5 of the 'enemy'.

You could have saved 5 minutes of your own life by not posting that drivel.

Edited April 13, 2010 by hanuman1

[way2muchcoffee]

When will the Red shirt followers ever stop taking other lives? Those murders. Criminals. Terrorists.

Nothing but the lowest life form on earth.

Red Leaders should all be thrown in jail.

Once they lock up Abhisit and his cohorts for the KSR massacare.

That won't happen.

[bkkbrad]

they sure did!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcwxd7_redbkk_news

surely they could tell if it was a sniper from the trajectory of the in/exit wounds on the bodies

You can see that the flag bearer was shot from behind as he fell forward after being hit...I didn't see any soldiers around him...he was also shot at fairly close range as the sound and the impact were almost instantanious...Two tours of SVN, Malaya etc....I know what a shot man looks like

"Agents provocare" from the "not green" side for sure, cowardly, degenerates...

Which video were you watching? He fell backwards.

Also, there were far too many shots heard to be able to suggest which of the sounds related to the shot that hit him.

Have another look and comment again.

Had another look...he was facing the building and the shot came from his right, he then folded to his left, his back is to the camera so he couldn't have been shot from the front as we would have seen the shooter?

Looks like that to me too. It cannot be denied that some in the red shirt faction were carrying weapons, so to blame the army or police would be premature.

Who ever shot him it is a terrible waste of a life.

[mrparanoid]

The redshirts security wing wore black shirts and sometimes red. They carried assault weapons and fired on soldiers. There is also the military wing that is probably not a part of the regular redshirt demonstrators but is aligned with the redshirt movement. They wore ninja outfits and often camouflage, some with red armbands.

Ninja outfits? 555 I do believe it's called uniforms.

By the way.. The ทหารพราน is part of the Royal Thai Army..

Edited April 13, 2010 by mrparanoid

[tgw]

Those uniforms aren't Royal Thai Army uniforms, they are uniforms of a para-military unit, the Taharn Prahan.

Sae Daeng has used them in the past.

see: http://www.search.com/reference/Thahan_Phran

The Thahan Prahan have had a troubled history, with units often accused of atrocities, abuse of authority, and involvement in the drug trade. It has also been reported that these units included a large majority of local thugs who often made use of their status to continue to commit crimes against their fellow citizens.

makes you wonder...

[tgw]

And have a look at this:

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/fo...659&page=28

the beginning is simply baffling:

Ai Maew givign a green light for AI Phanlop and Ai Seh Daeng to apply guerilla warfare as a part of Attrition Warfare against those in his enemy list.

The conflict of AI Phanlop vs. AI Too is just a red herring to draw public attention away from the guerilla warfare Ai Maew goign to use due to the fact that AI Phanlop and Ai Seh Daeng have critical ability which Ai Too and his men cannot do.

This is a case of CRMA vs. CRMA UDD men is going to borrow CRMA men of Ai Phanlop and AI Seh Daeng to fight against Big Pok & Big Pom alogn with Khun Mark ... since they have confidence that they have PT as Party for the mass, The Alliance from UDD men and the Army from Ai Phanlop => completign the principal of Peopl Warfare of Chairman Mao.

Ai Too and PT men got a durty to get 1 Million UDD men from those unemployed alogn with the disgrunted peasants who suffered from drought. Furthermore, they are also pick up thsoe Taharn Phran in Black who have suffered from neglect to commit guerilla warfare. Those Men in black will be the one who steal the weapons from Army men to prevent the encirclement by Army.

Furthermore, Ai Too will tell UDD men to KILL Anyone who are on theri way ... and they are gogin to assasinate Khun Mark alogn with the cabinate withotu fearing the treason charges alogn with the first decree of Felony ...

This would leave Khun Mark no choice by to apply Emergency Decree before aI Phanlop and Ai Seh Daeng using those men in black to commit urban warfare in the same way of "Search & Destroy" during Vetnam War.

Furthermore, AI Maew is goign to ask Hun Sen to Launch hte Invasion of Thailand as the way to draw the Army out to the Border instead of concentratign the power in BKK and vincinity.

and that was posted in february!

Edited April 13, 2010 by tgw

[tgw]

and it seems Sae Daeng's official post in the Royal Thai Army is "Aerobics Teacher":

Khattiya made news on October 18, 2008, by announcing "he would mobilise government supporters against any military attempt to seize political power." Khattiya "said members of the pro-government Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship (DAAD) would use petrol bombs against tanks and military vehicles taking part in a coup attempt. [3]

Khattiya was reassigned as an aerobics teacher [4] by Gen. Anupong Paochinda, Thai Army commander. Khattiya responded by saying, "The army chief wants me to be a presenter leading aerobics dancers. I have prepared one dance. It's called the 'throwing-a-hand-grenade' dance."

On 14 January 2010, Army Commander Anupong Poachinda ordered a suspension of Khattiya Sawasdipol after an inquiry committee found that Khattiya has expressly paid loyalty to the National United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship, a political pressure group supporting Thaksin Shinawatra, breaching official disciplines.[5] The following day, Anupong's office in the Royal Thai Army Headquarters was bombed by rockets launched by M79, left the office demolished but no person injured.[6]

[Sisaketmike]

Didn't someone say that they were only shooting rubber bullets?!?

Did all these people comitted suicide? How can the govt keep telling lies...

There’re so many rumors about the whole demonstration, deaths and how people died, that the truth becomes invisible. Foreigners shouldn’t come to conclusions in a forum where also Thai citizen are reading the topics. We shouldn’t point our fingers on reds or yellows, it isn’t our country.

[OccamsRazor]

Once they lock up Abhisit and his cohorts for the KSR massacare.

[SpoliaOpima]

When will the Red shirt followers ever stop taking other lives? Those murders. Criminals. Terrorists.

Nothing but the lowest life form on earth.

Red Leaders should all be thrown in jail.

Once they lock up Abhisit and his cohorts for the KSR massacare.

The imaginary massacre, you mean.