Red Shirts Put Lives On Hold To Camp Out In Bangkok

[valerian]

Funny... can't see anything about this on the mict.go.th website. Are there any other sources apart from prachathai?

It's just yet another made up page to add to the confusion

It is just the daily MICT business, to close illegal websites or block the access to them of they are hosted outside Thailand. Actually not Big News and nothing new at all.

Really? Or is it UDD-style free speech ("free spit" transliterated to thai) and democracy?

Edited April 14, 2010 by valerian

[BigBikeBKK]

One thing is clear: The rotten establishment must and will go.

Only to be replaced by a more rotten establishment. Yep, that's progress Thai-style...

[BigBikeBKK]

Wanna know what's sickening? Those who continue to blindly support a Prime Minister with blood on his hands. << That's sickening.

You're talking about the convicted criminal former PM in Dubai right? How many did he kill in the deep south and in his war on drugs? How many more will he kill if he returns to the Land of Smiles with scores to settle? Scary thought...

[sbk]

Insulting posts have been deleted. Drop the flaming. Just as a note. Suspensions will be handed out to those who can't mind their manners and keep it civil. cheers

[BigBikeBKK]

Most countries do not have over 20 coups do they?

Here is some stuff you could read from a very conservative WSJ in the States today.

"The true reason for the die-hards' fear is the depth and intensity of support for the red movement revealed over the past month. The size and stamina of the protest belied predictions. A wide spectrum of people joined the demonstrations, not just the rural poor. Many Bangkokians took part, to the surprise of those who saw this contest as village against city.

Moreover, the evident intensity of the protesters' commitment exploded any illusion that this was merely a paid mob. The organization was tight. Until last Saturday, the protest had a festival feel and was spectacularly nonviolent. Clearly this is a mass movement expressing a deeply felt demand for change. The government and military now face the prospect that any attempted coup or renewed violent oppression could trigger a far larger show of popular support for the protests.

Most worrying for the government and army has been the effect on monks and rank-and-file security personnel. Many monks joined the protests. Police stood aside. Late last week, more and more soldiers were showing signs of fraternization.

Electoral politicians are scrambling to shift ground in line with the voters on whom they depend. With a big election victory, the reds could reinstate the 1997 constitution scrapped by the 2006 coup, void the actions of the coup government, put the coup generals on trial, and bring back former premier Thaksin Shinawatra. In fear of these prospects, die-hard groups are howling for repression rather than negotiation. The conservative and royalist "yellow shirts" have called for martial law. Yet with every day of delay in restarting negotiations, the Democrats' electoral prospects slip still lower.

Since the 2006 coup, parliament has been battered and belittled. Two elected governments have been overthrown. More than 200 elected legislators have been banned from politics. A new constitution deliberately sets out to diminish parliament's role. The consequences are now clear. The country desperately needs to reinstate parliament as a national forum.

Thailand is running out of mechanisms for compromise. Various academic groups, business groups, peace advocates and elder statesmen have failed to gain any traction as potential conciliators. By loudly and repeatedly claiming to be defending the monarchy, the die-hard groups have eroded the institution's old role as mediator. There remains only a slim chance for Mr. Abhisit to play a positive role in the emergence of the new political Thailand, rather than being a casualty in the collapse of the old order."

Wow, what a compelling and IMO spot on analysis of the current political state of affairs in Thailand.

As much as it pains me I do believe the momentum has swung against the current administration. Thailand is apparently not ready for a PM of Abhisit's caliber. But the thought that Thaksin could be re-instated as PM? What a nightmare that would be- can you imagine the carnage there would be when he sends his Red shirt militia after all those who opposed him?

Abhisit doesn't need this job- he should just walk away...

[generalgrant]

One thing is clear: The rotten establishment must and will go.

Only to be replaced by a more rotten establishment. Yep, that's progress Thai-style...

That is one possibility.

"We Won't Get Fooled Again" The Who

Meet the New boss

Same as the old boss

"but the times they are a changing" Dylan

I read some stories out of Thai newspapers.

The government itseld reported over 230 injured army from the fight.

Hardly can this be taken as a simple mob riot.

Yeah, police have shot and killed in riots in the USA and Europe. Yes there have been street fights and buildings a fire. But this act goes well beyond those riots.

A standing army moved upon its own people. It either re-turned fire or opened fire.

The civilian population did not run. It held its ground and fought back. Like one would expect from another army not a mob.

I know it looks as if the Thai army could easily crush the group, and so it could but so why does it not do so?

Maybe because so many members of the military see the Reds as being on their side.

Hope the water cools things off over the holiday.

Killing is never the right way.

Only hate grows from violence.

[bkkjames]

A couple of observations

1) How long till we see a different third party enter the mess?

2) I wonder how many people have taken the convenient opportunity to wash away bad deeds today?

3) From both sides over the last many years have seen very little in terms of following the teachings of their religion

4) Perhaps a third party will emerge that will offer a viable political alternative to the other two?

Ok forget number 4, and no I am not drunk.

[danc]

An interesting article, generalgrant and in line with the foreign media generally - their sense is that there is groundswell over and above Thaksin that has got the incumbents very worried, but most importantly they are not towing the Abhisit govenment line and hence today we have a huge media push from the Democrats - army spokesman saying that the Army are all singing from the same songsheet, Korn on the BBC World plugging the terrorism line and so on. Indeed, the terrorist angle is one they seem very keen on as they are rather crudely trying to touch a nerve with Western governments - you see how you deal with your terrorism problems, well we have to deal with ours the same way, tricky line to tread as those very governments don't like being spun...

My sense is that a big push is being prepared for in which maximum force will be used and to hel_l with the consequences - we can point at all sorts of "terrorist" angles later to justify it. The worry is that the Reds will not go quietly and indeed will gain support from outside the rally site as news spreads...adding further numbers to the melee.

This is pure conjecture on my part but today does seem to be a day of gearing up for something?

[Jingthing]

They are correct to call the red shirts terrorists. Why did they take so long to speak the obvious?

[iwad2010]

Will red shirt leaders blame the PM for how ever many red shirt protesters are killed in road accidents during Songkran?

Yes, these thugs are demanding that Abhisit leave Thailand with the obvious veiled threat of what will happen to him if he doesn't. The reds have ALREADY tried to assassinate Abhisit a number of times in the past. Get real. The red leaders are total thugs. And yet all these Europeans think they are OK. It's sickening.

I do also

Lets us hope the days of " let them eat cake " are over !

Perhaps you should read a Thai language paper. Then you wouldn't have to read what the rest of the world think of your politics.

Open your mind to the rest of the world. Who knows; you may learn something.

[atyclb]

CAT is pretty stupid, no media or news organization will cooperate. Might as well cut the internet off.

I also believe I had seen some relationship between CAT and Shinawatra University. Grants, or scholarships, perhaps CAT boss is pal of Mr. T?

http://dspace.siu.ac.th/handle/1532/230

[chadintheusa]

^TIT and most countries do not support shooting protesters fighting for democracy! (well unless you are Iran\Burma\China or similar country)

Then to be safe the reds should start to fight for democracy instead of fighting for someone's billions. Many countries shoot protesters who are less violent than the reds have been.

[givenall]

Far more impressive, noble and respectable than the yellow shirts who are rich and from next door.

Anyway, more and more Bangkokians become Reds in the sois (at least in my Chatuchak area).

I really don’t care if these idiot put their life on hold since is theirs to do what they want. But they have no right to put everyone else in a situation that nothing is safe anymore. If Thaksin was a PM and they were in fight with them, he would not hesitate to kill all of these people

[atyclb]

Far more impressive, noble and respectable than the yellow shirts who are rich and from next door.

Anyway, more and more Bangkokians become Reds in the sois (at least in my Chatuchak area).

I really don't care if these idiot put their life on hold since is theirs to do what they want. But they have no right to put everyone else in a situation that nothing is safe anymore. If Thaksin was a PM and they were in fight with them, he would not hesitate to kill all of these people

Quite an interesting and accurate point you make.

[Jingthing]

Far more impressive, noble and respectable than the yellow shirts who are rich and from next door.

Anyway, more and more Bangkokians become Reds in the sois (at least in my Chatuchak area).

I really don’t care if these idiot put their life on hold since is theirs to do what they want. But they have no right to put everyone else in a situation that nothing is safe anymore. If Thaksin was a PM and they were in fight with them, he would not hesitate to kill all of these people

You're right. Thinking the Thaksin reds are going to bring freedom and democracy and a rich life for the poor is more childish than believing in the Tooth Fairy.

Civil disobedience done peacefully is OK, but that means being ready to be arrested without resisting. Some of the naive redheads here actually believed the red terrorist insurgents were a peaceful movement. How could anyone really believe that after Black Songkran?

Edited April 14, 2010 by Jingthing

[Throatwobbler]

I may be wrong but no one is planting or harvesting rice in issan at the moment and it is dry season I thought that planting was done between june and july and harvest between october and december ?

Yes you are wrong, parts of issan can grow two crops a year, definitely in parts of Surin

But large areas can only grow one crop a year. My girlfriend comes for a rural area 30 km outside of Chiang Rai. A very rural supposedly pro Thaksin area. She tells me, and I have spoken to them myself, they are not a fan of Thaksin and consider him yet another, in the long line, of corrupt leaders who does not care about them.

So from what I've seen all these people who talk about a landslide red victory have not talked to the massive silent majority. just the vocal minority.

[Throatwobbler]

Good post about the 100,000 thais at the top of the pile having all the spoils. Only have to watch TV to see it in action.

Also, this debunks that insulting Falang proverb about Thailand "money number one".

It will soon be over. The Army has changed sides, (many it appears during the push against the reds), the EC has changed sides, the opposition coalition are changing sides, the population are definatly more vocally red this time. Many felt pinned down during the Yellow tyranny by charges of not loving the one that they all do love.

Not this time, those too shy to stand up against the PAD are now there in full force.

I hope the Reds don't blow this chance. There is chance now to bring the country forward from its feudal system and for the population to through off the oppressors. Just think how hard it is going to be now for the Police and Army mafia to collect their tea money from businesses! Or is it the businesses that are part of the problem by roling over and paying it? More spine needed at the middle and top of society me thinks!

I'm not holding my breath, but there is a chance now.... just a chance.

Do you seriously think that a change to the reds will stop (or even reduce) the corruption in the police force? Do you think that is even remotely possible?

Corruption is a huge problem in Thailand, and the red leaders (particularly Dear Leader) are a huge part of that. The rich business people in the N/NE are also up to their necks in it. If the protestors are protesting against corruption they should be looking in their own backyards first.

I'm not saying the Dems or any other politician are not corrupt, but to suggest that the reds will reduce corruption is laughable.

He Obviously can't remember the huge corruption going on the last time Thaksin was in power, or like so many other pro reds selective memory.

[way2muchcoffee]

Far more impressive, noble and respectable than the yellow shirts who are rich and from next door.

Anyway, more and more Bangkokians become Reds in the sois (at least in my Chatuchak area).

I really don’t care if these idiot put their life on hold since is theirs to do what they want. But they have no right to put everyone else in a situation that nothing is safe anymore. If Thaksin was a PM and they were in fight with them, he would not hesitate to kill all of these people

Not really true is it given the length of time the PAD were protesting.

Yes - they were attacked by redshirt mobs.

Yes - they were bombed by 'unknown' assailants.

Yes - The were cornered at Parliament and bombed with Chinese military CS-gas canisters.

In the case of the PAD, the military refused to play ball, and the police are the police so not much help there either. There was no operation against the PAD that paralleled events on last Saturday night.

Edited April 14, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[bkksteviejai]

I may be wrong but no one is planting or harvesting rice in issan at the moment and it is dry season I thought that planting was done between june and july and harvest between october and december ?

Yes you are wrong, parts of issan can grow two crops a year, definitely in parts of Surin

But large areas can only grow one crop a year. My girlfriend comes for a rural area 30 km outside of Chiang Rai. A very rural supposedly pro Thaksin area. She tells me, and I have spoken to them myself, they are not a fan of Thaksin and consider him yet another, in the long line, of corrupt leaders who does not care about them.

So from what I've seen all these people who talk about a landslide red victory have not talked to the massive silent majority. just the vocal minority.

Only one way to find that out eh. Then we shall see about these supposed maoist tendencies........

[britmaveric]

Indeed, shouldnt fear an election, but welcome one.

[yoshiwara]

Indeed, shouldnt fear an election, but welcome one.

yes, after the military reshuffle, after Thaksin can get his corrupt hands on it.

[britmaveric]

^let's do it before - no time like the present. July/Aug will work.

[bkksteviejai]

Far more impressive, noble and respectable than the yellow shirts who are rich and from next door.

Anyway, more and more Bangkokians become Reds in the sois (at least in my Chatuchak area).

I really don’t care if these idiot put their life on hold since is theirs to do what they want. But they have no right to put everyone else in a situation that nothing is safe anymore. If Thaksin was a PM and they were in fight with them, he would not hesitate to kill all of these people

Not really true is it given the length of time the PAD were protesting.

Yes - they were attacked by redshirt mobs.

Yes - they were bombed by 'unknown' assailants.

Yes - The were cornered at Parliament and bombed with Chinese military CS-gas canisters.

In the case of the PAD, the military refused to play ball, and the police are the police so not much help there either. There was no operation against the PAD that paralleled events on last Saturday night.

Enduring image of the PAD occupation of the airport was one of their number bitch slapping a copper who dared to take a semi-aggressive posture against him, after policemans's half hearted attempt at "seizing control" he legged it. I was nearly crying with laughter, but also slightly worried at the complete lack of will, particularly as it was past the one week mark of occupation. Personally I have no time for any of these clowns...but I reckon they went in a bit harder this time.

I'm trying to imagine how I'd feel if all this was going on in my home country / home town.......when your life is perpetually inconvenienced by a mob, however valid their motive......it'll start to grate for sure. Reckon there could some fireworks from the locals soon, just my opinion.

[way2muchcoffee]

^let's do it before - no time like the present. July/Aug will work.

Christmas sounds good to me. Things need to cool down. Hold elections during the cool season.

In BKK I think the cool season lasted about 1 week last year.

Edited April 14, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[chadintheusa]

A red-shirt supporter punched Deputy Agriculture Minister Supachai Phosu in the ear Wednesday while he was visiting constituents in Nakhon Phanom to mark Songkran.

from the Nation

Now that's democracy Red shirt style

[generalgrant]

Poor Jing accept that most of the world sides with the red shirts and their plight. Let's hope Abhisit realizes how he has been used and packs it in.

Britmaveric ... are you a clown in disguise?

Most of the world does not side with terrorists

In most countries this revolt would have been

put down in opening days ...

Hey Lew

Calling one a clown does not make him change his mind does it.

You say the world thinks the Reds are terrorists and thus we must come to the conclusion, if we used your logic, that Thaksan is a terrorist. BUT wait--not one nation arrests him. Thailand itself could have arrested him and his family but did not.

Maybe you are mistaken.

Looks like the world is not looking to arrest the reds for terrorism.

I think you are using the language incorrectly just as GW Bush and his gang of nuts did in America. By your definition, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, and anyone calling for drastic change in a government would be called terrorists.

The IRA of Ireland were for sure Terrorist to many Brits but were freedom fighters for the many catholics of Northern Ireland. In the end, the Brits and the IRA had to make a deal.

In the end, the Powerful of Thailand will have to make a deal with the people just as did the powerful of the UK so so long ago when the landowners gave the people in THE ultimate political rule and government rule of the nation.

For sure blowing up people or shooting them is violent.

But the Thai government currently in power under the current system has not been free of killing has it. So are they terrorists?

Easy call here.

The losers are the terrorists so the terrorist in this case will be written about in the history books.

[chadintheusa]

The reason people see the Reds as terrorists is that they use fear, intimidation and violence to get their way. Kidnapping, grenades and entering government buildings by force are not legitimate forms of protest. They have been terrorizing the people of Bangkok by restricting their freedoms and preventing them from doing simple things like going to work, or accessing public services like hospitals.

A police force attempting to enforce laws and protect citizens using accepted policing practices is hardly terrorism. When people see riot police and decide to attack them rather than comply with the law they bear the responsibility for their own actions, and if they fail to listen to repeated warnings they shouldn't complain if they get hurt.

[britmaveric]

So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.

If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.

If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.

[Mosha]

Strange but her majesties forces went in to protect the catholics (small c intended.) The last coup had the right idea, teach people about democracy. They just got the time scale wrong. I've said it before but I'll say it again.

1 People selling their vote should lose their right to vote for life.

2 People buying votes should not be allowed to stand for office of any kind.

Shit how hard can it be?

Edited April 14, 2010 by Mosha

[bubba]

I may be wrong but no one is planting or harvesting rice in issan at the moment and it is dry season I thought that planting was done between june and july and harvest between october and december ?

Yes you are wrong, parts of issan can grow two crops a year, definitely in parts of Surin

But large areas can only grow one crop a year. My girlfriend comes for a rural area 30 km outside of Chiang Rai. A very rural supposedly pro Thaksin area. She tells me, and I have spoken to them myself, they are not a fan of Thaksin and consider him yet another, in the long line, of corrupt leaders who does not care about them.

So from what I've seen all these people who talk about a landslide red victory have not talked to the massive silent majority. just the vocal minority.

It would indeed make sense that many farmers in Chiang Rai wouldn't be enamoured with Thaksin. After all, Thaksin cut a deal with the Chinese and pushed through a China-Thailand free trade agreement with amazing speed. One of the key provisions of the FTA was immediate, nearly unlimited and unrestricted access of cheap Chinese agricultural products duty-free into to Thailand. Much cheaper than what Thai farmers could get. Fields went fallow because it wasn't worth planting anything. Did all the northern redshirts forget about that, and later, the rice, cabbage and garlic farmer protests where farmers were dumping garlic and blocking roads in protest of Thaksin's FTA? From bilaterals.org: In all, the China-Thailand FTA has not benefitted small farmers on either side of the border. It has only been favourable for businessmen who control the trade and are able to use it to expand their contract farming operations, such as Thailand’s (ethnic Chinese-owned) Charoen Pokphand Group.

And have a look at the Wikipedia entry for Charoen Pokphand: The Charoen Pokphand Group was the major contributor to the Thais Love Thais party and still maintain a close relationship with the former Prime Minister Thaksin

Who profited from Thaksin's China-Thai FTA? The northern farmers, or the business elite who instantly found a new and huge source of income by being middlemen in wholesaling the cheap Chinese produce to Thais? Exactly which "elite" and what sort of corruption is this red shirt movement fighting for?