Thai Army Says Planning Operation To Clear Protesters

[on-on]

Man, someone has really cranked up the music. I'm over by Ari, but I assume I'm hearing Ratchaprasong here. Good lord.

Nah, that's coming from the Army compound behind Villa - those boys have been cranking it up over the last few days.

I hadn't heard it the previous nights (been up working), but you are correct, I went to check it out and sure enough, there they were.

[rabo]

Laws are rules that a Society gives to itself.

How does "Society" give the rules/laws to itself?

De we assume that "laws" are always good laws. Laws can be written and "imposed" on society by those who have the power to make them..and for the sole purpose of protecting the lawmakers.

Without getting all philosophical, No.

The laws in question here are clauses written into the constitution after the coup that have severe penalties for political and electorial corruption aimed at stemming the rampant levels of corruption that plague the country.

You can bet that some politicians and political parties were/are not happy about these laws. However, such laws are necessary if Thailand is to advance its infant democracy. Some have legitimately complained that the laws are too strict. Others have complained because they curtail their corrupt practices.

Edited April 17, 2010 by rabo

[mic6ard]

now with the military in charge, it's only time until total outbreak of violence occur. What I can't believe is why would a politician be in charge of security in the first place, isn't it a place for either military or police officers? This the make or break point for the gov't.

and here's a hint on planning an operation, KEEP YOUR F@#$ING MOUTH SHUT, don't go broadcasting plans. Get cellphones away from the troops and officers.

[culicine]

So the headline at the top, saying Government ready for more talks with Reds means the machine guns will do the talking?

It is the red leadership under instructions from Thaksin who prefer petrol bombs to negotiations.

you forgot to mention that this would not be happening if the ligitmate government (red shirts) were still in power

i am apolitical....

The red shirts are a political party? That's news to me...

[hextac]

Neutral.

Thailand is my adopted country and some of the comments on this board make me very shy, This is not our country we are guests and we cannot impose our educational standards and freedoms on this developing country. People seem to forget that Thaksin ultimate goal is to be President of Thailand he wants rid of the Privy council and an end to the Royal Family which just shows what a selfish man this is he should be charged with treason against the State of Thailand and strip him of being a citizan of Thailand.

Well done on your adoptive status. I can't possibly compare to you. I haven't been here for 12 years, I have no Thai wife, I don't have 2 Thai children, and I don't support an extended family of about 10 people. I'm really sorry I made you feel shy. Truly, madly, deeply, I am.

[humfurry]

Just read in that other online paper that the UDD leaders will surrender May 15th :D

[chadintheusa]

Just read in that other online paper that the UDD leaders will surrender May 15th

Why not today, and what will they do for the next month? They must be betting that the PM on May 15 will be one that will be handing out amnesty to reds for all their crimes.

[ovaltina]

it's amazing that this army can't even surround a hotel and remove some fat middle aged men from a room without incident. If the army can't protect the country against a bunch of farmers with sticks, what the heck would they do if say someone like Cambodia decided this would be a nice country to have? I wonder how many countries out there are looking at Thailand as possible fair game, seeing how helpless they really appear. Maybe the moral of the story is, image is just that, all show and no substance. Time to get it together and prove it has what it takes to protect the women and children, or maybe the women and children should do it instead?

The problem is that the government and the army/police are trying to avoid mass casualties. If the Cambodians (in an extremely hypothetical situation) were to invade I think the Thai army would have no qualms about slaughtering them. On the other hand, you have to wonder how they are unable to arrest even one of the crooks calling themselves "leaders" of the red shirts. Personally, I think Abhisit is making the best of what is an impossible situation, and I'm sure he wishes he had something more effective than the Keystone Kops to rely on.

Unfortunately, this will likely all end with Abhisit resigning and probably moving overseas where he can probably make a good living under far less stressful circumstances. Thailand will have lost one of it's most intelligent, and educated Prime Ministers in decades and will end up with someone of the caliber of a Samak Sundaravej or a Chalerm - just what the country really deserves, so it can remain the underdeveloped, corrupt, laughing stock it seems to want to be. I used to love Thailand and respect its people. The last several years since the election of Thaksin have made me reconsider.

Well said.

The government is not fighting back, because it is not actually fighting. Like the saying ''when your back is against the wall you really fight back." I'm sure Cambodia or anybody would find that if Thailand were under serious threat they would defend themselves with strength.

There is no reason for an educated and compassionate gentleman like Abhisit to use more force than is neccesary.

I have my own feelings about why the hotel arrest incident was 'bungled' , specifically that it wasn't.

The police knew that Mr.So-Called-I-Am-An-Honest-Red-Spokesman-For-The-Rural-Poor-And-I'm-Here-To-Overthrow-The-Decadent-Bangkok-Elite-With-Their-Fancy-Hotels-And-Big-Lunches, was infact staying in one of those enemy elite hotels and stuffing his fat, lying face with foie-gras, he had gone straight from 'revolutionary' to being 'the new boss,same as the old boss' but had forgotten the actual middle part, the actual successful coup part & had gone straight for the after-coup self-indulgence, prematurely. Mr Abhisit could not have bought better Tv coverage than what was shown in the 'bungled' raid.

Abhisit and the police knew he was there, with his face in the swill, and they couldn't think of anything more hilarious and damaging to the Red's so-called cause, than to see one of their heroic anti-elite leaders fat a$$ tumbling ungracefully from the 3* elitist fancy hotel on every public TV set from here to the deepest Amazon.

It is the first time I've seen Abhisit smirk for ages, yesterday, and I'm not surprised.

[Mario2008]

Post containing reference to unknown person called "tuksin" deleted.

[chadintheusa]

Post containing reference to unknown person called "tuksin" deleted.

Unknown? I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count.

[stevotoo]

The whole story is a series of contradictions:

The government calls itself ‘Democrat’ but has little interest in true democracy

Parliament is supposed to be sovereign, but there are greater powers than the elected government

Many people, although they know there is great injustice in society, continue to support a regime that has perpetuated this injustice for ages

The reds have a vaguely socialist position but are sponsored by a dictatorial capitalist

Most people are loyal to feudal style individuals, or neo-feudal overlords on the other side, but few base their support on principles

Farang seem to base their loyalty on ‘principles’ when principles play a small part in the ethos of both sides

They all claim to be peaceful, but as with any large group of people, there are factions who are not peaceful -each group is judged by the actions of these minorities and is tarred by the same brush

The solution relies on the rule of law- but few seem to respect the rule of law

The army has been made responsible to end the crisis but cannot completely depend on their own troops to support their position

The police are being asked to carry out their instructions without a concerted will to do it.

The media probably want to report the news but are muzzled by the government

There is no room for negotiation as there is no common ground

Can you believe what you read? Probably not

Can you believe what you see? It probably depends on who is showing it to you.

Can you guess what will happen? Probably not, as it depends on the decisions of individuals who probably haven’t made them yet

Can you see how it will end? I’m not sure it will ‘end’

If the government resigns they will lose the election, if they lose the election they will lose their favorable constitution and their control of the army, and the yellows will take to the streets; if the government doesn’t resign, the protest will continue; if the protests continue, it will result in a clampdown, if there is a clampdown, it will deepen the divide. If there is a clampdown but the rank and file army does not respond to its instructions then who knows...

[granuaile]

I wonder if the 6 PAD guards who were caught with a fair few guns and ammo are being treated as 'terrorists'???

There is a difference. The yellows did not use their guns in this round and given the violence of the reds before this admin and before, not only now, I can understand a need for protection. I see a self defense aspect to their possession of guns. The reds used guns, grenades, and fire bombs against government personnel, government property, and the property of individuals - that is the crucial difference, and why the reds are accuse of terrorism BIG DIFFERENCE...

[nakachalet]

Just read in that other online paper that the UDD leaders will surrender May 15th

Why not today, and what will they do for the next month? They must be betting that the PM on May 15 will be one that will be handing out amnesty to reds for all their crimes.

i surely hope and pray that they are correct....

but may 15, is a long way off....

some may be able to surrend vertically.... while others might have to surrender horizontally.... even before may 15.... a date that is meaningless and eternal in the scope of events presently prevail....

my heart is much saddened.... for the redshirt leaders.... individually and collectively.... EVERYONE OF THEM ARE ALREADY MILLIONNAIRES,

ESPECIALLY FOR VEE-RA.... HE EVEN HAS PLENTY OF EARTHLY POSSESSIONS IN U.S.A.... confirmed by thai restaurant source....

ask him to deny it.... while he is speaking on the podium.... THAT IS A TRUE PARADOX.... a millionnaire disguided as a poor redshirt comrade.... fighting for social equality and all....

surely this is nothing new.... right? for most of the more informed thaivisa readers and posters....

[Terminator]

Smart move, Army is now solely responsible for the inevitable, imminent carnage.

any more blood still doesnt look good for the govt

and during happy songkran times 220+ have been killed but nobody gives a sh!t, so what is a little blood more...

[geriatrickid]

You take the cake with your dribble

last time I looked there was no famine in Thailand and never has been I know a lot of people from Isaan who work and make decent money, more than able to feed their family. Yes, there are some lazy bums who rather take ja baa and than top themselves blaming everybody else but not themselves of course.

The only reason the reds have to be here is for the leaders to jump on Takki's wagon and they hope for huge rewards - than there are the other gangsters who are making money and enjoy to riot (like the leaders) and the rest have got no clue as to what is really going on but get fed and paid as well. Mind you, most of them have already left and what is left is every thug from Isaan who is here to have a bit of war

Unfortunately here are some facts that you are not aware of;

- Undernutrition is a recognized problem in Thailand.

- The country is indeed at risk of famine.

The most obvious cause of famine will be the looming drought. As water sources disappear there is a real threat of the remaining water resources becoming salinated or tainted with pollution. This isn't due to the politics of the street. It is a fact of life and a real threat.

In respect to undernutrition, the major culprit is poverty and sadly there are a growing number of children in this country, as in the rest of the world, that go to bed hungry and that wake up hungry. Tremendous inroads started to be made in 1996 with the apex of poverty being reduced during the Thaksin era. Please, do not accuse me of being a Thaksin supporter because this is what the numbers were and are. Besides, the turning point for improvement was in 1998 and Thaksin was not even in power. However, the numbers stopped improving at the end of the Thaksin era and it seems they are deteriorating now.

Farangs that live in the resort cities and bangkok are oblivious to the sad reality that Thailand is showing a dismal trend.

When children under the age of 5 are examined, sadly approx. 12% have stunted growth, 9% are underweight and 4% are diagnosed as wasting (i.e. starving to death). At the same time, 10-15% of primary school children are classified as obese.

Think about the implications. It means that the poor are getting so poor they cannot afford food and that the wealthy are getting so wealthy that they are creating a culture of obesity.

Where do these numbers come from? Respected health organizations such as Mahidol University and the U.N. If you don't believe me go and talk to kraisid Tontsirin at Mahidol, which is hardly a hotbed of Thaksin support. Better yet, read his last seminar presentation

http://www.icn2009.com/Presentations/Oct%2...y%20Mode%5D.pdf

Please consider this. If a person does not make enough money to purchase a balanced diet, that person will suffer. Look at the wages earned by people outside of Bangkok. Now look at the cost of food today. The wages have remained static, yet basic food has increased in price over the past year. Rice has seen increases of how many times in the past year? (I believe it is 3X)

How do you expect a poor person to eat?

People can toss all sorts of fancy political theories around or even blame Thaksin if they want, but I believe what is driving alot of the protestors is the that they are tired of the systemic poverty. When you are poor and have nothing, you are more open to people with a message of salvation.

[anotherpeter]

I wonder if the 6 PAD guards who were caught with a fair few guns and ammo are being treated as 'terrorists'???

There is a difference. The yellows did not use their guns in this round and given the violence of the reds before this admin and before, not only now, I can understand a need for protection. I see a self defense aspect to their possession of guns. The reds used guns, grenades, and fire bombs against government personnel, government property, and the property of individuals - that is the crucial difference, and why the reds are accuse of terrorism BIG DIFFERENCE...

The reds aren't being called terrorists for carrying arms. They are being called terrorists for using them.

[Jimmu]

Terminator. and during happy songkran times 220+ have been killed but nobody gives a sh!t, so what is a little blood more..

Good point! Let's get this nonsense over quick...

[Terminator]

it's amazing that this army can't even surround a hotel and remove some fat middle aged men from a room without incident. If the army can't protect the country against a bunch of farmers with sticks, what the heck would they do if say someone like Cambodia decided this would be a nice country to have? I wonder how many countries out there are looking at Thailand as possible fair game, seeing how helpless they really appear. Maybe the moral of the story is, image is just that, all show and no substance. Time to get it together and prove it has what it takes to protect the women and children, or maybe the women and children should do it instead?

The problem is that the government and the army/police are trying to avoid mass casualties. If the Cambodians (in an extremely hypothetical situation) were to invade I think the Thai army would have no qualms about slaughtering them. On the other hand, you have to wonder how they are unable to arrest even one of the crooks calling themselves "leaders" of the red shirts. Personally, I think Abhisit is making the best of what is an impossible situation, and I'm sure he wishes he had something more effective than the Keystone Kops to rely on.

Unfortunately, this will likely all end with Abhisit resigning and probably moving overseas where he can probably make a good living under far less stressful circumstances. Thailand will have lost one of it's most intelligent, and educated Prime Ministers in decades and will end up with someone of the caliber of a Samak Sundaravej or a Chalerm - just what the country really deserves, so it can remain the underdeveloped, corrupt, laughing stock it seems to want to be. I used to love Thailand and respect its people. The last several years since the election of Thaksin have made me reconsider.

Well said.

The government is not fighting back, because it is not actually fighting. Like the saying ''when your back is against the wall you really fight back." I'm sure Cambodia or anybody would find that if Thailand were under serious threat they would defend themselves with strength.

There is no reason for an educated and compassionate gentleman like Abhisit to use more force than is neccesary.

I have my own feelings about why the hotel arrest incident was 'bungled' , specifically that it wasn't.

The police knew that Mr.So-Called-I-Am-An-Honest-Red-Spokesman-For-The-Rural-Poor-And-I'm-Here-To-Overthrow-The-Decadent-Bangkok-Elite-With-Their-Fancy-Hotels-And-Big-Lunches, was infact staying in one of those enemy elite hotels and stuffing his fat, lying face with foie-gras, he had gone straight from 'revolutionary' to being 'the new boss,same as the old boss' but had forgotten the actual middle part, the actual successful coup part & had gone straight for the after-coup self-indulgence, prematurely. Mr Abhisit could not have bought better Tv coverage than what was shown in the 'bungled' raid.

Abhisit and the police knew he was there, with his face in the swill, and they couldn't think of anything more hilarious and damaging to the Red's so-called cause, than to see one of their heroic anti-elite leaders fat a$$ tumbling ungracefully from the 3* elitist fancy hotel on every public TV set from here to the deepest Amazon.

It is the first time I've seen Abhisit smirk for ages, yesterday, and I'm not surprised.

i agree with 100% on this one, just to many holes in the story that does not make sense, plus he's picked up another charge for resisting arrest...

Edited April 17, 2010 by Terminator

[anotherpeter]

<snip>

In respect to undernutrition, the major culprit is poverty and sadly there are a growing number of children in this country, as in the rest of the world, that go to bed hungry and that wake up hungry. Tremendous inroads started to be made in 1996 with the apex of poverty being reduced during the Thaksin era. Please, do not accuse me of being a Thaksin supporter because this is what the numbers were and are. Besides, the turning point for improvement was in 1998 and Thaksin was not even in power. However, the numbers stopped improving at the end of the Thaksin era and it seems they are deteriorating now.

<snip>

Does that mean that Thaksin didn't put in any sustainable policies to help the poor?

As soon as he stopped handing out money, the situation with the poor got worse?

Edited April 17, 2010 by anotherpeter

[stevotoo]

Nelson Mandela was called a ''terrorist' before he became a 'freedom fighter'; the IRA and Yasser Arafat were 'terrorists' until they became part of the 'peace process', Stalin was a 'revolutionary' until he became a dictator A rose would smell as sweet by any other name- and so would a fart.

[rabo]

it's amazing that this army can't even surround a hotel and remove some fat middle aged men from a room without incident. If the army can't protect the country against a bunch of farmers with sticks, what the heck would they do if say someone like Cambodia decided this would be a nice country to have? I wonder how many countries out there are looking at Thailand as possible fair game, seeing how helpless they really appear. Maybe the moral of the story is, image is just that, all show and no substance. Time to get it together and prove it has what it takes to protect the women and children, or maybe the women and children should do it instead?

The problem is that the government and the army/police are trying to avoid mass casualties. If the Cambodians (in an extremely hypothetical situation) were to invade I think the Thai army would have no qualms about slaughtering them. On the other hand, you have to wonder how they are unable to arrest even one of the crooks calling themselves "leaders" of the red shirts. Personally, I think Abhisit is making the best of what is an impossible situation, and I'm sure he wishes he had something more effective than the Keystone Kops to rely on.

Unfortunately, this will likely all end with Abhisit resigning and probably moving overseas where he can probably make a good living under far less stressful circumstances. Thailand will have lost one of it's most intelligent, and educated Prime Ministers in decades and will end up with someone of the caliber of a Samak Sundaravej or a Chalerm - just what the country really deserves, so it can remain the underdeveloped, corrupt, laughing stock it seems to want to be. I used to love Thailand and respect its people. The last several years since the election of Thaksin have made me reconsider.

Well said.

The government is not fighting back, because it is not actually fighting. Like the saying ''when your back is against the wall you really fight back." I'm sure Cambodia or anybody would find that if Thailand were under serious threat they would defend themselves with strength.

There is no reason for an educated and compassionate gentleman like Abhisit to use more force than is neccesary.

I have my own feelings about why the hotel arrest incident was 'bungled' , specifically that it wasn't.

The police knew that Mr.So-Called-I-Am-An-Honest-Red-Spokesman-For-The-Rural-Poor-And-I'm-Here-To-Overthrow-The-Decadent-Bangkok-Elite-With-Their-Fancy-Hotels-And-Big-Lunches, was infact staying in one of those enemy elite hotels and stuffing his fat, lying face with foie-gras, he had gone straight from 'revolutionary' to being 'the new boss,same as the old boss' but had forgotten the actual middle part, the actual successful coup part & had gone straight for the after-coup self-indulgence, prematurely. Mr Abhisit could not have bought better Tv coverage than what was shown in the 'bungled' raid.

Abhisit and the police knew he was there, with his face in the swill, and they couldn't think of anything more hilarious and damaging to the Red's so-called cause, than to see one of their heroic anti-elite leaders fat a$ tumbling ungracefully from the 3* elitist fancy hotel on every public TV set from here to the deepest Amazon.

It is the first time I've seen Abhisit smirk for ages, yesterday, and I'm not surprised.

Interesting theory and the additional images of a hand-grenade and timer would fit your theory, too. One could further argue that Abhisit et al would not want to create an emotional flashpoint by actually capturing the leaders.

But alas this is Thailand and I don't think so. Reports I read have two groups of police involved, a large undercover group that had taken residence in the hotel and a smaller second group that showed up later presumably after the first group tipped their hand by asking for the access keys for the red leaders' rooms.

I thus assume the first group was pulling off the operation and the second group, maybe friends of the red leaders came in, busted up the operation, and helped the potbellied reds escape. They later posed as "captured police" while sitting and laughing it up for while, and were then free to go.

[za9]

Am I the only one wondering why Abhisit is handing this over to same guy who said parliament should be dissolved a few days ago?

They're Thai! Where's the confusion!

I agree, typical Thailand too many Generals but no Warriors.

[Grey11]

Maybe he is keen to see Karadic in the Hague!

I think seriously the reds will negotiate with him, just to rub salt into the wounds of whats left of the government. Army conspicuaously absent this morning.

Why then wasn't Thaksin tried for genocide before the World Court when he had 2,500 "drug dealers" killed? The U.N investigation found that less than 200 were drug dealers. That is how Thaksin punished his business & political enemies in the north & northeast of Thailand which he controls - as we can still see by these paid protestors. Our maid across the street told my wife that "all of Nothern Thailand belongs to Kuhn Thaksin." How many people in the three southern most provinces did Thaksin have the army kill? 300? 500? I have heard higher numbers. PM Abhisit has taken an oath as PM to uphold law & order for the protection of ALL Thais. That includes those who are successful business people in Bangkok whom you seem to want eliminated permanently just as you want the overthrow & the death of PM Abhisit. When a group of people whose only purpose is to overthrow the government, by force if necessary (they have plenty of guns), and commit one of the most filthy, nasty, disgusting acts the world has ever seen - throwing blood - no country but Thailand would allow these terrorists to continue. These thugs need to be stopped by whatever means necessary. They want war, they want blood, they want the PM hanged, then let them fight & let the military take them down. BTW I have never seen such a weakness in a police force or military in my life. They would be brought up on charges and dismissed from any other military or police for in the world. Notice how the Red Shirt leaders stay in hotels while their minions sleep on the streets. Notice how thaksin flies around the world in his private jet enjoying himself. These Red Shirts are so ignorant they can't even see how they are being used. Oh, I forgot, they are being paid. The Reds came through Phuket here - & three store owners in our neighborhood told us about it - and offered them 500 baht per day plus free food & transportation to Bangkok. Well, they have ruined the economy and made Thailand look like a Banana Republic in the world's eyes. That's what Thaksin wanted. And now he is laughing about the weakness of the government to stop these neanderthal mob.

[BKjohn]

You take the cake with your dribble

last time I looked there was no famine in Thailand and never has been I know a lot of people from Isaan who work and make decent money, more than able to feed their family. Yes, there are some lazy bums who rather take ja baa and than top themselves blaming everybody else but not themselves of course.

The only reason the reds have to be here is for the leaders to jump on Takki's wagon and they hope for huge rewards - than there are the other gangsters who are making money and enjoy to riot (like the leaders) and the rest have got no clue as to what is really going on but get fed and paid as well. Mind you, most of them have already left and what is left is every thug from Isaan who is here to have a bit of war

Unfortunately here are some facts that you are not aware of;

- Undernutrition is a recognized problem in Thailand.

- The country is indeed at risk of famine.

The most obvious cause of famine will be the looming drought. As water sources disappear there is a real threat of the remaining water resources becoming salinated or tainted with pollution. This isn't due to the politics of the street. It is a fact of life and a real threat.

In respect to undernutrition, the major culprit is poverty and sadly there are a growing number of children in this country, as in the rest of the world, that go to bed hungry and that wake up hungry. Tremendous inroads started to be made in 1996 with the apex of poverty being reduced during the Thaksin era. Please, do not accuse me of being a Thaksin supporter because this is what the numbers were and are. Besides, the turning point for improvement was in 1998 and Thaksin was not even in power. However, the numbers stopped improving at the end of the Thaksin era and it seems they are deteriorating now.

Farangs that live in the resort cities and bangkok are oblivious to the sad reality that Thailand is showing a dismal trend.

When children under the age of 5 are examined, sadly approx. 12% have stunted growth, 9% are underweight and 4% are diagnosed as wasting (i.e. starving to death). At the same time, 10-15% of primary school children are classified as obese.

Think about the implications. It means that the poor are getting so poor they cannot afford food and that the wealthy are getting so wealthy that they are creating a culture of obesity.

Where do these numbers come from? Respected health organizations such as Mahidol University and the U.N. If you don't believe me go and talk to kraisid Tontsirin at Mahidol, which is hardly a hotbed of Thaksin support. Better yet, read his last seminar presentation

http://www.icn2009.com/Presentations/Oct%2...y%20Mode%5D.pdf

Please consider this. If a person does not make enough money to purchase a balanced diet, that person will suffer. Look at the wages earned by people outside of Bangkok. Now look at the cost of food today. The wages have remained static, yet basic food has increased in price over the past year. Rice has seen increases of how many times in the past year? (I believe it is 3X)

How do you expect a poor person to eat?

People can toss all sorts of fancy political theories around or even blame Thaksin if they want, but I believe what is driving alot of the protestors is the that they are tired of the systemic poverty. When you are poor and have nothing, you are more open to people with a message of salvation.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is Thailand and yes, I have been here a very long time and I employed staff up country and when it came down to wages, the ministry of work was on my back to make sure minimum wages were paid.

Considering the cost of living up-country and the family units there is no real reason why children should be starving. The strange thing is, there always seems to be enough money around for a TV and for drink, but as you say not for food. Fish and fruit are abandoned and considering that most of these people are rice farmers, you are contradicting yourself here since the price of rice has gone up, so has income.

The main problem is that they all want to live beyond their means and to buy motorcycles and fancy clothes. They borrow money from the ever present money lenders and by the time wages are paid, they have to pay a big chunk of those to the money lender. Gambling is another cause for financial problems of many Isanies , but they can not blame the government for this!

There is a problem I admit with the IQ level because most do not use salt but only fish sauce. It is a medical fact that especially during growth, the brain needs Iodine to develop and when this is missing..... well, the results we see gathered in Bangkok right now. Chulalungkorn University did a study on this along time ago and came up with the same results. But this is not caused by poverty, simply by choice.

Edited April 17, 2010 by BKjohn

[animatic]

Laws are rules that a Society gives to itself. It should be established by the majority will. If the Laws are established through Dictatorship, corruption or are twisted by a Minority, there the Laws are "unlawful" and are not respectable.

Laws should not be the decision of the strongest, but should correspond to a consensus of the Society.

It is the first step, then you have a second step: the application of the Laws: if the application is unfair, double standard, corrupted, twisted...the Laws loose credibility and are no more the Reference that they should be.

Laws are sometimes difficult to interpret,controversial, and can conduct to opposite interpretation: this makes wealthy generations of Lawyers in our Countries.

In Thailand....Laws are twisted by successive governments, unfairly applied, controversials....

Are the laws in the 1997 consititution "lawful" laws?

The red shirts are generally complaining about the use of those laws.

While screeming they want a roll back to that constitution.

Of course that rolls back laws that have made election fraud harder,

even as they have been twice nailed for 1997 laws.

The disingenuous nature of red demands, to help Puea Thai Party are

just so much blather for their corrupt paymasters. This is not about

creating a more fair and equitabler Thai opolitical system, but about giving

them BACK their advantage to rule without consideration for others or the laws.

It is urgent that a Neutral PM takes over, cleans the mess, restores the credibility and particularly the double standard application.

Sadly at this time that person doesn't exist,

at least not one who would take the job.

I would be happy if former FM Tej Bundag took the job,

but I suspect he is too smart to do that.

The best and the brightest of Thailand typically avoid being dragged down into the mire.

[animatic]

It is a basic strategy in social conflicts (strikes for example) and well known from Unionists and HRs (human Resources Managers).

The leaders on both side have to list the claims, then evaluate the Power behind each one. In order to solve a social issue, as HR, you accept the claims that you find justified and which demobilise the "troops" of the Union(s).

The leaders have often not the same priorities than the troops, but when they are undermined because the troops have gotten what they want... the leaders have to sign the peace with the Boss.

I do not care about the leaders, I care about the People who have important and real issues, if you fix those issues, the mass of People will go home, the Leaders will have to follow because their troops are happy with the results. (From my experience of Basic training of Unionist/ HR)

But if the mass of the people only ever listen to one source of information, and the governments solitions are not presented by that source, then the masses will never know that their issues are being solved. Even if any information gets through to the masses it is usually dismissed as lies and propaganda.

They have made up their minds. The government will not help them and can not help them. Any information to the contrary is ignored.

You underestimate People, most of them have no reason to take the risk to die or to be injuried. But they are condemned to death through their poor living conditions (suicides I have already described in Issan village because unable to feed the family)

PEACE is worthy to try, is not it?

But those People are fed up by lies of successive Governments (And Democrats have a long history...), they want ACTION (BUDGET) and not rhetoric only

And when they are offered actual help, their so called leaders; saddled with vested interests,

call the real and effective help presently aimed their way lies and deceit.

Makes no difference about the past, lying about the present is still prevalent.

Just so those same interests don't lose profits and control.

As Jerry McGuire said: " Follow the Money."

add to that ; Who keeps their power?

[blackman]

is this thread still concerned with the Thai army planning operation to clear protesters?

or has it morphed into something else?

please advise, i simply cannot be bothered reading back through 11 pages to see where it lost its way?

[bubba]

Isn't it a pity that the leaders of a proletariat movement are forced to sleep like this, rather than in a king-size bed with aircon in a four star hotel?

[OzMick]

Laws are rules that a Society gives to itself.

How does "Society" give the rules/laws to itself?

De we assume that "laws" are always good laws. Laws can be written and "imposed" on society by those who have the power to make them..and for the sole purpose of protecting the lawmakers.

Indeed! such as allowing you to sell a company without maintaining the 51% thai ownwership, and reducing the tax burden on yourself and your interests. Now who would try that?

[geriatrickid]

Does that mean that Thaksin didn't put in any sustainable policies to help the poor?

As soon as he stopped handing out money, the situation with the poor got worse?

No, it indicates that successful programs had less funding. However, subsequent to the coup, military spending increased. The proposed budget for this year has one of the largest increases since Thaksin was overthrown.