Rival Thai 'Yellows' Discuss Moves As 'Reds' Rally On

[ozzieman05]

"Innocent" protestors don't attack military with spears, grenades, petrol bombs and guns.

yeah, the guy with the top of his head blown off was so threatening waving that flag and footclapper, he deserved to die

No. He didn't deserve to die.

But, there is no evidence that the army shot him.

And he was in an area where the army were being attacked with grenades, bombs and firearms.

He wasn't just an "innocent" protestor.

who you think shot him? Santa Claus?

Well he was dressed in Red

Sorry retracted I mean I could not resist you left your self wide opon

[lannarebirth]

.

who you think shot him? Santa Claus?

Who stood to benefit from increased chaos, violence and any resultant deaths? Certainly not Abhisit nor the armed forces, who have been under increased pressure ever since. It was a cold and calculated move, much like we saw at Songkran in 2009.

Not only that, who rushed to steal these bodies from the morgue to prevent forensic evidence being collected and autopsies being conducted? It was clear almost from the first minute.

[pornsasi]

Yes he gave the green light to UP Hold THE Law

So what do you want a lawless Thailand where mob rule prevails

and when 5 Thai men turn on you because you are Farlang you will say this is okay as well

So "upholding the law" involves killing innocent protesters ? even now abhisit admits the army fired live into the crowd.

i sure hope abhisit stops "upholding the law"

"Innocent" protestors don't attack military with spears, grenades, petrol bombs and guns.

Read the report of Amnesty International on who shot who please .

And show me a video of one red shirt shooting at soldiers . I got video

of soldier shooting at protestors . And Abhisit lied that soldiers dont have

live ammo then lied again that they shot in the air only

You have no proof on the reds shooting at governement soldiers whatsoever .

http://blog.amnestyusa.org/asia/thailands-...transformation/

[rabo]

"Innocent" protestors don't attack military with spears, grenades, petrol bombs and guns.

yeah, the guy with the top of his head blown off was so threatening waving that flag and footclapper, he deserved to die

No. He didn't deserve to die.

But, there is no evidence that the army shot him.

And he was in an area where the army were being attacked with grenades, bombs and firearms.

He wasn't just an "innocent" protestor.

who you think shot him? Santa Claus?

You mean the guy that brings presents from the north?

If you really want to know who, which side, planned and conspired to start the killing Saturday night on April 10, for whatever their aim, please consider the following factual information, if you can.

Precisely before the initial armed attack, which caught both protesters and security forces off guard. seven 5 kilogram plastic explosive bombs were detonated at the bottom of 3 of the massive electrical pylons that feed the city from the north. If one of the pylons had come down the whole city of Bangkok would have fallen into darkness. One can only presume the killing would have gone on much longer and we would not have the videos that are available.

Whoever started the killing also blew up the pylons.

Any theory about what is transpiring in the streets of Bangkok that cannot adequately account for this piece of factual information must be wrong.

Merry April 10 from Santa?

Edited April 20, 2010 by rabo

[pornsasi]

You forget they only became the government by default after the red elected government was banned and MPs changed sides - hence the protests

The PTP (ex-PPP) were still the government after the PPP was banned. All they needed to do was elect a new PM.

But they lost the support of the smaller parties.

Maybe the PPP/PTP lost the support of the smaller parties because they throught they had the mandate to whitewash Thaksin's crimes. Maybe the smaller parties didn't think they had a mandate to do that. So they gave their support to the Democrats.

The Democrats have the mandate to govern the country, because a majority of MPs representing the people of Thailand support them.

MPs switching side happen in every country . Thats called cross the floor in british parlance . As a result a PM may loose the majority in parliament in the british system , if his majority is very tiny , that is legal , though i did not find example in the web outside Thailand. If an entire faction switch party that is also legal , though in general they will do that only during general election , again no reference on the web of such case happening in the midst of a legislature . Seems is unique to Thailand . But i welcome example if you have some . So yes Abhisit is legally PM

Now Abhisit while legally elected is illegitimate for two main reasons

A- Had there been no military coup in Sept 2006 against the legal PM Thaksin , there would have been election in October 2006 , which most likely Thaksin would have won in the form of a coalition or not . In that case his mandate would finish in Oct 2010 (4 years) . No Abhisit

B- The democrat party should not exist anymore . In April 2006 they boycotted elections and paid smaller parties to do the same . As a result after the coup in 2007 , during the military junta they and TRT were found guilty of corruption by EC and then by the office of the Attorney general . But somehow while TRT was disbanded by the supreme court , Dems were not . Clearly biased , judges influenced by the military junta . So again no Abhisit .

If Abhisit had held general elections and won the two points above no longer valid . He did not

Conclusion . Abhisit clearly owes his job to the army , not to the people . The reds definitely have a case

Edited April 20, 2010 by pornsasi

[AGareth2]

"crossing the floor" happened in Pakistan leading upto the last Indo Pakistani war and the formation of bangladesh

[pornsasi]

I thought that this thread was about the yellow shirts not about the red shirts .

Fine lets talk about the red shirts then . The red shirts are thai citizens , they have the right to demonstrate in their country , and the right do so until their demands for immediate general elections is accepted . The closure of few luxury shopping malls is not the point , there are enough of those all around Bangkok where the affluent shoppers can choose their latest Vuitton bag or Gucci watches . I do not agree with the violent rethoric of some red shirts leaders but they have agreed to surrender on May 15

Now taking a step back :

Does anyone remember the huge demonstrations by the yellows and their violent slogans during the Thaksin government , the ones after his reelection of 2005 in a POPULAR election , i was in BKK that was pretty disturbing traffic and everything else . Does anyone here remember that in spite of his comfortable coalition majority in the house , Thaksin decided in Feb 2006 because of the unrest to call for new elections scheduled for April 2006 .

Those April 2006 elections were boycotted by the dems who bribed other smaller parties to do likewise , Thaksin TRT counter bribed . It was clear sabotage by the dems of the democratic process one of too many as we see now also prooves that they did not give a dam_n about disturbing the public . As elections were boycotted Thaksin was unable to form a majority coalition and was appointed care taker PM by HM . New elections were scheduled in Oct 2006 but before that a military coup was staged by the army with the blessing of the dems who knew that they stand no chance at that Oct 06 then forthcoming election .So the myth of Thaksin just a care taker PM at the moment of the coup , is only true because the dems sabotaged the democratic process . Thaksin was perfectly legitimate and forcibly removed by the army , the source of much of what is happening today .

Then following the coup in 2007 under the self appointed military backed government of CNS then CDC both the TRT (Thaksin party ) and the Dems were convicted of bribery for their stunt as above described by the office of the Attorney general . TRT was disbanded , Dems were acquitted both cases by a military appoint court . Lately the PT has brought to light some disturbing elements on that court decision

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255211180001

Then in 2008 the PPP was disbanded using a new constitution established by the military the year before and its article 237 , a constitution that has no democratic validity whatsoever

Now looking at the dem "eclatant" corruption record no need to bring the TPI Polene case (Most likely a dems sponsored hoax anyway to drive the red shirts home ) , or other cases like the heath ministry bribery case , the rotten can fish case , and so on and so forth , the 2007 case is enough to prove that the dems are no friend of democracy and are corrupt.

What about the recent Abhisit ordered crackdown which caused the death of 23 peoples on 10 April 09 ? here is the report of Amnesty International .

http://blog.amnestyusa.org/asia/thailands-...transformation/

Funny nowhere I see mention of red shirts shooting at soldiers in that report . What I see instead is a strong suspicion of soldiers shooting at red shirts using live bullets .Videos by a french team were taken of soldiers shooting into the crowd with automatic fire , I can find the link for those who wants it .Also a report in the BBC indicate that a journalist found two red shirts shot by soldiers with live ammunition . Oh I know the soldiers shot but were they not shot by their renegate colleagues from nearby roof top ? Only one soldier was killed by a bamboo spear in what is certainly a case of self defence . Does anyone truly believe in middle aged and old rural folks , or even a few red security , shooting at a professional army ? What would they gain from it ? Their own massacre …

That comes on top of the Abhisit administration closing tens of internet sites , blocking red shirts TV and radio stations , while pure lies on ASTV are allowed to continue . It seems that the views of Mr Abhisit is that lies and fabrications are ok as long as they are not anti-government , his government only that is . Even K Bahnarn, and the CEO of Thai com told Mr Abhisit not to close the red TV channel , but Mr Abhisit must have had his pride hurted somewhat . Typical elitist reaction …

In short the current situation is caused by the refusal of the elite to accept electoral defeat but it can go only for so long . One can't repress democracy forever unless one is willing to spill blood endlessly .

Mr Abhisit has proven that he wont hesitate to use M16's with live bullets and censorship of the medias to maintain his grip on power . Worse then Thaksin it would seem

I just hope that Mr Abhisit , will FINALLY see the light , stop clinging to power and , like Thaksin did , in Feb2006 , call for speedy general elections to clean up the political mess and avoid further loss of life .

And of course refrain from use of force . I really am not for Thaksin , Abhisit, Julius Caesar or Jimmy Hendrix , i am for free general election

But then … I had a dream

Edit : comma added

Agree!!!! It is every Thai's right to elect an ***hole into power! Goodness knows we westerners have done it enough times!

I think the war on terror may have corrupted a few farang brains! So many have crossed over to the dark side.

Yes they can elect whomever they want . Not for us to say

[pornsasi]

Then in 2008 the PPP was disbanded using a new constitution established by the military the year before and its article 237 , a constitution that has no democratic validity whatsoever

Seems you forget to mention the 2007 Referendum that brought forth this Constitution.

What about the recent Abhisit ordered crackdown which caused the death of 23 peoples on 10 April 09 ? here is the report of Amnesty International .

http://blog.amnestyusa.org/asia/thailands-...transformation/

Funny nowhere I see mention of red shirts shooting at soldiers in that report . What I see instead is a strong suspicion of soldiers shooting at red shirts using live bullets .Videos by a french team were taken of soldiers shooting into the crowd with automatic fire , I

In short the current situation is caused by the refusal of the elite to accept electoral defeat but it can go only for so long . One can't repress democracy forever unless one is willing to spill blood endlessly .

Mr Abhisit has proven that he wont hesitate to use M16's with live bullets and censorship of the medias to maintain his grip on power . Worse then Thaksin it would seem

Edit : comma added

Tak BAi, War on Drugs? Thaksin is responsible for crimes against humanity on a much larger scale than what you accuse Abhisit of.

PLease get your facts right and stop publishing blatant lies.

I dont agree with you . the 2007 referendum was imposed on the people , NO campainer were jailed and it was under martial law .

Yes you are correct my sentence worse then Thaksin was improper , due to incomplete information. Tai Bak and war on drugs were big stains on Thaksin for which he should stand trial .

However not an excuse for Abhisit

[pornsasi]

"crossing the floor" happened in Pakistan leading upto the last Indo Pakistani war and the formation of bangladesh

Hey thanks . Will check detail on that

[lannarebirth]

yeah, the guy with the top of his head blown off was so threatening waving that flag and footclapper, he deserved to die

No. He didn't deserve to die.

But, there is no evidence that the army shot him.

And he was in an area where the army were being attacked with grenades, bombs and firearms.

He wasn't just an "innocent" protestor.

who you think shot him? Santa Claus?

You mean the guy that brings presents from the north?

If you really want to know who, which side, planned and conspired to start the killing Saturday night on April 10, for whatever their aim, please consider the following factual information, if you can.

Precisely before the initial armed attack, which caught both protesters and security forces off guard. seven 5 kilogram plastic explosive bombs were detonated at the bottom of 3 of the massive electrical pylons that feed the city from the north. If one of the pylons had come down the whole city of Bangkok would have fallen into darkness. One can only presume the killing would have gone on much longer and we would not have the videos that are available.

Whoever started the killing also blew up the pylons.

Any theory about what is transpiring in the streets of Bangkok that cannot adequately account for this piece of factual information must be wrong.

Merry April 10 from Santa?

I guess if it were the Army's aim to darken the city and instigate violent attacks, they would have headed down to the power company and flipped a few switches. I think it's safe to say the Army doesn't need to destroy infrastructure in a manner that seeks to create generalized terror in order to accomplish their aims.

[pedro01]

Lest we forget

On Monday, Thaksin's brother Payap Shinawatra floated an idea that he could be a go-between to arrange the negotiations between the government and Thaksin in order to end the street protests by the red shirts.

Payap said the political predicament would dissipate if the government agrees not to put Thaksin in jail if he returns from his exile.

In his reaction, Korbsak said Thaksin's problems stemmed from the judicial decisions and that the government had no mandate to intervene in the judiciary.

[lannarebirth]

Lest we forget

On Monday, Thaksin's brother Payap Shinawatra floated an idea that he could be a go-between to arrange the negotiations between the government and Thaksin in order to end the street protests by the red shirts.

Payap said the political predicament would dissipate if the government agrees not to put Thaksin in jail if he returns from his exile.

In his reaction, Korbsak said Thaksin's problems stemmed from the judicial decisions and that the government had no mandate to intervene in the judiciary.

Well, I never! What a nerve attaching himself to the peoples struggle for democracy. You'd think he was funding it, and this was all about him!

[Skywalker69]

Now I am trying to get this correct in my head

The Red shirts want Democracy

Democracy is the will of the majority of the people

Am I right so Far ??????

Okay the Red shirts took over the streets of Bangkok saying they represent the people of Thailand

100,000 people turned yp for the party

For a month they had the majority of people demonstrating

Then out came the Pinks

Then out came the Greys and the Whites

Now we have the yellows

all saying No to the red shirts

Sounds a little like Parliment doesn't it, a coalition gathering together with an opinion opposite of what the reds want

Now if the Reds shirts really believe in Democracy, they should say well it looks like we are not all the people of Thailand and there seems to be others that think different.

Now as they believe in Democracy they should all wait a reasonable time 6-9 months agreed by the sitting parliment and let democracy (the people) decide

But NO

what I am hearing is

You must do what we want as we are more powerful and if we do not get what we want we will destroy all we can

Even with all these facts, there are still many TV members saying they only want Democracy

If Farang can not understand what Democracy is then what chance have Thai's

If I walk into the middle of a busy rd and get hit by a bus, then am I not at fault

If the red shirts try to take the law into their own hands and bra that the authorities can not touch them, they are above the law, and a few die in the upholding of the law

Again is it not in the end their own fault

The Law right or wrong is the law

If you do not like it change it the legal way

There where many and will be more Thais die before the end of this problem

But the law must be inforced or we will just end up with a lawless Thailand, and we will see this happen time and time again

It must stop now

A precedence set now for a future Thailand

The Red shits always complain about double standards

so lets set the standards now

The law of the land must be obeyed, and if not the price to be paid

The past and what people have done is gone

Only the future of Thailand matters now

Post of the day! Thanks.

[Crash999]

I guess if it were the Army's aim to darken the city and instigate violent attacks, they would have headed down to the power company and flipped a few switches. I think it's safe to say the Army doesn't need to destroy infrastructure in a manner that seeks to create generalized terror in order to accomplish their aims.

Does anyone have any articles (in English or Thai) talking about those electrical pylons? For all we know a truck could have driven into that pylon in the photo a week before the incident.

It's important to consider what would have happened had the violence escalated and if hundreds or thousands of red shirts had been killed. Somehow I don't think they would have all packed up and gone home and the international press would have said, "great job, Abhisit!"

The fact that the troops started retreating immediately after the first shots rang out betrays their orders. They didn't hold their ground or advance, or bring in tanks- they retreated and shot into the air.

Abhisit has to walk a fine line. He can't sit back and do nothing as he'll be perceived as having a lack of control and leadership, but he also can't use violence as he will lose credibility and legitimacy. Likewise the red shirts can't be openly violent as it will be counter to their claim to be a force for democracy. Their storming of the government house and 'kidnapping' came dangerously close to crossing the line.

[ozzieman05]

I would like to ask some one who can translate what the red leader on stage into English

at least this wasy we can make and informed decision

[rabo]

I guess if it were the Army's aim to darken the city and instigate violent attacks, they would have headed down to the power company and flipped a few switches. I think it's safe to say the Army doesn't need to destroy infrastructure in a manner that seeks to create generalized terror in order to accomplish their aims.

Does anyone have any articles (in English or Thai) talking about those electrical pylons? For all we know a truck could have driven into that pylon in the photo a week before the incident.

It's important to consider what would have happened had the violence escalated and if hundreds or thousands of red shirts had been killed. Somehow I don't think they would have all packed up and gone home and the international press would have said, "great job, Abhisit!"

The fact that the troops started retreating immediately after the first shots rang out betrays their orders. They didn't hold their ground or advance, or bring in tanks- they retreated and shot into the air.

Abhisit has to walk a fine line. He can't sit back and do nothing as he'll be perceived as having a lack of control and leadership, but he also can't use violence as he will lose credibility and legitimacy. Likewise the red shirts can't be openly violent as it will be counter to their claim to be a force for democracy. Their storming of the government house and 'kidnapping' came dangerously close to crossing the line.

It was reported by several news outlets here and some abroad but I can't reference the nation of bangkok post. There were two reports, the first on April 12 when the two damaged pylons were found, then more recently when a third pylon was found. There were reports of explosions being heard Saturday night April 10. There were 7 bombs placed on the pylons but 3 failed to detonate. Each was 5kg of C4 explosives triggered by alarm clock mechanisms.

Google something like "Thailand electricity pylons bomb" or power, C4 etc. You will get a lot of hits.

Here's one I found interesting if you want to see what C4 does to pylons, it's a news report from ASTV with a lot of video.

http://thailand.media140.org/bangkok/?p=1187

http://thailand.media140.org/bangkok/?p=1144

Here is something I can reference.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Thailand+:+C...ya.-a0224069474

Check the video, go buy some candles, and keep it quiet, next time they will know to use more than 5kg

And yes, Abhisit is walking a tight rope like few leaders have ever seen, hat off to him.

Edited April 20, 2010 by rabo

[cheguevara]

"Innocent" protestors don't attack military with spears, grenades, petrol bombs and guns.

yeah, the guy with the top of his head blown off was so threatening waving that flag and footclapper, he deserved to die

No. He didn't deserve to die.

But, there is no evidence that the army shot him.

And he was in an area where the army were being attacked with grenades, bombs and firearms.

He wasn't just an "innocent" protestor.

who you think shot him? Santa Claus?

That's enough evidence for me right there. Next time that Santa Claus guy is coming down the chimney ...dressed all in red ...on December 25th, he's not getting any cookies!

[Skywalker69]

Lest we forget

On Monday, Thaksin's brother Payap Shinawatra floated an idea that he could be a go-between to arrange the negotiations between the government and Thaksin in order to end the street protests by the red shirts.

Payap said the political predicament would dissipate if the government agrees not to put Thaksin in jail if he returns from his exile.

In his reaction, Korbsak said Thaksin's problems stemmed from the judicial decisions and that the government had no mandate to intervene in the judiciary.

That says it all, dosent it?

[chadintheusa]

"Innocent" protestors don't attack military with spears, grenades, petrol bombs and guns.

yeah, the guy with the top of his head blown off was so threatening waving that flag and footclapper, he deserved to die

No. He didn't deserve to die.

But, there is no evidence that the army shot him.

And he was in an area where the army were being attacked with grenades, bombs and firearms.

He wasn't just an "innocent" protestor.

who you think shot him? Santa Claus?

Well Santa wears red, so maybe you're getting closer. Any truly innocent person would have left the area by nightfall. Those in the area wanted a fight and got it. Those protesters had been sparring with the army all afternoon, so don't go claiming they were innocent or non violent.

[hammered]

Lest we forget

On Monday, Thaksin's brother Payap Shinawatra floated an idea that he could be a go-between to arrange the negotiations between the government and Thaksin in order to end the street protests by the red shirts.

Payap said the political predicament would dissipate if the government agrees not to put Thaksin in jail if he returns from his exile.

In his reaction, Korbsak said Thaksin's problems stemmed from the judicial decisions and that the government had no mandate to intervene in the judiciary.

That says it all, dosent it?

It is not what team red want you hear. It isnt totally true but only a red operative or soemone who didnt have any understanding of the situation would cliam it wasnt at least partially correct. Actually if you talk to any reds they wilkl admnit it is about Thaksin to some extent or anohter.

[cheguevara]

I bet all those "red shirts are bad" preaching foreigners will have a really hard time explaining their kids next Christmas as to why Santa Claus is wearing red.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I bet all those "red shirts are bad" preaching foreigners will have a really hard time explaining their kids next Christmas as to why Santa Claus is wearing red.

dam_n... wish I'd chosen Tweety Pie (he's yellow right?)