Anyone Trying Aquaponics?

[necronx99]

Irrigator, Can you confirm your figures as posted, I am having a problem with the 25 kg of mature fish per sq met.That is 80,000 Pla Nin to the Rai.

The industry norm is about 700gram per sq met in grow out ponds.I stretch the envelope a bit by growing 1.5 kg per sq met and have to do frequent part water changes plus run a 3hp aerator system at least 12 hours a day to keep mortality down and get reasonable growth rates.

If you can grow 25kg of Pla Nin per sq metre (50 x 500 gram) successfully then you have single handed solved the worlds food problems.and make me a rich man as it would increase my output to 13,000,000 baht minimum per annum. Thats right 13 million baht.

In his post he says cu M not sq M. In actual fact, according to Aussie researchers figures of up to 400 Tilapia (Average size 570g 120 days from fingerlings fed on floating soya based food) per CU Metre are not uncommon if the conditions are right. One thing he has got wrong is the size/volume of the grow-bed. The whole point of Aquaponics is that you balance the flow of water so that the suspended solids and toxins are converted into nutrient rich plant food. The grow-beds must be double the volume of the fish tanks ie a 4 metre x 1metre deep tank is 12.7 cu M of water therefore the raised growbeds need to be 2 x 20 metres x 2metres wide x 300mm deep. You pump the dirty water using a submersible 200 litre per min pump on to the beds which act as o bio-filter, the clean water then feeds by gravity back into the fish.Lettuce and coriander will grow in 30 t0 40 days. The more plants you get in, the better the system will run.

You mention about feeding the world. Over the last few years the United Nations have been setting units in Africa to educate and promote this system.

OZZY With all your experience you should give it a go. It's never too late for an old dog to learn new tricks. A plot of 40m x 40m and you could harvest 2000kilo per month + a truck load of lettuce/coriander/spring onions. If you PM me you can have the plans for free.

Bob ( another old dog @63+)

Bob ,I purposely refer to sq met as this is the usual reference in Tilapia farming, this is because water depth in ponds or cages rarely is deeper than 1 metre and surface area is the important area in oxygen replenishment.

If I have questions regarding irrigators 25 kg of fish per sq (cub) metre I most certainly have bigger questions of the claims of 228 kg per sq (cub)metre.

I have read some of these claims (but as yet uncorroborated in real life) and found most of them made by somebody trying to sell their equipment or system.

It does not take a Rhodes Scholar to realise that in a world with a shortage of fish protein, if one were indeed able to grow 228 kg of Tilapia in a cubic metre of water in 4 months all other forms of fish farming would become redundant and we would all be very wealthy.

the extension of those figures is 684kg per cub metre or 55k baht per cub metre per annum. or 8.8 million baht per rai per annum.

depending on the efficiency of the system 10 to 25 kilo per cu meter is dooable but obviously the more you stock the more susceptible the system becomes to errors.

You see this type of stocking in nature in fish that travel in schools or baitballs but you need to be supplying the perfect environment for the fish 24/7

[David48]

In his post he says cu M not sq M.

Bob ,I purposely refer to sq met as this is the usual reference in Tilapia farming ...

I cut the quotes for brevity and for those interested, they are on full display above.

I support ozzydom on this.

Everything that I have read refers to square metreage, thus 'surface area' rather then ‘cubic area’ gives a more practical reading of what is achievable in the real world.

Edited June 14, 2012 by David48

[grimleybob]

In his post he says cu M not sq M.

Bob ,I purposely refer to sq met as this is the usual reference in Tilapia farming ...

I cut the quotes for brevity and for those interested, they are on full display above.

I support ozzydom on this.

Everything that I have read refers to square metreage, thus 'surface area' rather then ‘cubic area’ gives a more practical reading of what is achievable in the real world.

The Pro's

The reason that the system can sustain such a high density is because the pumps recirculate the total tank contents ( 12.7 cu M) in 63 minutes 24 hours a days. The return feed is gravity fed back to the tanks with a 300mm drop.

The figures I quote are fact not fiction and have been achieved in many different pats of the world.

This link is just one small study. It was done by a team of experts trying to promote soya food . If you ignore that fact the figures still stand up.

Although I have purchased some of the materials I need to build my progect when I was over in Feb, I have been delayed back in the UK . I will start with 4 x 4m tanks and 8 20m growbeds.

Because this is a new system, and to allow for teething probs I will start with 2000 fingerligs in the 1st tank and see how it goes. If all is well I will introduce 3000 to tank 2 one month later and so on.

Don't forget that the tank system allows you to be selective about the fish you harvest. by taking out the faster growing larger fish first you allow the other smaller fish to flourish and create more space

http://www.soyaqua.org/sites/default/files/reports/03redtilapiac9ultshainan.pdf

The Cons

Because of the high density, the pumps must work 24/7 so therefore an automatic generator system will have to be installed, and it wont be cheap, but it's essential.

The water quality has to be tested twice a day and with local labour mmmmmmmmmm we'll see.

It's high maintenance, risky but get it right and it could be very rewarding. It's more fun than tapping rubber.

Growing the veg ----- thats another story I wish you all well Bob

[jamescollister]

Just had a read through this thread and very impressed, some of you guys are really very smart. Jim

[hopdafru]

To answer hopdafru,

1. There is no problem for the water to travel 7m provided you have run it thru a clarifier first.

2. I have my grow bed at the same level as the bottom of the FT (approx) but it is not essential. As long as you can get gravity flow from the clarifier to the GB then it is OK.

3. For grow beds, work with what is best for you. You can grow mutiple crops in a given bed...........I sized my bed based on the maximum potential output from the FT.

4. I started by just throwing in some tomato seeds and some coriander seeds .They do not need a lot of nutrients to get going and as the FT matures then so does the crop. You do have to allow a little time for the GB to nitrificate, which is important but after that go for it.

That all said.....I am based just outside Mahasarakam and would welcome any visitors. We do have an a/c guest room with private bathroom........ as long as you drink lots of beer...........

Cheers.....

Thanks again Irrigator, nice simple setup you seem to have back in Mahasarakam!

1. ok for the 7m as to the clarifier I'm a bit confused as the GB do all the filtering don't they? (filtering is essential for commercial systems like UVI or NFT) One advantage I see in using a clarifier is having more fish (or less GB) - perhaps using bamboo would get rid of some of the poo... Iooked online for some DIY clarifiers but it seems like a hassle... or could I just filter once in a while if the water isn't clear?

2, I'll have about 50-70cm height from FT to GB,not sure how to fit a clarifier but I'll keep the option in mind when I do the piping. can there be some filtering at the slump level or return to the FT?

3.I'll probably use IBT or plastic barrels for GB, I just found an easier DIY siphon so I don't mind so much about how many, but I am wondering about the size of the slump. If I have 1400l in the FT, I understand I should have about 2800l of GB (1/3 water 2/3 gravel) which would mean a 1000l slump according to another forum.

Also re. slump, CHOPS2 (a new popular system) pumps the water from the slump to each GB AND the FT at the same time. It seems your design pumps directly to the FT. would you change that if you just had to press a button to have it done? (the sequential pump I mentioned earlier has some nice features)

I'll look into more info about how to size my system, either based on FT or GB output....

I hope to get the system cycling in July with just a few plants and goldfish while away for 3 weeks, we'll see how it goes,it's noteven built yet!

thanks for sharing, cheers!

[irrigator]

To answer hopdafru,

1. There is no problem for the water to travel 7m provided you have run it thru a clarifier first.

2. I have my grow bed at the same level as the bottom of the FT (approx) but it is not essential. As long as you can get gravity flow from the clarifier to the GB then it is OK.

3. For grow beds, work with what is best for you. You can grow mutiple crops in a given bed...........I sized my bed based on the maximum potential output from the FT.

4. I started by just throwing in some tomato seeds and some coriander seeds .They do not need a lot of nutrients to get going and as the FT matures then so does the crop. You do have to allow a little time for the GB to nitrificate, which is important but after that go for it.

That all said.....I am based just outside Mahasarakam and would welcome any visitors. We do have an a/c guest room with private bathroom........ as long as you drink lots of beer...........

Cheers.....

Thanks again Irrigator, nice simple setup you seem to have back in Mahasarakam!

1. ok for the 7m as to the clarifier I'm a bit confused as the GB do all the filtering don't they? (filtering is essential for commercial systems like UVI or NFT) One advantage I see in using a clarifier is having more fish (or less GB) - perhaps using bamboo would get rid of some of the poo... Iooked online for some DIY clarifiers but it seems like a hassle... or could I just filter once in a while if the water isn't clear?

2, I'll have about 50-70cm height from FT to GB,not sure how to fit a clarifier but I'll keep the option in mind when I do the piping. can there be some filtering at the slump level or return to the FT?

3.I'll probably use IBT or plastic barrels for GB, I just found an easier DIY siphon so I don't mind so much about how many, but I am wondering about the size of the slump. If I have 1400l in the FT, I understand I should have about 2800l of GB (1/3 water 2/3 gravel) which would mean a 1000l slump according to another forum.

Also re. slump, CHOPS2 (a new popular system) pumps the water from the slump to each GB AND the FT at the same time. It seems your design pumps directly to the FT. would you change that if you just had to press a button to have it done? (the sequential pump I mentioned earlier has some nice features)

I'll look into more info about how to size my system, either based on FT or GB output....

I hope to get the system cycling in July with just a few plants and goldfish while away for 3 weeks, we'll see how it goes,it's noteven built yet!

thanks for sharing, cheers!

If your easier siphon is a piece of hose pipe over the edge beware !! The theory is they can work but the flow rates into a large bed means the water rises in the grow bed very slowly. If not sized perfectly for your flow rate then there is a good chance that the siphon simply runs at the same discharge as the incoming flow rate. That is why I use a BELL on top of my siphon in order for a much larger amount of water to enter the siphon and begin the siphon action as it accumalates at the restriction in the smaller pipe below.

There are differing schools of thought on the solids removal. If you let the solids get throught to the grow bed they could / will clog the grow bed very quickly unless you add worms as mineralization is a slow process and will not keep up with the rate of flow into the grow bed. Cleaning the gravel if you had solids build up would be a nightmare.

I personally prefer the UVI method by removing the solids before they get anywhere near the grow bed and then another foam filter just before the grow bed to catch anything that gets past the clarifier. The gravel does act as a filter, and a pretty good one at that which is why I really try to avoid getting solid waste into it. The water coming out of the grow bed to the recirculating tank is very clean (solids wise) so no need for addl filtering.

We clean the solids out of the clarifier once a day by simply opening a valve on the side of it and that water can be sent wherever you want it for growing plants in normal soil. Every few days we do stop the system so that we can clean the pipes out and give the clarifier a bit of a scrub with a long handled brush, but this is infinitely easier than having to clean the gravel. One thing, my clarifier is not exactly the same as the UVI one.......it does have conical bottom section and our cleaning valve is connected to bottom of the cone. Above that it is pretty much a swirl filter (google it if you don't know what this is).

Why would you want to send water from the recirc tank back to grow bed ? The water in the recirc tank should have been diluted of nutrients when it passed thru the grow bed and you need it to go back to the FT to pick up new nutes. Also you really need to make sure as much water as possible is being recirculted thru the FT. By returning the water to the FT thru a spray bar you are helping significantly with creating DO which is very difficult to maintain at the temperatures we get here in Thailand.

Regards

[necronx99]

Here's an interesting read for anyone new to bell syphons as they apply to aquaponics.

Seems to have done his homework and claims to have some original input to improve operation.

http://affnan-aquaponics.blogspot.com/2010/02/affnans-valve-detailed-explanations-of_9459.html

[hopdafru]

<p><p>Hi Irrigator,was away for a couple of weeks and now back...on the thread! comments/questions below:

</p>

</p></p>If your easier siphon is a piece of hose pipe over the edge beware !! The theory is they can work but the flow rates into a large bed means the water rises in the grow bed very slowly. If not sized perfectly for your flow rate then there is a good chance that the siphon simply runs at the same discharge as the incoming flow rate. That is why I use a BELL on top of my siphon in order for a much larger amount of water to enter the siphon and begin the siphon action as it accumalates at the restriction in the smaller pipe below.

<p></p></p>I'll be using a siphon with a bell but haven't yet figured out the sizing in regards to the GB, I guess I'll have to play around a bit and figure out the right flow for it to work 24/7. Using chops2 the fish will be safe!I just found a wood boat (the kind you see on the mekong) almost flat bottom and plan to use it as a grow bed, 4m+ long and about 40cm deep, it already has a hole in it and is about 50 years old so no worries for the wood, as long as it's level I hope it will do fine and not create anaerobic conditions... we'll see... it'll look good in the yard that's for sure.<p></p></p>There are differing schools of thought on the solids removal. If you let the solids get throught to the grow bed they could / will clog the grow bed very quickly unless you add worms as mineralization is a slow process and will not keep up with the rate of flow into the grow bed. Cleaning the gravel if you had solids build up would be a nightmare.

I don't like like nightmares so you're point strikes a cord and looks like I'll be adding some sort of filter (swirl or vertical filters) outside the FT.any recommendations keeping in mind the total height between the top of the FT and the floor is about 90cm and I have to fit filter + GB + sump tank! ?

<p>I personally prefer the UVI method by removing the solids before they get anywhere near the grow bed and then another foam filter just before the grow bed to catch anything that gets past the clarifier. The gravel does act as a filter, and a pretty good one at that which is why I really try to avoid getting solid waste into it. The water coming out of the grow bed to the recirculating tank is very clean (solids wise) so no need for addl filtering.

</p></p>UVI sounds best,I agree. I don't really get the complete idea of the clarifier yet (nor where to put it)! but I do plan to add lettuce on floating rafts at some point. I have 2 FT 1500 + 700 litres and can add more in the future. I'm not sure thought how to combine GB and rafts but I know it's been done before.

<p>We clean the solids out of the clarifier once a day by simply opening a valve on the side of it and that water can be sent wherever you want it for growing plants in normal soil. Every few days we do stop the system so that we can clean the pipes out and give the clarifier a bit of a scrub with a long handled brush, but this is infinitely easier than having to clean the gravel. One thing, my clarifier is not exactly the same as the UVI one.......it does have conical bottom section and our cleaning valve is connected to bottom of the cone. Above that it is pretty much a swirl filter (google it if you don't know what this is).

</p></p>Did you purchase the conical bottom or make it yourself? Is the clarifier after the filter or before?

Why would you want to send water from the recirc tank back to grow bed ? The water in the recirc tank should have been diluted of nutrients when it passed thru the grow bed and you need it to go back to the FT to pick up new nutes. Also you really need to make sure as much water as possible is being recirculted thru the FT. By returning the water to the FT thru a spray bar you are helping significantly with creating DO which is very difficult to maintain at the temperatures we get here in Thailand.

Got it,thanks a lot for the info!Sokh DeeRegards

</p> Edited July 2, 2012 by hopdafru

[hopdafru]

sorry I'm having difficulties editing my post for readability... should be understandable though!

[emiubon]

hi, want to experiment with some aquaponic setting, what do you think , if for the grower beds I use pick up trucks liners? there are plenty used around, second hand in good conditions, was thinking build a structure or just positioned on the ground, 2 liners facing the open side up and glued togheter.

Second hand where I live are between 500 baht to 100 baht.

[David48]

Others may have some idea what a 'trucks liner' is ... but I don't.

Maybe a photo or two says a 1,000 words.

[grimleybob]

Others may have some idea what a 'trucks liner' is ... but I don't.

Maybe a photo or two says a 1,000 words.

David

It's a liner, usually made with rigid plastic, that lines the bed of a pickup truck

Bob

[emiubon]

Others may have some idea what a 'trucks liner' is ... but I don't.

Maybe a photo or two says a 1,000 words.

David

It's a liner, usually made with rigid plastic, that lines the bed of a pickup truck

Bob

yes, sorry for being not too precise, but yes is the rigid plastic that is used to protect the back of pick ups, there are many for sale all around thailand second hand,

using 1 finding a way to close the side where there is the opening for the door, or using 2 facing each other, should work out good.

My only worry is leaching of some chemi, but they should be made in HDPE, altough dont think food grade, probabily are not very rigid too, when adding the gravel, will loose form and swell, but making a structure like the one that surround that white square containers, should work.

Edited March 20, 2013 by emiubon

[cdmtdm]

join the two together and then lay a sheet of plastic in before your media , should work out ok .... if you use a thick plastic it will take out the ridges on the bottom of the tray , make yourself an auto siphon and away you go ... are they quite rigid out of the pickup tray ? or will u need to support the sides externally? goodluck

[Pacificperson]

Others may have some idea what a 'trucks liner' is ... but I don't.

Maybe a photo or two says a 1,000 words.

David

It's a liner, usually made with rigid plastic, that lines the bed of a pickup truck

Bob

yes, sorry for being not too precise, but yes is the rigid plastic that is used to protect the back of pick ups, there are many for sale all around thailand second hand,

using 1 finding a way to close the side where there is the opening for the door, or using 2 facing each other, should work out good.

My only worry is leaching of some chemi, but they should be made in HDPE, altough dont think food grade, probabily are not very rigid too, when adding the gravel, will loose form and swell, but making a structure like the one that surround that white square containers, should work.

If you know of a glue that works on HDPE, please let me know. I think that the only way to joint two pieces of HDPE is to heat weld them

[sjefrie]

If you know of a glue that works on HDPE, please let me know. I think that the only way to joint two pieces of HDPE is to heat weld them

The best way to joint HDPE is by hot welding no doubt about it

But 3M have a polyethylene adhesive that can be used for HDPE

DP-8005 and DP-8010

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Marine/Home/Products/Catalog/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECIE20S4K7000000_nid=LS56XTRKJXbeQH8HT14PGTgl

[emiubon]

dont know exactly how to join them, but I saw once a guy that welded two hdpe thanks, but not remember what did he use, guess will need to try various systems.

[Pacificperson]

We used HDPE sheets and folded their corners around the outside. Then everything was held in place with rebar driven into the ground every meter or so. The edges were capped with ABS pipe with a cut on one side to form a "C" in cross-section. This was then used to hold the edge of the sheet to the rebar and it also served as a cap over the rebar in case someone fell on it.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Pacificperson

[emiubon]

We used HDPE sheets and folded their corners around the outside. Then everything was held in place with rebar driven into the ground every meter or so. The edges were capped with ABS pipe with a cut on one side to form a "C" in cross-section. This was then used to hold the edge of the sheet to the rebar and it also served as a cap over the rebar in case someone fell on it.

wow good set up you got there, do you remember some specs of that HDPE, did you buy rolls, of it?

Thanks

[Pacificperson]

We used HDPE sheets and folded their corners around the outside. Then everything was held in place with rebar driven into the ground every meter or so. The edges were capped with ABS pipe with a cut on one side to form a "C" in cross-section. This was then used to hold the edge of the sheet to the rebar and it also served as a cap over the rebar in case someone fell on it.

wow good set up you got there, do you remember some specs of that HDPE, did you buy rolls, of it?

Thanks

We ordered it out of Kaohsiung, Taiwan. A whole roll was something like 7x100 meters. They had it cut into three, 2.3 x100 meter rolls for us. It was not cheap, but much cheaper than concrete. I don't remeber the exact cost. I think that it was roughly 300 Baht/sq. meter. We ordered it pretty thick so that the side walls would not slump. It made folding the corners a little tuff. It has stood up well for the last nine years.

[emiubon]

thanks a lot, will look on alibaba to see if i can get in contact with some vendor, You solution look good, for raft growing right? or u use also with aggregate filled beds.

Anyway other systems I looked at, like yours, had some kind of frame, a lot more costly then the one u are using, so I guess, your is working good.

May I ask, if during the years was something that you think you could have done differently? I mean kind of material, colour? size of the beds?

Anyway, you keep the fish, on the long bed on the right of the pic? or they have another tank that is not shown in the pics?

By the way I am often around in Isaan, if you are around here, we may have a chat, one day...

Thanks

[Pacificperson]

The fish are in the fiberglass tanks at the very back of the photo. The raceway that you are asking about is primarily a slump from which the water is pumped back to the fish tanks. Sometimes they use it to grow water spinich.

I haven't been very active with this system for several years, but I still help out occasionaly with some of the maintenance issues. The biggest problem with the raceways has been mucking them out and clearing them of tilapia fry if the they get out of the tanks. They do not have drains. The crew has found that pumping them mostly dry and then pulling the rebar at one end and laying it flat makes the task easier.

As far as visiting this site, you would need to fly about 6-7 hours east of Bangkok. It is in the middle of the Pacific.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Pacificperson