Land/hose In Child's Name Plus Usufunct

[scorecard]

I'm thinking of changing the chanut on a land and house property, so that the owner is my Thai grandchild (now 5 year sold). I've worked through the downside and the upside of this action, according to our specific family situation and please, I don't need lots of pessimistic replies.

I've established clearly that it is within the appropriate Thai law to puts a Thai child's name on a chanut and it is within the appropriate Thai law to also record a usufunct on the same chanut in a foreign name.

But my advice also indictated that some OICs of land title offices will object to this being done (not their business, they should follow the law, but the reality is that they can get away with this and there's no point in demaning anything).

So, can I please ask Pattaya members; at the Pattaya land office:

Step 1. Have you ever recorded a Thai child's name on a chanut? If yes would you please share any worthwhile details, things to be careful of, some idea of the needed documentation, costs (incl 'extra' costs), etc.

Step 2. If you have done step 1., above, have you also recorded a usufunct? Again, If yes, would you please share some details, documentation, costs etc etc.

Appreciate all replies, and maybe this could be worthwhile information for lots of members.

Thanks.

[ThaiAdvocate]

Your obtaining to the prior approval for ususfruct from court is requred. (Refer to Council of State's Opinion No. 128/2533 and Supreme Court Judgement No. 1516/2525.)

[chiangmaibruce]

Your obtaining to the prior approval for ususfruct from court is requred. (Refer to Council of State's Opinion No. 128/2533 and Supreme Court Judgement No. 1516/2525.)

Hi, ThaiAdvocate. Do you know if these references are available online anywhere? preferably in English - but Thai is OK. Thanks

[ThaiAdvocate]

Unfortunately, the opinion is available in Thai, however our legal system is civil law not common law, so i better to refer to section 1574 (9) of CCC, see below pls,

Section 1574 A person exercising parental power (Father and/or mother) is/are incapable to do any of the following act concerning to property belong to the minor unless Court's permission is granted:

..........

(3) Establishing Usufruct.

..........

(9) Accepting a gift subject to condition or charge...

In your circumstance if you transfer the land to the child before registering usufruct 1574 (3) will apply, but if revert and start with usufruct then gift ownership of land to the child will be granted together with charge that mean your intended usufruct.

Sorry for the short law but the post was made direct link between land and fact in concerned.

ThaiAdvocate

[ThaiAdvocate]

Sorry for typing error, see again here below:

Unfortunately, the opinion is available in Thai, however our legal system is civil law not common law, so i better to refer to section 1574 (9) of CCC, see below pls,

Section 1574 A person exercising parental power (Father and/or mother) is/are incapable to do any of the following act concerning to property belong to the minor unless Court's permission is granted:

..........

(3) Establishing Usufruct.

..........

(9) Accepting a gift subject to condition or charge...

In your circumstance if you transfer the land to the child before registering usufruct 1574 (3) will apply, but if revert and start with usufruct then gift ownership of land to the child will be granted together with charge that mean your intended usufruct under 1574 (9)

Sorry for the short law but the post was made for direct link between law and fact in concerned.

ThaiAdvocate

[ThaiAdvocate]

Just try this link for the referred opion of the councel:

http://web.krisdika.go.th/data/comment/com...2_0128_2533.pdf

[donx]

Sorry for typing error, see again here below:

Unfortunately, the opinion is available in Thai, however our legal system is civil law not common law, so i better to refer to section 1574 (9) of CCC, see below pls,

Section 1574 A person exercising parental power (Father and/or mother) is/are incapable to do any of the following act concerning to property belong to the minor unless Court's permission is granted:

..........

(3) Establishing Usufruct.

..........

(9) Accepting a gift subject to condition or charge...

In your circumstance if you transfer the land to the child before registering usufruct 1574 (3) will apply, but if revert and start with usufruct then gift ownership of land to the child will be granted together with charge that mean your intended usufruct under 1574 (9)

Sorry for the short law but the post was made for direct link between law and fact in concerned.

ThaiAdvocate

Let me see if I understand what you are saying.

I think you are saying that land owned by a child can't have a usufruct registered. If the land is transferred to the child before the usufruct is registered, then 1574 (3) will apply and prevent the usufruct from being registered. If the usufruct is registered before the land is transferred to the child, then 1574 (9) will apply and prevent the land from being transferred to the child.

If the OP registers a usufruct, the child can't be given the land. If the land is given to the child, then a usufruct can't be registered on that land.

Assuming I understand correctly, this all makes perfect sense to me.

[ThaiAdvocate]

A: If transfer land ownership to the child before registration of usufruct (may be on same date with together application), the usufruct cannot be registered until you get court's permission because your wife cannot exercise the parental power and act on behalf of the child for this act according to section 1574 (3)

B: If you register usufruct before land ownership, the usufruct canbe registered but when you apply for transfer land to the child the land office will dismiss your application due to this gift (transfer land to child) is going to be granted with charge. The usufruct is a real right and attached with ownership to the child, so this transaction is gift together with charge under 1574 (9)

Option B is likely better for easier court's permission, because the court will consider for the one way benefit of the child and land with usufruct is better than no land, for Option A: By one way benefit of the child may be more dificult for permission to establish an encumbrance on the land belong to the minor because encumbrance will less land value and use by the freehold owner.

[chiangmaibruce]

ThaiAdvocate. That info is very helpful, thank you.

I couldn't get a clear answer on this specific issue before completing my book (refer www.burning-bison.com), but will be sure to add in this new info in the next edition.

- Bruce