Top Army, Navy Units Readied For Red-Shirts Dispersal

[Insight]

steveromagnino spent 4-5 days listening to the speeches and talking with people.

He did a fine write up on the general content.

Link? Thanks.

Post #331 ... "that one" ...

Yes that's it. The gentleman makes an great effort to be correctly informed,

and knows a good number of original sources, for much of the background

that has gotten us to this point.

And now adds some; 'just seen it, and listened intently for constancy

and actual repeated points', first hand observations.

Nice to get a good observer doing this. Publicus was there for a few days,

but his Thai is not a Steve's level, so thanks again for Steve's efforts.

The underlined bit in my last post links directly to it. Apologies about not making it more clearer.

[BNZ]

Perhaps not in economic theories, but in fiscal common sense, the old school military guys did a decent job. ... The greatest UK PM ever Winston Churchill, First Lord of the Admiralty, well what can one say, he just totally rocks.

Oh, come on please ... yes, Churchill was a great PM and he united the country like no-one else could have done at the time, but he was no more successful as an economist than he was in the military where he spent most of his time as a war correspondent. As for his time as First Lord of the Admiralty, you seem to have overlooked his main contribution to WWI: Gallipoli.

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it"

Winston Churchill

That he did, for he was a fine writer however as destroyer of 'The Empire' this celebrated drunkard was unbeatable. 

Another topic ..at another time we have more pressing incompetents to deal with. 

ANZAC day this weekend.

[whiterussian]

"We give the government seven days to return peace to the country or we, every member of the [People's Alliance for Democracy], will perform our duty under the constitution," said Chamlong Srimuang, a leader of the yellow shirts.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/troops-deploye...00419-spbo.html

April 20, 2010

duty under the constitution? que?

Edited April 19, 2010 by whiterussian

[OzMick]

A group of well armed men, a few hundred up to a thousand surrounded by 100,000 people, can wreck an invading group hel_l bent on m,oving the reds.

You saw 250 Thai military shot with mainly rubber bullets last time.

If a large group were to attempt to push the reds out, the red snipers armed with machine guns and automatic rifles, would fill the streets with dead Army.

Some of you, in fact most of you, are unaware of the realities of an urban battle.

The men in black can move about easily all over Bangkok because nobody knows who they are. If you attack the maul area attempting to move them and capture them, they will drop huge numbers of the Thai army down dead. Then, if they do decide to leave, they simply will fade back into the city and start again in another location.

By huge, I mean think about it.

A few hundred special force snipers on the red side can certainly kill a few thousand Thai army should the Thai army group go close. Most of the men in black were not even used the last time and they shot 250 in a short time. The bigger the group to shoot at, and the more they will shoot.

Come in with tanks and they will shoot the tanks with bazookas and rockets.

They have them.

Friends in the Thai military, watermelons, are giving the fire power.

You make your bet and I will make mine.

I bet the Thai military does not attack the shopping mauls.

You see, they do not want to die for a cause they do not believe in.

A major meltdown in the Thai system is taking place.

Thai propaganda posters ( Paid by gov) here who are thai--good luck if your side loses.

You will need it.

thai military shot with rubber bullets? Are you deranged? Can you show me a picture from any source of reds using rubber bullet launchers?

where would they get them from?

The ARMY were using crowd control measures until they were ambushed, because some idiot believed the "peaceful protester" crap. If you think that that mistake will be repeated, you are WRONG! A quote for you "a rabble is no more an army than a pile of building materials is a house. " Socrates, some 3000 years ago, still true.

don't bet your bum, you'll end up a sore loser.

Check amnesty international as to their view . You might learn something

Here the link

http://blog.amnestyusa.org/asia/thailands-...transformation/

Yes, thank you that was most enlightening. Perhaps I am slow, but could you point out to me where this link states, as your idiot friend stated, that the red shirts fired rubber bullets at the army. He obviously doesn't know, and perhaps yourself, that they are NOT fired from military assault rifles. I still firmly believe, unless credible evidence is presented otherwise, that the violence was a pre-planned ambush of the army to discredit them in the eyes of the bleeding hearts of the world. After the utmost in patience and tolerance by the govt, when any attempt to remove was made, it was met with a savage assault.

I have repeatedly tried to warn that the next legitimate attempt to remove these idiots will result in bloodshed catastrophic for this nation. The army soldiers that you see pictured will move through the "hard country boys" like a scythe through wheat, albeit a lot less neatly. That were told to go softly before, and got hurt badly. Look at the kit - no batons and riot shields.

Read again what I objected to in that moronic statement, and stop wasting my time with your irrelevancies.

Edited April 19, 2010 by OzMick

[MaiChai]

Seems like the red shirts have become very quiet since the government almost got them at Taksins (ex?) hotel? The army now has the right to shoot anyone who they deem as dangerous, and since the red shirt mgmnt were almost taken, they must be bricking themselves. If you were in their shoes it would be a choice between laying low or being shot? I mean laser targeting from the top of buildings must be constantly on your mind? It crosses ones mind that army sharp shooters could easily pick out anyone from those heights.

[britmaveric]

^and when the army troops turn on each other then what?

[britmaveric]

Seems like the red shirts have become very quiet since the government almost got them at Taksins (ex?) hotel? The army now has the right to shoot anyone who they deem as dangerous, and since the red shirt mgmnt were almost taken, they must be bricking themselves. If you were in their shoes it would be a choice between laying low or being shot? I mean laser targeting from the top of buildings must be constantly on your mind? It crosses ones mind that army sharp shooters could easily pick out anyone from those heights.

When you hold all the cards - there is nothing to fear. I think you might see a few surprises yet from the democratic fighting red shirts.

[sotsira]

I'm pretty sure closing airports is more detrimental to trade and tourism than malls.

I'm not sure which one is worse. They are both bad for the economy.

All put together they are terrible for the economy and for future foreign investment and tourism in Thailand.

And until Thais work out that the country can not be ruled by minority mobs, then the economy will continue to get worse, which will affect all Thais.

So why is the Thai Baht getting stronger every year since 2007.

Is the Thai baht getting stronger against everything or just the (weaker) $US?

It's got stronger against all the major currencies, irrespective of all the doom & gloom that's happenned in Thailand.

[MaiChai]

I am sure you are right; I can't disagree with you. I guess the choice is dictatorship under the reds or the quasi democracy under the existing government. I know what I prefer.

Think back to the time when Taksin was the "temporary PM"; I would hate to go back to that. At least the press is free to say what it wants at the moment (and we also fall into this category on TV). Alot of folks seem to have forgotten what it was like in Thailand before the coup.

[jcbangkok]

Why are the policemen in Soi Saladaeng wearing red scarves today? I have never seen this as part of their uniform.

Photo source: http://twitpic.com/1gsin4

I noticed many of the police and soldiers wearing a multitude of different colored scars. My guess is that it is to identify what unit they are with. What crossed my mind if that I hope they are not tied in a knot because it would really suck to have somebody grab the scarf from behind and choke one of these guys. I would think they would be better off tying them to their arm.

[whiterussian]

I am sure you are right; I can't disagree with you. I guess the choice is dictatorship under the reds or the quasi democracy under the existing government. I know what I prefer.

Think back to the time when Taksin was the "temporary PM"; I would hate to go back to that. At least the press is free to say what it wants at the moment (and we also fall into this category on TV). Alot of folks seem to have forgotten what it was like in Thailand before the coup.

That's the trouble, a lot of Thai's obviously liked it before the coup!

Some might even say, a majority.. but I wont go that far.

Uphill struggle for Mr A, what with the global banking fiasco... try and explain quantitative easing to a rice farmer... or maybe even to BK hi-so.

I dont know how some posters here can have such energy and desire for force towards people, red or yellow... we all know Thais are rather simple. (in the naive sense)

Compassion doesn't seem to be a virtue many hold dear.

Do 10 burnt buildings, or 100 equal the value of a life?

The PRC would not hesitate there. I would.

Edited April 19, 2010 by whiterussian

[monkfish]

Now I have a question.

Do you think the Government is handling what happened on the 10th April Transparently?

I think they have to. There is too much independent information out there.

There is no evidence that I have seen, or heard of, that shows the army doing something that was clearly unacceptable.

There was the France24 video of the soldiers shooting at protesters, but that was just after they were bombed with a grenade, and even France24 came out with a followup article backing the soldiers.

Even the reds haven't come up with evidence that the army stepped out of line. Certainly nothing that has much credibility, anyway.

They have paraded a few dead bodies, but there is no independent details of how they were killed.

I haven't seen much detail on the autopsies, but apparently they were done independently.

Maybe some red supporters can correct me if I've missed something that they've seen or heard.

Until now there are only 9 autopsy results released of the 25 murdered and then the only information released is that they were shot with high power rifles

mostly in the head and through the Heart. What about the other 16? In 1 victim the bullet was still there so which weapon was used? Should be easy to tell.

Shot through the heart! these were professionals! I mean how many Thais even Know where the heart is??

In the Thai TV you only see videos of the Soldiers who were killed time after time after time the same video its as though no civilians were killed, with one exeption the

guy who was shot in the head but then the media takes forensics into its own hands and claimes he could not have been killed by Soldiers because of the way he fell!

What about official forensic evidence of that??

How many of the 800+ injuries were from rubber bullets and how many from live ammo? How many people are registered missing?

You haven't seen the evidence because its all being blocked including videos on Youtube and hundreds of websites are also being blocked. Why?? Scared of the trough?

Now they are claiming there are terrorists in the Red Shirts but they don't want to give out the information as not to cause panic!!

But have no problem announcing they are surrounding them with Soldiers in positioned in High rise buildings, equiped with what?? Sniper rifles? who knows but I can imagine it would cause plenty of panic amongst the protesters!!

If the the Government were being transparent about the whole thing I may just believe them but to me its seems like a massive cover up and demonetization.

There is so so so much more

[jcbangkok]

^and when the army troops turn on each other then what?

Although a possibility, that is a very unlikely scenario. Soldiers are taught not to think and to simply follow orders. Seeing the soldiers deployed on numerous occasions over the last month, I can tell you without much doubt they were strongly reminded of this before being deployed to the Silom area. It was VERY clear these guys were not going to be shaking hands with the Reds or for that matter giving an inch.

I think for the military to divide you would need key military leaders to be divided and each have followers that are loyal to that leader. For them to be this loyal to a commander would mean they would have to be career type military folks. I just don't see the ranks putting a renegade commander's wishes above their duty but then again this is Thailand and not really sure how much mind molding they do of these soldiers.

It was clear previously that their heart's were not into fighting other Thais but as I said, it looks like those days are over and that they were reminded that "they" only have each other and are duty bound to obey their legal orders.

[johncitizen]

Please take a look at these photos if you have time. They are among the best I have seen from the Rajprasong protest so far and I cannot recommend them enough.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ratchaprasong/

You will notice the Reds have put up an enormous shadecloth over the entire area to protect against government snipers.

Edited April 19, 2010 by johncitizen

[kenai]

Now I have a question.

Do you think the Government is handling what happened on the 10th April Transparently?

I think they have to. There is too much independent information out there.

There is no evidence that I have seen, or heard of, that shows the army doing something that was clearly unacceptable.

There was the France24 video of the soldiers shooting at protesters, but that was just after they were bombed with a grenade, and even France24 came out with a followup article backing the soldiers.

Even the reds haven't come up with evidence that the army stepped out of line. Certainly nothing that has much credibility, anyway.

They have paraded a few dead bodies, but there is no independent details of how they were killed.

I haven't seen much detail on the autopsies, but apparently they were done independently.

Maybe some red supporters can correct me if I've missed something that they've seen or heard.

Until now there are only 9 autopsy results released of the 25 murdered and then the only information released is that they were shot with high power rifles

mostly in the head and through the Heart. What about the other 16? In 1 victim the bullet was still there so which weapon was used? Should be easy to tell.

Shot through the heart! these were professionals! I mean how many Thais even Know where the heart is??

In the Thai TV you only see videos of the Soldiers who were killed time after time after time the same video its as though no civilians were killed, with one exeption the

guy who was shot in the head but then the media takes forensics into its own hands and claimes he could not have been killed by Soldiers because of the way he fell!

What about official forensic evidence of that??

How many of the 800+ injuries were from rubber bullets and how many from live ammo? How many people are registered missing?

You haven't seen the evidence because its all being blocked including videos on Youtube and hundreds of websites are also being blocked. Why?? Scared of the trough?

Now they are claiming there are terrorists in the Red Shirts but they don't want to give out the information as not to cause panic!!

But have no problem announcing they are surrounding them with Soldiers in positioned in High rise buildings, equiped with what?? Sniper rifles? who knows but I can imagine it would cause plenty of panic amongst the protesters!!

If the the Government were being transparent about the whole thing I may just believe them but to me its seems like a massive cover up and demonetization.

There is so so so much more

If it was being held transparently videos and photos such as this would have been in every newspaper and television in the country. This video is very graphic. I have not been keeping up on events daily with this forum so my apologies if it has been discussed already.

this is a link http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f1...hot-head-46162/

[monkfish]

Now I have a question.

Do you think the Government is handling what happened on the 10th April Transparently?

Transparently enough. Certainly a lot more transparently than Col T handled extrajudicial drug war killings, the Tak Bai massacre, and other human rights abuses documented by the UNCHR, Amnesty International etc. And a lot more transparently than the PPP administration handled bloody Oct 7.

Not asking about Mr Thaksin's war on drugs or the previous government but about the 10th of April Murders.

The question still is Who was committing the murders?

This is the question but who ever they were they are professionals!

The government seems to know but not letting on.

[monkfish]

"We give the government seven days to return peace to the country or we, every member of the [People's Alliance for Democracy], will perform our duty under the constitution," said Chamlong Srimuang, a leader of the yellow shirts.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/troops-deploye...00419-spbo.html

April 20, 2010

duty under the constitution? que?

Seems they listen to PAD!

[britmaveric]

It was clear previously that their heart's were not into fighting other Thais but as I said, it looks like those days are over and that they were reminded that "they" only have each other and are duty bound to obey their legal orders.

I'm not so certain as you are. The reds shirts have been spot on with their intel and it's obvious coming from some pretty high ups in the military. This being said it would not surprise me if orders are not followed as given.

[TAWP]

Indo-Siam, Yoshiwara, CNX and alike, all such bad people only interested in self gain and obsessed with greed and violence. The supporters of a repressive regime, if they don't like a differing opinion, they will attack you personally and create distractions from the real, pertinent issues. They are true trolls, kingmixers, equal only to the men in black who slaughtered 21 innocents just recently. They think it's a laughing matter. Shame on them. The latest is talk of donating blood for a bloodbath they are rooting for. Dirty, nasty characters. They are the schoolboy bullies who dream of becoming boys with toys.

Bad people? Equal to those that slaughtered 21 innocent[sic]? Rooting for bloodbath? Dirty, nasty characters?

Well, if these aren't non-factual attacks on other posters, then I am not sure what is...

[WAERTH]

Please take a look at these photos if you have time. They are among the best I have seen from the Rajprasong protest so far and I cannot recommend them enough.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ratchaprasong/

You will notice the Reds have put up an enormous shadecloth over the entire area to protect against government snipers.

Thanks for the pictures John. It clearly shows 2 things I have seen in other vids and pics as well.

1) The red shirts occupy a huge area with lots of tents, cars and other shit to occupy to the space.

2) But there are only a small amount of people left ....

W

[jcbangkok]

Now I have a question.

Do you think the Government is handling what happened on the 10th April Transparently?

I think they have to. There is too much independent information out there.

There is no evidence that I have seen, or heard of, that shows the army doing something that was clearly unacceptable.

There was the France24 video of the soldiers shooting at protesters, but that was just after they were bombed with a grenade, and even France24 came out with a followup article backing the soldiers.

Even the reds haven't come up with evidence that the army stepped out of line. Certainly nothing that has much credibility, anyway.

They have paraded a few dead bodies, but there is no independent details of how they were killed.

I haven't seen much detail on the autopsies, but apparently they were done independently.

Maybe some red supporters can correct me if I've missed something that they've seen or heard.

Until now there are only 9 autopsy results released of the 25 murdered and then the only information released is that they were shot with high power rifles

mostly in the head and through the Heart. What about the other 16? In 1 victim the bullet was still there so which weapon was used? Should be easy to tell.

Shot through the heart! these were professionals! I mean how many Thais even Know where the heart is??

In the Thai TV you only see videos of the Soldiers who were killed time after time after time the same video its as though no civilians were killed, with one exeption the

guy who was shot in the head but then the media takes forensics into its own hands and claimes he could not have been killed by Soldiers because of the way he fell!

What about official forensic evidence of that??

How many of the 800+ injuries were from rubber bullets and how many from live ammo? How many people are registered missing?

You haven't seen the evidence because its all being blocked including videos on Youtube and hundreds of websites are also being blocked. Why?? Scared of the trough?

Now they are claiming there are terrorists in the Red Shirts but they don't want to give out the information as not to cause panic!!

But have no problem announcing they are surrounding them with Soldiers in positioned in High rise buildings, equiped with what?? Sniper rifles? who knows but I can imagine it would cause plenty of panic amongst the protesters!!

If the the Government were being transparent about the whole thing I may just believe them but to me its seems like a massive cover up and demonetization.

There is so so so much more

If it was being held transparently videos and photos such as this would have been in every newspaper and television in the country. This video is very graphic. I have not been keeping up on events daily with this forum so my apologies if it has been discussed already.

this is a link http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f1...hot-head-46162/

"Video not found or access denied" but I was able to download it. There are links on numerous sites with this video.

This video was also aired during a press conference with a military official along with numerous others in the days after the incident. One thing that was pointed out during the press conference is this poor guy was shot in the front of the head after he turned and faced the Red Shirt crowd. In other words the shot came from within the Red Shirts and not from where the military was positioned.

[longway]

I caught a bit of a speech by a woman speaking at the rally this evening, she seemed to believe that the governemnent planning to use 'fon thiam' which I understand is some kind of rain making technique to wash out the reds. At least thats what i think she said.

Does anyone know if this is possible, or is this just some kind of fantasy being fed to the protestors? Its a great idea though, I think about a 3-4 days of rain and everyone would get so fed up they would pack up and head home.

Edited April 19, 2010 by longway

[jcbangkok]

Please take a look at these photos if you have time. They are among the best I have seen from the Rajprasong protest so far and I cannot recommend them enough.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ratchaprasong/

You will notice the Reds have put up an enormous shadecloth over the entire area to protect against government snipers.

Thanks for the pictures John. It clearly shows 2 things I have seen in other vids and pics as well.

1) The red shirts occupy a huge area with lots of tents, cars and other shit to occupy to the space.

2) But there are only a small amount of people left ....

W

I certainly hope the parents that brought and continue to have their children at this site, in violation of the law and all common sense, are charged with some kind of crime. In the US they would be held accountable for their death, as if they shot them themselves, if they are hit by a military bullet.

Edited April 19, 2010 by jcbangkok

[britmaveric]

^military already admitted it had snipers positioned in the tall buildings surrounding the area including behind their own lines. Whether it was an unknown or a military sniper is yet to be seen.

[monkfish]

Please take a look at these photos if you have time. They are among the best I have seen from the Rajprasong protest so far and I cannot recommend them enough.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ratchaprasong/

You will notice the Reds have put up an enormous shadecloth over the entire area to protect against government snipers.

Thanks for the link

Good idea with the netting! keeps the sun of too.

Brave people!

[jcbangkok]

I caught a bit of a speech by a woman speaking at the rally this evening, she seemed to believe that the governemnent planning to use 'fon thiam' which I understand is some kind of rain making technique to wash out the reds. At least thats what i think she said.

Does anyone know if this is possible, or is this just some kind of fantasy being fed to the protestors? Its a great idea though, I think about a 3-4 days of rain and everyone would get so fed up they would pack up and head home.

If we could make it rain there would be nobody starving in Ethiopia. However there is a way to help it to rain by seeding clouds that may or may not be already ready to unleash their rain. I am all for doing this if it were overcast and there was a possibility to make it rain. Be a great and peaceful way to hopefully get things back to normal and worth a shot.

My girlfriend also mentioned that the government should do this the other day. I think a lot of Thais misunderstand the whole rain making process because they are only aware the King was successful in helping bring rain to drought areas by "seeding clouds" and if I am not mistaking, his majesty received a patent on his technique/process. But again, you need clouds and cannot make rain from blue skies.

Edited April 19, 2010 by jcbangkok

[TheOldWolf]

^military already admitted it had snipers positioned in the tall buildings surrounding the area including behind their own lines. Whether it was an unknown or a military sniper is yet to be seen.

Link please!

[jcbangkok]

^military already admitted it had snipers positioned in the tall buildings surrounding the area including behind their own lines. Whether it was an unknown or a military sniper is yet to be seen.

Can you please provide a link to this admission? My understanding is they just started to put military personal on buildings. I have not heard anything about them doing this previously. In fact it makes no sense since they only discovered the terrorists in the crowds after the incident.

Edit: Also appears the angle of the shot was front to back and came from ground level. But even if this was not the case, I believe you are mistaking in what the government said. I am pretty sure they said there were terrorists in buildings NOT military.

Edited April 19, 2010 by jcbangkok

[whiterussian]

^military already admitted it had snipers positioned in the tall buildings surrounding the area including behind their own lines. Whether it was an unknown or a military sniper is yet to be seen.

Can you please provide a link to this admission? My understanding is they just started to put military personal on buildings. I have not heard anything about them doing this previously. In fact it makes no sense since they only discovered the terrorists in the crowds after the incident.

Does seem likely... or at least a standard military maneuver.

All over the rooftops in the UK and US when the Queen goes on parade..

[johncitizen]

Btw. keep in mind these pics were taken toward the middle of the day, when the crowds are at their lowest point. They usually peak at around 8pm as the Bangkok people finish work, but since the beginning of the second Army deployment several thousand more Reds have been deployed from the North to reinforce the protesters. If there is a crackdown however, it will be extremely bloody, as this time troops number in their thousands and have been armed from the get-go.

Regarding transparency and evidence- if the Government truly wished for a transparent and independent investigation they should have handed it over to an international body. Instead, they have chosen the DSI, which was set up by the coup makers and is staffed by current members of CAPO. That is about as ridiculous as asking Wall Street giants to "regulate themselves."

There can be no transparency when the Government controls the media and the internet, forcing news stations to broadcast images they like, and shutting down/blocking footage they find too inconvenient (or as they cutely term it, "distorting of the facts.") I have been fortunate enough to see several videos before they were discovered and disposed of by the MICT.

One of the most disturbing of them was filmed on Khao San Rd. by a backpacker standing behind the locked gates of a guesthouse, obviously trying to hide him/herself from view. It showed 10 or 15 soldiers beating the crap out of a Red Shirt protester lying on the ground. He had no weapons, and they all had truncheons. They were taking turns hitting him over the head, shoulders and back while he cowered and begged them to stop. Occasionally, one of them would take a running kick at his head or stamp on him while they stood over him. They only stopped when an ambulance arrived, and wandered away, doing everything but putting their hands in their pockets and whistling in their attempt to pretend they had nothing to do with it. It was one of the purest expressions of hatred and brutality I have seen and sickened me even more than the footage of protesters getting shot in the head.

Thankfully, the Red Shirts have collected hard copies of most of the footage in existence and you can see it all by wandering around the protests and checking out some of the amateur museums they have set up.