Top Army, Navy Units Readied For Red-Shirts Dispersal

[tonywebster]

vicco

but you may as well bang your head against a brick wall mate, these yellows are brainwashed, an insult they are happy to throw at people that don't buy the government propaganda.

Exactly... but don't give up posting as it adds balance to the, mainly, yellow threads - I take there comments largely with a 'pinch of salt' and just carry on putting the other side - have you noticed the yellows normally insult and rant? and the red sympathisers are more polite and calm? what does that tell you?

I pointed this out yesterday but of course the yellows responded by denying this while abusing me at the same time

I get the impression that most of the yellows on here are not as clever or important as they wish and this leads to frustration when the more intelligent un-brainwashed people point out they are talking garbage. I will get a response to this post ow talking about the French or Chairman Mao or Vietnam, or left over weapons from Korea, in fact they will respond with anything that is not relevant.

Well - there is a hard core of 4/5 yellow posters - I don't mind a good argument but there abusive language does irritate me sometimes and I have hit the 'report' button occasionally. I sometimes had a go back but was warned for using the word 'dunce' - strange how the yellows seem to carry on and on insulting and nothing 'seems' to be done - I get called 'Thaksin apologist', 'Red Propagandist', Red supporter, 'I quack like a duck', 'talk out of my arse' and worse by these intelligent yellow fellows frequently – the thing is people would take more notice of their arguments if they stopped this behaviour.

I agree 100%, but until the mods reign them in they will continue to do it.

I always feel that when someone resorts to abuse or shouting they have already lost, maybe we should treat them with the contempt that they show others, they show all the traits of the current government, no doubt they see us as peasants that just deserve to be swatted by the military because the government has failed.

[geriatrickid]

He's sure showing his age here.

Old school meets pre-school. 2nd childhood maybe.

"...because a great many of TVF's respondents have a profound hatred of these people."

My how the hyperbole flies....

The hatred is apparent with the constant use of the evil commie routine. In respect to the other groups, please do not deny that some of the stuff that is spouted is quite vile. Do I need to list all the conspiracy nonsense ? Seriously, read some of the wild accusations, the blood libel in the threads. It is not hyperbole when I state that there are some with a profound hatred.

Surely you are not going to tell me that when some of the shining lights in here support or advocate killing people, literally going in and machine gunning them down or assassinating people, when there is no capital crime let alone a court judgement convicting anyone, that this is not hate, but love? Please look at some of the very detailed statements made about the most effective way of killing the protestors. Look at the incredible comments in respect to the "communists". The comments suggest to me sociopathic tendancies. Sane, well adjusted people do not fantasize about killing people.

I certainly can appreciate that there are strong opinions. I can even understand and agree with some of the concerns expressed about the UDD supporters. However, when people start pushing for violence, for death or that fabricate wild conspiracy theories, that to me is hateful. If you disagree, so be it. However, you cannot deny that some comments are really unbalanced, like they come from people that would have been in Waco, TX except they were in a mental hospital at the time unbalanced.

[vicco]

vicco

but you may as well bang your head against a brick wall mate, these yellows are brainwashed, an insult they are happy to throw at people that don't buy the government propaganda.

Exactly... but don't give up posting as it adds balance to the, mainly, yellow threads - I take there comments largely with a 'pinch of salt' and just carry on putting the other side - have you noticed the yellows normally insult and rant? and the red sympathisers are more polite and calm? what does that tell you?

I pointed this out yesterday but of course the yellows responded by denying this while abusing me at the same time

I get the impression that most of the yellows on here are not as clever or important as they wish and this leads to frustration when the more intelligent un-brainwashed people point out they are talking garbage. I will get a response to this post ow talking about the French or Chairman Mao or Vietnam, or left over weapons from Korea, in fact they will respond with anything that is not relevant.

Well - there is a hard core of 4/5 yellow posters - I don't mind a good argument but there abusive language does irritate me sometimes and I have hit the 'report' button occasionally. I sometimes had a go back but was warned for using the word 'dunce' - strange how the yellows seem to carry on and on insulting and nothing 'seems' to be done - I get called 'Thaksin apologist', 'Red Propagandist', Red supporter, 'I quack like a duck', 'talk out of my arse' and worse by these intelligent yellow fellows frequently – the thing is people would take more notice of their arguments if they stopped this behaviour.

Let us not forget that in certain parts of western culture "Yellow" means cowardice....quite fitting in this case.... . Cowards tend to deflect attention from the real issues and move off in a tangent to avoid having to deal with them. Insults are so easy. Thoughtful answers are much more difficult. The thing is, most of us can respect a well reasoned and thoughtful answer even if we don't agree. Not many people respect insulting behavior--even if the insults are coming from their own side of an argument. Now there is a thought for the day...

[generalgrant]

The Mods are doing their best.

They have to deal with Pro reds and Pro Regime posters

They also must get some presure from Big Brother Thailand as well.

My points now.

This time the uprising against the regime is unlike any other in the past.

Yes, students have been shot down at Universities. Yes protestors have been killed by the regime.

So so many times the regime has done terrible violence and gotten away with more years of total power. Go ahead all, look up the violence in Thailand on a Google search.

But this time is so so different.

The group in Sukhumvit are not college kids. The army ran at them firing weapons and the men in Red and black shot back. They shot 250 or so Thai army men with mostly rubber bullits but they did shoot and kill the leader of the thai military that now famous night. After, the reds stood tall and the Thai army ran. Fact

Go look at the video.

We have a class war and a war of Issan country people vs thai city people and thai Chinese of Bangkok.

"The dimension of class is indeed a key component of these events. Nattawut Saikua, one of the UDD leaders, declared as the red-shirts streamed into Bangkok from every direction on 18 March 2010 that the protest was the beginning of a "class war". This was echoed by Thanet Aphornsuvan of Thammasat University as the state's violence was unleashed on the evening of 10 April: "The battle [is] between the army that supports the establishment, government and Bangkok's urban elite against the people from the provinces." It is a real class war. The state's use of violence to repress the red shirts has not succeeded; they remain in key locations throughout Bangkok, defying Abhisit Vejjajiva's demand that they evacuate the city's streets. The red shirts continue to call for the immediate resignation of the prime minister, the dissolution of parliament, and plans for new elections. Moreover, the official attempts to constrain independent media - which long predate the state of emergency - have themselves been widely reported through a host of new-media outlets; and scholars and activists raise their voices in favour of renewed efforts to broker peace.

During the Songkhran uprising in April 2009, I wrote an article for openDemocracy in which I quoted Antonio Gramsci's famous line from The Prison Notebooks: "The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appears." A year later, the counter-revolutionary violence of 10 April 2010 seeks to keep the new at bay, and carries the potential for even greater loss of life. Thailand's crisis continues.

Tyrell Haberkorn is a Research Fellow in the School of International, Political and Strategic Studies at the Australian National University.

[MaiChai]

But this isn't Western culture? So why would yellow=cowards mean anything to Thais? A rather pointless post. I refuse to be dragged down into these personal low bun fights. Just making the point that pointless posts are a waste of everyones time. Lets keep it on topic and talk about relevant things?

[rametindallas]

Forgive me if I'm mistaken.

But I thought the whole point of Special Operations deployments was that you don't tell the other side you're coming

thats true Crossy, if you want to surprise and kill them outright

if you don't, then its good strategy to instill a little fear in the enemy

let them know and see whats coming and give some time for those who don't have the stomach for a fight to leave

i believe i advocated this in my post yesterday

looks like someone in authority was reading it...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Rajprasong-H...ts-t357069.html #13

this article gets to the root of the problem in trying to remove these protesters

the authorities have allowed then to get comfortable, they are well fed and watered

they have bathing facilities, toilets and entertainment.

if it came to a fight they are well rested and ready for it

the authorities should effect some measures to change that situation before making any efforts to move them

a little sleep deprevation would go a long way towards success

so lets bring in some huge mobile disco units, surround the site with them safe behind army/police lines and serande them with some very sad Thai songs that refer to dead relatives, lost loves, long dead favourite buffaloes, loss of sons, daughters, motorbikes etc

lets set the tone for a massive loss, lets get people thinking about a loss/death of a relative.

lets get them thinking about their own mortality and how their death might affect their family

lets get some huge projectors and use it to project images onto nearby buildings, of their beloved leader and his HiSo family enjoying the high life on his private planes, private yachts and reflecting his extravagent living in expensive hotels.

there is no need for sound, just add subtitles that tell them how Thaksin is spending the money he stole from them and how he is travelling the world in luxury whilst they sleep on the streets.

you could do comparison shots, him-you, him-you

a general mood should be created of anticipation of an attack by the troops

one that will come in the early hours

paranoia should be introduced at every opportunity

the minds of the combatants will do the rest

bring in some big troop carrying helicopters in the daytime and very loudly and very visibly drop heavily armed troops on to the top of buildings surrounding the rally area

have them dramatically drop down ropes to the roofs SAS style

these guys do not need to actaully be military, they could even be amateur mountaineers, no need for them to have weapons

this can be documented by officials before hand

its just to introduce a little paranoia to the crowd

start and encourage rumours amongst the crowd that they are surrounded by hundreds of snipers.

let them think that every time they see the glint of the sun on a window its a snipers scope

this can easily be done by officials infiltrating the crowd

Thais love rumours

have a few very visible and highly publicised drive bys of the area by big tanks laden with fully armed troops with very visible weapons like rocket launchers, grenade launchers and maybe even towing some howitzers.

let the reds see whats actually on the move against them

more paranoia

lets have some very visible substantial troop movements by some very heavily armed troops

preferably known to be from the south or the borders with Burma and Cambodia were they are used to dealing with insurgents

have them fly into Don Mueng live on TV

this should be highly publicised and rumours about what they are doing in Bangkok should be circulated to the reds

rumours should circulate that martial law is going to be introduced

rumours should indicate a shoot to kill policy is in place for those who do not obey the armys orders

rumours should tell the reds that they should write letters to their loved ones and family whilst they have a last chance to do so

more paranoia

rumours should circulate that somehow the army has added some kind of powerful sleeping draft to the water supplies

also to the bottled water being supplied to them

also to the food, and that they should treat everything with suspicion now

tell them if they feel sleepy they should report to the medical tent immediately

tell them they should not go to sleep and that it could be dangerous to go to sleep

tell them its the same kind of drug that katoeys use on clients in Pattaya, they will know of many that have died whilst being robbed.

to make sure show news clippings in Thai on the projectors of the deaths

more paranoia, less sleep

at night when things do settle down, the army should safely detonate huge exposive charges in the immediate area

if not explosives then launch huge fireworks every 20 minutes

send off flares to illuminate the area

this will keep them awake and think that the war starting

it will make for less sleep and more paranoia

it may even flush out the ronin warriors who could be taken out by snipers

have some snipers stationed with their spotters with a recording equipped spotting scope

that way when the kill is made it can be seen afterwards by the media to have been on an armed person, not an innocent protestor and therefore a justifiable kill

in the early hours of the morning stealth helicopters could drop capsicum onto the crowd using a crop dusting attachment

fire fighting chanooks could drop thousands of gallons of water onto the stage and take out the electrics and give then a songkran treat too

one could get unidentified bodies from the morgue, dress them in red shirts and leave them in areas near to the rally

they should be in a position where they can easily be found

it should be rumoured that there are reds in the crowd that are with the army and government and that they are picking off the protestors one by one

they should be told to look at your neighbour with suspicion and care

you might be the next victim !

more paranoia.........

what happened to the body beforehand should be well documented and can be proven as false flag bodies later when the reds point fingers at the Army

rumours to promote paranoia and sleep depravation should circulate all the time, maybe that the US has joined the fight, maybe the SAS, the Gurkhas or Mossad

maybe that private contractors from Blackwater have flown into to Thailand from Iraq

maybe a local building should be blown up by the army as a message to the reds

the paranoia value would easily cover rebuilding costs

the red who go home every night and return next day should be made to stay at the rally ground and told that a night attack is coming and they are needed at the site to defend each other

keep them there all the time with false rumours and deprive them of sleep too

if i was in charge these reds would not have more than 10 minutes peace day or night

their heads would be full with black magic, broken buddahs, defeatist thoughts, paranoid ideas and rumours

their imagination would do what the army cannot do at this time

ok, i have to get on now, other points to address, feel free to add to the diversionary ideas i have proposed

remember all should be relatively non violent and should intended to increase paranoia and sleep depravation not to take lives

once they are literally tired out then the army should attempt move them

less sleep=less fight

Three points: First, I don't want to get on your wrong side. Second, I hope Mr. Obama allows the CIA to advise Anupong and, Third, whoever has the best video wins.

[Tolley]

I support neither side and don't undertand how many farangs here are taking sides.

I suppose if you had a vested economic interest it might make sense taking sides but otherwise you are getting more of the same no matter who gets in power.

Neither side is promising any major reforms and the pages and pages of silly arguments that have occupied many of the topics here really are an exercise in futility. ie who shot first, who did what when etc

None of this really matters in the long run because at the moment no matter who is governing the country nothing much iks going to change except perhaps for the players who come in and out of favour.

[MaiChai]

generalgrant, you miss the point that not everyone agrees with the red shirts. The PM has immense support from people who would be best described as middle class. You have a situation where you have two main groups in the country: the middle class educated versus the country lower class who are poorly educated. This is a national divide that can only be remedied over time, where by the poorer lower class have access to education and opportunities to improve their lot in life. In western economies this happened already in the last 100 years; its going to take time in Thailand. There is also some mindset in the country people in that they don't want to improve their education; I have spent a long time in the country and know the country people.

Also this red shirt movement is paid for by Taksin. People are being paid to come and protest in Bangkok. If it did not have Taksins money behind it, it would not have happened. This is about getting Taksin back in power. This is very clear. If the reds were interested in democracy they would use democratic means to achieve their aims; they refused to negotiate or wait a reasonable time frame for elections. This is about Taksin getting his seized money back asap; Taksin needs to make this happen asap or his seized money will no longer be available. Hence the pressure to force an election asap. Everyone knows this information.

Interesting the development: the hi-so red shirt leaders who have been staying in hotels are now going to sleep on the streets! They are organising VIP toilets with aircon for themselves! These toilets won't be available to all the red shirts.

I also hear the red shirt numbers are quite down; folks don't want to die for Taksins money, and there is some stigma about being associated with terrorists (its a Thai thing; once you are labelled a terrorist then the rest of you family is tainted with this). Also some red shirts are concerned their hi-so management will run away when the going gets tough and they will be left to the fend off the armies guns! Thais are finally starting to see through the red shirts.

[Juzrelax]

Just a thought, why not disperce the crowd now while numbers are down in order to minimize injury?

Take the area, clean up the mess and don't allow mobs of any colour to re-form under the emergency decree.

[bkkjames]

Just a thought, why not disperce the crowd now while numbers are down in order to minimize injury?

Take the area, clean up the mess and don't allow mobs of any colour to re-form under the emergency decree.

Unless they arrest the leaders, they will just move somewhere else.

[tonywebster]

Just a thought, why not disperce the crowd now while numbers are down in order to minimize injury?

Take the area, clean up the mess and don't allow mobs of any colour to re-form under the emergency decree.

They have had many chances while the crowds have been small, but for whatever reason have not taken it, maybe the army were not ready, maybe they don't have the brains to work out when the crowds are smaller, maybe they know there are people waiting to shoot them, or maybe deep down the army actually side with the reds but can't be shown to be this way.

Or the most likely scenario is that the army are as inept as the current government.

[vicco]

But this isn't Western culture? So why would yellow=cowards mean anything to Thais? A rather pointless post. I refuse to be dragged down into these personal low bun fights. Just making the point that pointless posts are a waste of everyones time. Lets keep it on topic and talk about relevant things?

Really, this is a Thai forum? Seems to me that most if not all the posters on here are "western" with perhaps a few exceptions. My "pointless" post was in response to the constant vitriolic, nasty crap that a certain group on here engage in...constantly, thread after thread, day after day. You should read a few dozen of them if you want to see pointless posts and time wasting. Yellow= cowardice probably means nothing to Thai's.....but we are not Thais so it does mean something on here. I think it is entirely relevant to the subject being discussed...otherwise I would not bother. Is for example the endless harping on about "Thaksin apologists" or calling people "morons" just because they have a different point of view relevant, useful or helpful? Perhaps you should direct your attention to those folks....or are you OK with name calling, petty insults and other forms of disrespectful behavior...as long as it's "on topic"

[rametindallas]

Please take a look at these photos if you have time. They are among the best I have seen from the Rajprasong protest so far and I cannot recommend them enough.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ratchaprasong/

You will notice the Reds have put up an enormous shadecloth over the entire area to protect against government snipers.

Thanks for the link. Great pics. There are some very poor people in this crowd who are making more money than they have ever made in their lives. Can't the govt. stretch this out so these people can make something for a change. This money will trickle into local economies. If there is eventually a peaceful resolution to this situation, it could be a win, win for everyone except Dr. Taksin, his accolytes, Communists, anarchists, and other ne'er do wells.

The reds (poor) get recognition, income (via Shinawatra companies), a pound of flesh from the Amatya of Bangkok, and possibly a beginning of a grassroots political movement.

The people of Bangkok get their lives back and for that they will be grateful.

The current govt. get to stay and see if it can effect policies that make Thailand better for ALL.

The Amataya get a thorn removed; always a great relief.

The expats and tourist can get back to their decadent ways (don't take this too seriously)

[Mekhong]

Just a thought, why not disperce the crowd now while numbers are down in order to minimize injury?

Take the area, clean up the mess and don't allow mobs of any colour to re-form under the emergency decree.

Unless they arrest the leaders, they will just move somewhere else.

And look what happened last time the authorities tried to arrest some of the leaders ...

[bangkoklight]

Let us not forget that in certain parts of western culture "Yellow" means cowardice.... quite fitting in this case... Cowards tend to deflect attention from the real issues and move off in a tangent to avoid having to deal with them. Insults are so easy. Thoughtful answers are much more difficult. The thing is, most of us can respect a well reasoned and thoughtful answer even if we don't agree. Not many people respect insulting behavior--even if the insults are coming from their own side of an argument. Now there is a thought for the day...

That about sums it up. The Yellows' argument is always one of attack. Attacking their plans. Attacking their manifesto. Attacking their beliefs. Attacking them because of one corrupt man's wealth, which incidentally is nothing compared to the combined wealth of the old money elite. Attacking them because they don't want to give up their power. Attacking them because they are scared. Attacking them because they, themselves, don't want to get their fingers out and work.

The Yellows are merely servants to a (still) untouchable elite who want to manage and control the scene at the expense of the workers, but this will change. Some of these workers are Yellows themselves. Yellow only because they're happy to work for their masters in the belief that they will come back as a master in another life. The majority of workers are rural and they've had enough. They don't fear the system. They know what it's all about. They know how it's cheating them. They're not cowards. And they certainly don't need a comfy airport to protest and sleep in.

The Yellows are the true cowards, creating distractions at every opportunity they can. "Oh! The Red leaders came to the protest site in a car while their supporters had to get a bus!", "Oh! The Reds are dropping trash in the city and the street cleaners have to pick it up!", "Oh! The Red leaders slept in a hotel while their supporters slept on the streets!" Shock, shock horror! Does Abhisit sleep in a tent? No, don't be silly. What's next? "Oh! The Red leaders use Imperial Leather and the supporters use Sunlight?" These Yellows need to wake up. They think they're living in a fairy tale land. Yellows = Pathetic children.

[rametindallas]

Just a thought, why not disperce the crowd now while numbers are down in order to minimize injury?

Take the area, clean up the mess and don't allow mobs of any colour to re-form under the emergency decree.

Slowly, slowly, cachee monkey. I read that on TV. Seems appropriate. How long can you keep these people whipped up until they are bored and go home? I think some of these people really need the money and will stay until they can't or the money tap runs dry.

[MaiChai]

Yawn. You guys continue your bickering, I will try and stay out of it. Glad the daily updates are read only.

[ozzydom]

Just a thought, why not disperce the crowd now while numbers are down in order to minimize injury?

Take the area, clean up the mess and don't allow mobs of any colour to re-form under the emergency decree.

They have had many chances while the crowds have been small, but for whatever reason have not taken it, maybe the army were not ready, maybe they don't have the brains to work out when the crowds are smaller, maybe they know there are people waiting to shoot them, or maybe deep down the army actually side with the reds but can't be shown to be this way.

Or the most likely scenario is that the army are as inept as the current government.

Today could be the day that things come to a head.

Reports indicate that redshirt numbers are down yet Weng states that his redshirt forces will be split , with one group to hold their present position and another to march on an undisclosed location, authorities could see this action as the time to make their move.

Divide and conqure comes to mind.

[noahvail]

This has been an interesting thread. It has brought points from other threads, and made some new points as well.

Seems to me, after thinking about this for a while, that:

1) The Red Shirts say that the Yellow Shirts are brainwashed.

2) The Yellow Shirts say that the Red Shirts are brainwashed.

3) I'm not too sure, but it seems that both Red and Yellow think the White Shirts are brainwashed.

4) Purple Shirts? I don't recall seeing any evidence (a bit of vitriol perhaps), but probably both sides think they are brainwashed as well.

So it appears that the only ones who haven't been brainwashed are the Plaid Shirts.

I'll have to have a couple of shirts made up tomorrow

[steveromagnino]

If we could make it rain there would be nobody starving in Ethiopia. However there is a way to help it to rain by seeding clouds that may or may not be already ready to unleash their rain. I am all for doing this if it were overcast and there was a possibility to make it rain. Be a great and peaceful way to hopefully get things back to normal and worth a shot.

My girlfriend also mentioned that the government should do this the other day. I think a lot of Thais misunderstand the whole rain making process because they are only aware the King was successful in helping bring rain to drought areas by "seeding clouds" and if I am not mistaking, his majesty received a patent on his technique/process. But again, you need clouds and cannot make rain from blue skies.

It isn't really that appropriate to make rain in a city like Bangkok; it would be a huge waste of time and effort when that same effort could be put into making rain elsewhere which needs it. In addition, I doubt you can control it to rain specifically in a 5km radius especially given the prevailing southerly monsoon has been in full force the last few days

As I understand the patents, the rain making system has a variety of methods, and relies on atmospheric pressure and amount of moisture in the air, not necessarily that there are clouds in the sky - that's one of the slight differences of the patents here relative to patents used for the more generic silver iodide burning methods used by ski resorts, who just seed the cloud upwind from the ground, then wait for the snow to drop downwind also using the topography of the mountain ranges.

It basically using a variety of chemicals that bind together the water molecules, until they get large enough to form clouds, and then large enough to cause rain.

And I have it from a variety of people that on a blue cloudless day in the morning, by afternoon the clouds appeared, then it poured with rain for a few days. However, i am sure it still relies on some aspect of moisture and changes in air pressure.

I've been told by some western typical bar experts, that this is another snow job and there is no real science, that you cannot make it rain at will. Tell that to the ski resorts worldwide who use cloud seeding for the last 20 years to protect their revenues (vail, Aspen, et al)

I expected that this rumour would make its way around the red shirts; I have also heard similar stories that apparently he who shall not be named never did any of the sailing exploits claimed and doesn't know how to sail at all, it was all made up. All part of the ongoing Jakapop / Torpedo coordinated red shirt approach to knocking down a stone wall...you do it brick by brick.

Anyhow, there has been some heavy rain anyhow; the red shirts are used to it, and anyhow, they are willing to trespass onto CPB/Central/Gaysorn etc land anyhow to get shelter; I doubt they have a problem in just sitting it out; most of them from upcountry are tough enough to handle a little rain - tougher than me anyhow ;-)

As for this idea that the Red shirts are the rural working class, and the yellow shirts are all elite.

There are some middle class and some very rich red shirt supporters - a few who are betting on the off chance that should Thaksin ever return, that he is one of the most vindictive long memory politicians out there, and he will reward his supporters while punishing those who stood against him. I also know a few yellow shirters that are broke working class.

I know far more people that are neither red nor yellow.

For example....if PT are the red shirt political arm...then we can say much of the central rural area and certainly the south are not red shirt suppporters, even the poor areas.

most recent byelection suratthani Democrats 122,032 votes. Pheu Thai Party 24,601 votes.

I am guessing those who follow the red shirts will recall the Maytee vs. 50 year old Red shirt canvasser fight that followed this (not surprising to me, but perhaps surprising to some red shirters) defeat. Apparently, I suppose, Surat Thani must be one of those rich full of Amartaya provinces.....except the statistics don't support this of course, but that's only because the coup government makes up the statistics :-)

In fact, the red shirts, the majority of them right now at Ratchaprasong, a decent number are actually originally from Isaan (mostly) but working in BKK - security guards, factories, motorcycle taxis, etc. The attempts to get a large rural contingent down to Bangkok has already long failed and that strategy is not likely to ever work; it is simply too costly to run a rally having to pay people to come down (let's face it the really poor ppl, they cannot afford to come to the rally themselves and fund themselves every day without work). Remember the million people they were going to have? They are running at less than 10% of that the entire time. In the early morning now it is around 1% of that.

The reason why it swells in the evening, is the Bangkok based working class, mostly made up on non native Bangkokians, but er, how to say, effectively permanent residents in Bangkok but still with a connection to upcountry.

For those who think this is a windfall to the poor, have a think about all the workers paid by hour, the stalls outside gaysorn in the evenings, the workers who are displaced. The small time entrepreneurs who will lose from this. For every winner (and there aren't many) there are countless losers here. If it were to acheive an honourable objective, then perhaps it would be more justifiable.

But to try to hoodwink the population to bring back Thaksin through fiddling the constitution and have some more people have to die?

not really so worth it but that's just my humble opinion.

Edited April 20, 2010 by steveromagnino

[ozzydom]

I have noticed a large swing in sentiment here in the villages.

It seems that the redshirts V the Goverment was one thing but now it is the redshirts V the army and that is a different thing altogether.

Maybe it is the fact that huge numbers of ordinary Thai families here in Isaan have family members in the Armed Forces

Just my observations from the boondocks.

[ozzieman05]

Just a thought, why not disperce the crowd now while numbers are down in order to minimize injury?

Take the area, clean up the mess and don't allow mobs of any colour to re-form under the emergency decree.

You just got my Thai wifes vote for PM

Note exactly Rocket Science

[LevelHead]

You have to expect Reds numbers to be down.

The Army have live weapons in Bangkok and are threatening to kill fellow Thai's.

That is unprecedented. It shows how far Abhisit/Suthep/Prayuth have gone now, they cannot lose so they must win at all costs, even if many more must die.

I spent the last few days travelling around the north and I can report that Abhisit/Democrats/BJT are finished, they will never get any support from the majority of the Thai people ever again (do not forget the majority live north of Bangkok).

This is probably why Abhisit/Democrats will never give in now, an election now and they will be slaughtered, so its probably best for them to kill more people and cling to power to try to find ways to evade any consequences.

Sad that Thai politics comes down to needing to kill people to cling to power.

You can understand why Chavilit/Somchai want to speak to the highest authority, it would seem the only way to stop the bloodshed now as the Democrats and the coalition seem hel_l bent on more blood and deaths to save them from Democracy.

Many Reds I spoke to now refuse to go to the protest site, with the Thai army with live ammo and it said they will shoot to kill, then can you honestly expect people to go.

How sad it is that Abhisit and his ilk use the Army with live weapons and shoot to kill orders to cling to power. That is how sick these people are, not contend with stealing power through a coup, stealing power through the courts, stealing power through a fixed parliamentary coup, they know cling to power via live bullets and guns and threats to kill more.

Very sad.

[ozzieman05]

I have noticed a large swing in sentiment here in the villages.

It seems that the redshirts V the Goverment was one thing but now it is the redshirts V the army and that is a different thing altogether.

Maybe it is the fact that huge numbers of ordinary Thai families here in Isaan have family members in the Armed Forces

Just my observations from the boondocks.

Thai wife after a phone call home to village tells me things are getting hot in the north

They are no longer being asked to help, but told what they must do or else

She also tells me a new force called the Orange shirts is building in numbers, for what ??????

She also was told monies from an unknown source has been bput in her families bank account and also hers as she owns land, for what reason Unknown

[negreanu]

Many Reds I spoke to now refuse to go to the protest site, with the Thai army with live ammo and it said they will shoot to kill, then can you honestly expect people to go.

Excellent best news I have heard all week. I must congratulate the PM on the way he has handled the protestors. Looks like their back is broken and will continue to do so as support is dropping rapidly.

Time they went back to picking rice which there is nothing wrong with and leaving politics to those with the education and ability to practice. I think it will be over in days now without further violence. Looking like a major victory for democracy.

Edited April 20, 2010 by negreanu

[bangkoklight]

This has been an interesting thread. It has brought points from other threads, and made some new points as well.

Seems to me, after thinking about this for a while, that:

1) The Red Shirts say that the Yellow Shirts are brainwashed.

2) The Yellow Shirts say that the Red Shirts are brainwashed.

3) I'm not too sure, but it seems that both Red and Yellow think the White Shirts are brainwashed.

4) Purple Shirts? I don't recall seeing any evidence (a bit of vitriol perhaps), but probably both sides think they are brainwashed as well.

So it appears that the only ones who haven't been brainwashed are the Plaid Shirts.

I'll have to have a couple of shirts made up tomorrow.

The Yellow shirts have not been brainwashed. They have no brains to wash. They merely wash the shirts of the old money elite. The Reds have been brainwashed for decades by the elite and their Yellow messengers, but now they are standing up and fighting. If only the Yellows could do the same and think for themselves.

[LevelHead]

I have noticed a large swing in sentiment here in the villages.

It seems that the redshirts V the Goverment was one thing but now it is the redshirts V the army and that is a different thing altogether.

Maybe it is the fact that huge numbers of ordinary Thai families here in Isaan have family members in the Armed Forces

Just my observations from the boondocks.

Nonsense, people only see this as Abhisit/Democrats/Elite V The Reds.

People in the north say that as the Army is likely 80% all Isaan boys, its why you will not see the Army moving against the people, or if they do then its just for show and stop them getting into trouble.

They have to bring in special battalions of "non Isaan" (and there are not many of them) to do this clean and kill job.

As you saw last time the majority of the Army happily let the soldiers take their weapons and then retreat.

They have now got most of their "non isaan" battalions into Bangkok, which is why Chavilit and Somchai are trying to prevent the massacre that is being planned.

Thaksin knows what is happening, everyone does. Mass murder or a coup, its the only the Elite can now stay in power and attempt to cover everything up and get immunity for their actions that led to many people getting killed.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...ec=Worldupdates

.

[Juzrelax]

Just a thought, why not disperce the crowd now while numbers are down in order to minimize injury?

Take the area, clean up the mess and don't allow mobs of any colour to re-form under the emergency decree.

You just got my Thai wifes vote for PM

Note exactly Rocket Science

Well, if I'm going to apply for a job in Thailand I may aswell start at the top!

....I have 1 vote...can I get a 2nd?

On a serious note, in order to disperce protesters while minimizing injury how about shooting tear gas in via hellicopter?

Unless the red shirts have RPG's it might work.

[LevelHead]

I have noticed a large swing in sentiment here in the villages.

It seems that the redshirts V the Goverment was one thing but now it is the redshirts V the army and that is a different thing altogether.

Maybe it is the fact that huge numbers of ordinary Thai families here in Isaan have family members in the Armed Forces

Just my observations from the boondocks.

Thai wife after a phone call home to village tells me things are getting hot in the north

They are no longer being asked to help, but told what they must do or else

She also tells me a new force called the Orange shirts is building in numbers, for what ??????

She also was told monies from an unknown source has been bput in her families bank account and also hers as she owns land, for what reason Unknown

LOL

[ozzydom]

I have noticed a large swing in sentiment here in the villages.

It seems that the redshirts V the Goverment was one thing but now it is the redshirts V the army and that is a different thing altogether.

Maybe it is the fact that huge numbers of ordinary Thai families here in Isaan have family members in the Armed Forces

Just my observations from the boondocks.

Nonsense, people only see this as Abhisit/Democrats/Elite V The Reds.

People in the north say that as the Army is likely 80% all Isaan boys, its why you will not see the Army moving against the people, or if they do then its just for show and stop them getting into trouble.

They have to bring in special battalions of "non Isaan" (and there are not many of them) to do this clean and kill job.

As you saw last time the majority of the Army happily let the soldiers take their weapons and then retreat.

They have now got most of their "non isaan" battalions into Bangkok, which is why Chavilit and Somchai are trying to prevent the massacre that is being planned.

Thaksin knows what is happening, everyone does. Mass murder or a coup, its the only the Elite can now stay in power and attempt to cover everything up and get immunity for their actions that led to many people getting killed.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...ec=Worldupdates

.

Ha Ha Who can argue with somebody who gets more insight into Thai affairs during "a few days wandering around the North" than somebody who has lived among them for 10 years .