Living In Two Different Places With Children

[ninjat]

Hi,

My wife and I are considering the possibility of living 50% in Thailand and 50% in Europe (we currently live in Europe, taking long trips to Thailand as often as possible).

All seems good and possible except one thing: How do we manage the education of our children if we choose to live 50/50 in two different places?

One of our children is just about to begin in school, the second one will begin in 2-3 years (age 5 and 3).

Would love to hear some ideas, recommendations - and tips from people who live 50/50 in two different places.

Thanks,

Ninjat

[WOOHOO]

I currently travel between the two. Not quite 50/50, a bit more spent here in Thailand but still go back for summers in England.

We are doing this now because we can. Our son is only 2 1/2. When he starts proper school things will have to change, and the amount of time we go back to the UK will be reduced to school holidays with an extra week or two added on maybe.

For the sake of a childs stability, we can't always live exactly how we want. I would say it's not impossible to continue as you are, but schooling and general routine and stability would suffer. I'm no expert, just making it up as I go along myself, but that's what we've decided.

[ninjat]

For the sake of a childs stability, we can't always live exactly how we want. I would say it's not impossible to continue as you are, but schooling and general routine and stability would suffer. I'm no expert, just making it up as I go along myself, but that's what we've decided.

Will it really affect the childrens stability if you live 50/50? I believe the import thing is that the parents are there, location/surroundings come a far second after the parents (and maybe a box with teddy and other favorite stuff).

[Boo]

The problem I can see with kids of school age is actually getting a school to accept them for only 50%% of the year. I know in the UK this would be problematic & in Thailand, if they are attending international schools then you would be liable for all the enrollment costs every time you came back. It would imo also affect the kids socialization.

We planned to do a 60-40 split (lesser time in UK) for the next 2 years as my son is only nearly 3 & wanted to use the chance to work in UK for several months whilst we could.

This year, after spending the last 5 months in Thailand, my son went for 4 months to thai nursery in Samui & loved it, he made friends, liked his teachers alot & really enjoyed his days there. We will head back to UK in May where he is signed up at a nursery there. I now know that this will be the last time we do this as it is just too disruptive to his life & socialization & imo, it just isn't fair once they reach an age where being with other kids is important for them.

My son asks every day where his friends from "school" are & is bored out of nursery. I dread to think what the situation will be after 4-6 months back in UK when we, yet again, take him out of nursery & place him back in a thai school where he is yet again the new boy & without friends.

We just can't do it anymore. This will be the last time for sure.

[StreetCowboy]

The problem I can see with kids of school age is actually getting a school to accept them for only 50%% of the year. I know in the UK this would be problematic & in Thailand, if they are attending international schools then you would be liable for all the enrollment costs every time you came back. It would imo also affect the kids socialization.

We planned to do a 60-40 split (lesser time in UK) for the next 2 years as my son is only nearly 3 & wanted to use the chance to work in UK for several months whilst we could.

This year, after spending the last 5 months in Thailand, my son went for 4 months to thai nursery in Samui & loved it, he made friends, liked his teachers alot & really enjoyed his days there. We will head back to UK in May where he is signed up at a nursery there. I now know that this will be the last time we do this as it is just too disruptive to his life & socialization & imo, it just isn't fair once they reach an age where being with other kids is important for them.

My son asks every day where his friends from "school" are & is bored out of nursery. I dread to think what the situation will be after 4-6 months back in UK when we, yet again, take him out of nursery & place him back in a thai school where he is yet again the new boy & without friends.

We just can't do it anymore. This will be the last time for sure.

I think it must be far harder frequently changing between "ordinary" schools than expat schools / nurseries, where there are so many newcomers.

Mixing curricula and standards of behaviour / social norms will also be troublesome, I imagine. I really don't see why you would want to do it. If you want to go and work in another country, go on your own. Lots of us do.

SC

[Boo]

If you want to go and work in another country, go on your own. Lots of us do.

A father may be able to but this mother couldn't

As said, this is the last year (already arranged) but once back & he is in pre-school full time then we will be staying put.

[WOOHOO]

If you want to go and work in another country, go on your own. Lots of us do.

SC

I know people have to do what they have to do, but in an ideal world that isn't a great solution either. A couple of times a year I go to the UK on my own for 2 weeks. I hate it, and couldn't do any longer than that away from my family. How people go away for months at a time blows my mind.

As I said. I believe the only real option is to pick a country and then spend school holidays in the other. I'm planning on maybe trying to steal a couple of weeks at the end of the summer term and maybe get 8 weeks in the uk. I can't see how missing a couple of weeks will be to much of a problem.

[Boo]

I can't see how missing a couple of weeks will be to much of a problem.

Should be ok till they reach high school then the schools tend to get a bit stricter.

We thought whilst out son was small that we would be able to do the 4months UK, rest in Thailand thing & that's why we arranged work for this summer in UK & Europe but I didn't factor in my sons needs in making the plans. The changing nursery, missing his little mates & structure that the nursery offered him. He seems to thrive in a "school" type environment & enjoys learning, something I had no way of knowing before as he only every went to a child minder in UK before. So now I know & see the effects changing too much has on him we have adapted our plans. It' life isn't it

[WOOHOO]

I can't see how missing a couple of weeks will be to much of a problem.

Should be ok till they reach high school then the schools tend to get a bit stricter.

Your probably right. I just figured though, that what with this being Thailand and the fact that at a private school you're handing over a wad of cash every term, that they might not care to much. Especially if you were showing that you were making sure the kids caught up on the work they missed.

I would be interested to hear back from the OP, to see if he has been deterred by the advice given, or weather he's going to go ahead and give it ago.

[ninjat]

I would be interested to hear back from the OP, to see if he has been deterred by the advice given, or weather he's going to go ahead and give it ago.

That's good question. I'm not surprised to hear a lot of advice against it since it surely isn't the road most families follow.

But what you all think about those people who take their children out of school for 1-2 years to travel the world? Are they also breaking up their childrens need for stability?

[WOOHOO]

That's good question. I'm not surprised to hear a lot of advice against it since it surely isn't the road most families follow.

But what you all think about those people who take their children out of school for 1-2 years to travel the world? Are they also breaking up their childrens need for stability?

I didn't know people did take their kids out of school for that long to go traveling. In the UK, I would have thought that would be against the law!

Obviously there is an argument that a child would learn far more in a year traveling, different cultures and languages etc than he would in a class room, but that would be a one off kind of thing. What you're talking about doing, is long term. Not leaving then coming back, once, but continually leaving and coming back, year in year out. I personally think a kid exposed to that wouldn't know his arse from his elbow after a while.

I hear a lot of stories about people who grew up with parents in the military, and they never seem to remember the constantly moving and making new friends kindly. I would even go as far to say, some seem a little scarred by the experience.

I just think that sometimes we can convince ourselves that something is OK, simply because it's what we want to do, when the reality is it isn't OK, and we should be doing something else, even at the cost of our own happiness or convenience.

Having said that, as you quite rightly mention. The love of two decent parents is by far the most important of things. With that, most kids turn out all right.

[StreetCowboy]

If you want to go and work in another country, go on your own. Lots of us do.

A father may be able to but this mother couldn't

As said, this is the last year (already arranged) but once back & he is in pre-school full time then we will be staying put.

Lots of the ladies I know work offshore, away from their kids; we can't all find lucrative jobs in our own countries.

Its bad enough coming down to Bangkok and leaving your kids with the grandparents or whoever...but many also travel overseas

SC

[StreetCowboy]

I would be interested to hear back from the OP, to see if he has been deterred by the advice given, or weather he's going to go ahead and give it ago.

That's good question. I'm not surprised to hear a lot of advice against it since it surely isn't the road most families follow.

But what you all think about those people who take their children out of school for 1-2 years to travel the world? Are they also breaking up their childrens need for stability?

I don't think that there is anything unstable about being a gypsy. But I don't think that people really appreciate the benefits of travel until they've learnt about a first place. They've got nothing to compare the differences and similarities.

SC

[WOOHOO]

I don't think that there is anything unstable about being a gypsy. But I don't think that people really appreciate the benefits of travel until they've learnt about a first place. They've got nothing to compare the differences and similarities.

SC

Those points are true for adults maybe, but we're talking about children. As pointed out already, the only differences and similarities a 3 year old will notice is that their friends have suddenly disappeared. If you were talking about teenagers, who could make the decision best for them, to either stay with friends or go traveling and experience new things, then that's fine. Young children need those decisions made for them.

People who have to work away from home, because quite simply that's where their work is, and as a result give their families a good secure life, are certainly not at fault. But it's a different story, if someone is making the wrong decision for their children just so they can spend more time on holiday.

[StreetCowboy]

I don't think that there is anything unstable about being a gypsy. But I don't think that people really appreciate the benefits of travel until they've learnt about a first place. They've got nothing to compare the differences and similarities.

SC

Those points are true for adults maybe, but we're talking about children. As pointed out already, the only differences and similarities a 3 year old will notice is that their friends have suddenly disappeared. If you were talking about teenagers, who could make the decision best for them, to either stay with friends or go traveling and experience new things, then that's fine. Young children need those decisions made for them.

People who have to work away from home, because quite simply that's where their work is, and as a result give their families a good secure life, are certainly not at fault. But it's a different story, if someone is making the wrong decision for their children just so they can spend more time on holiday.

I think that we are in agreement on the first point...children don't have the experience to notice that places are different from one another, nor to appreciate those differences (or similarities) - all they really perceive is the difference in their own experience, which more likely are related to travelling / being at home / around extended family etc, than any difference between countries or cultures - their culture is limited to their family pretty much, especially when travelling.

Now taking children on a round the world trip for a few years might not do them any harm; but they won't make any friends, and they won't learn anything about different countries; all they'll learn about is travelling and living out of a suitcase. They'll learn much more about the world staying in one place and forming friendships, and learning about that one place; that will give them a background to reference differences and similarities to. But then I would say that; I'm not a gypsy,

SC

[PattayaParent]

School in Europe and school holidays in Thailand.

Or the other way round.

Simple really.

[ninjat]

School in Europe and school holidays in Thailand.

Or the other way round.

Simple really.

That would give the same amount of freedom as 50/50 + the ability to choose when we want to be in each place.

[jrmaanda]

I can offer the OP an example that has worked, as I have been doing it for ten years now with my four children, now aged 6, 11, 16 and 19, and it has worked fine for them. We live September to March in Chiangmai and April to August in France. As far as I can see, one has two choices if doing this: homeschooling or boarding schools. If you choose the former, you will be heavily criticised by people who think all children should be with others their own age. Personally, I believe that is true of teenagers, but not before puberty, so my children have been taught at home by a Thai teacher (also competent in English) until aged about twelve, then sent to boarding school in England or France. I believe it has been very good for them, but then I must add that they were already being home-schooled when we started living half and half, because I believed that was better for them anyway. So starting to live equally in two countries was just an added bonus, not a reason for doing it.

Jeremy

[ninjat]

I can offer the OP an example that has worked, as I have been doing it for ten years now with my four children, now aged 6, 11, 16 and 19, and it has worked fine for them. We live September to March in Chiangmai and April to August in France. As far as I can see, one has two choices if doing this: homeschooling or boarding schools. If you choose the former, you will be heavily criticised by people who think all children should be with others their own age. Personally, I believe that is true of teenagers, but not before puberty, so my children have been taught at home by a Thai teacher (also competent in English) until aged about twelve, then sent to boarding school in England or France. I believe it has been very good for them, but then I must add that they were already being home-schooled when we started living half and half, because I believed that was better for them anyway. So starting to live equally in two countries was just an added bonus, not a reason for doing it.

Jeremy

Very interesting. A few questions:

1) What did you pay the Thai teacher? And what did you do while in France?

2) Why do you believe teenagers, but not younger children need to be with others their own age?

Thanks.

[WOOHOO]

I can offer the OP an example that has worked, as I have been doing it for ten years now with my four children, now aged 6, 11, 16 and 19, and it has worked fine for them. We live September to March in Chiangmai and April to August in France. As far as I can see, one has two choices if doing this: homeschooling or boarding schools. If you choose the former, you will be heavily criticised by people who think all children should be with others their own age. Personally, I believe that is true of teenagers, but not before puberty, so my children have been taught at home by a Thai teacher (also competent in English) until aged about twelve, then sent to boarding school in England or France. I believe it has been very good for them, but then I must add that they were already being home-schooled when we started living half and half, because I believed that was better for them anyway. So starting to live equally in two countries was just an added bonus, not a reason for doing it.

Jeremy

Where to start with that post! Firstly, I'm sure your kids are all good, well rounded people, so I won't even begin to pretend I know more than you. My son is two and a half, and I blunder through every day doing the best I can, which I'm fairly sure is good enough.

I do however have some issues. Military families come to mind. Soldiers always think they are doing well enough for their kids, but I think, in reality, they're always putting themselves first and their kids last. I don't think you'll find it to hard to find children of soldiers who will agree. Kids who wish they hadn't been pushed from pillar to post, school to school, group of friends to group of friends. I can't help but think when boarding schools are involved, the kids can't possibly be the winners. (Yes I know lots of kids love being at boarding school, and wouldn't have it any other way, but if that's all they know!!)

I know it's horses for courses, but I'm 33 and my mother would have me living with her right now if she could, and the thought of me being out of her sight when I was a kid would be abhorrent to her. I have to agree, I already feel the same way about my son.

If you can honestly say that their interests came first all the time, which I'm sure you can, then who could argue against it. Lets face it, Chiang Mai and France, that's not a bad lot, but boarding school and home tuition, not for my boy.

You may not want to answer this, but would it be accurate to assume that you are from a privileged back ground? For certain classes, boarding school is just a normal way of life, so that would be a different kettle of fish.

[jrmaanda]

I can offer the OP an example that has worked, as I have been doing it for ten years now with my four children, now aged 6, 11, 16 and 19, and it has worked fine for them. We live September to March in Chiangmai and April to August in France. As far as I can see, one has two choices if doing this: homeschooling or boarding schools. If you choose the former, you will be heavily criticised by people who think all children should be with others their own age. Personally, I believe that is true of teenagers, but not before puberty, so my children have been taught at home by a Thai teacher (also competent in English) until aged about twelve, then sent to boarding school in England or France. I believe it has been very good for them, but then I must add that they were already being home-schooled when we started living half and half, because I believed that was better for them anyway. So starting to live equally in two countries was just an added bonus, not a reason for doing it.

Jeremy

Very interesting. A few questions:

1) What did you pay the Thai teacher? And what did you do while in France?

2) Why do you believe teenagers, but not younger children need to be with others their own age?

Thanks.

1) When I was living in Thailand most of the time, 9000 baht a month. Now 600 baht per 6 1/2 hour day, including her travelling 40 km. each way. A mutually satisfactory sum for both parties, I believe. In France, we advertise working holidays for teachers willing to give some tuition in return for fine living in a nice country house. It has resulted in some extremely vauable friends as well as good teachers. We keep about three months of the six in France as just holiday.

2) It would take a long dissertation to do justice to this question, and for now I can only elaborate a tiny bit. I find that the main emotional needs of very young children are for plenty of attention from people of whose love they are absolutely assured, ie. their parents. They need to play too of course, but it does not matter if their playfellows are parents or siblings of a different age. There comes a point (and I think puberty is the trigger) when they need to begin asserting their independence, emotionally and in every way and then they find it easier and more important to relate others doing the same, ie. their own age group. Unconditional love is no longer enough, they need to go out and make themselves liked for themselves, not because they are somebody's child. These beliefs are both person experience and natural theory.

In reply to the next post. Yes, you are right, I was at boarding schools too, in fact the same ones my sons go to. I definitely wouldn't advocate boarding school just as a means of being able to live in a different country to one's children. My children were down for their schools years before I had thought of living thus, just because I believed them to be the best education/way of life on offer for teenagers.

[sara1]

Interesting reading the posts on this topic and what people do in such circumstances. I spend time both in the UK and in Thailand with my daughter. She has no problem with it. As her mother what I find is the most important thing is that she feels secure. When I am in the UK she spends lots of time with her grandparents and has her group of friends. When we are in Thailand she spends lots of time with her father and has her group of friends here as well.

I think she gets the best of both worlds and as long as I am not anxious and I am careful in what I speak around her she is secure in where we live.

As for schools, she goes to a private school in Thailand, it is a small school and runs of the UK curiculum so she is at the same level as she would be back in the UK. She also has the UK holidays so it fits in well with travel. We go back to the UK in July and stay there until Christmas, so my daughter does 1 term in the UK. It is a private school and she goes there every time back.

I don't see a problem and my daughter is happy and health and very bright.

[ninjat]

Interesting reading the posts on this topic and what people do in such circumstances. I spend time both in the UK and in Thailand with my daughter. She has no problem with it. As her mother what I find is the most important thing is that she feels secure. When I am in the UK she spends lots of time with her grandparents and has her group of friends. When we are in Thailand she spends lots of time with her father and has her group of friends here as well.

I think she gets the best of both worlds and as long as I am not anxious and I am careful in what I speak around her she is secure in where we live.

As for schools, she goes to a private school in Thailand, it is a small school and runs of the UK curiculum so she is at the same level as she would be back in the UK. She also has the UK holidays so it fits in well with travel. We go back to the UK in July and stay there until Christmas, so my daughter does 1 term in the UK. It is a private school and she goes there every time back.

I don't see a problem and my daughter is happy and health and very bright.

How much does all the schooling cost you? And can you avoid paying for both terms in both UK and Thailand?

[g00dgirl]

I only saw this thread now. I am considering the same, splitting time about 50/50%

so that

- my son truly knows both cultures well and get the best from both (customs, flora, fauna, weather, food)

- becomes a perfect native speaker of both languages

- feels home in both countries

- he can be unbiased to decide what he likes better

- can spend time with his family in Thailand and his family in Europe and know them both

some disadvantages

- travel costs

- missing family and friends in the other country sometimes

- not learning about all the seasons of a full year in one country

Those could be minimized by spending a full year here and there sometimes, not going back and forth too frequently. Staying in contact with family in the other country.

School is not a worry for me at all, I thought much about it until I discovered unschooling.

I agree that the most important thing is that the child can be with the parents. Parents have to be happy aswell, if one parent suffers in one country it should not be ignored.

If a child is spending a lot of time in child care institutions from a young age, they are less attached to their parents and a bit more attached to the staff and children there, so travelling will affect their stability more. If they are used to being with their parents most of the time, and the parents travel with the child, it would be less of an issue or no issue at all. If a child is spending more time in child care, with nanny, grandparents, other people than those who will be travelling with him or her, then it might be best to stay in one place.

In my opinion if you are flexible in regards to work and finances and like to spend time in both countries (or travel the world or whatever), give your child the best of both when he is very young.

Once the children are old enough to explain that they are happier in one place or the other, I would also make sure to respect their wishes and make it possible for them to be where they prefer.