Chiang Mai Fun, please read the news before accusing someone of lying. Two men, currently leaders at the Bangkok Red shirt demonstration have been charged and found guilty of murder along with three others. The murder of an old man whose son was a well known Yellow Shirt leader.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-Shirts-J...-M-t354516.html

And a note, lets drop the name calling and inflammatory posting.

Chiang Mai 51 group attacked protesting corn farmers as they wouldnt join the red movment. 51 then actually attacked rival red groups meeting at a stadium who were a tad critical of their violent nature. They then threatened to attack an HIV parade saying that Lanna culture did not tolerate gays. The parade had to be cancelled. All of this is well documented as is the murder of a radio station owners father. Nobody would call 51 and their leaders peaceful and their poltics are easily seen as facist and reactionary.

There was a while back a link posted here to an interview with one of 51's leaders. It was quite remakable

By the way Im not saying all red groups are like this or violent or facists but 51 have never been disowned by the umbrella group and being the main red group from CM need to be recognised for what they are. There is actually a bit of difference between most Northern red groups and most Isaan ones in ideology. A study of the gropups who make up the reds would be interesting academically especially as it is almost unique in that it allies groups that are extreme right to extreme left with everything in between.

I don't even know who Oak is... sorry... I am not interested in Thaksin and hope he never returns here and I have no idea about his family

Sympathising / supporting the red shirts means you are sympathising / supporting the movement. The movement's aim, if not the aim of all its followers, is to assist Thaksin in white-washing him of crimes and allowing him to return without punishment. If you are going to go on sympathising / supporting the reds, you really should be interested in Thaksin because he is fundamental to it all.

Soldiers' loyalty a crucial issue in Thailand standoff

Presence of 'watermelon soldiers' – wearing green on the outside, but red in their hearts – could affect outcome of anti-government clash

Since a failed military crackdown earlier this month that left 24 people dead, including five soldiers, rumors have swirled about divisions within the military ranks. Some believe the Red Shirts got help from within the military before and during the April 10 clash, and there have been unsubstantiated reports of soldiers firing on soldiers amid the chaos of that night.

There are also suspicions that someone in the police tipped Red Shirt leaders off ahead of a bungled arrest attempt at a Bangkok hotel last week that saw one of the leaders escape in Hollywood style by using an electrical cord to rappel down from his third-floor window.

The presence of "watermelon soldiers" – wearing green on the outside, but red in their hearts – in the ranks of the Thai military is unsurprising, given that many of the rank-and-file are drawn from poorer, rural areas of the country, the same villages that are the heartland of the Red Shirt movement. An estimated 40 per cent of the army's 190,000 troops are conscripts.

While affluent and well-educated Bangkok youths often find a way to avoid being drafted, young men from the countryside usually have little choice but to do their two years of mandatory service. They serve under an officer corps that is very much of the upper crust in Thailand, creating an often class-based chain-of-command in the army that is similar to the unofficial caste system in wider Thai society that Red leaders say they are trying to overturn.

There are also believed to be divisions within the officer ranks, with some believed to maintain ties to the exiled former prime minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, who graduated from an elite military school and allegedly cemented loyalties by promoting his old classmates before he was deposed in a 2006 military coup.

"When we talk about the military and the police, unquestionably there is a question of disunity among them," said Surat Horachaikul, a professor of political science at Chulalongkorn University in Bangkok. "There is a faction protecting and working with the Reds. There is a problem when your own army is working against you."

One army figure who has openly joined the Red Shirts is Major General Khattiya Sawasdipol, who was suspended from the military after he declared his support for the Red Shirts and Mr. Thaksin. Gen. Khattiya now struts among the tents and bedrolls of the Red Shirt camp in military fatigues with a canteen and knife dangling from his belt. He spends much of his time drawing up plans to defend the protest camp, which was established among the luxury malls and high-end hotels of Bangkok's main shopping district in large part to make it difficult for the army to move in.

"Everyone in the lower ranks of the army is 100-per-cent Red. The only ones who are personally with the government are the commanders," he said. But Gen. Khattiya nonetheless believes the rank-and-file will do their duty and crack down on the protesters if such an order does come.

Gen. Khattiya said that the ones who shot back at the army during the fighting on April 10 were members of a black-shirted third force. In an interview, he grinningly claimed no knowledge of who these fighters were, before describing in depth the kinds of weapons they possess and the tactics they used to repel the army assault. "If I said it was me, I would go to jail," he said before adding boastfully: "Their tactics were better than the government's."

Panitan Wattanayagorn, acting spokesman for Mr. Abhisit's government, dismissed concerns about the loyalty of serving soldiers, but said the government was concerned about "terrorist" elements within the otherwise Red Shirt demonstrators who were willing to use violence to advance their cause.

"The Department of Special Investigation has evidence about this radical military wing that has been trained and organized by paramilitary troops, created by ex-officers [now] serving political organizations," Mr. Panitan said in an interview at the government's crisis headquarters inside the north Bangkok barracks of the 11th Infantry Division. "What we've seen is a radical element [that fought] using grenade launchers, machine guns and bombs... the attack was very sophisticated, to a level that was quite alarming."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/...article1540030/

So the Thai army has 190,000 troops.

Bangkok is a city of at least 10 million people.

The reds who have come in number at least a few hundred thousand.

Certainly not all of the 190,000 are available to go into Bangkok. Thailand must keep troops on the borders with hostile Cambodia and Myanmar.

Then you have the problem of troops and their loyalty.

Thai troops from Issan are useless at best against their brothers who wear red and likely a danger to turn on the government should they get the opportunity.

Read about areas of the NE and North and one can see that Bangkok has lost almost total control in the red areas.

It is humorous the people who think this is a simple paid uprising. It is not,

It is very possibly the start of a major fight among people in Thailand for their future.

Likely the current government will fall and also it is possible the regime will fall as well.

Chiang Mai Fun, please read the news before accusing someone of lying. Two men, currently leaders at the Bangkok Red shirt demonstration have been charged and found guilty of murder along with three others. The murder of an old man whose son was a well known Yellow Shirt leader.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-Shirts-J...-M-t354516.html

And a note, lets drop the name calling and inflammatory posting.

Chiang Mai 51 group attacked protesting corn farmers as they wouldnt join the red movment. 51 then actually attacked rival red groups meeting at a stadium who were a tad critical of their violent nature. They then threatened to attack an HIV parade saying that Lanna culture did not tolerate gays. The parade had to be cancelled. All of this is well documented as is the murder of a radio station owners father. Nobody would call 51 and their leaders peaceful and their poltics are easily seen as facist and reactionary.

There was a while back a link posted here to an interview with one of 51's leaders. It was quite remakable

By the way Im not saying all red groups are like this or violent or facists but 51 have never been disowned by the umbrella group and being the main red group from CM need to be recognised for what they are. There is actually a bit of difference between most Northern red groups and most Isaan ones in ideology. A study of the gropups who make up the reds would be interesting academically especially as it is almost unique in that it allies groups that are extreme right to extreme left with everything in between.

Your post gave the impression that all reds up here go around killing and beating up farmers and gays - maybe you could have balanced it a little? for the record (for the umpteenth time) I am AGAINST violence - by red, yellow or multi-coloured persons. But I am also against painting broad pictures of reds (or yellows) going around killing and beating people - there maybe an odd isolated incident (which is appalling of course) but it doesn't happen up here very much - I live here - as for corn farmers being attacked please remember that the news up here is pretty unreliable and unbalanced.

Red have said ' My way or the highway.'

They will shortly be on a roadtrip.

Some back home,

others to a new less aesthetic home with bars.

And sadly a few will never see home again.

Red have said ' My way or the highway.'

They will shortly be on a roadtrip.

Some back home,

others to a new less aesthetic home with bars.

And sadly a few will never see home again.

I will grant you they have missed their 'window' - and it may well drift - but it isn't over (unfortunately).

Thaksin and his Redshirts are parliamentarians only if there isn't ever any effective opposition in a parliament and only if they have absolute control of a parliament.

The Yellows acted by extra-parliamentary means to remove a particular government. The Reds always have acted in extra-parliamentary ways to seize control of the state and violently to transform it into a subsidiary of Thaksin Family Enterprises Inc.

To paraphrase, Thaksin and his Redshirt lieutenants can fool some of the people all of the time, but they can't fool all of the people even some of the time.

par·lia·ment –noun

1.(usually initial capital letter) the legislature of Great Britain,

historically the assembly of the three estates, now composed of Lords Spiritual and Lords Temporal,

forming together the House of Lords, and representatives of the counties, cities, boroughs,

and universities, forming the House of Commons.

2. (usually initial capital letter) the legislature of certain British colonies and possessions.

3. a legislative body in any of various other countries.

4. French History. any of several high courts of justice in France before 1789.

5. a meeting or assembly for conference on public or national affairs.

6. Cards. fan-tan (def. 1).

par·lia·men·tar·i·an –noun

1. a person who is expert in the formal rules and procedures of deliberative assemblies and other formal organizations.

2. (sometimes initial capital letter) British. a member of Parliament.

3. (initial capital letter) a partisan of the British Parliament in opposition to Charles I

Legal Definition

1 : an expert in the rules and usages of a parliament or other deliberative assembly;

specifically often cap : an officer of a legislative body acting as adviser to the presiding officer on matters of procedure

NOTE: The parliamentarian of the U.S. House of Representatives is appointed by the Speaker of the House.

The Secretary of the Senate appoints the Senate's parliamentarian with approval of the majority leader.

2 : a member of a parliament

Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

The reds possess one parliamentarian in name only Jatuporn.

But his whole parliamentary career seems to have abused parliamentary procedures.

And his abjuring of proper ethics in 'deliberative assemblies' is legendary.

Rules are good if he wins and to be ignored if he doesn't like them. Such a parliamentarian.

And he is a disestablishmentarian, of the highest order. (not exclusively about church/state)

Soldiers' loyalty a crucial issue in Thailand standoff

Presence of 'watermelon soldiers' – wearing green on the outside, but red in their hearts – could affect outcome of anti-government clash

[see above article]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/...article1540030/

General Grant, you have left off the ending of the article............

Rhetoric is ratcheting up, but on the front line many are quietly hoping that family and village ties between soldiers and protesters will help the two sides avoid further bloodshed. "My nephew called and told me not to come down here. He's a Red (supporter) too, but he's a soldier and he has to do what they tell him to do," said Tana Usawong, a 50-year-old protester from north Thailand who has stayed in regular contact since the protest began with his 24-year-old nephew in the army.

"There are a lot of watermelon soldiers. If the government was smart, they would put those soldiers in front, because the people know them and would never hurt them."

Havent commented on all this before but now I have been to BKK I will.

Went in yesterday and in my travels by bus, sky train and taxi saw no evidence of any trouble except half a dozen police riot shields stacked up at Victory Monument.

Seems that only a very small portion of the population of the city (10 Mill or so )is actually affected the others are all getting on with their business as usual.

No they arent holding a country or even a city to ransom as some seem to suggest only making as much trouble as is possible for such a small proportion of the population of the city and an even smaller proportion of the country.

Unfortunatly contarary to the comments of the red supporters on this forum it is the little people who will be getting worst hit by these red shirt clowns, the street vendor who cant make his few baht each day, the hotel and mall employees on a small wage and the others who have nothing to fall back on. The owners of the big businesses will lose sure but they will survive possibly even have insurance.

Also noted that very few people were waring red, counted only 6, could that be that most people dont want to be associated with the red rabble?

I can say, honestly (no games, no ploy), I have never heard of it - he makes it sound like it's a daily event

Do you really live in Chiang Mai? I can't help wondering. Yesterday i read one of your posts when you said that you had never heard about what Oak (Thaksin's son) had said in a local nightclub. It was such big news at the time, i find it amazing that you managed to miss it.

Last time I looked out of my window it was Chiang Mai! I don't even know who Oak is... sorry... I am not interested in Thaksin and hope he never returns here and I have no idea about his family - the newspapers here are pretty low grade - well there is only one (Chiang Mai News) but I don't read it as it's really poor reporting so maybe I missed it. I wish we had a decent paper here - we have a great magazine (CityLife). But I know many people here and if there were regular 'killings' and 'beatings' I would have heard - sorry but I don't buy it - maybe an isolated incident but to say 'reds kill and beat up farmers (I mean really? FARMERS?) and gays' is ridiculous.

When did you move there? It seems you've missed an awful lot.

But you clearly believe in your cause so rock on.

Chiang Mai Fun, please read the news before accusing someone of lying. Two men, currently leaders at the Bangkok Red shirt demonstration have been charged and found guilty of murder along with three others. The murder of an old man whose son was a well known Yellow Shirt leader.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-Shirts-J...-M-t354516.html

And a note, lets drop the name calling and inflammatory posting.

Chiang Mai 51 group attacked protesting corn farmers as they wouldnt join the red movment. 51 then actually attacked rival red groups meeting at a stadium who were a tad critical of their violent nature. They then threatened to attack an HIV parade saying that Lanna culture did not tolerate gays. The parade had to be cancelled. All of this is well documented as is the murder of a radio station owners father. Nobody would call 51 and their leaders peaceful and their poltics are easily seen as facist and reactionary.

There was a while back a link posted here to an interview with one of 51's leaders. It was quite remakable

By the way Im not saying all red groups are like this or violent or facists but 51 have never been disowned by the umbrella group and being the main red group from CM need to be recognised for what they are. There is actually a bit of difference between most Northern red groups and most Isaan ones in ideology. A study of the gropups who make up the reds would be interesting academically especially as it is almost unique in that it allies groups that are extreme right to extreme left with everything in between.

Your post gave the impression that all reds up here go around killing and beating up farmers and gays - maybe you could have balanced it a little? for the record (for the umpteenth time) I am AGAINST violence - by red, yellow or multi-coloured persons. But I am also against painting broad pictures of reds (or yellows) going around killing and beating people - there maybe an odd isolated incident (which is appalling of course) but it doesn't happen up here very much - I live here - as for corn farmers being attacked please remember that the news up here is pretty unreliable and unbalanced.

CMF in your last paragraph you are leaving out a CRUCIAL apostrophy

The reds in CM are well known for killing poeple, beating up farmers and gays.

It changes the meaning substantially. It is also believed other deaths are attributable, but as yet unproven.

We know that a Red stage mate has been CONVICTED of murder, for the radio station attack.

It took a LONG time to do this is long before the airport or even Somchai's PMship.

I have 1 or 2 gay acquaintances in Chaing mai and they avoid redshirts like they are Typhoid Mary's.

Known to be ultra violent, like a UK skinhead at midnight on a Saturday.

And the beating of farmers is also on public record.

As SBK noted, research before commenting blithely.

Presidenté Thaksin Of Lanna-Issarn.

Should give his ego a lift.

Bordered by a uncooperative Thailand, moribund Myanmar, communist Laos and China...

Well we know which TWO neighbors will have the money and commerce sewn up.

And limited access to energy rights... t'would be a sad little place I suspect.

Red have said ' My way or the highway.'

They will shortly be on a roadtrip.

Some back home,

others to a new less aesthetic home with bars.

And sadly a few will never see home again.

Yes, sadly I think you may be correct here. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but in due course I am sure someone in the Red camp will realise there was probably a better way.

Chiang Mai Fun, please read the news before accusing someone of lying. Two men, currently leaders at the Bangkok Red shirt demonstration have been charged and found guilty of murder along with three others. The murder of an old man whose son was a well known Yellow Shirt leader.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-Shirts-J...-M-t354516.html

And a note, lets drop the name calling and inflammatory posting.

Chiang Mai 51 group attacked protesting corn farmers as they wouldnt join the red movment. 51 then actually attacked rival red groups meeting at a stadium who were a tad critical of their violent nature. They then threatened to attack an HIV parade saying that Lanna culture did not tolerate gays. The parade had to be cancelled. All of this is well documented as is the murder of a radio station owners father. Nobody would call 51 and their leaders peaceful and their poltics are easily seen as facist and reactionary.

There was a while back a link posted here to an interview with one of 51's leaders. It was quite remakable

By the way Im not saying all red groups are like this or violent or facists but 51 have never been disowned by the umbrella group and being the main red group from CM need to be recognised for what they are. There is actually a bit of difference between most Northern red groups and most Isaan ones in ideology. A study of the gropups who make up the reds would be interesting academically especially as it is almost unique in that it allies groups that are extreme right to extreme left with everything in between.

Your post gave the impression that all reds up here go around killing and beating up farmers and gays - maybe you could have balanced it a little? for the record (for the umpteenth time) I am AGAINST violence - by red, yellow or multi-coloured persons. But I am also against painting broad pictures of reds (or yellows) going around killing and beating people - there maybe an odd isolated incident (which is appalling of course) but it doesn't happen up here very much - I live here - as for corn farmers being attacked please remember that the news up here is pretty unreliable and unbalanced.

CMF in your last paragraph you are leaving out a CRUCIAL apostrophy

The reds in CM are well known for killing poeple, beating up farmers and gays.

It changes the meaning substantially. It is also believed other deaths are attributable, but as yet unproven.

We know that a Red stage mate has been CONVICTED of murder, for the radio station attack.

It took a LONG time to do this is long before the airport or even Somchai's PMship.

I have 1 or 2 gay acquaintances in Chaing mai and they avoid redshirts like they are Typhoid Mary's.

Known to be ultra violent, like a UK skinhead at midnight on a Saturday.

And the beating of farmers is also on public record.

As SBK noted, research before commenting blithely.

Sorry I disagree - read the post I was responding to - and it's a comma by the way. There is no mad red army rushing around Chiang Mai killing people - beating up farmers (corn or otherwise) or gays - there were some very isolated instances awhile back that were overplayed by the media. I have had private correspondance with SBK which is not your concern to clear this up - you don't need to quote him to earn your brownie points.

I'm sitting here with Thai's who have lived here all their life and they no idea where on earth these stories come from - but thanks for the lecture - if they are so well know - we don't know them and we live here! yellow propaganda.

Red have said ' My way or the highway.'

They will shortly be on a roadtrip.

Some back home,

others to a new less aesthetic home with bars.

And sadly a few will never see home again.

Yes, sadly I think you may be correct here. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but in due course I am sure someone in the Red camp will realise there was probably a better way.

I hope that you are correct Neverdie, but sadly I doubt it. The Reds are digging it and the talk of 'acid bombs' and other home made weapons tells me that they are up for a fight.

Cheers, Rick

You haven't been in Thailand all that long CMF

The violence and threats of violence by Rak Chiang Mai 51 are WELL known to all that live in Chiang Mai. The murder, the intimidation, the violence .... everyone knows about this and it hasn't gotten any better.

Red have said ' My way or the highway.'

They will shortly be on a roadtrip.

Some back home,

others to a new less aesthetic home with bars.

And sadly a few will never see home again.

Yes, sadly I think you may be correct here. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but in due course I am sure someone in the Red camp will realise there was probably a better way.

I hope that you are correct Neverdie, but sadly I doubt it. The Reds are digging it and the talk of 'acid bombs' and other home made weapons tells me that they are up for a fight.

Cheers, Rick

Rick, I think you have misunderstood what I was trying to say (most likely my fault due to what i wrote). But I feel things have deteriorated and seem to be rapidly going down hill. Sadly, more violence may follow and my reference to hindsight was, that in a few days, weeks, months or years time, someone in the red camp will examine their course of action and realise that they didnt chose the best options for the desired outcome.

for me, not being red, yellow, pink or any other colour for that matter, I simply see a nation falling apart at the seams and of course there has to be a better way for the greater good of Thailand.

Red have said ' My way or the highway.'

They will shortly be on a roadtrip.

Some back home,

others to a new less aesthetic home with bars.

And sadly a few will never see home again.

Yes, sadly I think you may be correct here. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but in due course I am sure someone in the Red camp will realise there was probably a better way.

I hope that you are correct Neverdie, but sadly I doubt it. The Reds are digging it and the talk of 'acid bombs' and other home made weapons tells me that they are up for a fight.

Cheers, Rick

Rick, I think you have misunderstood what I was trying to say (most likely my fault due to what i wrote). But I feel things have deteriorated and seem to be rapidly going down hill. Sadly, more violence may follow and my reference to hindsight was, that in a few days, weeks, months or years time, someone in the red camp will examine their course of action and realise that they didnt chose the best options for the desired outcome.

for me, not being red, yellow, pink or any other colour for that matter, I simply see a nation falling apart at the seams and of course there has to be a better way for the greater good of Thailand.

Thanks understood now Neverdie. Yes hindsight is a marvellous thing and only time will tell. With all those factions in one area it will only take a small incident to escalate things out of control. I hope that I am wrong because many people well get hurt or worse.

Cheers, Rick

Your post gave the impression that all reds up here go around killing and beating up farmers and gays - maybe you could have balanced it a little? for the record (for the umpteenth time) I am AGAINST violence - by red, yellow or multi-coloured persons. But I am also against painting broad pictures of reds (or yellows) going around killing and beating people - there maybe an odd isolated incident (which is appalling of course) but it doesn't happen up here very much - I live here - as for corn farmers being attacked please remember that the news up here is pretty unreliable and unbalanced.

CMF in your last paragraph you are leaving out a CRUCIAL apostrophy

The reds in CM are well known for killing poeple, beating up farmers and gays.

It changes the meaning substantially. It is also believed other deaths are attributable, but as yet unproven.

We know that a Red stage mate has been CONVICTED of murder, for the radio station attack.

It took a LONG time to do this is long before the airport or even Somchai's PMship.

I have 1 or 2 gay acquaintances in Chaing mai and they avoid redshirts like they are Typhoid Mary's.

Known to be ultra violent, like a UK skinhead at midnight on a Saturday.

And the beating of farmers is also on public record.

As SBK noted, research before commenting blithely.

Sorry I disagree - read the post I was responding to - and it's a comma by the way. There is no mad red army rushing around Chiang Mai killing people - beating up farmers (corn or otherwise) or gays - there were some very isolated instances awhile back that were overplayed by the media. I have had private correspondance with SBK which is not your concern to clear this up - you don't need to quote him to earn your brownie points.

I'm sitting here with Thai's who have lived here all their life and they no idea where on earth these stories come from - but thanks for the lecture - if they are so well know - we don't know them and we live here! yellow propaganda.

I read the post and you do NOT use the appropriate 'comma', which was used by Hammered,

and your PUNCTUATION-deficient version significantly changes the meaning of the accusation you make.

And yes CM51 has hundreds of zealot members, and resembles a marching army in many ways,

other than discipline and such. Or simply an armed FORCE, bent on getting it's way.

Lets not forget invading CM University to shut down free speech and assaulting a provost.

and threatening to blow up the PM who was coming to talk about increased funding for CM projects.

And Ms. SBK is not the issue. But I SECONDed HER comment.

Your post gave the impression that all reds up here go around killing and beating up farmers and gays - maybe you could have balanced it a little? for the record (for the umpteenth time) I am AGAINST violence - by red, yellow or multi-coloured persons. But I am also against painting broad pictures of reds (or yellows) going around killing and beating people - there maybe an odd isolated incident (which is appalling of course) but it doesn't happen up here very much - I live here - as for corn farmers being attacked please remember that the news up here is pretty unreliable and unbalanced.

CMF in your last paragraph you are leaving out a CRUCIAL apostrophy

The reds in CM are well known for killing poeple, beating up farmers and gays.

It changes the meaning substantially. It is also believed other deaths are attributable, but as yet unproven.

We know that a Red stage mate has been CONVICTED of murder, for the radio station attack.

It took a LONG time to do this is long before the airport or even Somchai's PMship.

I have 1 or 2 gay acquaintances in Chaing mai and they avoid redshirts like they are Typhoid Mary's.

Known to be ultra violent, like a UK skinhead at midnight on a Saturday.

And the beating of farmers is also on public record.

As SBK noted, research before commenting blithely.

Sorry I disagree - read the post I was responding to - and it's a comma by the way. There is no mad red army rushing around Chiang Mai killing people - beating up farmers (corn or otherwise) or gays - there were some very isolated instances awhile back that were overplayed by the media. I have had private correspondance with SBK which is not your concern to clear this up - you don't need to quote him to earn your brownie points.

I'm sitting here with Thai's who have lived here all their life and they no idea where on earth these stories come from - but thanks for the lecture - if they are so well know - we don't know them and we live here! yellow propaganda.

I read the post and you do NOT use the appropriate 'comma', which was used by Hammered,

and your PUNCTUATION-deficient version significantly changes the meaning of the accusation you make.

And yes CM51 has hundreds of zealot members, and resembles a marching army in many ways,

other than discipline and such. Or simply an armed FORCE, bent on getting it's way.

Lets not forget invading CM University to shut down free speech and assaulting a provost.

and threatening to blow up the PM who was coming to talk about increased funding for CM projects.

And Ms. SBK is not the issue. But I SECONDed HER comment.

nonsense - you exagerate as usual - there have bene some very isolated incidents of madness which you extrapolate inot some living nightmare - sorry your yellow propaganda isn't going to work - 'invading' CMU - stop all the exagerated rhetoric it's nonsense - name your source.

I hope that you are correct Neverdie, but sadly I doubt it. The Reds are digging it and the talk of 'acid bombs' and other home made weapons tells me that they are up for a fight.

Cheers, Rick

Rick, I think you have misunderstood what I was trying to say (most likely my fault due to what i wrote). But I feel things have deteriorated and seem to be rapidly going down hill. Sadly, more violence may follow and my reference to hindsight was, that in a few days, weeks, months or years time, someone in the red camp will examine their course of action and realise that they didnt chose the best options for the desired outcome.

for me, not being red, yellow, pink or any other colour for that matter, I simply see a nation falling apart at the seams and of course there has to be a better way for the greater good of Thailand.

Thanks understood now Neverdie. Yes hindsight is a marvellous thing and only time will tell. With all those factions in one area it will only take a small incident to escalate things out of control. I hope that I am wrong because many people well get hurt or worse.

Cheers, Rick

Hindsight is mostly 20/20, while foresight is so often tunnel vision.

Chiang Mai Fun, please read the news before accusing someone of lying. Two men, currently leaders at the Bangkok Red shirt demonstration have been charged and found guilty of murder along with three others. The murder of an old man whose son was a well known Yellow Shirt leader.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-Shirts-J...-M-t354516.html

And a note, lets drop the name calling and inflammatory posting.

Chiang Mai 51 group attacked protesting corn farmers as they wouldnt join the red movment. 51 then actually attacked rival red groups meeting at a stadium who were a tad critical of their violent nature. They then threatened to attack an HIV parade saying that Lanna culture did not tolerate gays. The parade had to be cancelled. All of this is well documented as is the murder of a radio station owners father. Nobody would call 51 and their leaders peaceful and their poltics are easily seen as facist and reactionary.

There was a while back a link posted here to an interview with one of 51's leaders. It was quite remakable

By the way Im not saying all red groups are like this or violent or facists but 51 have never been disowned by the umbrella group and being the main red group from CM need to be recognised for what they are. There is actually a bit of difference between most Northern red groups and most Isaan ones in ideology. A study of the gropups who make up the reds would be interesting academically especially as it is almost unique in that it allies groups that are extreme right to extreme left with everything in between.

Your post gave the impression that all reds up here go around killing and beating up farmers and gays - maybe you could have balanced it a little? for the record (for the umpteenth time) I am AGAINST violence - by red, yellow or multi-coloured persons. But I am also against painting broad pictures of reds (or yellows) going around killing and beating people - there maybe an odd isolated incident (which is appalling of course) but it doesn't happen up here very much - I live here - as for corn farmers being attacked please remember that the news up here is pretty unreliable and unbalanced.

The corn farmer incident was well covered by media and on TV. Even other reds criticsed the group for it. As I said I am not claiming all reds are violent but this paritcular group most certainly are I am sure we can agree that this violent group should be condemned based on their history. There was also the assault a few years ago on Chuan at a Democrat party meeting in CM which was widely covered too.

Persoanlly I would like to see the red umbrella group expel such violent and in this case facist groups but to date they havent done this whihc serves to undermine ttheir claims to be totally peaceful. By the way if you discuss this with red sympathisers particularly those of a left ideological nature, you will find a fair few in agreement with my sentiment although whether anyone in CM would agree I dont know.

Soldiers' loyalty a crucial issue in Thailand standoff

Presence of 'watermelon soldiers' – wearing green on the outside, but red in their hearts – could affect outcome of anti-government clash

[see above article]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/...article1540030/

General Grant, you have left off the ending of the article............

Rhetoric is ratcheting up, but on the front line many are quietly hoping that family and village ties between soldiers and protesters will help the two sides avoid further bloodshed. "My nephew called and told me not to come down here. He's a Red (supporter) too, but he's a soldier and he has to do what they tell him to do," said Tana Usawong, a 50-year-old protester from north Thailand who has stayed in regular contact since the protest began with his 24-year-old nephew in the army.

"There are a lot of watermelon soldiers. If the government was smart, they would put those soldiers in front, because the people know them and would never hurt them."

Grant vs Lee 150 years later disputing in another civil war.

Who COULD make this stuff up?

Chiang Mai Fun, please read the news before accusing someone of lying. Two men, currently leaders at the Bangkok Red shirt demonstration have been charged and found guilty of murder along with three others. The murder of an old man whose son was a well known Yellow Shirt leader.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-Shirts-J...-M-t354516.html

And a note, lets drop the name calling and inflammatory posting.

Chiang Mai 51 group attacked protesting corn farmers as they wouldnt join the red movment. 51 then actually attacked rival red groups meeting at a stadium who were a tad critical of their violent nature. They then threatened to attack an HIV parade saying that Lanna culture did not tolerate gays. The parade had to be cancelled. All of this is well documented as is the murder of a radio station owners father. Nobody would call 51 and their leaders peaceful and their poltics are easily seen as facist and reactionary.

There was a while back a link posted here to an interview with one of 51's leaders. It was quite remakable

By the way Im not saying all red groups are like this or violent or facists but 51 have never been disowned by the umbrella group and being the main red group from CM need to be recognised for what they are. There is actually a bit of difference between most Northern red groups and most Isaan ones in ideology. A study of the gropups who make up the reds would be interesting academically especially as it is almost unique in that it allies groups that are extreme right to extreme left with everything in between.

Your post gave the impression that all reds up here go around killing and beating up farmers and gays - maybe you could have balanced it a little? for the record (for the umpteenth time) I am AGAINST violence - by red, yellow or multi-coloured persons. But I am also against painting broad pictures of reds (or yellows) going around killing and beating people - there maybe an odd isolated incident (which is appalling of course) but it doesn't happen up here very much - I live here - as for corn farmers being attacked please remember that the news up here is pretty unreliable and unbalanced.

The corn farmer incident was well covered by media and on TV. Even other reds criticsed the group for it. As I said I am not claiming all reds are violent but this paritcular group most certainly are I am sure we can agree that this violent group should be condemned based on their history. There was also the assault a few years ago on Chuan at a Democrat party meeting in CM which was widely covered too.

Persoanlly I would like to see the red umbrella group expel such violent and in this case facist groups but to date they havent done this whihc serves to undermine ttheir claims to be totally peaceful. By the way if you discuss this with red sympathisers particularly those of a left ideological nature, you will find a fair few in agreement with my sentiment although whether anyone in CM would agree I dont know.

There is no question I utterly condemn 51 - but please correct the impression (which Animatic and other yellows sieze on and inflate) that Chiang Mai is awash with reds beating people up - if the incident was 'a few years ago' I think that's where it should stay. No one wants violence - and there is very little here in our haven of Chiang Mai (thank goodness).

For the record (again) I am not a 'red' although I sympathise for their call for an election.

I hope that you are correct Neverdie, but sadly I doubt it. The Reds are digging it and the talk of 'acid bombs' and other home made weapons tells me that they are up for a fight.

Cheers, Rick

Rick, I think you have misunderstood what I was trying to say (most likely my fault due to what i wrote). But I feel things have deteriorated and seem to be rapidly going down hill. Sadly, more violence may follow and my reference to hindsight was, that in a few days, weeks, months or years time, someone in the red camp will examine their course of action and realise that they didnt chose the best options for the desired outcome.

for me, not being red, yellow, pink or any other colour for that matter, I simply see a nation falling apart at the seams and of course there has to be a better way for the greater good of Thailand.

Thanks understood now Neverdie. Yes hindsight is a marvellous thing and only time will tell. With all those factions in one area it will only take a small incident to escalate things out of control. I hope that I am wrong because many people well get hurt or worse.

Cheers, Rick

Hindsight is mostly 20/20, while foresight is so often tunnel vision.

Very true Animatic. I still can't get over the red shirt leaders putting the lives of women and children in danger to achieve their personal goals. I am still of the opinion that this is not about democracy, but all about Thaksin.

Cheers, Rick

there have bene some very isolated incidents of madness which you extrapolate inot some living nightmare -

For the people on the receiving end of this hatred, i dare say it was a living nightmare.

You are right about the incidents being isolated, but it doesn't change the fact that they were commited by red shirts and should have been condemned out of hand by red shirt leaders, if they sincerely wish to claim the actions of this group have no connection with them. They haven't.

As per the topic, the Red Shirts would definitely "Intensify Pressure" if a few thousand of them managed to inadvertently asphyxiate themselves:

An anti-government protester wears a plastic bag over his head to prepare for the possibility of tear gas on Tuesday, April 20, 2010 in Bangkok, Thailand.

Yahoo News Service

^^^ I don't know whether to laugh or cry.....is someone passing these out?

Don't forget rubber... one of my Thai pals is pro Thaksin mainly because he apparently managed to form a rubber cartel that dictated the world rubber price... off the top of my head, my pal said something like:

Thaksin had the rubber price up to (eg: 80 baht)

now it is 10 baht.

I bet Thaksin was rather good at these sort of things, but I just dont know.

Something else they are doing today is intensifying pressure by shocking levels of actually provoking armed soldiers with their shenanigans. It doesn't get much more provocative than this:

A smaller number of supporters of ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra remained in the business district, throwing firecrackers at times to taunt troops, many armed with M-16 assault rifles.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/SGE63K00J.htm